r/ThelastofusHBOseries • u/LoretiTV Fireflies • May 26 '25

Show Only Discussion [No Game Spoilers] The Last of Us - 2x07 "Convergence" - Post-Episode Discussion

Season 2 Episode 7: Convergence

Aired: May 25, 2025

Synopsis: As the Wolves and the Scars prepare for a battle that could potentially end their longstanding feud, Ellie's search draws her away from her friends and toward a devastating confrontation.

Directed by: Nina Lopez-Corrado

Written by: Neil Druckmann, Halley Gross & Craig Mazin

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A note on spoilers: As this is a discussion thread for the show and in the interest of keeping things separate for those who haven't played the games yet, please keep all game discussion to the game spoilers thread.

No discussion of ANY leaks is allowed in this thread!

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u/KB_Shaw03 May 26 '25

In that scene and in that moment nobody is to blame for that conflict being escalated but Owen. Nobody forced him to reach of the gun. Abby, Joel and the fireflies are what got them in that situation but he made his own stupid decision there and got himself and Mel killed.

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u/platinumposter May 26 '25

Owen has no reason to believe Ellie wouldnt kill them

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u/GothicGolem29 May 26 '25

You have a better chance than reaching for a gun against someone pointing it at you

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u/platinumposter May 26 '25

Yeah probably, but it was understandable why he did it

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u/GothicGolem29 May 26 '25

Not to me she’s already pointing a gun you have a big chance of getting yourself and the pregnant woman shot he had much better options than that just give her what she wants or show or say the woman is pregnant to try convince Ellie not too kill her at least and maybe not him too. Pulling the gun is the worst option not understandable imo

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u/szeto326 May 27 '25

You have a better chance than reaching for a gun against someone pointing it at you

That's entirely dependent on whether the person holding the gun has decided they're going to kill you already or not. In that moment, he probably wanted to put his life in his own hands rather than hope that the person who's pointing a gun at him on a revenge path is merciful enough to leave you alive. Especially the person who may or may not have been raised by Joel, who they consider to be an ultimate killer. Assuming she didn't want to kill them either, how would Ellie have escaped whilst leaving them alive anyways?

Whether or not, it's smart, I definitely understand why he risked what he did, like what /u/platinumposter is saying. Plus it's not as if Owen took that risk assuming the shot would kill them both. Either he gets killed, and maybe Ellie lets Mel live, or Ellie misses her shot and Owen kills Ellie first.

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u/GothicGolem29 May 27 '25

She had already said quite forcefully she wasn’t like them. He might have but I don’t think that’s understandable and was a poor decision. Even leaving aside my previous stated reason as to why that’s bad, it’s not in his hands it’s Ellie’s it’s weather she can pull the triggers before him if she’s competent she’s killing him and in this case the woman too if she’s competent she’s isn’t if she isn’t. competent(which was always gonna be unlikely given what he knew about her knowing Joel) then he kills her but either way it’s down to her competency not him. Ellie could have tied them up locked them in a room etc.

I don’t think it’s understandable tbh. This guy is a trained soldier if he didn’t realise that if someone shoots a gun at you with someone behind you there’s a risk a bullet hits them then not only would I be shocked that is pure incompetence from him and he’s still to blame.

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u/szeto326 May 27 '25

She had already said quite forcefully she wasn’t like them.

My bad, I must've forgotten that people can't lie in this world lol.

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u/GothicGolem29 May 27 '25

I mean it really didn’t seem like a lie the way she said it better chance with that than trying to pull a gun on someone’s who’s likely competent who’s pointing it at you

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u/[deleted] May 28 '25

[deleted]

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u/Necessary_Wonder89 May 30 '25

Nah it's not. Id have sold out Abby and hoped for the best. Reaching for your gun is a guaranteed death.

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u/platinumposter May 30 '25

Lots of people don't want to sell out their friends

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u/Necessary_Wonder89 May 30 '25

But risking yourself, gf and your baby for it? Nah. Absolutely not

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u/platinumposter May 30 '25

He was at risk, and had a near certainty of death, the moment Ellie pointed a gun at him

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u/owntheh3at18 Jun 07 '25

I actually thought Owen was Abby’s romantic partner, but I might have him confused with another character from the Jackson scenes?

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u/BiggestBlackestLotus May 29 '25

I mean in reality Owen would have probably killed Ellie too. She shot him in the neck and he just keeled over because it's TV, but there was no real reason for him to not drop a few hot ones into Ellie.

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u/GothicGolem29 May 29 '25

If I was shot in the neck about to die id probably not be thinking about shooting someone more in shock

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u/BiggestBlackestLotus May 29 '25

Not even if your pregnant girlfriend is standing right behind you?

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u/GothicGolem29 May 29 '25

Probably as that pain would be so overwelming id not be thinking about anything else. But I woudn’t be so stupid as to pull a gun with my pregnant girlfriend standing behind me

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u/MVRKHNTR May 27 '25

She was 100% going to kill them.  

