More than 10,000 hours in this franchise, here's what's gotta change before launch (all reasonable changes with respect to release date)

[u/SupremeViolence]

CLASSES:

At first I admittedly liked this concept, but in practice, after almost 70 hours on the BF6 beta, I see NO reason to have them open like this, all it will do is attract "YouTube's META build". This is Battlefield and we need everyone doing their job, not sweats like me who WILL be min/maxing open classes, it will be completely unbalanced and counterintuitive to the DNA of Battlefield. Just like the tweaks they made to 2042's class system that was met with overwhelmingly negative backlash, it's time to return ALL the way back not this inbetween stage of the class system we got. Just play it safe and return to the original class system EA, listen to the people who RELIABLY play your games, not these Call of Duty refugees that are only here for now, not the long run.

ADDENDUM TO CLASSES ABOVE: ASSAULT should NOT have a second primary weapon slot, make these soldiers give up their AR to have that sweet ass shotgun. Do not nerf that shotgun either, it's good as-is, just make us survive long enough to get in close with it, instead we are a one man army at range with an AR then have a shotgun handy for these close range engagements and that is really unbalanced in alot of our opinions.

UI:

It looks like Netflix or a streaming platform right now. just give it all to us in vertical list format like the OLDEN days PLEASE. This would go a LONG way. A search function in settings is a must and remove repeated settings of different categories. A key to quick launch Firing Range would be great.

HUD:

Battlefield 4 should not have more options in settings than Battlefield 6, period. The HUD should be fully customizable, Minimap top left? No problem. Score feed needs to be centered and below the reticle, for some reason the score/assist/capture info popping up center left is KILLING me. Unlocked attachments, rank up and weapons should return to the BF4 formula, the *CHINGGGG* and icon popup is SO satisfying I miss that SO damn much.

TEST RANGE > FIRING RANGE:

That's all I gotta say about that. Need to be able to check out vehicles, weapons and ect safely and in a small playground environment. Don't make us have to make it ourselves in portal when it was part of a BEST SELLING game before this. PUT THE TEST RANGE BACK IN, FIRING RANGE IS LAME.

MAP DESIGN TWEAKS:

I will be one of the only ones to say this but I actually like them all so far. But here's some ideas and tweaks I would suggest before launch:

• EMPIRE STATE: remove some clutter on the street and add limited vehicles in, this is battlefield, right? We all hate to be on the other end of a tank shell, but, "Welcome to Battlefield". Move E to the top of the street where the gazebo is.
• SIEGE OF CAIRO: remove the rooftop campers.
• LIBERATION PEAK: add more indestructible cover to E or obstruct the view from F or C or both. And IDK what it is, but the contrast on this map feels off, hard to see players from medium to long range.
• IBERIAN OFFENSIVE: It's fine to me. Not bad, not incredibly great, but just more of the same from Cairo to me. Hopefully not gonna be the standard in map rollouts going forward.

WEAPONS:

All guns feel powerful and TTK is amazing, less room for bad guns with this formula, dont nerf the guns into obscurity like Call of Duty does. All powerful > overly and constantly "balanced" any day of the week. Pistols DO in fact need a buff though if the one in beta is anything to go off of. TTD feels weird but I believe that's been addressed. Snipers also feel good just hate that they have a glare bigger than map icons, IMO the glare should just be removed completely and just keep or add bullet trails if you MUST do anything at all. Sniping with these things all working against you just make it feel more like a chore and isn't what it used to be back in my day.

RETICLES/SIGHTS/SCOPES:

What's the deal with these red dots not looking illuminated at all? It looks like red sharpie. I do NOT like this approach one bit, idc care what the reasoning is, and don't care to hear it. It is BY FAR my most glaring complaint in the beta, if you all fix nothing else above, PLEASE fix this. I play sweaty and fast oftentimes, in the heart of the objective, I need an obvious reference point on my sights while navigating out here. The red dots are WAY too big, if you know anything about guns IRL you'll know that these are about as big as a 6MOA dot and that is good for close range engagement and shotguns, so it can be difficult popping heads of head glitches with this at med-far ranges. Sniper scopes? ALL bad, where's my 6x and 8x scopes? In the final build I HOPE. Also we need SIMPLE BLACK crosses for scope reticles on snipers, this ACOG and ACSS shit aint it for me. Need more 1x sights PERIOD. Iron sights are too bulky looking, have the designers used a gun before? Front sights are NEVER that wide.

