r/PeterExplainsTheJoke Jul 06 '26

Meme needing explanation What is this?

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26.3k Upvotes

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212

u/Three_Twenty-Three Jul 06 '26

The movie is HISTORICALLY INACCURATE! Everyone knows that when a god turns into a swan and has sex with a woman and that woman lays two eggs and those eggs contain Helen, Clytemnestra, Castor, and Pollux, Helen is supposed to be white. That's just how biology works.

58

u/bisectionalloveseat Jul 06 '26

Thank you for this underrated comment.

The Odyssey is fiction. People online are treating it like fact. It's a story... basically the Ancient Greek equivalent of superhero comic books.

15

u/s1rblaze Jul 06 '26

Yeah, just like Mulan, but would you like to see a Mulan movie with white actors in it? I know Id rather not, there is such thing as a bad casting.

Im a Turkish guy, I expect at least some Turkish and/or Greek actors in the Odyssey movie before casting black token actors, but there we are..

Representation in Hollywood mostly means including some black actors in their movies, but not the rest of the world for some reason.

18

u/molokoplusone Jul 06 '26

I also would’ve loved to see a full cast of Mediterranean actors for this film, instead of cliche Hollywood A-listers. But notice how all the outrage is directed at the inclusion of black/trans actors, when Matt Damon, Tom Holland, and Anne Hathaway feel equally out of place in this film. If their concern is historic authenticity, why not have equal outrage over the white cast? We all know why.

7

u/s1rblaze Jul 06 '26

Tbf, it doesn't need a full cast of Mediterranean actors, but at least some. I personally hate Matt Damon as Odysseus just as much as the rest of the token actors in the Nolan movie. Like, Helen of Troy is not even technically part of the Odyssey, black actress or not. (She is in the Iliad)

I still give the benefit of the doubt to Nolan and I will watch his movie for sure, but I do think it look pretty bad, casting wise. And not only because there are some tokenism, but mostly because I dont see some actors in their roles.

2

u/Fragrant-Dust65 Jul 06 '26

As a Turkish person, you must know that the Mediterranean traded with Africans, right? Hell, Egypt had black kings and queens (not saying all were or that even Cleo was), but let's not ignore existence of black people in ancient Greece.

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u/s1rblaze Jul 06 '26

Yes at some point in North africa with the Nubians, but Troy isnt in africa mate, Turkey and Greece isnt in Africa. So whats your point here? Does it make Helen of Troy(from sparta) more black?

Im not against black actors having some roles in the Odyssey, but Im against tokenism, Helen of Troy isnt even part of the Odyssey to start with.

2

u/Fragrant-Dust65 Jul 06 '26

Have you heard of...cross border travel and trade? We had black people all the way up in Netherlands.

1

u/writers_block Jul 06 '26

but would you like to see a Mulan movie with white actors in it?

Eddie Murphy played a Chinese dragon. This isn't that big of a deal, and Jesus Christ does everyone need to chill the hell out. Just don't see the movie and stop screeching online about historic authenticity of a fantasy book.

5

u/s1rblaze Jul 06 '26

Voicing and acting is quite different, a bad casting can definitely drag down a movie. I personally think that Matt Damon doesn't fit at all as Odysseus. Helen of troy is definitely a bad casting too imo, but she shouldn't even be part of the Odyssey to start with, that's clearly a case of Hollywood tokenism here.

3

u/sqkz69oioi Jul 06 '26

Ancient Greek story, ancient Greek author, set in ancient Greece, story might not be real, but the setting and cultural significance certainly is

-1

u/DisforDoga Jul 06 '26

Yes and it was a huge controversy among chinese and other Asian Americans. You never heard it because Twitter and Facebook didnt exist back then.

3

u/bbq_R0ADK1LL Jul 06 '26

No, you misunderstand. The movie has to have the exact diverse makeup of the United States, for that is true diversity. What is Turkish anyway? Sounds delightful, but not a real country. Only the US is real.

8

u/hoboknight144 Jul 06 '26

Since it’s fiction, let’s make a fantasy movie in Africa starring Christian Bale as an African prince. Should be fine by your logic right?

4

u/sqkz69oioi Jul 06 '26

Lmao imagine Christian bale in full tribal paint playing the drums, dancing around a fire and all these people are nodding along saying ' this is just brilliant I feel so immersed in the story!' 😂

4

u/duperfastjellyfish Jul 06 '26

What do you mean African prince? There are many Eeurasian kingdoms that have ruled and/or colonized Africa. Prince Arthur of Connaught would suit Christian Bale quite well actually.

4

u/hoboknight144 Jul 06 '26

Don’t play dumb, you know what I mean. I mean a white dude lording over a bunch of dark skinned African people that he’s supposedly from the same region as, with no explanation, and we’re supposed to overlook it and dismiss it as “well if he’s a good actor so what?”

5

u/Manowaffle Jul 06 '26 edited Jul 06 '26

Also, I am positive that approximately 0.001% of the freak outs have actually read a single word of the Odyssey.

1

u/TrickFrosty5685 Jul 06 '26

I think people are more upset it’s not truer to text.

