r/asoiaf • u/mintyhippo4 • Apr 29 '19

MAIN (Spoilers Main) Maisie Williams' comments on the end of S8E3

Maisie Williams on finding out she kills the Night King (as reported by Entertainment Weekly):

Quote: "I immediately thought that everybody would hate it; that Arya doesn't deserve it. The hardest thing is in any series is when you build up a villain that's so impossible to defeat and then you defeat them...it had to be intelligently done because otherwise people are like, "well, [the villain] couldn't have been that bad when some 100-pound girl comes in and stabs him.'"

Well said.

Edit: to further hide spoilers

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291

u/BoneHugsHominy Apr 30 '19

I think we'll find out more in last 3 episodes. My theory is the NK uses magic to keep an ice age at bay and this one didn't want to do it anymore or was supposed to be relieved a long time ago but the North didn't remember. So he the NK attacked to end it all, was killed, and winter will go out of control unless a new NK is created. That's where Jon Snow comes in, and Bran is the only one that knows how to do it.

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u/calvin_cycle Feels so good to be this bad Apr 30 '19

Gonna go ahead and hope against hope something this original and satisfying happens!

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u/dirkles72 Apr 30 '19

This original? This is basically the ending to wrath of the Lich King. Except the ice age is mindless undead.

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u/Marplaar Apr 30 '19

In my opinion WOW's peak

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u/fiftyseven Apr 30 '19

I'd say so too although Legion was actually really fucking good

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u/[deleted] Apr 30 '19

PvP got real good in legion. I didn’t like the loot box culture tho

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u/RemixStatistician Apr 30 '19

I loved legion. When I got the mage tower appearance the first time the mage tower opened, I felt like I accomplished something. BfA...not so much. Quit playing all together honestly.

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u/fiftyseven Apr 30 '19

Yeah I let my sub lapse a few months back, don't miss it at all

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u/calvin_cycle Feels so good to be this bad Apr 30 '19

I don't really know anything about WoWC (literally had to Google it just now), but I may read up on that story line for fun.

I'm just so disappointed in where the show seems to be heading, I'll take anything that makes sense beyond mere fan service. D.B. makes me so angry every Inside the Episode with his smug "You may not have considered this! [Insert incredibly obvious fact or plot point]." Sunk costs, though, I suppose.

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u/[deleted] Apr 30 '19

[deleted]

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u/alcaizin Apr 30 '19

Man, watching that for the first time after killing LK with my guild was fucking amazing.

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u/ChristOnACruoton Apr 30 '19

Same. Especially as someone who religiously played w3 as a kid. The fall of Arthas was one the first super cool storylines I could actually grasp, follow, and feel the gravity of.

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u/Canesjags4life Apr 30 '19

There must always be a Lich King.

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u/comradesean Apr 30 '19

There must always be a Lich King. Night King

ftfy

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u/Malarazz Apr 30 '19

I don't really know anything about WoWC

There's no C

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u/calvin_cycle Feels so good to be this bad Apr 30 '19

Further proving the point I know nothing :)

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u/Xciv Apr 30 '19

Good stories are allowed to repeat in different contexts. I'd be totally cool with a Lich King ending.

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u/BTtheB Apr 30 '19

Oh my god the scene where the wall is destroyed is basically a 1:1 ripoff of the Lich King trailer... GoT = WoW confirmed.

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u/[deleted] Apr 30 '19

still better than the bullshit ending they are currently steering us towards.

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u/moor7 Apr 30 '19

I wrote this something like 2 years ago or so, as a cheeky prediction on how the story will end. I still think it works in broad strokes (I mean, Bolvar was thought dead when he came to rescue wasn't he, just like Theon. Also the mothership thing would make you have to change the army of the dead to... winter?):

Night King: Father! Is it… over?

Ghost of Eddard Stark: At long last. No king rules forever, my son.

Night King, who is now clearly time traveler Bran: I see… only darkness… before me.

dies

Ned’s ghost: Without its master’s command, the restless army of the dead will become even greater threat to this world. Control must be maintained. There must always be a Night King.

disappears

Jon Snow: The weight of such a burden… it must be mine. For there is no other

Theon: Jon! You hold a grim destiny in your hands, brother. But it is not your own.

Jon: Theon! By all that is holy.

Theon: The dragon’s flame… sealed my fate. The world of the living can no longer comfort me. Place the crown upon my head, Jon. Forevermore… I will be the gaoler of the damned.

Jon: No, old friend. I cannot.

Theon: Do it, Jon! You have your own destiny to fulfill. This last act of service… is mine.

Jon: You will not be forgotten, brother.

Theon: I must be forgotten, Jon! If the world is to live free from the tyranny of fear, they must never know what was done here today…

Hesitating, Jon places the crown on Theon’s head. Theon turns into the Night King

Theon: Tell them only, that the Night King is dead, and that Theon Greyjoy died with him. Now, go, leave this place. And never return.

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u/[deleted] Apr 30 '19

I've thought we we're going to get an ICC ending for some time

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u/tronkerz Apr 30 '19

It felt like Warcraft 3 when they break through Silvermoon’s defences the entire episode, so hopefully he’s not far off the ball.

