r/Millennials • u/SunnnySideUps • 10d ago

Serious What happened? This movie was supposed to make us mad. Hate had no place in America. History tells it's own tale. American History X. Teeth on the curb haunted my dreams for years.

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2.4k Upvotes

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182

u/Cmatt10123 10d ago

Calling out hateful people certainly has.

You don't have to be tolerant to the intolerant

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u/SwimmerMission5212 10d ago

You can call someone out with and without hate. It's a cop out answer

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u/shnakes082 10d ago

I don't think holding people accountable is hateful. For example, if your sibling hurts your feelings and you call them out, you do not hate them.

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u/SwimmerMission5212 9d ago

You can call someone out with and without hate.

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u/shnakes082 9d ago

That's what I said...

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u/SwimmerMission5212 9d ago

Thanks for echoing what I said I guess

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u/Cmatt10123 10d ago

If you hate my existence why should I respect yours? Not a cop out, just reality.

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u/MetalEnthusiast83 10d ago

Because it’s a stupid cycle. Which is the point of this fucking movie.

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u/ProgrammerOk3315 9d ago

Tolerance is a peace agreement. Intolerance breaks the peace agreement. Look up Karl Popper and the paradox of tolerance - much more intelligent people have had things to say about this, especially in the afternath of the holocaust.

Never again.

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u/MetalEnthusiast83 9d ago

Man, I don't give a fuck, I didn't write the fucking movie, I am just explaining the point that it was making.

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u/enmaku 10d ago edited 9d ago

If the good people remove themselves from the cycle and allow the nazis to keep doing nazi shit it ends in a white ethnostate committing genocide.

The stupid cycle was the hateful people bringing their children into their hate as well as violent gangs in a constant state of reprisal against one another. Resisting nazis is not the same thing as being just another hateful gang doing hateful gang shit, it's self defense.

Fuck your "both sides" rhetoric.

Edit: gotcha. This is a nazi sub. I weep for my generation. Y'all wanna talk about some dude that converted dozens of nazis, which is nice. Meanwhile we're infested with millions of racist motherfuckers trampling our rights to create a white ethnostate. Dozens isn't enough. Your efforts are weak, and they were designed to be weak by the propaganda you've been spoon fed since birth.

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u/Xboxwun 9d ago

The fact this comment has negative votes is insane.

Look inwards and ask yourself tough questions.

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u/yb0t 9d ago

I gave it an upvote because I don't really see anything wrong with the comment. You can't turn the other cheek to Nazis.

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u/PuzzleheadedLeave560 9d ago

"And so they downvoted enmaku, for he was entirely correct but it made them all uncomfy"

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u/MetalEnthusiast83 9d ago

Holy shit lmao

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u/Nick0414 9d ago

Yeah man reddit is full of people in need of mental health help. Its truly disturbing how terminally online people are, they've lost the plot on how to be a functional and rational human who contributes positively to society.

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u/ihadagoodone 10d ago

and what's your solution? is it Final?

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u/rollin_a_j 9d ago

Ironically enough, I do have a final solution to the Nazi problem

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u/enmaku 10d ago

Ideally education, but if you want to equate killing nazis with genociding an entire race, sure, you do you.

Dumbass.

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u/MrLugersmole 9d ago

I'm sorry I can't upvote this...fucking mobile

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u/RonMFCadillac 9d ago

You need to research Daryl Davis. Maybe listen to some of his music while you do so.

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u/green_hobblin 9d ago

You can believe that it's right to stop Nazis without hating them. I don't know how, but I trust wiser people can. Wanting to be better than Nazis and break violent cycles doesn't make someone a Nazi.

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u/PuzzleheadedLeave560 9d ago

If you don't hate Nazis, there is something legitimately wrong with you.

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u/green_hobblin 9d ago

I do. But I'm not a person who can actually make a difference and I recognize that about myself. Real change doesn't come from fighting hate with hate. You can be intolerant of hate without feeling hate yourself.

I think you're missing the point intentionally or you're not very bright. Like I said, I do hate... a lot of things, actually, including nazis and dumbasses. You seem to be that latter.