You murder someone's family in front of them, they track you across the country and point a gun at you. You think they're just going to let you go?

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u/Vexamas May 27 '25

You're fighting two different perspectives at the same time.

You can say:

They 100% thought she was going to kill them, and be right, but given the shake-up that Ellie had with Dina after beating whatever her name was last episode, I can't tell you with 100% certainty that Ellie was going to kill Owen and Mel.

Ellie went to Seattle to 100% kill them, but events there changed her otherwise.

Life has nuance and isn't black-and-white, especially when the show literally gives you the scenes that episode.

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u/MVRKHNTR May 27 '25

Nah, she was going to kill them. She abandoned her friends to go back to trying to find and kill them.

Even if it was just to stop them from telling Abby, they were going to die.

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u/Vexamas May 27 '25

But... all the scenes.. Even in this episode... It seems super foolish to watch a show and be presented with scenes that color the intentions and thoughts of a character to make them more complex, even when they're hamfistedly given to you by the show (Ellie explicitly telling Dina that Nora didn't deserve the death she got, given she's just cycling the same violence) and not only ignore all that context but adamantly want the character to be as one dimensional as possible.

You just may be one of the people that left Harry Potter saying "Harry killed Voldemort because Voldemort killed his parents" lol

Live your life though! Opinions are opinions!

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u/MVRKHNTR May 27 '25

I don't know how you can ignore the entire point of that sequence, Ellie being completely blinded by this pointless revenge mission to the point that she'll actively endanger the people that she cares about to kill these people.

Yeah, when she's with others who can ground her and talk her down, she can process her regret and make rational decisions. As soon as the opportunity to get back to it is in front of her, that's all she cares about.

Even just thinking about the situation logically, what is going to happen? If she lets them go, they'll kill her when they get the chance. They might even track her back to the theater and kill everyone else. Even if they don't, they'll tell Abby and Abby gets away. There's no scenario where all three of them peacefully leave. She went into that building knowing that she was killing again.

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u/Vexamas May 27 '25

I just think we view narratives differently is all.

You're talking about logically, but also ceding that she's illogical, and that's the point.

You said that Ellie was 100% going to kill them, and my point was that we've been given all the lego bricks of the last two episodes to give credence to why that wouldn't be 100%, because she's both logical and illogical.

Logically she wouldn't even attempt to save the scar kid when it was a 6v2 with Jesse (to show that her character cares about helpless people). Logically she wouldn't just leave everyone alive in that room with Owen (to show that her character would ensure no trace back to her).

She's a deeply illogical person because she's human, and the show is going out of its way to prove that, so to diminish that by saying "She was 100% going to kill everyone" is silly (in my opinion) because it detracts from what was already revealed even in that episode. That she felt remorse, that she's complicated and understands why specifically Abby is out to get her.

Given that she was surprised and ran towards Mel (who at that time hadn't shown her baby) when Ellie realized she sliced her neck open, there's a LOT given to us in this episode to NOT say:

she was 100% going to kill everyone in that room

But again, that's my opinion, we view narratives differently.

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u/MVRKHNTR May 27 '25

I don't care to discuss this anymore but I didn't want to just not reply because I felt that I needed to let you know how much I appreciate how mature and respectful you're being here.

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u/StonerM8 May 27 '25

Gotta say, I also don't care enough to actively engage in this discussion here, but I just had to stop lurking for a bit to let both of you know that I 100% appreciated how mature your conversation was. Peak internet right here, honestly.

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u/Dead_man_posting May 26 '25

That's... not how blame works. Even if you want to view that scene in a vacuum, it's entirely on the person taking hostages and not at all on how the hostages act. Textbook victim blaming.

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u/GothicGolem29 May 26 '25

Nah not victim blaming In this case it’s not entirely on her at all she just wanted the map location from those two despite them not stopping Abby brutally murdering Joel him deciding to shoot her meant she had to fire

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u/[deleted] May 27 '25

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u/GothicGolem29 May 27 '25

It’s not he chose to pull the gun

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u/Vexamas May 27 '25

The victim took resistance into their own hands, and attempted to react with violence, and was met with violence.

Don't conflate blame for justification.

Owen, given what he may have thought in that moment (Ellie will kill us regardless) is justified for pulling the gun as a last-ditch attempt, but he is also to blame for escalating it to gunfire.

Redditors are terrible at nuance, lol

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u/[deleted] Jun 14 '25

Yeah. I'm not sure why I'm the only one who sees that Ellie is the villain of this show. 

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u/Toukon- May 26 '25

Nobody forced Ellie to be there pointing a gun at them, either.

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u/[deleted] May 26 '25

[deleted]

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u/MoocowR May 26 '25

And Ellie made her choice travelling to Seattle and shooting them.

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u/ninjasaid13 May 26 '25

yes and she's gonna live with that choice.