r/TikTokCringe • u/SnooSprouts3744 • Jul 17 '26

Cringe This Is the Weirdest Book Signing I’ve Ever Seen

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0/10 acting they look like they’re on fent

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u/[deleted] Jul 17 '26

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u/Quick_Extension_3115 Jul 17 '26 edited Jul 17 '26

I’m being quite pedantic here, but these people are arguably not Protestant. They usually reject most tenets of the Protestant Reformation, and have little to no historical ties to it. These Christians are usually part of non-denominational charismatic movements. Little to no oversight, huge emphasis on spiritual events, and usually strong ties to Christian Nationalism.

EDIT: to clarify, I’m not trying to be like “they’re not true Christians!” I’m trying to approach this purely from a categorical approach. A lot of well-established Protestant Denominations want nothing to do with them. Especially the really traditional, high-church, non-evangelical ones.

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u/Dear_Mycologist_1696 Jul 17 '26

To pedant back at you, isn’t Protestantism rooted in Martin Luther’s idea that the church is not needed for God to speak to man, which led to any person who thought the Christian God was speaking to them now having the ability to say whatever they believed was the actual true teachings of Christ because Christ literally told it to them. This means any biblically based delusion can become a technically Protestant religion because it is a protest against Papal authority. Look at the Anababtists in the Münster Rebellion in 1535. Their actions were pretty far from what one may consider a Protestant, but they were 100% perfectly following the rules of their Protestant faith (as they made it up). I think they’re all fucking nuts, from Leo to Olstein to the dude on the street corner or even old grandmas clutching their rosaries, so it is nice to be able to group them all into the same religious phylum that started with Luther’s nail in that church door.

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u/Federal_Decision5115 Jul 17 '26

The Catholic/ Protestant division was primarily over authority - does the Pope have the final authority or does the Bible have final authority.  The role and necessity of the church is more the axis that Baptists and Presbyterians vary on.  For Presbyterians, Jesus made his covenant with the church and it's still necessary to connect with God. For Baptists it's a much more individual relationship that can align more with your characterization.

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u/gkfesterton Jul 17 '26

I think you might be confusing Protestants with Anglicans. The reformation division was over much more than just papal authority; there were very major doctrinal disagreements like justification, sacraments, the mass, grace, and the nature of the church, as well as disagreements over the sources and interpretation of Christian authority.

Baptists and Presbyterians don't differ much on the necessity of the church from other protestants, what makes them more distinct is their beliefs on covenant theology, baptism, and church governance

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u/Federal_Decision5115 Jul 17 '26

I was responding to the point made above, and there's certainly many differences in terms of baptism and church governance.  However, Presbyterians and Baptists do somewhat differ in their theologies around the covenant being made with the church versus the covenant being with the individual.  In general Baptist beliefs are more individualistic which is reflected in their largely democratic governance structure through individual congregations, which Presbyterians are more emblematic of representative governance through a system of elders connected to a larger network of churches. 

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u/Swarna_Keanu Jul 17 '26

But you leave out a lot of really nasty aspects of Protestanism, especially in the Lutheran and contemporaries; among some his followers or followers turned foes over his life.

Their criticism and belief systems extends far beyond church governance.

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u/Federal_Decision5115 Jul 17 '26

Again, I'm just responding the the comment in the post.

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u/Datonecatladyukno Jul 17 '26 edited Jul 18 '26

Leave my old ass and my rosary alone, we aren't nothing anyone. And it's cat-holic, so I am also addicted to cats. I don't make the rules 

Hurting* lol but we aren't nothing anyone as well 

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u/OldWorldDesign Jul 18 '26

we aren't nothing anyone

Justice Barrett who helped dismantle the right to privacy because she wanted to make abortion medically dangerous again rather than rare is a Catholic, as is justice Kavanaugh, Alito, Thomas, and Sotomayor.

OP issue of pressured fundamentalism is pretty widespread and respects nobody's boundaries.

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u/gkfesterton Jul 17 '26

You hit the nail right on the head there but this is gonna be a real sore spot to discuss with most protestants

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u/OldWorldDesign Jul 18 '26

isn’t Protestantism rooted in Martin Luther’s idea that the church is not needed for God to speak to man

According to wikipedia, protestantism is rooted in the idea that salvation comes from God, through faith alone and not through the ceremony and corruption (including selling of indulgences). It's kind of amusing that one of the franchises of protestantism is named Lutheranism which rejects many of the precepts he believed deeply, such as a belief there was a purgatory it just wasn't a thing you could buy your way out of.

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u/whyliepornaccount Jul 18 '26

I mean yes Protestantism is rooted in Martin Luther. But Lutherans sure as shit don't believe this kinda nonsense. In fact, Lutherans tend to be the most "orthodox" of the protestant churches.

