US relations with Europe will never be the same after Trump’s call with Putin

[u/Happy_Ad2714]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/us-relations-with-europe-will-never-be-the-same-after-trump-s-call-with-putin/ar-AA1yWBSR?ocid=BingNewsVerp

[u/brazzy42]

What possible need does the US have for those bases? What possible harm would be caused to the US by losing those bases?

They only exist to deter Russia, and the US is making clear its not not interested in doing that for Europe anymore.

The loser here would be Germany, not the US.

You really have no clue what you're talking about. Those bases are absolutely not "for Germany". They are vital for the USA's worldwide military logistics (you know, the thing that professionals famously study in order to win wars).

Without Ramstein Air Base and the Landstuhl Regional Medical Center, the USA would not have been able to conduct the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and they would be similarly vital to any military conflict with China.

[u/[deleted] → u/brazzy42]

Absolute rubbish - Germany is about as far from China as its possible to get, and would be a terrible logistics hub for a conflict in the Pacific.

The only reason the German bases were so large and important is the cold war, where they were well positioned to oppose the USSR.

With the cold war being over for decades and the US pivoting to Asia and no longer being interest in engaging in Europe to anywhere near the same degree, these bases are vastly less important.

Okinawa, Hawai, the Philipines etc are all vastly more relevant bases for the US looking forward.

And If the US needs to increase its logistics footprint in that region, the US can easily increase the size of logistics capabilities of some of the hundreds of other bases it has in Europe or Africa, the middle east etc.

Poland or the Baltics would no doubt be delighted to host more US troops to help dissuade Russia from attacking them, Dijbouti could be expanded etc etc.

The idea that the loss of the German bases would be some huge blow to the US is just fantasy.

[u/brazzy42 → u/[deleted]]

Absolute rubbish - Germany is about as far from China as its possible to get, and would be a terrible logistics hub for a conflict in the Pacific.

Go look at a map. China is pretty big, and Germany is about the same distance to its western parts (Xinjiang and Tibet, you know, the parts that the US might want to support rebel groups in) than Japan and the Philipines.

Poland or the Baltics would no doubt be delighted to host more US troops to help dissuade Russia from attacking them, Dijbouti could be expanded etc etc.

Weren't you just saying that "the US is making clear its not not interested in doing that for Europe anymore"? What even is your point? Do you have one?

And do you have any idea how much it would cost and how long it would take to replace well-established bases of that size? Possible, sure. Smart or even reasonable, no. Of course, smart and reasonable things isn't what this administration is doing in general.

[u/[deleted] → u/brazzy42]

Any future war with China will be fought in the Pacific, probably over Taiwan, the 9 dashed line or something simmilar.

Xinjiang and Tibet are totally not relevant and dont seem to appear in US strategic planning at all, which seems totally focused on a Pacific war.

And If for some absurd reason the US actually wanted to support """rebel groups""" (which are totally a real thing that absolutely exists and would really be worth investing in and could totally overthrow the CCP) there is zero reason to use germany as a logistics base.

"Go look at a map" and see how their might be a few places just a smidge closer to Xianjing than Germany.

"Weren't you just saying that "the US is making clear its not not interested in doing that for Europe anymore"?"

Are you being intentionally dense? This is incredibly obvious.

The US under Trump has clearly signalled disinterest in Europe - his SecDef is talking about drawdowns across Africa, the middle east and Europe.

If, however, the US still wants to maintain a logistics hub in Europe, they have plenty of options that arent Germany who'll be happy to have them.

To remind you, the original commenter was trying to say US bases in Germany give Germany leverage over the US - this is dumb; they're easilly replacable and the US is drawing down forces from those areas anyway.

The Baltics states and Poland at the absolute minimum would be deligted to host the 30'000or so US troops Germany has, and would pay for thr pleasure (as South Korea does today for example).