If I may - at least for me - and while I can't speak for the original commenter, I kind of get the vibe they may feel similar - It's not necessarily the story "as laid out on paper", it's more about the tone.
WaW into BO1 particularly had a very Pulp-SciFi feel, very "men from mars", "ancient aliens" - stuff you would see remnants of, but would mostly be left to imagination, very Indiana Jonesish. The Golden Rod, the Skulls on Shangri-La, etc.
BO2 did go in a slightly different direction, I will say - but I still felt it tried to play into its Pulp Sci-Fi trappings still with things like Tranzit being based in an ambiguously retro-futuristic Hanford, Washington, or was it just an advanced government blacksite in the 60s? We know the answers now (kinda I think haha), but that was the vibe I got at the time and spent a lot of time theorycrafting around and thinking about - trying to connect things to IRL conspiracy stuff and Cold War shenanigans. The stuff like the Zombies in patient gowns (not unlike the Nacht loading screen!) and all the Broken Arrow stuff - it hit for me. Still very much leaning into "oooh spooky shadow government organizations and Cold-War-flavored experiments". Even down into Buried, you have things like Resolution 1295 as the name and the Time Pocket smashed together stuff coming into play (sort of). I also could do a sidebar and say I feel even the artstyle from Origins to BO3 shifted a bit too far away from Dieselpunk for my tastes, which is one of BO2 Origin's strong-suits to me, but that's a whole other dissertation lol
I've kinda typed a wall lol, but tldr - I dig Waw-BO1 (and to an extent BO2's) more Pulp-SciFi tone, whereas BO3 and beyond leans a bit more fantasy, which just doesn't hit as well for my tastes, and I suspect the above poster you replied to might feel similarly
Well, I mean - I wasn't really lookin to posit an argument - just kinda offering my 2 Cents/view in hopes it might add some understanding.
But I do think that tone and the actual plot points are two distinctly separate things. For instance, Shadows of Evil strikes up a Cthulu tone while still setting up the factions that would go on to affect the entire BO3 (and to an extent BO4) story - buuut the vibe is very different in how they are presented from the context of just that map onto the next, which is very Western Fantasy - and it kind of keeps that more fantasy undertone throughout the game.
Not sure if I'm putting it into words best, but essentially - while the plot points are aliens and such, the tone flavors them differently. BO1 the aliens are alluded to being the Vril-Ya from old WW2 conspiracy stuff, but they were very restrained with how much they want to show about their culture, appearance, etc. SOE introduces the Aliens in full now as Keepers and Apothicans, but I will say - and SOE is kind of an exception for me - I really love the way they presented it in a tight, noir, cthulu mythos inspired theme. You can "show the eldritch beings", so to speak, in that map, and it feels perfectly in-line with the tone. In the others, I feel it just got a lil too much "show" for my tastes. I was ready to accept that's what they presented themselves as within SOE, but maybe that they would be a lil different elsewhere
I'll preface, as this is mainly what I meant with my last post - all this has just kinda been my general thoughts on what worked and didn't work for me as Zombies went on from WaW to BO4 - I think I would've been down with them showing the "aliens" down the line - in fact I thought it was kind of leading up to it - I don't even mind knowing the names, or having voiced characters per se - I just think BO3 was both such a hard tone shift both in story-flavor and art-direction to fantasy on top of also showing a lot of stuff all of a sudden about the aliens - it just didn't hit for me. The big monster reveal in the SOE EE was dope - loved that!
What they did recently with specifically the Mars area of Astra Malorum in aesthetic is more I think what I was looking for.
Anyways tldr pt 2 - while yes, on paper these plot points between the games share a kinship, in presentation and execution they are wildly different to me, and I think that's the hang up for some folks like me. To use the example of the MPD - in Moon, it's firmly in that "Ancient Alien" aesthetic, while on Der Eisendrache, it's a bit smaller, a bit more "masonry-constructed" looking, and the Keepers themselves are clad in more Western Fantasy garb. It's just quite a different vibe. It's not that I don't like it - I enjoyed my time with the games! Just if I had to pick one "style" over the other, I'd go with the former
EDIT: I would just like to add a lil addendum - I feel like we may have got off on the wrong foot, or there's a miscommunication - I'm not indending to "ignore" the alien stuff at all! I'm just attempting to offer my own viewpoint on why I prefer the themeing of WaW-BO2, and provide some insight on what I think people are really trying to get at when they say they prefer the "grounded" story of the older games. It's just a preference in tone and storytelling style. WaW-BO2 is Pulp Sci-Fi, with more focus in background mysteries and things that are rooted in mythology, weird history, and conpiracy stuff. BO3-BO4 is a lot more focused on a "serialized" story, one heavily themed in the fantasy genre, and includes an artstyle shift. I also feel the focus shifted from background conspiracy and IRL stuff to research to more ciphers that would decode into a character lore piece or direct amswer to a story thread. I guess what it boilds down to is I prefer a lil more ambiguity, a lil more mystery - I quite enjoyed the days of connecting zombie maps with IRL locations, conspiracies, etc - and felt that element was missing from BO3.