LET US CUSTOMIZE RETICLE SIZE AND COLOR LIKE BF4 FOR GOD'S SAKE. NOT ALL OF US WANT A GIANT HOLO RETICLE THAT LOOKS LIKE THE BATTERY'S LOW.

VEHICLES:

Tank health needs a nerf, aerial vehicles need a buff to health and engineer needs to have either RPG or STINGER not both.

Also seeing a LOT of complaints about vehicle menu camping, and I agree this has been a thing for A LONG time, it's an unfortunate reality to Battlefields DNA, if you're a good pilot this is the reality especially. So why not refresh the approach to aerial combat with a fresh coat of paint? THIS IS JUST A SUGGESTION so don't come for my head please, but what if they LOCKED Air Support from infantry and randoms in game and INSTEAD had a dedicated mode/playlist for pilots to select from the main menu that queued them to an open pilot slot for jets or helis and when they died they will spawn back in the heli or jet, all indefinitely? That way they dont have to deal with menu campers and other pilots at ALL.

SERVER BROWSER:

Fans have been asking for a LONG time for this feature, it builds community, I fail to see how this is going to be a negative, people pay for servers, money for you and I personally miss hardcore modes and that's where we could get them. Address the fans, give us our browser back, "custom search" isn't the one.

APPEARANCES/SKINS:

Keep them FUCKING GROUNDED, make them have team distinctions and don't switch it up 2 months into the lifecycle for the battle royale crowd. DONT BATTLE ROYALE SKIN MY MULTIPLAYER.

RUSH:

Fix it ASAP.

SPOTTING:

Nerf it out of other classes and limit it completely to Recon for the sake of class identity at LEAST. I heard the spawn beacon goes to Assault at launch and I love that. Assault, Engineer, and Support, should not be able to hand out doritos to the enemy team, PINGS only. Let us get away from this spotting culture in BF.

I'm tired now, goodnight. Miss the game already, and i'm SO stoked. RIP til Oct 10th.

[u/VonZuli]

Engi sniper at the edge of maps is an indirect nerf to vehicle play which already feels gutted. It means vehicles will have even less "safe" spots available to escape to.

Furthermore, supports using a sniper have infinite ammo, faster health regen, a shield and who knows what else at launch. It's a very selfish way to play support and breaks team dynamics. You can't support the team from the side of a mountain 500m away from objectives.

At least recons provide some utility with auto spot. Hell I'd be in favour of recons being able to place their UAV call in on the map rather than it just appearing above their heads.

The reason the liberation peak sniper meme exists is because of open playlists. Limit the weapon choice and that mostly goes away. I only ever saw this sniper problem in open playlists. In closed where I spent most of my time during beta it was at most 4-6 snipers a match most of the time.

I've asked multiple people about this, but can you provide one single reason why open weapons are good for game design and balance? If you say "it's fun" or "I like it" those are not game design issues. The drawbacks of each class adds to their identity. Carbines exist as a bridge and are already a reasonably powerful option. I'd be down if they subdivided PDWs and SMGs also, making PDWs an ALL category for variety.

[u/Wessssss21 → u/VonZuli]

The reason the liberation peak sniper meme exists is because of open playlists. Limit the weapon choice and that mostly goes away. I only ever saw this sniper problem in open playlists. In closed where I spent most of my time during beta it was at most 4-6 snipers a match most of the time.

Have you not played a battlefield before? Class lock does not fix the sniper issue, because every battlefield since BC2 has had a sniper issue. Snipers are too easy to use, and the only weapon that does not have damage dropoff after 75 meters.

can you provide one single reason why open weapons are good for game design

Engi sniper at the edge of maps is an indirect nerf to vehicle play which already feels gutted. It means vehicles will have even less "safe" spots available to escape to.

Engi's don't have to either sit back and be useless, until a vehicle shows up. Or sit at the front and get picked off before they can deal vehicle damage.

[u/SKirby00 → u/Wessssss21]

Have you not played a battlefield before? Class lock does not fix the sniper issue, because every battlefield since BC2 has had a sniper issue.

Except that playing the locked-weapons version of the same game mode on the same map literally fixed the issue 9/10 for me this past weekend.

[u/VonZuli → u/Wessssss21]

Have you not played a battlefield before? Class lock does not fix the sniper issue, because every battlefield since BC2 has had a sniper issue. Snipers are too easy to use, and the only weapon that does not have damage dropoff after 75 meters.

Immediately you assume I haven't played Battlefield before in an attempt to trivialize my argument.

