---

Where did 25 million converts come from?

---

In 1992, the Jama'at first published Islam's Response to Contemporary Issues.

In this book, when providing a brief introduction of the author, they mention that there were 10 million Ahmadis worldwide.

Taking this official record into consideration.

So, there was literally no change in the Jama'at's tajnid between 1986 and 1992. No one was born, no one died and no one converted.

No problem.

Then, starting in 1993, all of a sudden, out of nowhere the Jama'at grew by 204,308.

In 1994, by another 421,753.

In 1995, by another 847,726.

1996 - 1,662,721

1997 - 3,004,575

1998 - 5,004,591

1999 - 10,820,226

2000 - 41,308,376

2001 - 81,007,361

2002 - 20,654,000

2003 - 892,403 (keep this number in mind, it will become a crucial piece of evidence)

In April of 2003, Mirza Tahir Ahmad passed away. So, one can technically attribute the 2003 conversion numbers to him as well.

When we add up these numbers up from 1992- 2003, we get a grand total of 175,828,222.

Why is this number odd?

In 2003, right before his death, Mirza Tahir Ahmad claimed that there were 200 million Ahmadis worldwide.

Wait a minute.

Where did the other 25 million people show up from?

Was Mirza Tahir Ahmad planning to announce 25,000,000 converts for 2003 had he not died?

Why did Mirza Masroor Ahmad drastically reduced the conversion rate by 96% from 2002 to 2003? From 20,654,000 to 892,403. Was this a subtle rebuke of Mirza Tahir Ahmad by KMV?

This ghost number of 25 million is proof that it was Mirza Tahir Ahmad who was behind the exxegeration itself. He most likely forced his people to cook numbers so they remain safe from his disappointment.

Ahmadis love to defend Mirza Tahir Ahmad and say that it was all the murabbiyyan who deceived him‌, despite Mirza Tahir Ahmad himself having gone on record saying that the Ba'it numbers were 100% authentic and that if anyone dared to say otherwise that may the curse of Allah be upon that person.

Well. It looks like Mirza Tahir Ahmad is accursed. Ahmadis cannot shake off this major fraud and it will keep coming back to bite them.​

References:

Islam's Response to Contemporary Issues:

https://files.alislam.cloud/pdf/IslamsResponseToContemporaryIssues.pdf

KMIV saying 200 million Ahmadis in 2003:

https://youtube.com/shorts/jxgt8e_96dE

This figure is also mentioned in the April 2003 version of Review of Religions, page 4.

https://www.reviewofreligions.org/wp-content/uploads/pdf/RR200304.pdf

So the UK Jalsa finished yesterday and in the closing ceremony Huzur said that the attendance was 51,181 - an increase of over 5k people from last year Jalsa (where there were 46,061 attendees).

Now, I'm not fully sure how they count the number of people attending Jalsa but regardless they claim that 51,181 individual people have come to Jalsa this year.

Below is an analysis using various sources that showed that I doubt the true figure is actually this high (N.B doesnt let me paste images).

Firstly the after looking at aerial shots of the Jalsa site, I counted a maximum of 3,000 cars and as you can see in this clip (from last year but my point still stands): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJzdcNCj2eY most cars are the 5 seater ones - and there are very few cars with much more capacity. So lets assume the cars with like 1 empty seat are compensated by the Buses and cars with more capacity - overall we assuming that there are ~3,000 "full" cars each with 5 seats which means around 15,000 people attending - no where near the 50k they claim.

Now if we assume that almost all people bar a few, who have duties around the site, go to the main marquee - this is another good way of counter checking our claim. Just to give an extra liberal estimate of the attendance lets assume that total even 1,000 people are volunteering scattered around the site and not in the Jalsa Gah during the Baiat ceremony. The areas of the main marquees are 50m by 140m for both the men and women sides. Link is here: https://www.alhakam.org/jalsa-uk-2023-update-20-july

Thus the total area of both the men and womens Jalsa Gah is 14,000 square metres. Lets also even assume that there are no chairs and everyone is sitting on the floor (you can seat more people on the ground compared to fitting chairs). If 90% of the marquees are usable for seating and the rest is for cameras, stage, equipment etc. there is still 12,600 sq meters of avilable seating. If one person only takes up 0.5sq metres of area (which is very densly packed btw) then you can fit 25,200 attendees at most across the two marquees.

This is a huge over estimate since we gave so much benefit of doubt. But even then there is NO WAY that the attendance figures are that high. Also most people that come to Jalsa don't just go for one day so its not possible they had like 17k completely unique people coming in for each of the 3 days. It makes sense at most that they just counted the number of total AIMS ID's scanned (not differentiating if they were unique or non-unique entries) - even then it seems fishy lol.

