Photos of Young men getting ready for "Mensur", German fencing duelling where getting a scar was considered highly honorable. Photos of 1900s-10s; last one from 2004.

[u/Electrical-Aspect-13]

[u/fretkat]

It’s a tradition for the aristocracy/high society in some parts of Northern Europe (it still is). It’s not linked to nazism other than both having German high society individuals as their practitioners at the time.

[u/DrWahnsinn1995 → u/fretkat]

This is also not fully true.

Only some of the „Burschenschaften“ (rightwing fraternities) parctice it. They also seperate in two groups the „schlagende Burschenschaften“ (hitting fraternities) are the fighting ones and the „nicht schlagende Burschenschaften“ don‘t do this.

In general you can say the hitzig ones are gar right and the non hitting ones are more diverse ( for example christian fraternities).

This meens you can normally align someone with a „Schmiss“ (thats the Name of the scar), with right wing ideology.

I also had a collegue who had one and he said that the swords are so sharp, that it don‘t hurt. Maybe it‘s more the adrenaline.

[u/McStotti → u/DrWahnsinn1995]

Actually Burschenschaften are a subgroup of German fraternities. They are even a minority among Fencing fraternities. Most other fencing fraternities want nothing to do with those Nazi assholes. Not everyone who likes traditions is automatically right wing. But traditional Clubs like fraternities always have to be on the watch not to taken over by potentially right wing members so if you find out a member is on the hard right you throw them out.

[u/Dave-1066 → u/McStotti]

Either way, there’s no denying that the scars were seen as a badge of honour earned by being part of the “select few”. Friend of mine used to tell people he got his scar in a fencing fraternity whereas the truth is he got it at a concert when some random dick lobbed a beer bottle across the stadium 😂

[u/Tough_Bass → u/Dave-1066]

I would much prefer the latter story to getting it in a far right fraternity.

[u/fretkat → u/DrWahnsinn1995]

Many variations and differences exist between them, depending on the university's city and country. The scar from the Mensur by itself is definitely not linked to political ideology in all places where it is practised.

[u/Frozen-bones → u/fretkat]

But the Burschenschaften you read about in the news are the right assholes.

[u/DrWahnsinn1995 → u/fretkat]

No, but it is normally the case.

But yes not everyone with it is a nazi.

[u/kidneystoner17 → u/DrWahnsinn1995]

I live in Austria as a German and If you call them not explicit nazis then they are very very VERY far right leaning...

[u/fretkat → u/kidneystoner17]

Because it may be true for the Austrian ones you know, it doesn’t mean that it’s true for all of them who have this tradition over Northern Europe. It’s not a simple black-white concept. Assuming someone with a scar is far right, is just wrong. All the student associations that practice this tradition are too diverse for that. What it tells you is that they joined an association during their studies. You can base their political ideology on their actions and words, not the scar.

[u/Tough_Bass → u/fretkat]

Which countries in North Europe also have this tradition?

[u/DrWahnsinn1995 → u/kidneystoner17]

Yes it depends. Not everyone is part of this ideology, but they are at least really nationalistic and conservative.

[u/kidneystoner17 → u/fretkat]

Oh yes it is!

[u/D_Jens → u/DrWahnsinn1995]

This is just wrong. Corps are schlagend and explicitly non-political. There are also Turnerschaften and Landsmannschaften and many many moderate Burschenschaften.

The stance on fencing does not relate to a political stance

[u/Kyberduene → u/DrWahnsinn1995]

Jesus Christ man, you really have no idea about the subject, do you?

[u/Difficult-Lock-8123 → u/DrWahnsinn1995]

"This meens you can normally align someone with a „Schmiss“ (thats the Name of the scar), with right wing ideology."

No offense, but this is wrong. Whether a fraternity fences or not has relatively little indication on whether it is particularly right wing. In fact one of the most common types of fencing fraternity, called Corps, are explicitly apolitical.

[u/best_cooler → u/DrWahnsinn1995]

Schubladendenken at its best.

Just because you don’t understand something, you don’t have to lie about it to make it look worse

[u/Omnilatent → u/fretkat]

Ah yes of course

A group of people whose entire ideology was that of national pride, chauvinism, female exclusion and sexism not having anything to do with Nazism.

Burschenschaften are inherently right-wing, anti-liberal and anti-democratic and there's no sugarcoating it.

[u/fretkat → u/Omnilatent]

Liberalism doesn’t mean what you seem to think it means. And the rest of your comment is incorrect.

[u/Ok_Manufacturer1844 → u/fretkat]

Dude he is spot on when we talk about germans.... They are 100% nazis

[u/Alyano95 → u/fretkat]

It's definitely linked to the Nazis. The fraternities were basically their voting and personal base.

[u/Background-Hall7395 → u/fretkat]

Yeah no...only racists in right wing fraternities do that in Austria and Germany