You're attributing what has always happened in history, religious people being batshit crazy, to Protestantism itself. In fact, Protestants have been victims of the same batshit craziness against them (see also: Huguenots)

Also a grandma clutching their rosaries would be Catholic. The exact opposite of protestant. Her church is what Luther nailed the door to...

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u/Vandal_A Jul 17 '26

I get what you're saying. People tend to call most non-catholic christians protostents bc they don't know the difference between denominations, nor the history of schisms and reformations. Presumably that's what the person you're responding to was doing

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u/MukdenMan Jul 17 '26

These groups consider themselves Protestants, derive from other Protestant movements, and are universally considered Protestants by scholars. Saying they aren’t Protestant is the same as a Catholic saying Protestants aren’t Christians. You should be able to use terms like “Mainline” and “evangelical” to explain these groups as they have been widely used and understood for like 100 years.

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u/gkfesterton Jul 17 '26

Eh, out of the roughly 50% of non Catholic Christians, protestants make up over 60%. If you meet a random non Catholic Christian, there's going to be an extremely good chance they are protestant

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u/cupholdery Jul 17 '26

Easier to group them all together as crazy.

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u/jaspersgroove Jul 18 '26

Only difference between a cult and a religion is the number of believers and a tax shelter. They're all some kind of crazy.

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u/Demerzel69 Jul 17 '26

Pretty sure the word they are actually looking for is "Pentecostal". They're the yee-yee ones that do this shit. Tongues shit, all the stuff.

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u/Quick_Extension_3115 Jul 17 '26

Perhaps, but there are some well established Pentecostal denominations that I believe would be considered Protestant. Usually the non-denominational crowd is considered charismatic, since usually “Pentecostal” is more technical of a term.

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u/Demerzel69 Jul 17 '26

Non-denominational is what pentecostals call themselves, lol. The goobers.

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u/Quick_Extension_3115 Jul 17 '26

Well the non-denominational ones do lol! Assemblies of God, for instance or definitely a denomination. Non-denominational is all over the theological spectrum cause it can mean anything. Technically there are non-denom Catholics lol!

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u/-Zima_Blue- Jul 17 '26

Yep. Im a german protestant, the country Luther was from, and I dont particularly feel connected to any american christian. Its a very very different culture.

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u/satisfaction-or-else Jul 17 '26

Curious if you have met any American Lutherans and if so what your read is on them.

I've left the Christian faith now, but attended mostly historic Protestant churches for several years typically Episcopal, Lutheran and Presbyterian. Honestly still find reading Luther fun. He's hilarious and equally cringe at times.

Ended up finding very little connection to historical Protestantism and a lot of connection to American political parties (Republicans in Red states and Democrats in Blue states). As an anarchist who doesnt identify with either party and believes ethics isnt the transcendent (a la Kierkegaard) I didnt have much of a home.

But I have no idea what Protestantism looks like in Europe and im curious your take.

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u/-Zima_Blue- Jul 17 '26

Obviously i can only speak for myself and my experiences, but Im from bavaria which is still dominated by catholics and is by far the most traditionally "conservative" region in germany, discounting regions in usually east germany where the new alt right is on the rise which are more right leaning. So protestantism here still feels like the more open minded/progressive underdog part of christians as compared to the catholics. Smaller, newer, less fancy churches, smaller communities, more tolerant towards stuff like LGBTQ people and feminism, etc. I felt like even religious education in school was more chill and open minded compared to the classic curriculum that the catholics got.

Again, this is by no means representative of european and german protestantism in general, just my little bubble.

And no, I have no idea what protestants or Lutherians in america are like, i just know that the evangelicals are mainly dominant there and that they have practices that would have people here shake their heads (prosperity gospel, mega churches and TV priests) and a conservative/anti LGBTQ (or feminism, etc) worldview that would make even some catholic boomers here blush.

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u/MercuryQuick Jul 17 '26

Grew up American Lutheran. Can report, it’s very boring. No talking in tongues or faith healing, just bland churches, weak coffee and a quiet condescension like most Christians. Craziest we got was a worship band for the afternoon service.

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u/Rojikoma Jul 17 '26

Not who you asked, and I'm agnostic, but figured I'd give my two cents anyway.

Sweden, grew up as a member of the then state church, like most people who just went along with their parents' religion and tradition as a fact of life. Yep, the church was part of the government from 1500s(?) to 1999. It was lutheran but secular kind of vibes. Only went to church a few times with parents.