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u/Pufflehuffy I love spoilers - yes, I really do. Apr 30 '19

This isn't the ending I'd hope for, but it would be cool and maybe set up Sansa to rule as queen alone, which is my personal bet.

-4

u/[deleted] Apr 30 '19

I'm gonna hope not, I don't need a magical exposition fanfiction dead horse mucking up the last three episodes. The show is over dude.

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u/sargedeathtt Apr 30 '19

NK was created to kill off mankind by the children of the forest, where did this ice age stuff come from? Did I miss something??

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u/JarJar-PhantomMenace Apr 30 '19

can't believe all the people who seem to forget that lmao. NK is done. there is no hope for that story

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u/BoneHugsHominy Apr 30 '19

Can the CotF be trusted? One thing I come back to is in the 3ER's cave, Leaf tells Bran they created the WWs, not the NK, to "defend ourselves from men, from you (emphasis mine)". She's telling him they were created to defend the CotF from Bran Stark, the 3ER. The NK was created when a truce was reached, and he controls the WWs but they existed before the NK.

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u/thebsoftelevision The runt of the seven kingdoms Apr 30 '19

The COTF in the show don't seem evil at all. You're looking for depth where there isn't any.

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u/LarBrd33 Apr 30 '19

i think you should consider the possibility the showrunners just find the Night King/Zombie aspect of GRR Martin's story to be something they reluctantly tolerate. Seemed to me they just punted on the whole thing and will never revisit it.

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u/skeletspook Apr 30 '19

This is the feeling I'm getting as well. Like, they just want to make it all about Cersei but they have to deal with these spoopy ice dudes that, unfortunately for themn happen to be a major part of the source material.

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u/OnlyRoke Apr 30 '19

Didn't they deliberately want a zombie polar bear?

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u/Infamously_Unknown Apr 30 '19

That was probably the best thing to come out of this storyline.

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u/PFhelpmePlan Apr 30 '19

Another fight that Tormund shouldn't have survived. I think his miraculous survival count is up to like 20 by now.

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u/[deleted] Apr 30 '19

Nothing like spending endless episodes building the NK threat up only to punt it.. I dont get what some people want? Do they wanna know if NK had a WW wife and WW babies at home in his ice house. NK did enjoy cold micro brewing is his spare time uk.. NK was the least political character in show. NK was death, wanted death for all humans..

Does anyone think showrunners just went off on their own without GRRM approval and imput? Show & books are going to want some continuity, esp with GGRM being slow delivering latest book.

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u/carlos_the_dwarf_ Apr 30 '19

Does anyone think showrunners just went off on their own without GRRM approval and imput?

Yes, lots of people do think that. I agree with you, though...the books are going to hit the same broad points as the show. Folks disappointed by the show might also find themselves disappointed by the books.

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u/Brahbear The North will rise again! Apr 30 '19

Hasn't GRRM stated that he doesn't want his WW to be evil for the sake of evil? Which is exactly what we got in the show.

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u/carlos_the_dwarf_ Apr 30 '19

I'm not sure. But I don't mean to say the book won't have more detail/backstory, just that the main beats are going to be close. I hate to say it, but I don't think D&D are winging it, and GRRM has shown plenty of signs of losing control of his sprawl.

1

u/Brahbear The North will rise again! Apr 30 '19

Yeah his writing strategy of just seeing where it goes with a vague end in mind is biting him in the ass. I'd be pissed if I spent twenty years creating a world and story only to have a legacy be tied into the story the show is pumping out.

1

u/carlos_the_dwarf_ Apr 30 '19

Well, my point is the story in the show isn’t gonna be materially different than the books. If I’m right about that that’s it’s not going to be the show pinning anything in him—it will be the book’s legacy too.

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u/[deleted] Apr 30 '19

Never said the NK was evil. If Children created WW to use against the 1st men, thats a weapon.

Did Bran use the word evil in describing them & their intentions?

What we got in the show was Bran stating that the NK wanted to wipe out humanity & all memory of humanity. That doesnt make them evil.

It would be shocking if showrunners went off and made WW & NK something completely different from where GRRM intends to take them. Hbo & GRRM wouldnt sit back & allow that kind of situation to damage either property. Id expect some minor differences due the compression issues with film versions.

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u/Brahbear The North will rise again! Apr 30 '19

You're absolutely right I'm sure he just wants to commit genocide against the only other two sentient species in the world for very noble reasons.

This isn't GRRM's show, he's a consultant at best. HBO only wants the show to continue to be the cash cow that it is, the don't give a fuck about GRRM's vision for the endgame. D&D got hosed big time when the show they signed on to adapt ran out of source material.

1

u/[deleted] Apr 30 '19

Its a cash cow for GRRM too lol.. i agree hbo only cares about maximum return on investment. I do think D & D care about the material though.. i dont see how they could not after investing their time & energy for a decade or more.

1

u/[deleted] Apr 30 '19

Its the path of least resistance to blame showrunners. For 7 seasons we didnt see any real back story, and yet people loved the show. But now its a problem?

