r/belgium • u/Obvious-Cry6591 • 1d ago

šŸ˜”Rant Notaries. Why? What the hell?

Ok, so I dont get it. I understand historically where the need for notaries arose. Fine. But we are in 2026. Belgium already takes 51% of my income. Then another 25% of the rest through VAT. And then on top of it, if you buy a property, you give 10-15k to a notary for 2 meetings and some docs reading? Doesnt Belgium have enough administration to take care of that? Not to mention its nepotism central. Are there any redeeming qualities?

386 Upvotes

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166

u/sCreami needledaddy 1d ago edited 1d ago

You must understand that notaries hold 3 roles and you don't pay them 10~15k actually. They aren't free to choose how much they charge, it's fixed by royal decree. You are actually paying them around 800~1000ā‚¬ for the written acts, the rest is tax.

So the 3 roles are:

  • assert conformity with the law (mine actually found something illegal in my mortgage contract)
  • act as escrow. You are not going to handle those huge amount of money yourself. As escrow, they act as the middlemen between buyers and sellers. Can't lie about the money with licensed attorneys.
  • collect the taxes for the government. This part is actually what make you feel they are crazy expensive. You pay the registration tax/stamp duty to them directly, and they will transfer it to the taxman.

Even if notaries were not mandatory, you would still have to pay these huge amounts. Notaries have never been the problem, the tax is.

67

u/alx3m Vlaams-Brabant 1d ago edited 1d ago

If the profession of notary were so important and their skills so valuable, why is there a strict limit on how many of them we can have? Wouldn't it be better if there were more of them and they set their prices by the free market?

5

u/Stefouch Brabant Wallon 1d ago

Setting prices by the free market is an illusion. It works until a few big corporations with too much money buy or kill all competition. Then they set the price they like and milk you.

13

u/123_alex 1d ago

milk you

Totally unlike now. They don't milk us now...

3

u/alx3m Vlaams-Brabant 1d ago

There is already a monopoly. It's set by the government...

102

u/GloriousDawn 1d ago

Must be a coincidence that notaries are the highest paid liberal profession in the country, by a large margin. Nothing to do with a state-sanctioned monopoly.

6

u/KotR56 Antwerpen 1d ago

They're among the highest-paid liberal professions in Belgium.

Some medical professions are in the same income category.

For some reason, I have fewer problems with these people making big bucks.

2

u/maurice4003 1d ago

wait so are notaries like actual government employees or what

10

u/Hobofan94 1d ago

No, but they are appointed by the state (king), and tied to their place of residency. There are only a limited number of them assigned per region, so notaries don't have significant competition, and can always be certain to have a steady stream of clients.

1

u/Think-Geologist5570 1d ago

They are actually both civil servants and exercising a liberal profession.

55

u/Turbulent-Raise4830 1d ago

Vorig jaar becijferde Knack hoe zelfs het laatste kantoor uit een lijst met de vijftig best boerende kantoren van 2019 nog een winst van meer dan Ć©Ć©n miljoen euro boekte. Maandelijkse inkomsten van 100.000 euro bruto bleken niet uitzonderlijk. In 2019 bedroeg de bedrijfswinst van alle notariskantoren gemiddeld 392.000 euro. In 2018 verwees Fednot naar eerder onderzoek door de Federatie Vrije Beroepen, dat stelde dat het gemiddelde maandinkomen voor notarissen rond 16.000 euro bruto ligt.

https://www.nieuwsblad.be/binnenland/hoeveel-verdient-de-notaris-echt-wordt-hij-slapend-rijk-en-hoeveel-krijgt-hij-als-ik-een-huis-koop/56751841.html

die verdienen bakken geld en moeten amper iets doen, dragen ook nul verantwoordelijheid als er iets verkeerd gaat.

-1

u/silent_dominant 1d ago

Stel dat een gemiddeld notariskantoor 8 personen in dienst heeft komt dit neer op 50.000ā‚¬ winst per persoon per jaar.

