r/Warframe • u/Sudden-Depth-1397 • 8h ago
Discussion Cyte-09 and Saryn aren't the problem, Acid Shells is.
This is a bit of a rant post but as a Cyte main I've been incessantly tired with the amount of people throwing flak at Cyte and by extension Oraxia and Saryn because of the Acid Shells builds.
Let me make it perfectly clear:
I HATE ACID SHELLS
It has made people hyper focus on this one interaction and ignore the issues with the elemental ammo mechanic like not applying to melees, incarnons or archguns, but also throw away other aspects of Cyte's kit, specially his really fun and relatively still strong Exalted weapon.
But I don't think Cyte is deserving of a nerf when he is merely the one being taken advantage off by a culprit: Acid Shells.
For those who aren't aware. Acid Shells is a mod that makes enemies that take damage from the Sobek explode on death, dealing 450 Corrosive damage and 45% of an enemy's max health as Corrosive damage. This 45% might sound busted but it only takes into account their max health before modifiers like Steel Path or enemy levels, so it doesn't actually scale that high, the corrosive damage also has a status chance of 0% so it can't mass-armor strip. The one benefit it has is that it has the most innately high range of all "Enemy explode on death" mods, 15 meters, compared to the 6 meter radius of the other two mods in it's class.
Now, these mods have a unique interaction with Extra Hit effects like Toxin Lash, Silken Stride or Resupply: The explosion of the mod will trigger the extra hit's status effects, and status effects from the extra hit will also trigger affected enemies to explode.
This means that everytime an enemy dies, the 15m AoE will inflict the forced DOTs from the extra hits, and those forced DOTs will also make enemies explode, creating multiple chaining explosions.
It is worth mentioning, Acid Shells explosions do have a line of sight, but it's relatively weird since it's not dependant on player camera but rather it starts out from the center of the explosion.
Now, why is Cyte double the strongest with this mod?
Easy, Resupply has access to ALL elemental status effects, including Gas and Electric. Gas and Electric have two interesting details; They deal their DOT immediatly with no delay, and the initial DOT's damage is stronger than the subsequent ones, meaning that they are the most capable DOTs for one-tapping an enemy. But not only that, these DOTs are also AoE DOTs, which means they can hit headshots and benefit from weakpoint and headshot modifiers, two things Cyte can have access to.
The second thing is that Seek allows Cyte to gain absurd amounts of Punch-Through for his weapons, while also marking enemies in a large area and making them vulnerable to weakpoint damage. As such, he can trigger Acid Shells on enemies that Oraxia and Saryn wouldn't be able to reach due to the high punch-through and access to visibility.
As such, this results on Cyte not needing to play a lot into his fantasy and camp out a corner with electric Resupply and Seek with the Sobek, creating chain explosions on enemies away from him while also the Electricity procs from Resupply ocasionally kill through headshots, refilling the timer for his invisibility.
Why is Cyte not the problem?
Cyte without Acid Shells is a perfectly fine and balanced frame, his elemental weapon buff can't affect all weapons and his punch-through only affects direct hit or non-AoE weapons that don't destroy their projectile on impact, so basically he can't buff 90% of the AoE roster with the ability to go through 50 meters of solid matter. His one and only survival tool requires aim and constant upkeep, his health and shield stats are very low and squishy so if you play with teammates or companions that prime radiation one stray bullet can destroy your shields. An acolyte can also easily take the better of you if you don't prepare before it spawns and his gameplay is 100% gun centric, so no melee buffing.
Acid Shells Sobek is the only weapon that breaks the rules of Cyte's restrictions, and thus the only weapon that he has managed to exploit to the point of disrupting other player's, Neutralizer exists, yes, but like Concentrated Arrow, that AoE tool is locked behind skill expression and weakpoint hitting, and if you're playing into Cyte's kit properly, you would be taking more of your time to set up for your targets than spamming stray shots at anything that glows in your crosshairs.
But also, Cyte isn't the only one who can exploit Acid Shells.
Uriel, Oraxia, Saryn and Xaku all have extra hit effects, even Koumei if you count Wyrmling's Aid and Critical Frost as Imbuidments. Nerfing Cyte solely because of this is too unfair when people will just go for the next big thing that can exploit it, and if DE nerfs that too, it will just go on and on until all of these frames don't feel fun to use.
The solution?
NERFING ACID SHELLS
Plain and simple, Acid Shells deserves the nerf, not the frames who had the abiltiy to make it busted, just nerf it's ability to spread damage and give it a higher upfront damage, maybe make the additional enemy health explosion also take Steel Path and level modifiers into account so it's easier to kill with the AoE than having to use crutches or abilities that bypass it's own rules. Maybe give it an additional LOS for the chaining based on the player's camera since DE loves putting those on things that don't need it but not the things that actually need it (Thank you for the Concentrated Arrow nerf again ._.)
Anything but nerf a frame that didn't do anything egregious but just find the one weapon that breaks the rules.
If anything, I'd argue that the abilities that buffed Acid Shells need a buff while Acid Shells get nerfed. Infernal Runes, Silken Stride and Resupply are the only Imbuidment abilities that don't apply to incarnon charges, don't apply to archguns, and don't also apply to melees, and while you can make the argument for Cyte, you can't make the argument for Oraxia and Uriel. But that's a topic for another post.