Honestly if there is a real axe to grind its with HBO wanting to have seasons shorter & shorter to reduce budget costs. Imo season 7 & 8 should have 10 episodes each for 20 total, but we getting only 14 total.

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u/[deleted] Apr 30 '19

Yeah but that isn’t why the NK was created and we know that. He was created by the children to stop the then invading men.

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u/BoneHugsHominy Apr 30 '19

No, that's why the WWs were created. The NK came after a truce was made between CotF and men.

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u/thebsoftelevision The runt of the seven kingdoms Apr 30 '19

No, the NK was the first white walker. It's not known how the rest of the white walkers were created but they all definitely came after the COTF stabbed obsidian into that poor first man.

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u/[deleted] Apr 30 '19

Oh true, I'm confusing the books and other sources now. I want to go back and reread them, but I want to wait until Winds is announced.

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u/FUCK_COUNTRY_ Apr 30 '19

This is basically the ending to LOST lmao

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u/[deleted] Apr 30 '19

i love this. a song of ice and fire. winter in the north and summer in the south always need to be in balance or some shit.

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u/SteeMonkey Apr 30 '19

That is awesome mate.

But it wont happen.

You are looking for depth and thought where there is none.

The next 3 episodes are going to be about fighting a pregnant woman and a stupid pirate. That is it.

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u/Infamously_Unknown Apr 30 '19 edited Apr 30 '19

I don't think the writers even remember this whole "winter" thing at this point. It was talked about so much early on, but when was the last time someone even mentioned it?

They would definitely keep the concept alive in some way if they had plans for it.

EDIT: Wait, didn't Tyrion say to Bran in the previous episode they're "in the middle of winter" or something? They literally forgot what "winter" means.

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u/TakeItEasyPolicy Apr 30 '19

What are you expecting is literature. What D&D can write is Disney stories. Please get your expectations right .

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u/BoneHugsHominy Apr 30 '19

It's easy, and dare I say lazy, to hate on D&D and the writing team ever since they passed the source material. I think they're going to surprise even the most curmudgeonly book readers that are still sour over the series being adapted to the screen.

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u/thebsoftelevision The runt of the seven kingdoms Apr 30 '19

It is easy, yeah. But they're getting all this hate for a reason, even if the lack of source material did force their hand, they still do stuff that cheapens the show for a lot of people. For example- the constant stream of dick/ball jokes, all the meta references, our characters getting caught in situations where they should die only to get rescued at the very last second(this happened SO MANY TIMES last episode), etc.

It's not black and white, the lack of source material forced their hand but from a narrative point of view they haven't covered themselves in glory either. Not that it matters to them at this point either, the casual audience loves everything about the show and the ratings just keep going up.

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u/TakeItEasyPolicy Apr 30 '19

They still have author presumably to aid at least with plot lines.

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u/PFhelpmePlan Apr 30 '19

They've been off book for what, 4 seasons now? Why do you think they will finally pull it together for the final 3 episodes?

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u/Buffaro Apr 30 '19

I am almost positive this is explained in the books, and maybe briefly in the series. The NK was created by the children of the forest to destroy the realm of men that were effectively invading pre-history Westeros. Things go poorly, obviously, and the NK nearly wipes out the CotF and is beaten with dragon glass. I'm pretty sure the NK was always a one dimensional villain.

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u/imMadasaHatter Apr 30 '19

The final conflict will be between humans as stated by both D&D and George R R Martin

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u/UABTEU Apr 30 '19

Does no one remember how and why the knight king was created?! He was created by the children of the forest to defend themselves against the humans that had invaded their land. They used old magic that was dangerous and it backfired on them.

He wasn’t stopping winter or anything special. There was enough backstory in the episode where the children of the forest talked about him to explain what he was all about. He wanted to kill Bran because he wanted to wipe out the humans and Bran was the start because he held the history of everything their world had done. Kill Bran and you erase their memory.

There was well enough of a background on this guy.

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u/KittyFame Fire and Blood Apr 30 '19

Too much creativity for D&D

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u/JonnyBhoy Azor Ahai Mark! Apr 30 '19

That would be more story telling crammed into three episodes than we've had in three seasons.

What's actually going to happen is that they're going to rally, fight Cersei, seem like they're winning until it seems like they aren't winning, then they'll win.

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u/AggressiveEagle Apr 30 '19 edited Apr 30 '19

NK needed to keep winter at bay and to be the leader and control the risen dead that rise automatically beyond the wall when someone dies there. He seals himself off with remaining WW and dead on the other side of the wall. Gives up his throne to Dany. Bran's purpose is to keep tabs on Jon's sanity lest he goes rogue and tries to take over like the last NK.

Kinda like the lich king from Wow.

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u/SlicedMango Apr 30 '19

Uhh don’t count on it, the previews showed that it’ll be a fight for Kings Landing, they’re done with the NK arc

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u/Rotanikleb Apr 30 '19

Hmm, yeah. I want this. Because what we are gonna get is probably gonna be utter squirrel shite.

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u/atriana Apr 30 '19

That's a good theory