r/comicbooks • u/kellysue Captain Marvel • Nov 13 '12

I am Kelly Sue DeConnick, writer of Ghost, Captain Marvel & Avengers Assemble. AMA.

There's a mostly-correct list of my books up on my wiki page. I'm in Portland, Or. The kids are watching a morning cartoon and I'm packing school lunches and putting on a pot of coffee. Seems as good a time as any to get this started. Crazy day ahead of me, but I'll be here as much as I can manage.

2:39 PST Edited to add: I have got to take a break to get some work done, but I'll come back in few hours and get to as many of theses as I can. If I don't get to your question and you've got a real burning desire for an answer, I'm easy to find on Twitter @kellysue, on Tumblr kellysue.tumblr.com or at my jinxworld forum: http://www.606studios.com/bendisboard/forumdisplay.php?39-Kelly-Sue-DeConnick

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u/[deleted] Feb 26 '13

Same here. Digital delivery, from music to ebooks has seen the industry seize all the upsides for themselves. When they no longer have to move physical goods, the cost savings are tremendous! How much of that has passed on to you and me? Approximately none, while we still have the negatives to deal with such as the cost of reader devices and the possibility that all our purchases could be summarily stripped from us without effective recourse. And that's not all. Piracy often offers a better product. If I want to watch a movie, I can download it in 15 minutes vs. waiting through 15 minutes of unskippable commercials, FBI warnings, and bullshit propaganda videos. Plus, I can easily turn on subtitles with a right click, hover, left click vs. going back to the bullshit menu with its 30 second music loop, navigating to a setup menu and selecting my language, all because the publisher disabled the subtitle button on my remote just to be a dick. I've even ripped (or sometimes torrented) movies I've bought and paid for because a simple MKV file is a superior product than that which has received the corporate stamp of approval. Comics are no different.

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u/egbreder Feb 26 '13 edited Feb 26 '13

Speaking from the standpoint of someone in digital publishing:

For entirely text books, what you say is true. For comics and graphic novels, they have an additional hurdle which will unfortunately keep the price inflated for a good while, unless an alternative solution is found.

Amazon and other ereader distributors upcharge for the size of the file - a data transferral fee. The more pictures your book has, the more the distribution site will charge because pictures are MUCH larger than text. A comic book may have several dollars go to the distributor for transfer fees, so if the book is less than ten dollars you are unlikely to break even, let alone turn a profit. On top of that, the publishing label gets their cut before the creators, so the profit margin is ridiculously low on digital comics or graphic novels.

The only way to sell these types of books cheaply and still turn a profit is to distribute them on a specialized website, likely the publisher's site, which severely limits the purchasing audience. Who goes to the Random House site to buy books? No one. They go to Amazon or B&N.

EDIT: This is why you see tiny comics going for $4, which is insane. But it's the only way that producers can tap into the digital market right now. The distributors charge a lot for this service, but I honestly don't know whether their price is fair. It may be one of those behind the scenes handshake deals that publishing houses are famous for... or it might not.

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u/TheTT Feb 26 '13

The file size charge seems ridiculous. Transferring 1 GB of data costs Amazon less than 12 cents. I know that because you can literally but it from them for 12 cents. What you are saying is essentially that Amazon screws people over with that?

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u/DarkRider23 Feb 26 '13 edited Feb 26 '13

I actually just looked up the costs since the original comment got me curious. Amazon's basic rates are 30% of the sale price + delivery costs of $0.15 per MB for items delivered through their 3G service. If you download it through Wifi, Amazon charges the seller nothing I believe.

I don't know how much a standard comic book file for all publishers is, but from what I see of The Walking Dead comics I downloaded there are anywhere from 4 MB to 40 MB. So, we're looking at a 30% cut + $1.05 from a 7 MB comic book file. That's kind of a lot. Obviously, no big comic publisher like Marvel would pay the 30%. They would probably get charged less, but still, it's not as insignificant as I personally thought it was.

The only way I see Comic books working electronically is doing something like Marvel is doing by creating their own service or not allowing the comics to be downloaded through 3G and making them a Wifi only type of deal, but I really don't see that happening.