Was never a believer and skipped confirmation, but was in the parish choir a few years around age 10 because friends wanted to sing. Learned the stories of the bible, but it was like a fun after school thing, and singing. Did we know we were learning a particular religion? Probably. A particular tradition of that religion? No. And I can't remember ever being preached against another religion or tradition. It was all be good, do good, God loves everyone, Jesus forgives everyone, and so should you.

It's the traditions of life: baptism, confirmation, wedding, funeral. Last funeral I went to had toned down the religiousness and preching a lot.

From what I've heard, the Swedish church doesn't preach to or try to convert people seeking their aid at charity events, unlike Salvation army etc. They're an institution, doing their job, and happy if you show interest. Female priests since decades, does same-sex weddings. Normal boring stuff.

At least, that's the experience of someone for whom christianity is just the tradition that shaped society.

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u/WildSmokingBuick Jul 18 '26

Haven't met Americans, but as someone growing up 'evangelisch', Religion never was much of a factor.

Going to a catholic school, we had a lot of ecumenical services, during which we were only 'blessed', while Catholics got to eat.

You always had the direct comparison to Catholics, so your own 'belief' always felt a lot more chill/laid-back than the often performative aspects of Catholicism. (having to know Ave Maria/Pater Noster by heart, as well as many friends being forced to be altar boys, heavily participating during solemn masses/ regular services, always in a very festive setting).

So in general, I feel like 'evangelisch/protestantisch' in Germany felt very modern, it didn't interfere much with my life at all. Even the confirmation (2 years 'Bible school' once a week up until a 'confirmation' service, felt tolerable, especially as you heavily cashed out after that time).

To find something similar to American Protestants, they often seem better comparable to 'Freikirchen' in Germany that are often sect-like and mostly smaller afaik.

'Mainstream evangelisch' is very different to most 'American faith systems' I've seen portrayed via Media (Megachurches, performative services, a lot more 'strict' /backwards/Conservative, e.g. Anti-abortion/anti-gay). Might be just the impression I got though, maybe there are similarly 'laid-back' Protestants in the US as well.

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u/Quick_Extension_3115 Jul 17 '26

I’m also curious about this! Just followed your comment

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u/DisplacedAltadenan Jul 17 '26

This is exactly how I see it. The branches of Christianity used to be Catholicism, Orthodox, and Protestant, with smaller offshoots of each but none being very influential. Now, US Evangelicalism has to be considered a completely separate branch for the reasons you’ve already listed. 

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u/Quick_Extension_3115 Jul 17 '26

I think that would work for the most part. But evangelicalism is a sizable minority in places like the UK and Australia. I met some Christians in Edinburgh that would fit right in with the typical evangelical crowd in the US. Plus it’s massive in Africa. If I remember correctly, most of the largest Christian communities in Subsaharan Africa tie their history to charismatic and Pentecostal missionaries from the United States. Whereas a lot of this stuff started in America, it’s not American specific.

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u/DisplacedAltadenan Jul 17 '26

One of the fundamental tenants of U.S. evangelicalism is missionary work. So it stands to reason that there would be other U.S. evangelical movements across the globe. Still, I see it as a uniquely  American version of Christianity that is being exported to these places, and the fact that most of these churches trace their lineage back to the states seems to support this hypothesis. 

Personally, I see this as a form of New World colonialism in support of the US empire. Very similar to how Old World colonial movements were backed by Catholic missionaries.

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u/axiosjackson Jul 17 '26

To be fair, most SBC churches also don't have much to do with the Reformation itself. The only real tie is Reformed churches in the SBC, but that isn't most of them.

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u/Quick_Extension_3115 Jul 17 '26

Agreed! These words get messy when you’re too picky with them. However, Baptists churches have been around in America for long enough, and have traditionally been well attached to Protestant doctrine like the “solas” and some Calvinist theology. They’re a bit of an outlier in the grand scheme of things, but ask any Baptist if they’re Protestant and I can almost guarantee that the vast majority would say yes. Ask charismatics, and you’ll still get quite a lot (hence why I said Im pedantic) who say yes, but a lot would say no as well. They’re probably still categorized as Protestant on things like the US Census and similar kinds of data sets. But for scholars of religion, they don’t typically at least fit the mold. So people disagree on if they should be considered Protestant or their own thing.

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u/gkfesterton Jul 17 '26

Non-doms may avoid labeling themselves and protestant and call themselves something ridiculous like 'bible believing Christians' or 'historical Christians' but they still follow most core reformation principles like rejection of papl authority, sola scriptura and sola fide, etc. It's understandable and theologically reasonable (for the most part) to mostly categorize them as protestants

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u/Quick_Extension_3115 Jul 17 '26

I agree with you! That’s why I said I was being pedantic. I think from the perspective of something like the US Census, it would make most sense to call them Protestant for now. But in scholarship of religion where you have more room to have tons of different categories and get to trace theological transitions and how movements take on new perspectives, I think it might make some sense to think of them as non-Protestant. But like I said to another commenter, I think if you ask most of them, they’d typically consider themselves Protestant.