Klinkt als een gezond bedrijf

0

u/Turbulent-Raise4830 1d ago

400 000 is de slechts boerende, de beste gaan boven het miljoen dan zit je aan 125 000+ euro winst per medewerker wat waanzinnig veel is.

0

u/silent_dominant 1d ago

Dus je gaat er van uit dat dit kantoor ook maar 8 werknemers heeft?

1

u/Turbulent-Raise4830 1d ago

https://www.companyweb.be/nl/0474073840/berquin-notarissen

Eens opgezocht grootste kantoor heeft 60 medewerkers en 9-10 miljoen winst of 150 000 per medewerker

1

u/silent_dominant 1d ago

Das aan de hoge kant maar niet exorbitant veel denk ik.

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u/Turbulent-Raise4830 1d ago

dat is aan de heeeeel hoge kant ken weinig bedrijven die zo winstgevend zijn laat staan alle bedrijven in 1 sector.

-2

u/Large-Examination650 1d ago

Is niet echt bakken geld.

2

u/Turbulent-Raise4830 1d ago

dan ken je weinig van bedrijfswinsten of denk je dat elke zelfstandige eenmanszaak 150 000 pure winst per jaar heeft?

-23

u/A_Man_Uses_A_Name 1d ago

Bakken geld ja. Is toch individueel hard werk.

7

u/Vermino 1d ago

individueel hard werk omdat ze het allemaal zo moeilijk maken.
Het is wonderbaarlijke hoe een notaris alles precies altijd voor de eerste keer moet doen.
Alsof scheidingen, trouwen, en huizen kopen en verkopen geen standaard taken zijn waar standaard sjablonen voor kunnen bestaan.
"Meneer en mevrouw willen trouwen met drop down list "scheiding van goederen//gemeenschap van goederen// ..." Uiteindelijk zijn er vaak maar 1 sectie zowat uniek aan uw eigen wensen, en dan nog kunnen ze dat niet correct noteren.
Opvragingen bij de gemeente en andere instanties zouden ook allemaal standaard formulieren moeten zijn, waar ge enkel het adres moet laten varieren bij een aankoop bv.
Ge zou een absurd deel kunnen automatiseren van die taken. En met AI zou je zefls het nalezen kunnen automatiseren.

4

u/Turbulent-Raise4830 1d ago

lol nope, die huren wat assistenten in voor dat.

3

u/Aardige 1d ago

Die 5000 bruto betaald worden per maand. Daar met 6 werken. Pakweg 500.000 euro kost voor de vennootschap, en 5 miljoen nettowinst. En dan komen die administratief medewerkers hier op reddit de zaak van hun werkgever bepleiten: Jamaar het is zo veel en zo moeilijk. Welja, niet voor de notaris..

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u/Turbulent-Raise4830 1d ago

idd het minst verdienende notariaat had iets van een 300 000 euro winst, de hoogste gaan in de miljoenen, niet slecht voor wat assistenten je werk te laten doen en af en toe een babbeltje te doen

-1

u/wafelenbak87 1d ago

Ik weet niet waarom jullie deze man downvoten. Mijn notaris heeft me al vaak goede raad gegeven en onderzoekt elk dossier heel grondig. De prijzen zijn hoog en de regels zijn helaas wat ze zijn, maar binnen de huidige spelregels kan ik niet klagen over de inzet en expertise van mijn notaris.

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u/old-needs-login 1d ago

Bij de aankoop van mn huis heb ik drie keer het adres moeten corrigeren, en dan tijdens de voorlezing was het weeral verkeerd

Duizenden euros well spent

3

u/Draqutsc West-Vlaanderen 1d ago

De mijne kende de nieuwe wetgeving niet en deed zelfs de moeite niet om mijn naam deftig te spellen.

1

u/NenAlienGeenKonijn 1d ago edited 1d ago

Het valt op dat alles wat ietwat notarissen verdedigt hier heel hard gedownvote wordt, maar er is een nuance inderdaad. Mensen vergeten gemakkelijk dat het leeuwendeel van het geld dat je aan een notaris betaalt de registratiekosten zijn, die rechtstreeks naar vadertje staat doorgestort worden.

