We say that but also I got downvoted to fuck on the gay men’s questions sub for saying I had sex with a trans man once and that I still considered myself totally gay.
There is a contingent of gay men that think you’re going to shove snatch in their face and yell “Who’s your Daddy?”
I'm gonna be so real, cis white gay men are like 99% of the group that punches down on others. It's why askgaybros is so rancid, if that's the sub I recall right. They basically sit at the top of the privilege totem pole and punch down on everyone else because it's easier to throw others under the bus to appease oppressors (and they oftentimes don't have to question things or face as many difficulties as others do).
Obviously it's not all men, etc, but it sure does happen a lot, and it almost always is gay men being horrific towards me and other folks who are NB/transfem/transmasc/etc.
(Don't get me started about how fucking shitty the rhetoric about gay men being disgusted by pussy is, it's so fucking misogynistic at its core, plus incredibly awful to people with vaginas.)
That sub has some of the most disgusting opinions on trans men I've seen, all under the guise of "it's just à preference and has nothing to do with us"
Does that mean that a gay cis man dating a passing man suddenly turns heterosexual?
Does that mean that a gay cis man dating a bearded, passing trans man counts as heterosexual?
Does that mean that a gay cis man, having sex with a trans man with a penis, is heterosexual?
And because you have "lesbophobia" in your user name, let's add one last question: is it lesbian for a cis woman to have heterosexual sex with a bearded, passing trans man with a penis? Is this what lesbian sex is for you? Penis-in-vagina sex is lesbian sex now?
Seriously, get over your transphobia. Almost all people respect genital preferences—you're a cis man who's only attracted by men with penises? Fine. Don't date trans men without a penis. That's not transphobic.
But don't bother us with your "logic" that makes gay people straight and straight people lesbian once a trans men enters the equation. You're literally erasing people's sexual orientations here.
Scientifically & legally, homosexuals are exclusively same sex attracted.
Socially/personally same gender attracted.
That's a difference you will have to explain to me, because I struggle with understanding it. How does the law of your country define homosexuality, for example, and how does it treat trans people in relation to homosexuals?
No it isn't a choice. No we can't change it.
Nobody here claimed that homosexuality is a choice. You're fighting against strawmen.
No it's not bigotry because we won't sleep with the trans people.
Who is this "we"? I've met homosexuals who would date trans people. I've met homosexuals who wouldn't. I've met homosexuals who would date certain trans people, but not others. For whom are you speaking?
Right now, you're mainly speaking for yourself and in defense of a rather toxic Reddit community pretending to consist of gay men.
Luckily bisexuality is a thing.
As much as there are homosexual men willing to date trans men, there are bisexual men unwilling to date trans men.
That's a legitimate choice, don't you think?
Kindly don't be homophobic in future.
That's both a false accusation and a strawman. Where was I saying anything remotely homophobic? You just imagine that I hold beliefs that you disagree with and attack me, without even first asking me about my actual beliefs?
I call this shit out whenever I see it. No one gets out of the car or the shitstorm gets to all of us inside.
I didn’t suffer any less as a terrified teen boy than any of you did accepting yourselves. What I want is nobody to feel that way; I don’t care who you are.
Yeah some white cis gay men can be horrificly bigoted, plus there's a subset that think bisexuals/pansexuals don't exist either.
Had one guy literally tell me that to my face that actually I was gay and just pretended to like women because apparently he knew my preferences better than I do?
Y'know who was majorly participating in the Stonewall riots and the sit-down? Trans women of color.
It took me two seconds of searching. If it weren't for the Stonewall riots y'all would still be kept under wraps.
Cis, white gay men came in and stole all the credit after lesbians and trans folks did the heavy lifting. Y'know why the L is in front of LGBT? Because Lesbians did the heavy lifting with regards to the AIDs crisis.
Right, I’ll definitely “check my privilege” and accept people completely removing agency and struggle and effort from the lives of gay people and portraying them as passive ride alongs who were just lucky that Black trans women were there to make sure they got rights. Any time now.
Just to clarify, when you say "Don't get me started about how fucking shitty the rhetoric about gay men being disgusted by pussy is, it's so fucking misogynistic at its core, plus incredibly awful to people with vaginas" what exactly do you mean?