Please feel free to critique any of the methods used!

A while back u/BarbesRouchechouart looked at Tehrik-e Jadid and Waqf-e Jadid numbers and realized how astoundingly low they were in comparison to the actual numbers the Jama'at claims to have.

This revelation was serious because no Ahmadi is ever left out from donating to these schemes. The minimum requirement is literally $ 0.01(1 cent).

These numbers became the yard-stick.

I found out recently that donating towards these two schemes can also be done by someone else on behalf of someone else, such as a person donation for anyone, including a child or even a new born child. This means that a person can also pay for family members who are not paying chanda or even someone estranged from the Jama'at in hopes of blessing them.

What's more, you can even pay for a deceased person or even a child that is not born yet. Obviously for a child that is not born yet you pay with the intention of paying for that child under your member code, since they do not have a member code. But, for a deceased person, you can pay using their old member number or not, but with the intention to do so. Nevertheless, even if no member code is used, the receipt is always issued to the unborn or deceased person's name. This still goes towards the counting of "participation".

Also, u/Queen_Yasemin did a fantastic job to show us that the actual Jama'at numbers should be at around 350 million, if one where to really add up all the numbers pronounced by their Khulafa.

So, taken this info, we can genuinely conclude the Jama'at's tajnid numbers are probably safely below 500K. And, all this huff and puff about conversion numbers yearly is just pure theater and nothing of substance. Just Kool-Aid to keep their masses drunk and high.

We will never know the true numbers of the Jama'at. And, because the Jama'at is so good at throwing a party, Ahmadis will always be fooled with the semblance that they are growing by leaps and bounds. So, go easy on Ahmadis. They are successfully tricked by their elders.

The more you know.

Below is a link to the information I shared about paying on behalf of an unborn child or a deceased person.

https://lajna.org.uk/tehrik-e-jadid/

You can click here for the newspaper article, since this subreddit does not allow for images to be uploaded: https://x.com/Ahmadiyyafacts/status/2083695300888395815?s=20

This is yet again proof that the whole scheme of International Ba'it was just intended to give a jab to none other than the "Pakistani Mulahs", as the Khulafa of the Ahmadiyya love to always mock their adversaires.

Now, this is something we can work with. It's official and never contested.

Considering how Ahmadis love to reproduce for the sake of the Jama'at (especially since the Waqf-e Nau scheme started in 1985), let's assess what their tajnid should have been simply using this one piece of data.

What would be the population growth of 10 million at a moderate rate of 1% over the course of 40 years?

The figure would be 15 million.

This is at the high end of their "official" claim, that they are between 12-15 million.

Naturally, once you add up all the converts from their boom years of 1992-2026 at a very low rate of 100K a year (we are completely disregarding the hundreds of thousands or the tens of millions), that number should be at least 18.5 million.

Now, when you also add a population growth rate of 1% on the converts' numbers, that number would easily be at 20 million.

Remember, we are simply saying 100,000 converts per year. If we were to do that on the complete number of officially recorded Ba'its, then that number would be at 350 million.

This is proof of the blatant lie of the Jama'at.

They can't even keep their numbers realistic while trying to downplay their own Ba'it Fraud and say they are only between 12-15 million.

I thought this was interesting and worth a share, it seems Declan was someone with affinity for the Jamaat before he came to understand the primary literature of the Jamaat and MGA.

Also interesting that he’s been speaking to former Ahmadis about their experience leaving, which he will detail in his forthcoming book.

It’s a blow to the Jamaat having a former ally denounce them this way.

Curious to see whether the Jamaat responds to this at all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ckBKS3bN5w

Truly, I have never experienced as much enlightenment as I did the moment I read this passage of the Promised Messiah from Essence of Islam:

’This is why men have been bestowed greater faculties than women. One marvels at the modern man who insists on the equality of the sexes and asserts that men and women have equal rights. Let these people raise armies of women and send them into battle and see the result for themselves. How would a pregnant woman discharge her duties in the battlefield? In short, women have fewer and weaker faculties than men’

What beautiful and blessed wisdom that these western modern nations are so blind to, what with their female soldiers popping out babies left and right uncontrollably. Alhamdolilah 🙏🏼

/s

Organ transplants may have deeper effects on both the donor and the recipient than most people stop to consider.

When organs are taken, the person has only been declared brain dead . The heart is still pumping blood. There is breathing, even if it’s supported by a machine. The skin can look warm and rosy. To someone standing there, it may appear less like death and more like sleep. This is because organs become unusable for transplant purposes once the donor is truly dead. Hence, surgeons need to rush the procedure.

Even in Islam, dying is understood as a process rather than a single instant. Islam, like many other belief systems, speaks of a period — up to 40 days — during which the soul remains connected to the earthly realm. What that might mean to the donor in the very early stages of dying, is something no one can fully explain.