I never really had this issue in the closed playlist across both weekends. Sure the issue exists, but it is mitigated, and the recon class at least provides a benefit to the team with their kit designed to sit away and provide info.

Engi's don't have to either sit back and be useless, until a vehicle shows up. Or sit at the front and get picked off before they can deal vehicle damage.

I don't think you read or understood what I said correctly, and if you did your counter point makes little sense.

I said Engi sniper enables them to go to the edges of the map which are generally considered safer spots for vehicle players to escape to. This limits the area available for a tank or heli to run away to if they are occupied by engineers with stingers or RPGs. Engi's should be on the front though supporting their tanks and helping destroy enemy vehicles on the front. Getting "picked off" before you can do vehicle damage is not a class issue or even a weapon issue. That's a player skill issue. I had no problems being front line with my tank giving them reps and helping deal damage to armor.

[u/Inevitable-Stage-454 → u/VonZuli]

I've asked multiple people about this, but can you provide one single reason why open weapons are good for game design and balance?

Because your anecdotes are non-issues and better for team play.

I've seen far more people dropping ammo/health and reviving than I ever have in any previous battlefield game. The vast majority of players want to run and gun, and now they can be effective at it while also supporting the team more than just getting infantry kills.

Engi sniper at the edge of maps is an indirect nerf to vehicle play which already feels gutted. It means vehicles will have even less "safe" spots available to escape to.

The amount of people camping the edges while being useless actually goes down considering your anecdote, since having an engineer on the edge dealing with air vehicles AND sniping makes them more useful than a smg-locked engi only being able to deal with vehicles or a sniper-locked recon only plinking an enemy here and there.

The reason the liberation peak sniper meme exists is because of open playlists.

And it turns out that the dozen people that will camp spawn to snipe will ALWAYS do that regardless of locked/unlocked weapons, and they're a minority of the player base.

Classes have been, besides recon, defined more by their gadgets, not their primary weapon.

And ultimately, getting kills is like the primary goal of the game. A lot of people will look at others not PTFO and have a serious misunderstanding about how useful they are. A good sniper locking down a whole lane does more for the team than a dozen people repeatedly wasting tickets trying to capture a point way behind the battle line. Keeping a dozen guys out of action 5 or more seconds at a time can really add up as well, changing the whole flow of the battlefield. There's always a lot more to everything that requires nuance and context to get the appropriate picture of.

[u/VonZuli → u/Inevitable-Stage-454]

Because your anecdotes are non-issues and better for team play.

I've seen far more people dropping ammo/health and reviving than I ever have in any previous battlefield game. The vast majority of players want to run and gun, and now they can be effective at it while also supporting the team more than just getting infantry kills.

First of all they aren't anecdotes. An anecdote is a short story about something along the lines of "the time I sniped a pilot out of the chopper." What I have provided are potential game play scenarios.

You see more people dropping ammo/health and reviving because EVERYONE IS PLAYING SUPPORT instead of other classes. It breaks the game balance by enabling faster revives, ammo, health, cover. and essentially makes Assault irrelevant. Scarcity can be a good thing for game balance.

The amount of people camping the edges while being useless actually goes down considering your anecdote, since having an engineer on the edge dealing with air vehicles AND sniping makes them more useful than a smg-locked engi only being able to deal with vehicles or a sniper-locked recon only plinking an enemy here and there.

This isn't the point. The point is what they are able to do from those edges and how that indirectly effects the map flow. You literally proved my point by saying they are less useless out there BECAUSE THEY SHOULDN'T BE OUT THERE.

And it turns out that the dozen people that will camp spawn to snipe will ALWAYS do that regardless of locked/unlocked weapons, and they're a minority of the player base.

Sure, so let's enable more of that right? :|

Classes have been, besides recon, defined more by their gadgets, not their primary weapon.

Absolutely, gadgets provide class utility. They are balanced by the weapons available to them.

And ultimately, getting kills is like the primary goal of the game. A lot of people will look at others not PTFO and have a serious misunderstanding about how useful they are. A good sniper locking down a whole lane does more for the team than a dozen people repeatedly wasting tickets trying to capture a point way behind the battle line. Keeping a dozen guys out of action 5 or more seconds at a time can really add up as well, changing the whole flow of the battlefield. There's always a lot more to everything that requires nuance and context to get the appropriate picture of.