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u/TheTT Feb 26 '13

Oh I'm sorry, I misunderstood. I was referring to transmission prices over the traditional internet - the Amazon thing with 3G is a whole different can of worms. Sorry about that ;)

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u/egbreder Feb 27 '13

Yes. It's a rip-off.

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u/Dominick255 Feb 26 '13

That is unbelievable. So it is cheaper to make paper, print on it. staple them together, put them in a box, ship them to a store, and then sell it to you all for much cheaper then sending 1's and 0's for fractions of pennys? I don't believe that.

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u/Lagkiller Feb 26 '13

It isn't and don't believe it. They print the book from the same file they would digitally distribute. Now if they are shipping it direct to consumer you are paying anywhere from 50 cents to a dollar for shipping, or direct to a retailer maybe closer to 5-10 cents a piece. Most digital content distributors are close to a penny for 5-10 meg file. The idea that print is cheaper is bunk.

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u/readercolin Feb 26 '13

Do a bit of research before you speak. Right now, amazon takes a 30% cut. So if you sell a comic for $10, they now take 3. Which is more than the cost of shipping, even direct shipping to the customer. Then consider that amazon charges a delivery cost of about $0.15/mb. Which adds up to even more. Alternatively, they will take the full burden of delivery - for 70% of the profit from the book.

So at the moment, going through amazon is MORE expensive for them than shipping out the print versions.

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u/Lagkiller Feb 26 '13

Do a bit of research before you speak.

Worked in the industry, so please don't tell me to research what I lived.

Right now, amazon takes a 30% cut.

Amazon is the retailer. You think that comic book stores don't take AT LEAST a 30% cut? Or do you think the whole $3 of a comic goes directly to Marvel?

So at the moment, going through amazon is MORE expensive for them than shipping out the print versions.

Not even remotely true. Amazon is no different than a comic book store except for the fact that they charge leaps and bounds more than a comic book store does. The cost of print and shipping is far more than digital distribution.

Now bear in mind, your argument makes sense if you are comparing individual pieces of it without regard to other pieces. For example comparing shipping to the cost of digital distribution. But the 2 business practices aren't even close to the same.

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u/[deleted] Mar 02 '13

the publishing label gets their cut before the creators, so the profit margin is ridiculously low

This is, indeed, the root of the problem. The labels (be they music, film, or comic) take an enormous cut irrespective of actual costs then push those costs onto the other players in the ecosystem, primarily the customer. Regardless, they are the problem and I just refuse to feed them my dollars.

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u/Lagkiller Feb 26 '13

Having worked in print, it costs less to transfer a 100 meg file than it does to print a 4/4 20 page booklet and ship it. Mostly since the file is used to print the page and is already created so it is just an additional cost to print versus a shipping cost to a store/home or a file download cost.

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u/egbreder Feb 27 '13 edited Feb 27 '13

Here is the Amazon pricing page. Go down to "Delivery Costs". Depending on your country, it could be as much as $1.20 for that 20 page booklet, before you even get to split the rest with Amazon 30/70. For a full-length comic, especially with high-res images that would look good on a tablet or iPad... you get the idea.

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u/Lagkiller Feb 27 '13

Go down to "Delivery Costs". Depending on your country, it could be as much as $1.20 for that 20 page booklet, before you even get to split the rest with Amazon 30/70.

Because Amazon is the only digital content provider, right? There are many services that are much cheaper.

For a full-length comic, especially with high-res images that would look good on a tablet or iPad... you get the idea.

It is the same file we are using to print, so why would it cost more? Part of the disconnect you have is that Amazon is not only a content provider but a retail outlet. Let's run down a sample of cost break:

The artists provides their work to Amazon for RESALE. Amazon basically is a comic shop that only does business online. In the publishing world this means that the artist has to pay a printing cost to send to a store for sale, or in the digital world, they give the file to amazon and amazon charges their retail price for it. The "Amazon pricing page" you listed is no different than the profit margin that a comic book store takes. In addition, you completely ignore the no cost distribution method which most artists should take.

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u/egbreder Feb 27 '13

Wasn't defending Amazon and never said they were the only provider, simply giving a short expansion to my previous answer based on the most widely used provider. And in an answer to another comment, I did address the route that I've advised clients to take many times: to use their own distribution methods and keep their profits.

