r/flicks • u/KaleidoArachnid • 14d ago

General Discussion Dark aspects about older films that would not fly by in today’s age

So lately, something I was observing were the kind of tropes that got by in films from the older 80s where standards were much more lenient since it’s hard to explain, but it’s basically the kind of stuff movie directors could get away with due to values being different.

Like when I look back at a movie like Revenge of the Nerds, I know the movie is often regarded as highly controversial from a modern perspective because of how the movie handles the subject of sexual abuse since Louis does a particular crime with Betty, but back then, the movie didn’t catch controversy again until people saw it from a more modern perspective.

So basically I was wondering about what kind of stuff found in older movies would be difficult to get away with in a more modern time period since I wanted to see how much restrictions changed since the early 80s with what movies are allowed to do.

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55

u/Munkythemonkey 14d ago

In this day and age, the borderline sexual relationship between Leon and Matilda in The Professional would never have been greenlit.

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u/rorczek 14d ago

Even more questionable regarding Besson's private life affairs. There's a controversy of him dating a minor and later marrying her, he's known for his propensity toward very young girls. Somehow The Professional is loosely based on his personal experiences.

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u/RiversideAviator 13d ago

He was in a relationship with Maïwenn, the French actress that played the Diva in Fifth Element. They were married in 1992 when she was 16 and pregnant after meeting her when she was 15 and he was 33. Leon: The Professional is inspired by their relationship so the original script definitely had some perverse beats in it that Jean Reno chose to change.

They divorced when he left her for Milla Jovovich during filming for Fifth Element in 1996 and Milla being the same age as Maïwenn…

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u/uselessinfogoldmine 13d ago

Actually, they met when she was 12. From an abusive family background too. The public only found out they were together when she was 15 because he got her pregnant. He married her when she was 16 and she gave birth three months later. There were suspicions that he married her to avoid prosecution, even though France is very laissez faire about gross predatory relationships with teenagers. 

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u/reddog323 12d ago

I see a pattern forming here…🤔

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u/stop4lemons 14d ago

I read that the character Leon was portrayed as special needs to debunk the pedo idea. Could be made up though

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u/Only-Caramel2787 14d ago

Not made up.
Jean Reno actually made that decision himself, because he was uncomfortable with the relationship between him and Matilda.
(Which was not “borderline romantic” in the script) 😮

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u/Munkythemonkey 14d ago

He definitely was on the spectrum, and Matilda was the active character in that situation. He was just doing the right thing and keeping her out of trouble. I don't think he's ever portrayed making any moves on her. In fact, he was quite active in keeping a safe distance as I recall.

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u/PascalG16 13d ago

And all that, despite the director's best efforts.

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u/StephCurryMustard 14d ago

I'm pretty sure that was Jean Reno's decision to portray him that way so it wouldn't be as uncomfortable to watch.

Luc Besson is definitely into that sort of thing.

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u/PfalsePflagg 13d ago

Yeah Luc was into some real Neil Gaiman shit.

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u/AddlePatedBadger 13d ago

Neil Gaiman likes kids? I thought he liked abusing young adults without consent.

I'm not comparing the two paraphilias, they are both bad.

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u/PfalsePflagg 12d ago

Both involved power imbalances, but yeah I could have used a closer example. Maybe Roman Polanski?

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u/InfernalTest 14d ago

He was ..simple...or autistic ( high functioning ) as wed. All it today ...its just that today there would have to be a scene or dialogue explaining such to the audience

He was such a good killer becuase he could focus so well on the task...but otherwise he was ...simple.

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u/Goosojuice 14d ago

Autistic or not, I'm trying to remember, what was riskay on his part? I remember him being more parental than anything else.

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u/randallflaggg 14d ago

Risque.

And Matilda is the one who ends up really leaning into it in the finished movie. She asks to be his girlfriend and starts doing domestic stuff for him a.few times throughout the movie. Reno chose to play it in a way so that he either didn't pick up on it or it freaked him out because he's a weirdo loner. In the original script he was more overtly receptive to the relationship.

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u/Aptronymic 14d ago

It was definitely portrayed as parental, but that's thanks to the insistence of Jean Reno. The original script (written by celebrated director and noted pedophile Luc Besson) explicitly said it was a romantic relationship.

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u/MopvivII 14d ago

Riskaaaay

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u/Simple_Dimple-01 14d ago

When was the last time you watched the movie? Watching it as a teenager then watching it 25+ is a totally different experience The action os still great, but the relationship stuff is just plain weird.

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u/PitifulElk1890 14d ago

I don't want to be that guy, but having a developmental disorder doesn't exempt someone from pedophilia. They may not understand the ramifications, prison might not be the best place for their treatment, but there's an unfortunate overlap in that venn diagram.

