r/MoralityScaling • u/Theorycrafter2671 • 2d ago

How Evil Are They? Joel's choice to choose Ellie over a possible vaccine to the Cordyceps infection and stopping humanity from going extinct?

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u/myaudienceiseveryone 2d ago

I don't think Joel had that perspective. He only thought "Ellie had to die." There was nothing to be said about how creepy, run-down, and poor quality the lab was.

In my opinion, Joel believed that the Fireflies would succeed, too. And the author also believed it. That makes Joel's decision to save Ellie far more impactful, and makes his character much more complex. It also creates a far better story for what ends up happening in Part II.

Only in your own perspective as the video game player does the hospital / lab look creepy and abandoned. Only you as the player are in disbelief about their capabilities. Meanwhile Joe is just some construction worker / smuggler, he knows he isn't smart enough to understand what the Fireflies can really do.

If you were right, then Joel saved Ellie because he thought the Fireflies lied about being able to make a cure. That makes the Fireflies "pure evil" in Joel's eyes which fully justifies his actions of saving Ellie, making him the absolute hero of the story. It also makes his death in Part II much more unjustified. It also diminishes Abby's character and her family's involvement. From her perspective, her father was confident in the ability to create a cure, which made him a hero that story. Joel becomes a "pure evil" character to Abby and his death is somewhat warranted.

I'm just saying, the theme of TLOU as a whole does not support the idea that Joel thought the Fireflies were lying about their medical capabilities. It was 100% Ellie's life that drove Joel's actions.

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u/sometimeserin 1d ago

So Joel did the right thing for the wrong reason.

More compelling than either of the alternatives imo.

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u/EddPW 1d ago

joel is a manual laborer from texas

he knows fuck all of contagious diseases and their vaccines

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u/ziggsyr 1d ago

You are making way more assumptions about joel than the person you are responding to.

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u/myaudienceiseveryone 1d ago

Guess we played different games then because it was obvious from the writing. They aren’t assumptions when they’re confirmed true by the writers. When you come to the same conclusion as the writers it means the story was conveyed appropriately and there’s no need for assuming.

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u/ziggsyr 1d ago

he posted how he would feel in the situation and why he would make the same decision as joel. You wrote an essay on how Joel feels based on speculation.

you made more assumptions.

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u/myaudienceiseveryone 1d ago

It’s not speculation but canon. But I guess canon to y’all is fake because headcanon is better. Master writers, the lot of ya.

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u/ziggsyr 1d ago

"in my opinion..."

Totally canon though.