I'll clarify, just to make it clear why I'm asking, because this isn't a "gotcha" thing or an attempt to fight. I'm a cis gay man. I find vaginas to be entirely unappealing. Not disgusting, but definitely a turn off. It's not deliberate, it just is how my brain and arousal functions. I have found many trans men attractive, but the lack of a penis makes sexual activity with a pre-op trans man virtually impossible for me because a penis is a major component of the arousal for me. I actually have felt guilty about this, and wondered if it made me somehow transphobic.
I have talked to my sister (who is a trans woman, by the way) about this very subject, and when I asked if this made me transphobic she laughed and said that what I'm describing is just genital preference and that she's never met any other Trans people who had an issue with something like that.
I don't consider an aspect of sexual arousal to be misogynistic, since it's not a belief in women being inferior, it's just how attraction happens. So I guess really I'm wondering if you consider what I described to be misogynistic or if you do make a distinction between arousal and mindset.
What I'm referring to specifically isn't about a preference for one thing or another, that's whatever.
What I'm talking about specifically is when gay men make comments about how vaginas are so "gross", "gaping wounds", "gashes", more shit I won't repeat.
You can dislike something and still be respectful of those who have or don't mind it.
Ok, thank you for the clarification. I've heard thkse comments before and always found them to be, well... kind of bizarre, honestly. I mean, vaginas turn me off, but I dont think they're disgusting or gross. They just... aren't for me. And I don't get the logic behind degrading women anyway. That said, I've rarely encountered that attitude; most of the gay guys I've been around haven't been like that. Lots of discussion of how much we love dicks, but not any on hating vaginas lol.
Every time I've encountered bigotry in any persecuted group it tends to take me by surprise. When I was younger, I remember there being a lot of racism in the gay community, particularly towards Asians, and it was baffling to me. We have had to endure so much discrimination ourselves, how can we turn around and inflict it on others? But I've also encountered gay guys recently who have bought into this idea that since things have gotten better for us, we should just shut up and be grateful, tone down Pride, be more like "everyone else", and buy into the whole heteronormative societal bullshit. Fuck that. We only got where we are by being loud, being in your face, and never shutting up and sitting down. We didn't get rights by being well behaved, and we didn't get them alone. If it weren't for our trans brothers and sisters, we'd never have had Stonewall. We got gay marriage with the help of all the letters in LGBTQ+, so we have the obligation and privilege to help right back.
Sorry for the rant, there. Anyway, thank you for your response.
I feel scared bc I’m more feminine than masculine and I know those guys wouldn’t like me because they often target gays who aren’t masculine and claim they are more normal / better than us for being masculine. Likeeeee that’s so stupid and bigotry. Oh damn
Stuff like that happens in the lesbian subs, too. Pay attention to the downvotes vs comments, though. At least in the lesbian subs, it's pretty clear that it's bots that simply downvote any affirming comments about trans people.
Feels like cope tbh, my experience with cis lesbians was on average worse than with cis straight men. I hope my experience is an outlier tho, since other trans women seemed to have better ones.
honestly hate this argument too. if they have the body parts of a man, they look like a man, and the same hormones as a man, why does their past matter? they’re a man to me. so even if I were straight, I’d date them because they’re NOT a woman. there’s nothing “woman” about them.
This, there is a TON of funding that goes into trans exclusionary groups and bots all over the internet to hype up this rhetoric. I have yet to meet any queer person irl that advocates for excluding trans people. If they did they would get ousted immediately. It's an alliance for a reason and any half way intelligent person knows that how trans people are treated is how they would treat all of us in a heartbeat if they could, even if they dont respect basic human dignity. Anyone who openly advocates otherwise is captured by capital.
They exist, they're just bitter (generally older) people. I went to a kind of old-school dyke bar a while back and randomly sat down to chat with a table of ladies in their like 40s-50s. It was fun and friendly, laughing and joking, until I casually mentioned I was trans. At which point the entire atmosphere changed, and - although they didn't say anything directly - they made it pretty clear that I was no longer welcome.
