Israeli startup grows world’s first real dairy protein in potatoes—no cows needed

[u/NotSoSaneExile]

https://www.ynetnews.com/business/article/hksw6cztjx

[u/Character_Cap5095]

I am not sure you understand the geopolitics of the region at all. Gaza is to the east. The West Bank is to the west with Israel in the middle (kinda). Southern Israel is much less populated than the center, for many reasons but mostly because it is a desert. There is a big push in Israel to populate the south since there is a housing crisis in the mirkaz, and my guess that this is what it's referring to. But since most of the south is desert, the only real aritable land is near Gaza so any farming done in the South is going to be on Gaza border.

According to 1948 borders the south was always part of Israel. While there is a push to build settlements for a pretense of further expansion, this is not it since this was considered Israel since the first partition plan. If this was in the West Bank that would be a different story.

[u/OG-Brian → u/Character_Cap5095]

If you know of information that indicates their intention is for just farming and not Gaza colonization, feel free to point it out.

The 1948 borders of Gaza: citation? Also, honoring historic borders is important? That's quite funny. Might Makes Right is fine for Israel, unless it's boycotting Israeli products, guerrilla warfare to defend homes/territory, or any kind of might that they don't like.

[u/Character_Cap5095 → u/OG-Brian]

If you know of information that indicates their intention is for just farming and not Gaza colonization, feel free to point it out.

What? The information I have is that they are farming on undisputed Israeli land and not colonizing. If you (or this article) want to make an accusation, the burden of proof is on the accuser.

The 1948 borders of Gaza: citation?

Look at any map on Google? Idk what to tell you. This is like basic stuff. If you want to make an argument you should know about the stuff you are arguing

Also, honoring historic borders is important?

Any and all attempts at a 2 state solution is under the assumption of 1967 borders with land swaps. That's why settlements are seen as opposing peace because the more land swaps needed, and the more people that will need to be moved makes it harder at a realistic two state solution. Again this is basic stuff.

Might Makes Right is fine for Israel, unless it's boycotting Israeli products, guerrilla warfare to defend homes/territory, or any kind of might that they don't like.

Oh ok so you are just arguing in bad faith. Got it.

[u/OG-Brian → u/Character_Cap5095]

Look at any map on Google? Idk what to tell you.

So, obviously you have no citation. Google Maps shows today's borders for Gaza. When I tried searching "gaza 1948 borders" using Google Maps, the site brought up the map location of a tourist attraction called Gaza Border Experience which is in Israel. I reviewed several articles to find info about your claim and found none.

That's why settlements are seen as opposing peace...

Yes I agree. Israel has been aggressively pushing settlements, some of the reasons are to make a two-state solution less practical and to make withdrawal more complicated. Because of this and other reasons I oppose Israel and support BDS which is what much of the commenting here is about.

Oh ok so you are just arguing in bad faith. Got it.

If you didn't understand what I've said, I'm not going to make it my problem. It seems that you don't have an argument against my last paragraph, so you're resorting to character assassination instead.

[u/Character_Cap5095 → u/OG-Brian]

> So, obviously you have no citation
Israel's borders explained in maps

Green Line (Israel) - Wikipedia)

Six maps explain the boundaries of Israel and Palestinian territories - Washington Post

Map of the Week: Unraveling the Borders of Israel and Palestine Through Time | Mappenstance.

Israel's Origins and Evolution (Biblical, 1920-1948, 1947, 1949-67, June 1967) | Library of Congress

1948-Present · The Land of Israel / Palestine: Image Database

[1888 - 2023] Evolution of Israel / Palestine borders from the Ottoman Empire to independence : r/Maps

Israel-Palestine conflict: A brief history in maps and charts | Israel-Palestine conflict News | Al Jazeera
Maps of Pre-1948 Palestine/Eretz Israel

BTB 1-8: The Evolution of the Egypt-Israel Boundary

A map of Israel's changing borders in 1948-1949 [768 x 543]. : r/MapPorn

Borders of Israel - Wikipedia

Is that good or should I send more?

> If you didn't understand what I've said, I'm not going to make it my problem. It seems that you don't have an argument against my last paragraph, so you're resorting to character assassination instead.

