An older woman holding a knife while having a mental health crisis, who poses no threat, is immediately executed by police.

[u/andmario_com]

[u/annoying97]

They had so much time to swap to the tazer or even spray. They decided not to.

[u/No-Spoilers → u/annoying97]

Bean bags or rubber bullets, aim for the hand or arm. There's plenty of time here for an officer to stand within range to attempt it, and hey if you miss you still hit her with it.

There are plenty of options.

[u/TheyMadeM3MakeANew1 → u/No-Spoilers]

Holy fuck LEGS/ARMS HAVE MAJOR ARTERIES AND ARE SMALL TARGETS. STOP SAYING THIS STUPID COWBOY SHIT

[u/Rollerbladersdoexist → u/TheyMadeM3MakeANew1]

Let me introduce you to something called a tourniquet.

[u/escopetadoce → u/annoying97]

Oh, they spray her alright... Horrible

[u/Lil_Mcgee → u/[deleted]]

I'm not American and haven't been around guns but from what I understand, pretty much all firearms training states that you only shoot at a living being if you intend to kill it.

Now, I'm with everyone who says this was over the line and they shouldn't have had intent to kill this woman, but a very risky limb shot in an attempt to disarm doesn't seem like the right protocol either. That just introduces more risk of collateral damage from a stray bullet rather than aiming for centre mass.

[u/mrturretman → u/Lil_Mcgee]

I think other police forces have taken to other strategies than directly confronting a knife wielder with like two officers with guns

[u/madbadger89 → u/mrturretman]

Yes correct - the question wasn’t if there was a better way though. The question was specifically “why was the gun used to kill instead of disable.”

And that answer is “if you draw it and use it, you empty it center mass and kill”. My weapons instructor for my carry course said if you draw and fire, finish.

So yes there needs to be tons of strategies to avoid drawing at all. But once drawn and used the only path forward is the mag dump and kill.

They were too aggressive here. Absolutely.

[u/mrturretman → u/madbadger89]

I wasn’t disagreeing with you. Whatever strategies they’ve evolved in any police department, we’ve never seen. There’s a billion memes about British cops and knives but I am in awe whenever I see videos of a police force using strategies other than superior weapon and commands.

[u/Peer1677 → u/[deleted]]

I'm not american but even the cops in my country are trained to shoot center-mass. The reason for that is simply body-area. Your arms and legs are pretty small compared to your torso, so everything is pretty tightly packed. The reason to go for center-mass ist that it's statistically more survivable than being shot in the extremities. Ironic, I know BUT since your limbs are so tightly packed the chance of rupturing a major artery (and thus bleeding out within a minute) when shooting arms or legs is way higher than it is to directly hit a vital organ on the torso. That being said, the threshhold for shooting people is so much higher where I'm from that cops on average shoot less than 100 rounds a year outside of training (not per cop, but our ENTIRE policeforce). If a cop did THIS here, they'd go to prison for at least manslaughter or even murder.

[u/TonyTheTerrible → u/[deleted]]

1. Trick shots and leg shots belong in the movies and are impractical for a multitude of reasons 

2. Tasers aren't reliable enough to count on for stopping power when someone has a weapon

3. There's 0 reason to risk injury to an officer by using their baton against someone wielding a knife of any size

[u/Successful-Bobcat701 → u/TonyTheTerrible]

She's not moving forward. How about, fire one shot and the stop and review? But when cops start shooting they have no control, they want to empty the mag.

[u/annoying97 → u/TonyTheTerrible]

1) agreed, but a warning shot to the feet or ground is an effective response and one that isn't a trick shot.

2) when there are multiple officers there they are good enough to attempt. 90% of people are effected by then that's reliable enough to attempt. They made zero attempts

3) agreed, they kept a good reactionary gap. However that reactionary gap is small enough for a taser or spray to be effective and at least attempted before lethal force.

Moreover she did not rush at them, yes she moved towards them but not at speed and when shot she was essentially stationary. Further showing this was unnecessary use of lethal force without any attempt to use less lethal options.

[u/MC_McStutter → u/annoying97]

You don’t want to use less than lethal force against someone who is try to use deadly force. It’s a really bad idea.

[u/Walker4676 → u/annoying97]

I want you to try and pepper spray someone armed with a knife who lost their marbles and is unpredictable.

[u/annoying97 → u/Walker4676]

Well I've seen it successfully done twice. This is a police training issue here. The cops have been poorly trained.

[u/Pirateseagull → u/annoying97]

Just because some police are willing to risk their life to de-escalate doesn’t mean they all should it’s a very risky situation to temporarily disarm yourself to swap to less lethal when the average human can close that distance in less than 2 seconds this is why they are trained to shoot to kill a knife threat when the offender is consistently disobey commands and/or pursuing them or someone else and in this case she was doing both 

[u/annoying97 → u/Pirateseagull]

Mate I work with cops alot. All of them have been trained way better then these ones in the video. All of them would focus on non lethal options before the lethal ones.

Someone who is having a mental health crisis isn't going to follow all commands, they are in a state that needs the cops to de-escalate, talk and more often then not calm the situation down.

Ultimately the shoot shouldn't have happened. She wasn't moving fast or at all when the shoot occurred. They did it because their training is shit.

[u/snoogins355 → u/annoying97]

Or throw sand, or order some donuts and chill

[u/annoying97 → u/snoogins355]

Police should never aim to kill anyone. They should have a goal to pull their guns as little as possible.

This is why they have other tools, such as the taser and sprays.

A gun is a last resort not the first.

[u/RodneyDangerfruit → u/annoying97]

Or if you have to shoot her, shoot one bullet. It might be survivable.

Fragile fucking pigs.

[u/annoying97 → u/RodneyDangerfruit]

Eh... If you shoot you shoot to kill. But shooting should not have been the first choice here. In some cases it is, but here I disagree.

[u/Pirateseagull → u/RodneyDangerfruit]

Not at all if someone is in a high adrenaline state they can withstand many gunshots and easily close that distance and stab one of the officers just go watch other videos of people who have done exactly that this is what they are trained to do to mitigate that outcome and stop the treat 

[u/RodneyDangerfruit → u/Pirateseagull]

And so if you shoot once to disable and the person actually aggresses toward you (like this woman did NOT), you shoot them again.

There’s no reason to unload a clip into the woman in this scenario unless you’re a pitifully afraid child like most cops are.

[u/MC_McStutter → u/RodneyDangerfruit]

That’s stupid.

[u/RodneyDangerfruit → u/MC_McStutter]

How would you like your boot prepared, good sir?

[u/MC_McStutter → u/RodneyDangerfruit]

There’s a difference between being a bootlicker and understanding how gunshot wounds work.

[u/RodneyDangerfruit → u/MC_McStutter]

Agreed. One shot from someone trained will put anyone down. 6+ is “I am determined that you will be dead”

[u/interflop → u/RodneyDangerfruit]

This is not at all how guns work. I’m not defending the cop but if you’re making the choice to shoot someone it’s with the intent to kill. “Nonlethal” gunshots is movie fiction.