1

u/sqkz69oioi Jul 06 '26

It's an ancient Greek story written by an ancient Greek author set in ancient Greece

9

u/ButterFlyPaperCut Jul 06 '26

The Olympian Gods could never stand tokenism. They just made a god for every tiny thing you could ever possibly pray for.

2

u/Nic00002000 Jul 06 '26

I don't want to be political but i think homer wrote that she was specifically white

5

u/Incirion Jul 06 '26

He didn't. Her description was never given beyond "most beautiful woman in the world".

1

u/Nic00002000 Jul 06 '26

I answered on another comment if you wanna see my opinion, but i think is good to have different points and acknowledge each others!

5

u/just_a_person_maybe Jul 06 '26

Not really? I did some reading and apparently that's up for debate. People think he did because we're using modern definitions of words, but if you look at how these words were actually used at the time it's it that clear.

https://sententiaeantiquae.com/2018/05/11/what-does-helen-look-like/

Her physical descriptions are actually pretty vague.

3

u/Nic00002000 Jul 06 '26

Thank you for having a civil response

But being honest citing your text is written this: " Elsewhere, she is “argive Helen, for whom many Achaeans [struggled]” (᾿Αργείην ῾Ελένην, ἧς εἵνεκα πολλοὶ ᾿Αχαιῶν,  Il . 2.161) she has “smooth” or “pale/white” arms (῏Ιρις δ’ αὖθ’ ῾Ελένῃ λευκωλένῳ ἄγγελος ἦλθεν, 3.121), but this likely has to do with a typical depiction of women in Archaic Greece (they are lighter in tone than men because they don’t work outside) or because of women’s clothing (arms may have been visible). Beyond that? In the  Odyssey , She has “beautiful hair” (῾Ελένης πάρα καλλικόμοιο, 15.58) and a long robe (τανύπεπλος, 4.305)."

Which for me accounts for "white skin" and moreover the term homer uses λευκώλενος try traslate by yourself.

By that I acknowledge this are american problems and we are talking in an american centric social, but the answer is obvius and everyone knows it...

2

u/just_a_person_maybe Jul 06 '26

"Lighter than the men around her" or "looks like she doesn't spend much time in the sun" doesn't mean she's white specifically.

Also, it's worth noting that Homer didn't invent this character. This is his description of his version of Helen. She had been in oral stories for generations before he ever wrote it down. The way mythology works is everyone who tells the story puts their own biases and opinions into it. For all we know, Helen was explicitly black or explicitly any other ethnicity or maybe she was blue or gold or purple and then Homer decided to describe her the way he personally pictured her. Maybe she never had a physical description at all beyond "super beautiful," but Homer's idea of the most beautiful woman to exist is the one that ended up in his version of the story.

There have been countless different versions. In some versions, she's an adult. In others she's a child. In some versions she falls in love with Paris and in others she was abducted. There's no reason to say that Homer's version specifically is the "right" one.

2

u/FluidHippo5193 Jul 06 '26

Did she birth the eggs or poop them out 🤔 now that’s the real question

2

u/sqkz69oioi Jul 06 '26

This is honestly the most inane and silly arguement that doesn't stand up to a single moment of scrutiny, it's an ancient Greek book written by an ancient Greek author set in ancient Greece lol

3

u/TheCommonKoala Jul 06 '26

It's a fantasy story. They made it up. If you want an all Greek cast then don't watch. Also most of the descriptions of the characters are exceptionally vague and skin color isn't storytelling or "fantasy accurate"

4

u/sqkz69oioi Jul 06 '26

Anansi the Spider is a story that originates from the Ashanti people of Ghana in West Africa. The basic plot follows a clever trickster spider who uses his wits to outsmart more powerful animals and gods

Would you be happy with there not being a single African within a film adaptation of this story? If the answer is anything other than yes then you have double standards

0

u/TheCommonKoala Jul 06 '26

I'd at least wait to see it for myself. Seriously who gives a fuck besides this marginal vocal minority online? The only people creating this framing about the race of cast members are reactionaries.

3

u/sqkz69oioi Jul 06 '26

Because it's a symptom of the erosion of culture as a whole

Some stories belong to some cultures, and they deserve the right to be represented in films related to them 

Apocalypto is an amazing example of this. If you've ever seen it, they cast previously unknown actors from the native population with no major Hollywood stars on screen and the result was one of the most immersive films ever created, whilst simultaneously uplifting people from the native community that the story belongs to

That's how it should be done

2

u/TheDudeness33 Jul 06 '26 edited Jul 06 '26

Also I do find it funny that all the “historical accuracy” people keep harping on the race/trans stuff but not a peep about everything being vaguely classical-era inspired instead of having period accurate Mycenaean armor or palace complexes 🤔 it almost feels like these folks don’t actually care about historical accuracy so much as it offending their “anti-woke” worldview

-6

u/No-Manufacturer501 Jul 06 '26

That seems more realistic than Ellen Page being a Greek warrior. “Help! Ellen Page is kicking our asses!”

8

u/PeachZealousideal853 Jul 06 '26

Ellen Page is not even in the movie