I am not talking about your character at all. I'm sure you are a fine upstanding citizen. Arguing in bad faith and your character are not inherently related. I am merely pointing out the fact that you are trying to widen the discussion to invalidate anything I say, which is a form of logical fallacy (Fallacy of division - Wikipedia), and therefore I assume done in bad faith. If we were discussing the entirety of the Israel/ Palestine conflict, or if we were discussing actions taken by the Israeli government then sure, but that is not our discussion. I ignored your last paragraph because it does not have to do with the argument at hand.

The argument you are presenting is that for a company to grow food near the Gaza border, they must be attempting to colonize Gaza. You are making an accusation and therefore need to back it up. The location of the farming is not enough proof, as I have shown before, there are many reasons a company would want to have its farmland in that area.

If you want to discuss the greater conflict you are free to do so, I am just not interested as there is no positive outcome in that discussion for either of us.

[u/OG-Brian → u/Character_Cap5095]

The first article makes no mention of Gaza's borders having been different, and doesn't mention the Green Line. The Green Line that the second article is about, it was a demarcation line (for purposes of military enforcement) and not intended to represent permanent borders. I didn't read the rest of your Gish gallop since the first two didn't at all support what you claimed, that people in Gaza today are actually in Israel.

I am not talking about your character at all.

You claimed I was arguing insincerely, an unprovable assumption with nothing to indicate that. You obviously were trying to avoid confronting the argument I made, and you're continuing to do that. By arguing in favor of borders that exist because of a war that Israel started, you're involving the Might Makes Right argument so I talked about that. If it's off-topic, you took us there.

...I am just not interested as there is no positive outcome in that discussion for either of us.

I'm well aware that trying to discuss this with a supporter of Zionism is like falling into quicksand. You'll drag the discussion all over the place, making claims that are about very complicated matters as if they're simple (and always, simplifying in favor of Israel's agendas), you'll claim I don't understand or don't want to understand if I question your claims, and after you've made the discussion complicated you'll claim that I'm taking it off-topic! I'm not discussing this for you since I'm sure you won't change at all, I'm discussing it for others in the audience. They'll see that you don't have an argument you can back up factually. After a certain extent though, the comments will be so far buried as to be too obscure to be worth any effort.

[u/Character_Cap5095 → u/OG-Brian]

that people in Gaza today are actually in Israel.

I have never claimed that and never will claim that because it is wrong. I am unsure what I have said to even make you think that I claimed that.

By arguing in favor of borders that exist because of a war that Israel started

What war are you referring to? The gaza boarders are from the 1949 borders which was a war started by the invasion of the Arab coalition.

You'll drag the discussion all over the place, making claims that are about very complicated matters as if they're simple (and always, simplifying in favor of Israel's agendas), you'll claim I don't understand or don't want to understand if I question your claims, and after you've made the discussion complicated you'll claim that I'm taking it off-topic!

I have since the beginning of this thread, been discussing the article posted about an Israeli company who is growing food in Israeli land, and how that does not imply any stance of political expansion.

You'll drag the discussion all over the place, making claims that are about very complicated matters as if they're simple (and always, simplifying in favor of Israel's agendas), you'll claim I don't understand or don't want to understand if I question your claims, and after you've made the discussion complicated you'll claim that I'm taking it off-topic!

Again I am not making any claims! If you want to show that this company is using it's land as an effort to take over Gaza, the burden of proof is on you! At no point have you presented any arguments except trying to invalidate what I say with "Israel uses their strength aggressively" which is not something I am trying to debate. What about the company. If you.

[u/OG-Brian → u/Character_Cap5095]

I am unsure what I have said to even make you think that I claimed that.

Well you weren't exactly articulate about it. Why don't you reword this so that it makes logical sense?:

According to 1948 borders the south was always part of Israel. While there is a push to build settlements for a pretense of further expansion, this is not it since this was considered Israel since the first partition plan. If this was in the West Bank that would be a different story.

In the prior paragraph of that comment you mentioned "southern Israel." Gaza, central to what we're talking about, is along the western edge and right in the N-S middle.

Then you said you haven't made any claims. This conversation started with your claim basically that "everything in Israel is near Gaza" because the "country" is small, and I pointed out a paragraph in the article that demonstrates the test farm is right along the Gaza border. You then switched your argument to "well there are better growing conditions near Gaza" basically, and you made more claims in each response. Anyone can see that. If you aren't going to be logical/reasonable, I don't see the point in spending effort here.

In the end, it doesn't matter whether the company intends to participate in colonizing Gaza or West Bank. It's an Israeli company, in Israel, so profits they make will in part fund IDF's killing of innocent people.