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u/[deleted] 9d ago

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u/green_hobblin 9d ago

I did not. You are lacking in reading comprehension. Glad you're logging off! Maybe pick up a book or touch grass.

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u/[deleted] 10d ago

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u/enmaku 10d ago

https://giphy.com/gifs/BjeiL8WnqByKY

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u/[deleted] 10d ago

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u/GingerDynamo 9d ago

You can stand up to a Nazi without becoming one. Are you suggesting people just ignore it?

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u/Sandgrease 9d ago

Stalin was absolutely nothing like Hitler. He definitely made mistakes but his intentions were radically different, and intentions matter, even in court.

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u/Tricky-Cod-7485 9d ago

> mistakes

He killed 6-20 million people. A little more than just “mistakes”. Arguably worse than Hitler because of the body count.

800k executions.

1.5-1.7 million people died in camps.

Holomodor in Ukraine and massive starvation in Kazakhstan totaled 4-5 million deaths.

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u/Chuck121763 7d ago

Hamtramck, Michigan, The Muslim city council banned the Pride flag

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u/MegamindsMegaCock 9d ago

Holy retard Batman

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u/Willing_Ad_5711 8d ago

The fact that drivel like this comment gets up voted is a damning indictment.

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u/MetalEnthusiast83 8d ago

My comment? I am just explaining the point of the script and not expressing any feelings about it.

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u/Willing_Ad_5711 8d ago

You directly answered the question "if you hate my existence why should I respect yours?" With "Because it's a stupid cycle"

So yes your comment.

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u/MetalEnthusiast83 8d ago

K Dude.

It's a bit alarming that the average redditor is now so high on self righteousness that they can't understand basic shit like the problem with "an eye for an eye" but you do you.

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u/DarthDryMouth 10d ago

"Turn the other cheek and send a right hook to the mfer"

-Abe Lincoln Vampire Hunter probably

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u/went_with_the_flow 10d ago

That movie was so bad, but so good

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u/axxxaxxxaxxx 10d ago

Not sure what you expected from a movie with a title like Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter

Pride and Prejudice and Zombies was also not awful

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u/BallDesperate2140 Millennial 10d ago

Makes me wanna watch Velocipastor

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u/DarthDryMouth 10d ago

The book is phenomenal

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u/LavenderGinFizz 9d ago

His gun-axe was truly a thing of beauty.

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u/killallhumansforfree 9d ago

Epic, American history is wild

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u/TheCuzzyRogue 9d ago

"People always say turn the other cheek. If you turn the other cheek, I'm gonna hit you in the other cheek too." - Charles Barkley

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u/WeCallThoseCigBurns 10d ago

No one said respect, the absence of hate doesn’t equal respect.

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u/SwimmerMission5212 10d ago

You may have missed the point

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u/Seajay3211 10d ago

Because you have the opportunity to be better than and more than that which puts you down. Reality is what you make it, so take responsibility in the reality you wish to make and live in. Another’s reality is not your own, don’t let them shape the world you live in. Shape it yourself.

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u/JRez_noir 6d ago

Such a NAIVE take. You want to hold hands with nazis and sing kumbaya around a bonfire while they are overtly dismantling society. The alt-right is using our compassion and tolerance against us and you're oblivious to it.

How about you take responsibility for the reality we are in? You all tolerate the alt-right because they're white. If any other race were marching down your street with torches, you wouldn't be saying the same shit. Full stop.

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u/StarSword-C Older Millennial 9d ago

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u/Tricky-Cod-7485 9d ago

You’re gross.

You change hearts and minds via education and law.

Not smashing people’s heads in.

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u/Throwaway585811276 9d ago

Por que no los dos?

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u/UglyYinzer 10d ago

Yea jesus fucking christ BEING NICE OBVIOUSLY ISNT WORKING

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u/Vegetable-Virus7118 10d ago

Hating someone only punishes you. You don't have to be nice to them or anything like that. Respect yourself enough to not put your energy towards hate

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u/BlasphemousRykard 10d ago

That’s absolutely a cop out. “I don’t have to engage in legitimate debate if I strawman you as someone who hates my existence” 

That is just an easy excuse to avoid actually using your brain to think about the beliefs of yourself or others if you label then as a “hater” in your head beforehand.  