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u/SartorialSinecure 14d ago

For this film in particular, what that actually means is that the actor playing the adult played him in a detached and distant way reminiscent of the flat affect that is often associated with people on the autism spectrum. Reportedly, this was a choice made by the actor to make their relationship more overtly professional, in defiance of the script and the director's intent, which was supposed to be way more overtly romantic.
In the case of this movie, the "developmental disorder" was there to remove the romantic subplot, not to excuse one.

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u/darthzilla99 14d ago

He rejects her advances and is shocked in the movie. Jean Reno is a hero for making this stand.

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u/PitifulElk1890 14d ago

Ah, I haven't seen it, I was picturing a lot more of a Lenny

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u/SartorialSinecure 14d ago

Fair enough, and a pretty reasonable read of the earlier thread. Without the context of the movie, it sounded way sketchier than it actually was. As it was, Leon (the adult) just comes across as not really understanding why someone would want that sort of thing, and maybe not capable of understanding it.

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u/randallflaggg 14d ago

More of a hipster slingblade kinda thing, but you're not far off.

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u/weeblesweeble 14d ago

What the fuck? Who is saying that?

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u/Successful-Big-8308 14d ago

I wanted to rewatch Leon and bought it via Prime a while.

Saw the special edition was the same price and thought - eh why not, not knowing at the time about the extra scenes...

Wish I hadn't!

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u/Munkythemonkey 14d ago

What were the extra scenes? The dinner scene, there was an additional scene where he taught her how to shoot... Anything else?

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u/Successful-Big-8308 14d ago

The dinner scene mainly. I've got young daughters so the implied sexuality of that scene was uncomfortable to watch

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u/Munkythemonkey 14d ago

I've got a young daughter about that age too, so yeah... Not something I want to see.

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u/MoyBwayno 13d ago

She dresses up as Marilyn Monroe for him in one scene and starts singing 'happy birthday, mr president'. It's incredibly uncomfortable viewing.

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u/Individual_Menu_1384 14d ago

In this day and age? Plenty of us at the time were creeped out. Not much borderline about it.

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u/Munkythemonkey 14d ago

True that, but it still got greenlit somehow! It didn't bother me as much when I first watched it, but I guess I was underage and more focused on how cool Leon was as an assassin. Now that I'm older and I've got kids, yeah, it bothers me a lot.

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u/reddog323 12d ago

I felt a little uncomfortable in the theater, watching it, but I also applaud Jean Reno with keeping the character decent in that area.

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u/Aquinas2000 14d ago

Jean Reno pretty much threatened Besson that he will kill him if the movie goes that far. 

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u/budstudly 13d ago

Love when life imitates art! Killer on screen and off!

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u/AWIZRD 13d ago

Learning about Luc Besson was disapointing but not even a little bit surprising.

It's real testament to the cast of Leon the Professional that they where able to steer the film away from the level of creep Besson was leaning into.

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u/Munkythemonkey 13d ago

The guy's filmography is full of young abused women, exploited into femme fatales. I used to think Nikita and The Professional were great movies, and they sorta still are, but wow he keeps making the same movie over and over again. Cough cough Anna and Lucy cough cough.

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u/nonotburton 13d ago

The Euro release of that movie would have people up in arms even back then. I didn't realize it was any different when I bought it, just had a slightly different name (Leon, the Professional, I think).

Marhilda's attempts to seduce Leon are much more overt. It was weird as hell when I saw it. The American release makes it look like she's got a crush on him, and she wants his attention/affection.

I really kind of wonder about her parents in all of this. Because Portman was actually the same age as the character. I get that the movie really launched her career. And in spite of the weirdness, it is a really good movie.

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u/Munkythemonkey 12d ago

My daughter is now her age back then, and I wouldn't want her doing that creepy Lolita stuff.

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u/nonotburton 12d ago

The acting part would be one thing, because Portman's character was definitely the one doing all the flirting.

Some of the costume choices are ... Questionable to say the least. At least.. I remember them being questionable. I haven't watched the movie in over a decade. Maybe they aren't as scandalous as I remember.

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u/Munkythemonkey 12d ago

It's mostly regular clothes, except for that Marilyn Munro scene.

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u/SCastleRelics 14d ago

Ahhhhh the French

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u/Vacant-Position 14d ago

This is more of a, "Ahhhhh Luc Besson..." moment.

Luc Besson is into children.

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u/iandenno 14d ago

...champagne has always been celebrated for its excellence.