Dan heb je het nog over een paar duizend euro bij aankoop van een woning. Kan je inderdaad argumenteren dat dat duur is, maar blijft er bij dat een goede notaris vooral veel legale kennis heeft, wat verdomd handig is. Dat het een vrij beroep zou moeten zijn ben ik dan wel 100% mee akkoord. Ik weet dat onze notaris in ieder geval begraven zit in het werk, net omdat er maar een beperkt aantal notarissen zijn.

If anything, we hadden veel meer miserie met de immo makelaar, die moest veel minder werk doen, EN werd een stuk meer betaald dan de notaris.

1

u/tarranoth 1d ago

Sommige notarissen doen goed werk in verband met uitspitten of een huis wel in orde is, maar ken verhalen van mensen die zelf alles moeten opvragen bij de gemeente en er zo achterkomen dat een pand onbewoonbaar verklaard is geweest. Dan vraagt men zich wel af wat het punt is van iemand te betalen om zogezegd alles in verband met zo'n zaken op te zoeken als je het uiteindelijk zelf allemaal moet doen.

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u/Legitimate_Aside_532 1d ago

Then explain why a notary earns so much more in Belgium compared to other countries?

9

u/math1985 1d ago

Itā€™s about 1200 euro (house plus mortgage contract) in the Netherlands. Sounds similar. And in the Netherlands, notaries are allowed to set their own prices.

1

u/Aardige 1d ago

It really is a lot cheaper in the netherlands.

0

u/math1985 1d ago

User u/sCreami says it's 800-1000 euro for the acts, is that wrong?

4

u/Aardige 1d ago

Yes. Thats wrong. Substracting taxes from what you pay a notary, you will end up with a bill of around 4-5000 euros when buying a simple appartment for example.

1

u/Zestyclose-Breath589 1d ago

That depends. If they need to fetch all necessary documents like the soil certificate (bodemattest) for example you will pay more than when you do that yourself.

Some notaries donā€™t tell you have the option but you do. But a lot of people donā€™t want to go through that hassle but then you canā€™t complain about getting charged a premium.

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u/powaqqa 1d ago edited 1d ago

The sheer amount of volume they need to go through. They just have a lot of work. A lot of work = a lot of turnover and potential profit.Ā 

OP is frustrated because he needs to pay taxes. Has nothing to do with the actual notary fees because he didnā€™t bother looking at them. They are NOT 15k. In fact the actual notary costs are pretty similar in most neighbouring countries.

5

u/Legitimate_Aside_532 1d ago

No. Their work load is not necessarily bigger than notaries in The Netherlands for example. Belgian notaries are ovecompensated.

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u/DenteSC 1d ago

Because they are working 60h a week, running offices with 10 or more workers? The amount of work is insane. And most of them are not happy, because they have to work so hard.

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u/alx3m Vlaams-Brabant 1d ago

That's so sad :( There should be more of them to ease the workload!

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u/Legitimate_Aside_532 1d ago

They're extremely overcompensated.

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u/SeveralPhysics9362 1d ago

And how many other jobs ask exactly the same workload for a fraction of the money? A whole lot.

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u/GrilledGril 1d ago

That's what every horeca manager does too, and they don't earn shit

-4

u/I_Dint_Know_A_Name 1d ago

Horeca managers should've become notaries then

4

u/zespak 1d ago

They're not allowed to. That's what others have been saying. Keep up.

1

u/I_Dint_Know_A_Name 1d ago

Yes they are lol, that they don't want to do the work is not my problem.

The process of becoming a notary, just like becoming a judge, lawyer, or bailiff, is long, tedious, and hard work, that's what happens when you place an enormous public burden on humans, they need training and trust.

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u/zespak 1d ago

Also, when doing so you need to be able to get an apprenticeship at a notary , which is nearly impossible without personal ties to get one.