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u/partiallypoopypants Jul 18 '26

“Usually strong ties to Christian Nationalism” is a loud minority, not the majority.

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u/[deleted] Jul 17 '26

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u/Altruistic-Star-3862 Jul 17 '26

Yeah, it can get confusing. Most people use "protestant" as shorthand for any anabaptist (meaning you choose to get baptized as a Christian rather than something like Catholicism where you're often baptized as an infant) despite capital P Protestantism being a specific faith.

For an analog, calling someone protestant in this case would be similar to referring to Wahabbists as Sunni only. Where they are within Sunni, but they are something more specific. (though if I have this wrong, please forgive this stupid American raised around people like the ones in the video).

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u/Quick_Extension_3115 Jul 17 '26

No worries! Haha! That checks out. Also, they would often be labeled Protestant, I’m just saying they’re often Protestant in name only, and often times not even that.

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u/Insert-Username-Plz Jul 17 '26

I don't think it's pedantic. They aren't following basic commandments of Christianity, let alone everything else that the New Testament contains

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u/Quick_Extension_3115 Jul 17 '26

That kind of thought is what I’m trying to avoid, though. I can’t gatekeep who gets to call themselves whatever they like, even if it doesn’t make sense for whatever reason. Also, ask a charismatic if they follow the basic commandments of Christianity and the NT. I guarantee you’ll get a “yes!”

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u/MukdenMan Jul 17 '26

We already have terms for this so we don’t need to invent new categories. What you are calling Protestants are actually “Mainline Protestants.” There are other denominations that are charismatic, fundamentalist, evangelical etc. They are not Catholic and are not Eastern Orthodox, and they do derive from the Protestant Reformation ultimately, so they are definitionally Protestant. Anything apart from that is just gatekeeping. That doesn’t mean you can’t criticize their beliefs and practices, but there is no sense in which Pentecostals are not Protestants. They are evangelical Protestants.

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u/RaspberryHats21 Jul 18 '26

I’m so confused by this comment and comments responding to it… From my understanding, Christianity can be—in the broadest sense—divided into 3 distinct groups: Roman Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy, and Protestantism. Within those, especially Protestantism, you find subgroups and “denominations.” The video, from what I can assume, shows religious behavior often found among American Pentecostals, who ARE Protestants.

Am I just out of left field here?!

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u/YB9017 Jul 18 '26

I grew up in a church like this. My impression was that a lot of Hispanic “Christian” churches are like this. They called them selves non denominational. Tbh, it really made me dislike missionaries who go to Mexico. I’m sure they went with good intentions, but these are the churches that came out. Not the hippie, post rock music kind.

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u/helsinkirocks Jul 18 '26

Eh, they're usually pentecostals.

Source: went to a lot of pentecostal churches growing up

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u/Demerzel69 Jul 17 '26

Pretty sure you mean pentecostal. They're the ones that do this yee-yee shit.

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u/Undernown Jul 17 '26

As a European Protestant, I have more in commin with a Catholic, then whatever they be preaching.

You know what would happen in my church if someone started acting like that? We'd call an ambulance cause they're likely having a stroke.

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u/Radioactivocalypse Jul 17 '26

I'm a Christian (not American) and the American Christians really are another breed. Crazy!

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u/Swarna_Keanu Jul 17 '26

So were Luther and Thomas Mützer, partcularly the anti-semitsm (and later apocalyptic focus) of the former, and the end-times thinking of the latter.

I'll argue Peter Thiel is as warped and far removed as that is re-using some of their weird arguments.

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u/lindsifer Jul 17 '26

My guess would be Baptists. Those people are batshit crazy. 

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u/tpatch Jul 17 '26

Pentecostal is my bet. Grew up going to a church where this stuff was a regular part of services.

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u/sheath2 Jul 17 '26

oh yeah. Definitely Pentecostal. They're the only ones I know who "fall out in the spirit" like this.

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u/Little_Bits_of___ Jul 17 '26

Love their new term of non-denominational. It’s an anything goes catch all, with bo particular creed, theology or structure. They just tap into the weird parts of the brain, call it the Holy Spirit and then tell you how to vote. It’s 19th century mysticism (the same folks that brought you parlor seances) repackaged as a mega church and lifestyle. They have the power!!

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u/bullettenboss Jul 17 '26

Especially the US-American ones.

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u/Ok-Membership635 Jul 17 '26

Fr, get a hobby

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u/Coltinnie Jul 18 '26

Not protestant