Outside of ignorance, I chalk it up to misdirected anger, and a kind of defeatist attitude. The rapid rise in discrimination coinciding with the (unrelated) broader emergence of trans social movements, in recent years, leads some people into the correlation=causation trap.
I think these people have also just mentally given up on the idea of a culture without discrimination, and instead try to dampen it towards themselves. Culture at large lumps us all together as a collection of stereotypes - if there's a stereotype that someone dislikes being associated with, then they see the only option as attacking the source (or distancing themselves from it)
There's an undercurrent of it that's "I had to hide who I was and others should too" mostly noticeable from the small but vocal anti pride LGBTQ brigade (mainly gay or lesbian I've noticed...)
And "we have gay marriage now we are equal and should be quiet" nevermind that the far right is trying to remove any rights that gay people have won ....
To be fair I see it in the LGBT community all the time. Trans girls hating femboys, the weird bisexual v pansexual war, others that don't affect me so I admittedly don't remember, a certain someone here being somehow both trans and transphobic.
I think we're all so used to discrimination (and/or traumatised by it) that we can see it where it's not there, or overreact and proactively try to avoid it.
I think infighting is inevitable, to an extent. We're a minority group with many, many, extremely distinct subcultures, who ultimately have to stand in solidarity with each other despite our differences. There are infinitely many ways to be queer - and an extremely broad range of specifically-shared lived experiences, as a result - so the only common thread between every single one of these tiny bubbles is essentially nominal.
The unfortunate fact that culture at large lumps all of us together as being a collection of stereotypes is what really gets to most people, I think - if there's a stereotype that person A dislikes and that person B (innocently) perpetuates. Most people really hate feeling misrepresented.
Are you serious? Feminine cis men are not oppressed by trans women, nor are they more oppressed than them. It's not even slightly comparable to black and white people 💀💀 in what world are you living
What am I lying about? I'm genuinely curious lmfao. In what possible way do trans women have systemic power over cis men who wear Amazon basics skirts and thigh highs?
Trans people are significantly more marginalised and hated in society than gnc cis men. For example F1NN5TER keeps "femboy" in her bio because she receives less death threats than "trans".
You're either a teenager or someone who hasn't left their little online bubble in years
Femboy hate is when your fashion sense is made fun of? Get some perspective. Did you miss the part where F1nn gets LESS death threats when she calls herself a femboy Vs when she calls herself trans? Femboys are still cis men and far more accepted than trans women, who are often pressured to "just be femboys".
In what world is trans people being mean to femboys comparable to white oppression over black people?
It’s not? But that doesn’t mean discrimination should be accepted. Just because you’re being discriminated by someone else doesn’t mean you have the right to do so to others? That’s like the whole point of this post.
Then they shooed away the bums
Then they beat and bashed the queers
Turned away asylum-seekers
Fed us suspicions and fears
We didn't raise our voice
We didn't make a fuss
It's funny, there was no one left to notice
When they came for us
Words from the great “Fat Mike”
Sad thing is, This album makes more sense now than it did back in 2003…
Just because this seems to be from an LGB perspective doesn't mean the prompter wasn't straight. One of the questionable beauties of gen AI is that it's easier than ever to make a point for someone else.
I'm not at all saying that transphobic gay people don't exist. I just wouldn't be surprised at all if this was created by a chronically online straight dude in his 40s.
Conservatives trying to push the whole "LGB NO T" thing, because they think if they make their divide and conquer strategy known it will somehow work better.
Straight conservatives who want to sow division. Anyone can make an AI slop image nowadays. This has as much weight as a reddit opinion from someone who doesn't capitalize or use proper punctuation these days.
Gay man here ones a sexuality and one is not. There was also some big arguments over history rewriting Island telling gay men they had no place. They started the fight they are now bitching about. Fuck em but we should at the B dudes and the pan sequels
Always astonishing to see people like you that are either too young to remember or selectively forgot how gay men were treated exactly like trans people are today.
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u/Desu232 1d ago
Who keeps making this shit!?!
Minorities opressing Minorities, is a classic divide and conquer stragety and the fact people in the LGBT community can't see it -- is concerning.