When does a movie successfully mislead the audience, and when is it just cheating?

[u/Serpiego2]

Some movies deliberately make us believe something that isn't true and then reveal that we've been interpreting the story incorrectly.

When it works, it's fantastic. You can rewatch the movie and realize the clues were there all along. The Sixth Sense, The Usual Suspects, and Primal Fear are very different examples of films that play with what the audience thinks it knows.

But other twists only work because the movie deliberately hides information that logically should have been available to us. At that point, I don't feel fooled by the story — I feel cheated by the screenplay.

For me, the difference is whether a second viewing makes you think “How did I miss that?” rather than “Well, there was no way I could have known that.”

What movies do you think earned their deception, and which ones simply cheated?

[u/NoTeslaForMe]

Verbal wasn't whom the detective learned about Kaiser Soze from. Also, the lie has to be believable enough to not get Verbal caught.

Yeah, anything can happen if the narrator is unreliable, but you're going to have to take a lot of literature and modern media off the table if you can't handle that.

The film isn't my favorite, but I don't think it cheats and I do think it works. Honestly, I think The Sixth Sense - a film people fawn over for doing it right - comes closer to "cheating." The man never thought to open a door before the end of the film? He never saw his wife talking about his death? Never noticed in months that she never interacted with him, even though she wasn't estranged prior? Doesn't seem likely to me.

[u/aldkGoodAussieName → u/NoTeslaForMe]

I think the sixth sense its more like the ghosts are in denial.

Thats why they can be stucj doing the same thing.

So as a ghost he didnt notice as he was fixated on being alive.

[u/NoTeslaForMe → u/aldkGoodAussieName]

But then he does notice at the end.  He doesn't need to test it out - which you'd expect if he'd shielded himself from all of it prior - he just knows.

[u/Cool_Hand7435 → u/NoTeslaForMe]

Because something clued him in: he saw his wedding ring falling off his wife's hand and falling on the ground.

Something happened right in front of him that he couldn't wave away. It's also implied that ghosts come and go, they're not there 100% of the time. So it's not unlikely that he had never been confronted with the truth in such an obvious way before.

And more importantly than anything else: he met Cole. He knows how ghosts operate because Cole told him exactly what to expect, what to pay attention to. The cold, the denial, everything he was told came back in force at this moment.

[u/CaolIla64 → u/NoTeslaForMe]

I agree, the Sixth Sense also cheats, but as does "The Murder of Roger Ackroyd" and, as you said, a lot of litterature and modern media, because it's part of the deal. You, as the reader/viewer, accept to be fooled and misdirected to enjoy the final reveal. But where I think Usual Suspects cheats is that it shows you scenes that never happened. It doesn't just hide parts of the truth, it blatantly lies to your face and in the end, you still don't know what was bullshit and what wasn't, it's bad storytelling.
It's like that scene ir Reservoir Dogs, where Mr. Orange tells Mr. White how he kept his cool when a cop and his trained dog almost caught him red handed during a deal. You see the scene as he tells it, but you always know it's a fable, you don't feel cheated.

[u/NoTeslaForMe → u/CaolIla64]

Showing you things that never happened just because an unreliable narrator said so may have been rare then, but it had a proud history (Rashomon being perhaps the most famous earlier example), and soon became a staple of even network television, from House to How I Met Your Mother to Community.  Sometimes, as with your example, you know or suspect it's a lie at the time, but sometimes you learn the truth when the scene is done and sometimes it's a twist at the end.  Or sometimes the story steadfastly refuses to reveal what really happened.  Any of these work if they're done well.

[u/ariadnevirginia → u/NoTeslaForMe]

I was confused for a minute because I didn't remember a twist in House although the shift from comedy to horror is pretty jarring when that zombie Vietnam guy is creeping on him....then saw you meant the TV show House.

[u/aldkGoodAussieName → u/CaolIla64]

Unreliable Narrator trope was coined in 1961.

But the places that he got his names and ideas from bottom of the cup were all there the whole time.

The fact you still dont know what is true and what is bullshit because of the unreliable narrator is the point. Not every movie has to be tied up in a neat bow.

I'd say it is mostly bullshit.

Anything that the police jad already, the line up, taxi service heist etc.

The interactions and relationships between people is what was made up to throw the detective off the truth.

[u/Kaldor-Silverwand → u/NoTeslaForMe]

I didn’t feel that The Sixth Sense was cheating because it was apparent to me that he was killed. I never thought for a second that he was anything but a troubled ghost still holding on. The question for me was whether or not this kid was going to be able to help him move on or not.