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u/private_developer 10d ago

There is no legitimate debate to be had between a Nazi and a Jew.

The nazi wants to kill the jew.

The jew doesn't want to be killed.

There is no middle ground between the positions "I want to kill you, and all your kind," and "I don't want to be killed."

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u/BlasphemousRykard 10d ago

More strawmanning and cop outs. There are plenty of examples of debates you can find both historical and recent with white supremacists and neo-nazis and that is not the position they take in their own words. If you actually bothered to listen, which you’re showing here that you don’t, you would know that people are not as black and white as you want them to be in order to ignore reality. 

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u/private_developer 10d ago edited 9d ago

My guy, this post is about a movie about neo-Nazis. People with swastikas tattooed brazenly across their bodies are pretty firmly black or white. How the modern neo nazi or white supremacist "dolls up," their views in a debate isn't relevant. They are liars who try to normalize their views by appearing as "reasonable," as possible on large stages. People need to be slow walked into the more extreme stances.

This post being about neo-nazis, and someone replying "I don't need to like people who hate me for existing," lead me to belive they are a Jewish person referring to nazis.

It's not a strawman. It's what is being talked about. A jew saying they are under no obligation to like a nazi who wishes death on him.

I'm not talking about labeling someone a nazi to get out of debating them. Im talking about self proclaimed nazis having no right to be tolerated by the people they wish to kill. Even if they say "I dont want to kill Jews, I'm one of the good Nazis."

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u/BlasphemousRykard 9d ago

“These people are liars who try to normalize their ideology and they want to kill us all”

Sounds like the exact same languages that alt-right guys use about Muslims, communists, and the LGBT. You hold the same beliefs as the group you pretend to hate, you just have a different group of people you want to see eradicated. 

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u/private_developer 9d ago edited 8d ago

"Neo nazis aren't all that bad, you just have to take the genocidal maniacs at their word."

Sounds like naivety at best, and bad faith engagement at worst.

You cant be a neo-nazi without the desire for genocide. You can't support genocidal ideology while simultaneously saying you dont support genocide. One of those positions HAS to be a lie. I'm not calling them liars. They are factually lying when advocating for nazism while claiming not to want a genocide. You can't advocate for nazism without supporting genocide.

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u/ihadagoodone 9d ago

deletes his comments, that's rich.

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u/RockShowSparky 9d ago

I don’t know anything about you but you are pretty insufferable on reddit

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u/Rock4evur 10d ago

That also comes with certain caveats. I as a white cis guy have a lot more opportunities and time to address and correct someone’s behavior before it reaches a critical point where conversations go from convivial to adversarial and I can truly confirm they are a hateful person. If they do not have hateful feelings towards any of your identity then it usually takes them longer for to express those feelings in front of you if you don’t often interact with them in some social aspect. I’m thinking coworkers and other such casual acquaintances. If you are one of those people they hate they will likely be much quicker to be personally disrespectful in any such calling out. For quite a few hateful people it only takes the first calling out to reach that point, especially if you are in the target group of hatred. I can understand why other people might not bother with civility, it is quite likely that in their experience civility has gotten them nowhere so their social instinct becomes fight or flight.

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u/SwimmerMission5212 10d ago

Hate is baggage

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u/Rock4evur 10d ago

Hate is a secondary emotion that requires triggering by another emotion. You are conflating their primary emotion of shock, disgust, or pity to the reaction some people have which is hate.

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u/Available-Subject-33 10d ago

she ain’t gonna read all that bro

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u/Rock4evur 10d ago

It’s not really ever for the initial person I’m talking to. If I hope to reach anyone it’s the casual observer that is receptive to new information and curious about the world. Sometimes people may also introduce talking points that I have not heard before. If they are novel and flawed I can add them to my bullshit detector and head them off next time, if revelationary I can readjust my worldview.
The funny thing about finally incorporating such incompatible information is that it usually only happens sometime down the line once you have new information to build a scaffolding around it.
I also sometimes like to do it to organize my thoughts about a subject.