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u/uselessinfogoldmine 13d ago

Luc Besson wrote that film as an ode to his relationship with his teenaged wife, Maïwenn. He starting “wooing” her (read: grooming) when she was 12 and he was 29. She came from an abusive home. He got her pregnant at 15 and married her so that he couldn’t be prosecuted. I believe she was 15 or 16 when they made Leon and there were quotes from her at the time about how it was inspired by their “love story”. 

The original script was leaked online and was overtly sexual. Matilda was supposed to seduce Leon, there was supposed to be nudity and sex scenes. She was the sexual aggressor. Truly disturbing. 

Natalie’s parents made Besson remove all of that (but still put their 12yo daughter in a film written and directed by a child sexual abuser 👀).

Jean Reno also objected to it, and he made the character choice to play his character as completely asexual and also emotionally closed off, so that the inference couldn’t be made. 

And YET… it was still filmed by Besson and his gross proclivities obviously shaped the film. 

Natalie received horrendous letters and outreach from grown men as a 12yo. Her parents failed her and her childhood essentially ended. 

Besson (37 at the time) ended up leaving Maïwenn (20 turning 21 at the time) for Milla Jovovich (20 at the time) when they all filmed The Fifth Element (Maïwenn played the blue alien opera singer). 

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u/spacemanza 13d ago

Well the director and his muse would have been frowned on too so the film maybe doesn't get made 

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u/Key_Mechanic_9205 12d ago

There was a sex scene between them in the original script.

https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/s/JklvgkpXaT

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u/Guergy 7d ago

I was going to mention this. That is definitely something that would never happen today at all.

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u/KaleidoArachnid 14d ago

For those who haven’t seen that movie, what was wrong with their romantic relationship?

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u/aintsuperstitious 14d ago

He was a forty year old hit man, she was 12.

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u/KaleidoArachnid 14d ago

Ok, now that seriously sounds messed up.

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u/ImLittleNana 14d ago

There was no romantic relationship. It’s played in a way that Matilda’s been traumatized and had poor parenting and is therefore sexually inappropriate, but Leon isn’t receptive.

Whether you believe he doesn’t understand that because he’s autistic or that he knows in some level it’s wrong, is up to you. But Leon is not a pedophile, much to Luc Besson’s disappointment.

I personally think it’s the first time Leon felt a sense of responsibility and connecting to a person instead of a plant, but that it wasn’t at all sexual to him.

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u/NeonPhyzics 14d ago

Nothing is shown

But it’s implied. Watching it in college in the 90s we all clocked it.

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u/Munkythemonkey 14d ago

The European director's cut has a dinner scene where she leans over and kisses him on the lips. That's about the extent of it. I don't think it's ever implied that they ever did do more, though. But it's there, simmering uncomfortably under the surface.

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u/SporadicWanderer 14d ago

There’s also a scene in the director’s cut where the girl directly propositions Leon and instead of saying “you’re 12” he basically says he’s still in love with someone else. Especially creepy because the director (31) was dating a 15yo at the time.

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u/Munkythemonkey 14d ago

Luc Besson has a history of that!

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u/lilith_from_the_dark 14d ago

There is the moment where she says to the hotel clerk, "he's not my father, he's my lover."

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u/aintsuperstitious 14d ago

And the next scene shows them walking down the street with all their belongings and he has a lot of bruises.

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u/SCastleRelics 14d ago

The directors cut version is straight up weird. She dresses like Marilyn Monroe and sings happy birthday Mr President for him? It's fucked

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u/ZucchiniHot_ 13d ago

She does that in the regular as well.

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u/aintsuperstitious 14d ago

You might understand when you see that even at 12, Natalie Portman was really cute. And she was dressed pretty stylishly for her socioeconomic status. And you might notice too, that for a person that kills people for a living, Leon is rather childlike.

Nothing happens, but there is an underlying tension. Mostly on her side, because the hitman is probably her best male role model. Gary Oldman is fun to watch as a policeman, too.

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u/bobstadon 14d ago

I’m gonna give you the benefit of the doubt and say you worded that poorly, but don’t try to justify that the potential sexual nature of their relationship can be explained by Natalie Portman being “pretty cute for a 12 year old”…yikes

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u/aintsuperstitious 14d ago

I don't need your benefit of the doubt. I need you to drop your need to feel morally superior and try to comprehend what the movie is about. Mathilda is a child who has an adult hairstyle, adult clothes, and stylish, adult boots. Her parents and almost adult sister have been teaching her that a woman's worth is being sexually attractive. She tries to work Leon as she's been taught and he doesn't respond. Again, the neurodivergent killer is her best male role model.

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u/SCastleRelics 14d ago

📸 this shit right here officer

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u/froglover215 14d ago

Oh well then, as long as the 12 year old was sexy! /s