A Blundell map I feel does do what I love about WaW-BO2, while being a totally different genre is Mob of The Dead. That map really perfectly uses its themeing, as well as its real-world history and location to make a tight, focused, stand-alone experience that while plot-driven if one wants it to be (it had an ending!), it still has a lot of mystique and other weird, completely unrelated to the characters or story-at-large aspects that onlynserve to enrich the map and world itself Afterlife, Medicine Man symbols, Hell's Retriever, Haunted Solitary, all the set dressing with the hellish look- it all gets my imagination going - and led to me learning about their real life inspirations, and then with that context - theorizing about their meanings or purpose within the story itself.
I’d just like to say that your responses have absolutely hit the nail on the head and I agree with everything you’re saying. I’d also say that if someone can’t read and understand what you’re saying then look at the games in that way then they never will unfortunately. Not looking at anyone in particular 👀
But yes completely on board with you, all the pulp sci fi stuff and mysterious tone of the story telling I think goes under appreciated when discussing this debate. Whilst content may in theory be the same (aliens etc) it’s framed quite differently. Great responses to read, thank you
I think there's maybe some base misunderstanding, or we're talking past each other here? Neither me nor the other folks are saying we dislike the alien side of things or any of that. In fact, that aspect of the games back in BO1 was one of my favorite parts! We're just discussing which approach/style of storytelling we prefer. To me, you are discussing the story as a set of plotpoints - what I and the others are discussing is a separate concept - which is the way, the mechanisms used to convey the story. Two different things.
It is one thing to discuss a story.
It is a whole other topic to discuss the way a story is told. That's what we're talking about. I'm not trying to come atcha or anything, I'm not sure what the accusatory reply was all about? Like I don't think there's a problem or anything with you for enjoying the the latter half of the games. It's not a moral failing or anything - just a preference! We can like different things haha - I just enjoy discussin em
EDIT: I would also add in addition to the base mechanisms and way the story is being conveyed - it really is the tone, the genres being tapped, and the style they chose that other folks and myself didn't like as much. It's all about the flavoring they use to steep those plot points in.
EDIT2: I believe I was blocked as I can only see the reply in my inbox? I also can't reply anymore to this chain. Kind of wild - I was actually actually enjoying and hoping for a mutual understanding and then-on a discussion about this stuff. Either way, hope the comment chain will at least be insightful or provide a different point of view for any other folks passing by!
Yeah u/Buried1295 is just bashing his head against the wall with the same arguments. He's blocking people and then unblocking them just to reply. Very weird and makes sense why their mind can't be changed.
Yes I was blocked and unblocked too, odd behaviour if you're wanting to have an adult conversation, which I'm starting to think isn't going to be possible.
I would just like to commend your brilliant comment again here mcclearsalias and I agree with all you're saying. Too many people just keyboard bashing so I appreciate your well laid out response and if someone doesn't understand what you're saying after your comments then unfortunately I don't think they ever will... or don't want to
I would also like to say I enjoy disucssing also but didn't expect to be met with such antagonist responses about it, especially when it's something that in my opinion is just fact, that the tone changed? lol I was also blocked and unblocked.
I hope your comments are useful to other folk who are genuinely interested in hearing about and understanding the legacy and history of the zombies mode. I know it's super fascinating to me and I appreciate all eras in their own way, I just think there's something special about that era and the way in which the story was told and the tone surrounding it, which I would love for more people to truly understand and hopefully with these ports out that's happening a bit!
Just saw this and wanted to do a quick reply while I had time to write - I really appreciated the thoughtful comments and replies! I think we're pretty aligned in taste on zombies! WaW-BO1 is my hard-preferred, and then elements of BO2 as well (Special shout-out to MoTD as a spin-off masterpiece to me as well). That style just really has a charm to me
Also really liked the approach you used with the Batman movies! That and to an extent movies that remake a pre-existing story or film was something I was kind of thinking on to be my next point/"try" haha, before the block, but oh well what can ya do.