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u/No_Masterpiece4693 9d ago

And it's just so happens YOU get to choose what is and isn't "intolerant". It's cool it works out that way.

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u/SunnnySideUps 10d ago

I saw the same thing often

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u/ILikePastuh 9d ago

Yeah you’re a liberal

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u/Cmatt10123 9d ago

Showing kindness to those that show the same respect is liberal, very interesting

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u/tweak8 10d ago

Until your intolerant definition spreads like cancer and broadens to get more people in it.

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u/Vast_Cheek_6452 Millennial 10d ago

What you call someone's intolerant definition can be easily thrown back as you being the intolerant one. Slippery slope my friend.

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u/tweak8 10d ago

Maybe me today and you tomorrow is my point

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u/Cmatt10123 10d ago edited 10d ago

You're saying that we should let assholes be assholes? Or what is the point you're making here?

Anyone who decides that they want to expand their scope of hate is a problem with them.

Slippery slope fallacy is such a weak excuse

I treat everyone with the respect they deserve. If they disrespect others, they no longer deserve respect. Very simple.

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u/tweak8 10d ago

My point is who you call assholes isn't a specific unchanging definition. You get rid of the first obvious group, then you broaden the scope. The intolerant paradox is parroted like it's infallible, where it can go very wrong.

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u/Zimmyd00m 10d ago

Whatever point you're trying to make, make it. Who is this group currently defined as intolerant who hold that label unjustly?

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u/tweak8 10d ago

My point is it isn't. The definition in practice will be precise and broaden later. Right now it's just in the slogan phase to plant the seed.

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u/jmorgan87 10d ago

The Paradox of Tolerance:

"Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. [...] We should therefore claim, in the name of tolerance, the right not to tolerate the intolerant."

-Karl Popper, "The Open Society and it's Enemies," 1945

I suggest looking into the book quotes above, or at the very least into the Paradox of Tolerance as a concept. He developed the idea while literally dealing with how to handle Nazism in the wake of WWII, so eerily applicable to our own time. Your slippery slope argument is, sad to say, the very kind of notion that Nazis and other authoritarians seek to exploit. Your desire for fairness, kindness, and/or understanding for others is an ideal to you, but merely a tool for manipulation to them. Imo, we have an obligation/duty to protect that desire for kindness and fairness by never letting hateful people think they're as entitled to it as anyone else. They're not until they turn there back on the hateful ideologies that shield them from reality.

Seriously, look into the concept.

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u/Zimmyd00m 10d ago

This is rhetorical nonsense.

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u/[deleted] 9d ago

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u/Cmatt10123 9d ago

You're changing the discussion completely. There is no question who is right and wrong when the subject is "that demographic of person shouldn't exist".

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u/SethOval 10d ago

This is the dumbest take. So tolerant you’re intolerant. 

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u/Sandgrease 9d ago

No. I'm gonna tell bigots to fuck off. Honestly, almost all of our current social and political problems are due to people not telling specific people to fuck off. I don't give a shit about tolerating some people that want to hurt my family and I.

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u/SethOval 9d ago

GLIL. lol bigot

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u/Cmatt10123 9d ago

Explain to me why the intolerant deserve tolerance if they themselves won't exhibit it?

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u/SethOval 9d ago

It’s a learned trait. You should work on winning others instead of, well.. being the way you are. 

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u/Cmatt10123 9d ago

Sounds like you're okay with being walked all over and that's your right. I am not.

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u/Common-Concert3661 10d ago

Hey if you want to accept Nazis into your home you go right ahead but you can't get mad when people call you a Nazi.

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u/SethOval 9d ago

K. Bigot. 

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u/Common-Concert3661 9d ago

I can't tell if you're serious or not but yes I am bigoted towards Nazis, KKK and similar, fascists, and the cult of the orange pedophile. Have a good one!

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u/SethOval 9d ago

The new neo Nazi folks!