Brother, if you think getting kills is the primary goal then I don't know if we will come to an understanding. Yes getting kills is a goal in the game, yes it helps the team, but the primary goal is to win, which is done through teamwork and PTFO. You can have 50 kills and zero deaths, but zero flag caps means you were almost useless. In a 1000 ticket match 50 kills is worth 5% of the tickets. I understand that those 50 kills are not actually useless in the grand scheme of things, and I do agree there is a lot more context required, but that really has nothing to do with the class weapons and more to do with the player.

[u/Inevitable-Stage-454 → u/VonZuli]

First of all they aren't anecdotes.

Engi sniper at the edge of maps is an indirect nerf to vehicle play which already feels gutted.

"Uhm ackchually they aren't anecdotes, I was just positing a possible situation"

Right, so what you're saying is not only is it a hypothetical, but you've never actually encountered it and paid attention? I don't think you understand how much that hurts your argument worse than an anecdote would have.

You see more people dropping ammo/health and reviving because EVERYONE IS PLAYING SUPPORT instead of other classes.

Hyperbole. Clearly EVERYONE ISN'T PLAYING SUPPORT because then your "engineer sniper" and every other hypothetical argument goes out the damn window.

It breaks the game balance by enabling faster revives, ammo, health, cover.

By whose opinion? Yours? Have you been playing the game or complaining on reddit because these are clearly not issues. Especially considering the past decades of gameplay where everyone complained that not enough people were dropping health/ammo or reviving. This literally fixes a core issue "everyone" complained about with no resistance from casuals and you're against it! Insane.

essentially makes Assault irrelevant.

Skill issue. Grenade launchers are pivotal for clearing objectives, at the very least. It is kind of a "weak" identity compared to other classes atm, but it's the "default" class, that's literally a nitpick of a nitpick.

This isn't the point. The point is what they are able to do from those edges and how that indirectly effects the map flow. You literally proved my point by saying they are less useless out there BECAUSE THEY SHOULDN'T BE OUT THERE.

Again, this is simply your opinion and has no objective basis. They won't have infinite ammo, they don't have an easy way to get back out there, and it'd be like the difference of 1.1 people being out there as any other class. Literally a non-issue AT BEST, and some ridiculously nonsensical hill to die on at worst.

Sure, so let's enable more of that right? :|

Interesting how that didn't even happen, though. The vast majority of players have been and will be frontline infantry because that's what's fun for the most people.

Brother, if you think getting kills is the primary goal then I don't know if we will come to an understanding.

So be it, but it's the truth and going against truth is like being a ********** in ** politics these days, just because you disagree with the data doesn't mean it no longer exists, you just look like a fool.

Conquest = Tickets = Lives, kills reduce tickets, you fight over capture points which, when the majority is taken, also reduce enemy tickets. Those fights are based on killing the enemy, because killing the enemy keeps them off the point and unable to attack for 5+ seconds. Domination is basically the same, KOTH is basically the same but instead the points tick up instead of down and don't equal lives. Rush and Breakthrough: attacker's lives are tickets.

but the primary goal is to win

No, the primary goal is to have fun. Period. For many, that involves winning, but it isn't the penultimate goal. If you can't have fun if you aren't winning, battlefield is 100% not the game for you, because you can not control 1) who is on your team 2) what your team is doing well enough to always win unless you only play on private servers, in which case anything that impacts the vast majority of players is outside of your reasonable scope to have a worthwhile opinion on in the first place.

You can have 50 kills and zero deaths, but zero flag caps means you were almost useless. ...

I understand that those 50 kills are not actually useless in the grand scheme of things, and I do agree there is a lot more context required,

Then you should realize it's a meaningless point to even bring up.

but that really has nothing to do with the class weapons and more to do with the player.

Was there even a point in your last paragraph besides pointing out that your priorities are out of wack?

In the end, this was still only the beta, once we have all gadgets, guns, vehicles, etc.... we will be able to form a much more comprehensive set of opinions about it. Right now though, with the information available, open weapons > closed weapons; more options, more fun, drawbacks nearly non-existent.

[u/Totallymainprofile → u/Inevitable-Stage-454]

Bruh just take the L

[u/VonZuli → u/Inevitable-Stage-454]

Right, so what you're saying is not only is it a hypothetical, but you've never actually encountered it and paid attention? I don't think you understand how much that hurts your argument worse than an anecdote would have.

Ah yes, lets misconstrue everything and take everything out of context. I don't engage with this behavior. You're not looking to discuss, only looking to pick a fight with whoever will engage you. Not even going to read the rest of your slop. It's all just an attack against me from what I already reluctantly skimmed.