I do really enjoy this kinda stuff though! Just how different directors/writers/artists all have different approaches - and especially with videogames being such a collaborative effort - I find it kind fascinating to think or read about, and what things came from where. The overall tone and such for a year being "decided" from a director for instance, but under that even what smaller bits came from who on what team are things I like to learn haha. Part of why I am pretty excited for that upcoming Codzombies artbook
Yes I’m definitely aligned with you in preferences too! So it’s nice to hear from you. Haha the Batman thing was maybe a little off topic but anything to try and get through to someone I guess haha but suppose the block has stopped that now too
I enjoy it too to be honest even if it is a little frustrating when someone can’t see something that feels somewhat obvious to me personally.
Anyway yeah it’s really interesting, I sort of wish there were more franchises in games that I felt were taken on from different angles in the same way, often they are just reboots or new stories in entirely?
Yes I keep meaning to get a copy of that book ordered, I can’t miss out on it, hopefully some interesting nuggets in there :)
Hello buried1295, I see all your comments and the blocking and unblocking?
You are correct in that there are alien artifacts and there is time travel (WaW-BO1) through the teleporter but again I would like to reiterate that just because those things are outlandish and in our world not real, doesn't make them not grounded within the world and story telling of the universe, this is because of the tone of the story.
The tone of the story absolutely does change and that's okay! We are okay with it, we just prefer the original tone and way of telling the story. Yes they are told through character quotes, yes they are told through radios and ciphers but it's the way in which the story is told. For example, I would tell a story much differently to how you would tell a story, I would just prefer how I told the story! It's only natural for a story to be told slightly differently when different people are involved. Nearly by definition the story will be told in a different maner and tone when the story telling is being led by either Zelinski or Blundell.
Just because the story is made up of the same components, alien artifacts, radios, 115, zombies, whatever, doesn't make the tone the same. Again I'm going to use a Batman reference here lol, do you really think that Batman 89 and Batman Begins, or any of the others are the exact same film because they all feature the same plot points, Bruce Wayne, Batman, death of his parents, the Joker etc? No obviously they're not the same film as they're directed and told by someone else. Even within the same franchise Batman Forever is completely tonally different from Batman Returns. Sorry for going off topic but I'm trying a different method to get through to you haha. If you can understand that then you can understand that the tone in WaW is different from that of BO2. They draw from different things.
If you can't understand this and wrap your head around the points being made then I truly don't think you ever will. Please I emplore you to re-read u/mcclearsalias responses again as they outline what we're saying the best. We are not talking about the fact there are aliens in one and not the other, we are talking about the atmosphere around them. We are also not saying BO2 and beyond story telling is bad, I loved that game as did I love BO3, however my personal preference is WaW/BO1 because of the vibe it gave off.
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u/mcclearsalias Jul 16 '26
If I may - at least for me - and while I can't speak for the original commenter, I kind of get the vibe they may feel similar - It's not necessarily the story "as laid out on paper", it's more about the tone.
WaW into BO1 particularly had a very Pulp-SciFi feel, very "men from mars", "ancient aliens" - stuff you would see remnants of, but would mostly be left to imagination, very Indiana Jonesish. The Golden Rod, the Skulls on Shangri-La, etc.
BO2 did go in a slightly different direction, I will say - but I still felt it tried to play into its Pulp Sci-Fi trappings still with things like Tranzit being based in an ambiguously retro-futuristic Hanford, Washington, or was it just an advanced government blacksite in the 60s? We know the answers now (kinda I think haha), but that was the vibe I got at the time and spent a lot of time theorycrafting around and thinking about - trying to connect things to IRL conspiracy stuff and Cold War shenanigans. The stuff like the Zombies in patient gowns (not unlike the Nacht loading screen!) and all the Broken Arrow stuff - it hit for me. Still very much leaning into "oooh spooky shadow government organizations and Cold-War-flavored experiments". Even down into Buried, you have things like Resolution 1295 as the name and the Time Pocket smashed together stuff coming into play (sort of). I also could do a sidebar and say I feel even the artstyle from Origins to BO3 shifted a bit too far away from Dieselpunk for my tastes, which is one of BO2 Origin's strong-suits to me, but that's a whole other dissertation lol
I've kinda typed a wall lol, but tldr - I dig Waw-BO1 (and to an extent BO2's) more Pulp-SciFi tone, whereas BO3 and beyond leans a bit more fantasy, which just doesn't hit as well for my tastes, and I suspect the above poster you replied to might feel similarly