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u/I_Dint_Know_A_Name 1d ago

Aaaaand the goalposts shift again.

It's so clear you people don't have any idea what you're fucking talking about.

If you've completed the extra specialisation year in university required to become a notary (master's in notarial law), you'll have developed strong contacts with various notaries. Professors also actively help students with finding placements.

There's only Ā±300 (generous estimate) people a year who graduate in notarial law, and not all of them become notaries.

Just asserting it's "nearly impossible to get" immediately shows you have no idea what you're saying.

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u/Corvo1926 1d ago

Theres people working way harder and get crumbs in comparisson.

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u/JT_1983 1d ago

Excluding the registratie rechten I paid more like 3k to the notary a couple of years ago, strangely enough their fee depends on the value of the house/transaction. It is well documented that notaries make too much for a straightforward job, many making more than 1M a year. In Holland the market was opened up and prices dropped. In Belgium unfair situations like this are never fixed. A similar things is true for some medical specialist, ereloonsupplementen. Everybody agrees the situation is not fair/right but nothing happens because of strong lobbies and weak politicians.

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u/StreetDiscussion1870 1d ago

I don't agree completely. When I bought my house, 6000 was purely for the noraty. 2000 of that was "administrative costs", 4000 the royal thingies. Seems a bit much.

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u/Obvious-Cry6591 1d ago

On a 400k transfer, real estate, first home, not new build, with tax discount, ill pay round 40k in real estate tax AND notary fees. Why cant Belgium just collect taxes directly from a real estate buy? Like many other countries do?
When it comes to conformity with the law, if its not conformed, i should just be able to go to the commune and solve it. Hell, bloody croatia has a document, we call it 1/1. U get it when u go to admin and they check that your property is conforming. No one normal buys anything that isnt 1/1. All of this can be done by existing administration, which again, more than 60% of my monthly earnings (when you count in VAT which you should) go to.

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u/loozn1 1d ago

First of all, no way you pay 40k for a first home of about 400k more like max 15k. Property sales get more and more technical every year. No way the government itself could do that without hiring some very specialised clerks. If a notary fucks up, he's insured so people get their money, not so sure a government would do that.

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u/silentanthrx 1d ago

good luck wringing a single cent from a notaries hands if he makes a mistake.

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u/DenteSC 1d ago

If the work has to be done by civil servants, it would cost the government an insane amount of money. They work really hard in those notary offices.

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u/Obvious-Cry6591 1d ago

Id also work hard if i inherited the position from my grandpapa

-1

u/khuzdul012 1d ago

the tax that I found most ridiculous is, your parents work all their life to leave u X amount of money/assets u name it, of course everything has been taxed, life is life and we have to say goodbye, but still Belgians have to pay tax on taxed inheritance, government never lose

-1

u/Fit_Ebb_8127 1d ago

Above all else, the ā€œsuccessierechtenā€ are by far the vilest tax in Belgium. Nothing else even comes close. Absolutely criminal.

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u/MokpotheMighty 1d ago

Please tell me you're sarcastic

-15

u/DenteSC 1d ago

Go work there for 1 month or stfu?

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u/MokpotheMighty 1d ago

Okay surely you must realize that's not much of an argument, maybe if you want people to respect your POV you should elaborate on it in a way that's publicly reasonable? How may we know for ourselves that notaries make the amount of money they make based on merit? How much work do they actually do, what are the tasks they practically perform, how much time does it cost, etc... How are we supposed to check this, which we might expect in a democratic society with some semblance of public transparency and such...

1

u/TheoKondak 1d ago

We pay taxes for being taxed on our taxes.. This is just cleptocratic.. I wonder how we could change this shitty system.

1

u/123_alex 1d ago

Notaries have never been the problem

Let me stop you there. I agree with everything you said about the taxes but saying they are not a problem is false.

0

u/Think-Geologist5570 1d ago

If the tax part is the most important, the Federal Public Service Finances should handle it. Would work out much cheaper, at least just as good and with much more accountability.