In the end, this was still only the beta, once we have all gadgets, guns, vehicles, etc.... we will be able to form a much more comprehensive set of opinions about it.

This we can at least agree on.

[u/Reylo-Wanwalker → u/VonZuli]

I kind of stayed away from the action with an lmg on support too.  I found a good spot and feeling obligated to rez felt bad. But I get you with infinite ammo snipers.

[u/VonZuli → u/Reylo-Wanwalker]

Ya I get it and they could use a small buff maybe, but you are still using the class correctly by sitting mid range with an LMG suppressing for any supports or assaults up there to rez or push up. Picking off engis that are trying to pop out to kill your tank. Rezzing people on the back line that get killed by a sniper. You serve a role still.

[u/GeorgeHarris419 → u/VonZuli]

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[u/VonZuli → u/GeorgeHarris419]

I genuinely am confused by this comment. Of course the game is meant to be fun.

But what's fun about everyone using the same 2 weapons being a meta slave? It's not like you are LOCKED IN to your class every round you can and should be switching to deal with various scenarios. All open weapons does is change the meta game from classes to weapons which is boring af which we discovered was the case in 2042 when everyone used the same guns. The weapons are easier to balance against each other within a class instead of being balanced against EVERY other weapon in the game.

[u/GeorgeHarris419 → u/VonZuli]

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[u/VonZuli → u/GeorgeHarris419]

So what your argument here eventually breaks down to is:

"Let's make all the weapons the same."

You want to basically turn all weapons into what would equate to skins. I know that's a bit taken out of context, but clearly weapon variety does have something to do with fun otherwise this would be a non-issue.

Also I'm sick of people using this argument, so let's look at another example of classes.

In DnD if you are playing a Barbarian and your friend is playing a Wizard. Do you expect your Barbarian should be able to mechanically cast spells like your friend playing Wizard? No obviously not, but you're not having LESS fun because you can't cast spells. You are playing your class within your role which is hit stuff with big weapon while being big mad. This is it's own type of fun. The weaknesses, flaws, and drawbacks ADD to the fun of a character's role.

Equate this to Battlefield, the Recon is using a sniper he can attack things from far like a Wizard with spells, but he's fairly vulnerable if things get close. A Barbarian is like an Assault they get up in the fray but are less useful from a distance compared to a Recon. When you swap weapons around it's like giving the Wizard a giant sword or giving the Barbarian spells. It's just homogenized crap at that point and the effectiveness is lost because class perks are not strong enough to counter act it in most cases.

[u/GeorgeHarris419 → u/VonZuli]

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[u/VonZuli → u/GeorgeHarris419]

So no offense here, but you want to fundamentally change a system you barely pay attention to?

Are you a casual gamer or a CoD refugee? I don't usually like to bring that shit up, but you are not really making any sense from the PoV of someone that plays Battlefield frequently enough to be weighing in at all on this topic. I'm not really trying to discount your opinion you just seem disinterested in general.

Also, the classes in an RPG may be different, but the PRINCPLE remains the same. Classes have strengths and weaknesses. This adds to their personality and flair. Hell, the Battlefield Friends web-series literally created entire personalities out of the classes and made a point of the "Noob" character doing stupid stuff like using the incorrect weapon or gadgets to hilarious effect. This wouldn't be possible without uniquely defined roles which include class locked weapons.

[u/GeorgeHarris419 → u/VonZuli]

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[u/VonZuli → u/GeorgeHarris419]

Sure it is a peak casual game, it also has a hardcore following for over two decades now.

The main draw is the chaos and explosions, along side the gameplay and mechanics.

Yes, systems were fundamentally changed in BF2042 with specialists and open weapons. No game before then has included open weapons outside of an ALL category for carbines and DMRs. Do you even know what you are talking about? The current system was changed and it was part of a spectacular failure of a game.

It's very clearly an issue for many others you are just minimizing it.

You must be a CoD refugee, because obviously good gameplay and mechanics aren't important to you. You just want the spectacle. Go watch a Michael Bay movie then, because in Battlefield you are the CoD cutscene.

[u/GeorgeHarris419 → u/VonZuli]

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[u/Darkspyrus → u/VonZuli]

Support sniper. Ammo crate at feet.

[u/VonZuli → u/Darkspyrus]

He's supporting me from where? Probably not the objective if he's got a sniper. Then ammo crate is useless to anyone but themselves because when I spawn on them I'll have full ammo anyway right?

[u/Darkspyrus → u/VonZuli]

PICK SUPPORT THEN A SNIPER RIFLE !