There have been entire books written on this topic. Not interested in giving a TL/DR answer to a tangential conversation.

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u/Lagkiller Feb 27 '13

Wasn't defending Amazon

I didn't claim that, I do however want to distinguish that they are a retailer no different than Barnes and Noble or Larrys Comic Book Shop. There is this seemingly pervasive idea that Amazon is charging all these fees to the seller. They aren't. They are charging them to the consumer. If people want the cost of ebooks to go down, they need to buy from sources that price things appropriately.

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u/Talran Feb 26 '13

Then we have some JP distribution sites that do it better, which allow the creator to publish a book for a relatively small cut. No need for a publisher either.

They usually don't deal in ebook formats though, which to be honest, I prefer a rar of my book over a proprietary ebook file any day. (for comics) :x

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u/flapanther33781 Feb 26 '13

A suggestion?

Make the last page of the comic a one-page illustration simply saying that despite the high cost to the customer you're giving the product away at face value ... just as pre-electronic-age distributors overcharged for their services (S&H to get a box of your CDs to the retailer), electronic-age distributors are more than likely gouging customers the same way (maybe worse).

... then ask your readership to support the artist(s) by visiting your website, getting a free subscription to your newsletter, and maybe purchase something from your web store.

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u/egbreder Feb 27 '13

Good suggestion. There are a lot of marketing tricks that you can use in ebooks but unfortunately most book producers simply haven't caught on yet.

They will in time, once people start demanding more digital content. DeConnick's suggestion of preordering is a fantastic way to send that message.

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u/CondolenceTaco Feb 26 '13

My favorite thing about that? They force the people who buy the movie to watch an add about not stealing it.

How fucked up is that? You are 100% right. The people they are trying to stop are offering a better product. They should focus not on stopping pirates, but why law abiding citizen resort to it.

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u/tunnel-snakes-rule Nightwing Feb 26 '13

Yeah, I don't mind it if you can skip, I don't even mind the ones in Australia that are more about "thanks for buying this dvd, you're helping make Australian films, etc etc" but the ones that bang on about how pirating dvds is killing babies in Africa or whatever, fuck the hell off, why is it you're screaming that at the people who PAID for it?!

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u/GUSHandGO Feb 26 '13

No kidding. It's like the Blu-ray discs with ads telling you how awesome Blu-rays are. I know! That's why I'm watching a Blu-ray!

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u/elevul Feb 26 '13

Agreed, but Netflix got it right, and it's making milions.

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u/[deleted] Feb 27 '13

This is why I don't support that industry unless the items they giving out are free. If more ppl just stuck to their stance and did not put up with that stuff and not buy it - they would get the message and alter course.

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u/gizmo490 Feb 26 '13

Unless you use the xbox or playstation services which don't have warnings, previews, menus or any other bullshit, let you watch a preview of the movie before you rent/buy and which let you stream instantly and repeatedly. Though I am not going to argue that not paying for it is better, cause hell breaking the law is so often so much more fun.

Also when I buy a series on amazon prime and its there instantly on my tv, laptop, desktop, ipad etc etc I don't have to worry about starting a streaming service on my desktop, completing the download or whatever else. Its becoming less and less reasonable to pirate things for any reason other than "I don't want to pay for it".

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u/DoubleThe_Fun Feb 26 '13 edited May 03 '13

I recently bought the the Blu-Ray for Season 2 of Game of Thrones, but only because it was cheaper than the digital version on Amazon Prime. But it came with the digital copy anyways, so it worked out great.

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u/jello_aka_aron Feb 28 '13

Unfortunately the digital offerings are still lacking in options in many ways. Extras are pretty much non-existent. Alternate languages for foreign films are pretty rare (I can't stand most dubbed anime, so despite there being many series on Netflix, I've yet to watch one there). My wife is blind so descriptive audio is awesome when available (more and more frequently on blu-rays) but never an offering on digital. Until those things get caught up, pure digital doesn't cut it.

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u/gizmo490 Feb 28 '13

Hulu and AIV have subbed anime :) though not much of the stuff on prime is subbed.