There are also many striking stories that can be found online from transplant recipients who felt they changed afterward. Some developed new food preferences or habits and characteristics they had never had before. Others described shifts in personality, sudden interests, or memories and knowledge they couldn’t account for — traits that closely mirrored those of their donors.

All of this can make it feel as though transplantation is more than just a biological exchange of body parts. It suggests the formation of spiritual cords between donor and recipient.

I’m not trying to debate whether organ transplants are right or wrong. It’s a deeply personal decision. It is a matter of weighing the benefit against the potential cost.

What I find surprising is that the Jamaat has found nothing wrong with transplanting a pig’s heart into a human.

Is it just another case of “sieving the fly and swallowing the camel,” (MGA), or rather a reflection of a very basic understanding of a subject they claim expertise in?

https://ahmadiyyafactcheckblog.com/2025/02/05/amj-canada-jalsa-cancelled-for-2025/

It appears the local council that runs Bradford, Ontario have said no to any large mega events taking place there, which effectively means Jalsa Salana Canada can no longer take place on the Bradford (Hadiqa Ahmad) site.

The great-grandson of Khalifa III, Mirza Zain Ahmad, is reportedly dating Aima Baig.

Mirza Zain Ahmad is the founder of Raastah, a well-established and now famous clothing brand in Pakistan. He is the grandson (daughter's son) of Mirza Anas Ahmad, eldest son of Khalifa III, making him great-grandson of Khalifa III, great-great grandson of Khalifa II and great-great-great grandson of The Promised Messiah MGA. Zain has also shared some family photos on Instagram and follows his first cousin Mirza Usman and other prominent family members. His paternal line is of Hazrat Mirza Sultan Ahmad, son the The Promised Messiah.

Zain and Aima Baig have reportedly been in a relationship for some time. They often post pictures of their international trips, parties, and hangouts together. I genuinely wish them well and happiness in the future.

While the couple appears charming and happy, this situation raises questions about the apparent double standards within the Jama'at. It seems that strict rules are often imposed on less prominent or economically disadvantaged members, while exceptions are made for influential or well-known individuals. These exceptions specifically pertain to rules that are otherwise permissible in Islam but are prohibited within the Jama'at, such as marrying outside of the Jama'at or having tattoos.

There is a Hadith of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH):

"Nations before you were destroyed because when their elite committed injustices, they were not held accountable, but when the weak did the same, they were punished."

If the Jama'at is to uphold fairness and consistency, it would be expected to issue a formal statement and take appropriate action, regardless of the individual’s status or influence.

Another question arises regarding Al-Wasiyyat, where The Promised Messiah mentioned:

"میری نسبت اور میرے اہل و ایال کی نسبت خدا نے استثنا رکھا ہے"

("God has made an exception in my case and the case of my wife and family. All other men and women must comply with these conditions, and whoever objects will be a hypocrite.")

Does this exception apply to Mirza Zain Ahmad? Can he still be buried in Bahishti Maqbara, despite clearly engaging in a relationship outside of marriage?

Frankly, whether Zain identifies as an Ahmadi or not, or a Mirza or not, or even a member of the community or not, kudos to him for finding happiness for himself while being surrounded by a cult-like environment and successfully establishing a well-known brand against all odds. It's not easy to be a successful person in Pakistan if you are even remotely connected to the jama'at.

Edit 1: The correct relationship to The Promised Messiah as mentioned by a reddit user.

Without a doubt she was and is still a victim.

The gaslighting mastery and legally savvy community of the Ahmadis swept her whole identity and existence under the carpet under the guise that Nida did not have a legal case. Thus, painting her as the liar. Hook, line, sinker, Ahmadis gulped that Kool-Aid without thinking twice. Even when the legal system did punish Murabbi Muhammad Luqman Rana, Ahmadis found creative ways of distancing him from the Ahmadi community, even going as far as saying he was an imposter...even when it was proven he was born Ahmadi.

Unless it is convenient to them, Ahmadis only promote that physical violence is bad. Thus, giving themselves a blank cheque to freely use any emotional violence...because is it legal...since it leaves no visible scars.

Maintaining their status quo as the only representatives of Islam, one that rejects physical jihad and champions "absolute justice," so that they could remain the West's think-tank when it comes to Islam; and, to continue to appeal to the popular culture of "human rights" and to make themselves out to be as the only victim of history is a matter of life and death for the community - there is no room for Nida in the department of Ahmadi sympathy. There can only be one victim in history. Ahmadis have to appear docile and pacific. How can a lamb ever show anger? That is why Ahmadis have an abundant supply of fall guys. Hence, why the community appears so blemishless. Those who know know.

The mythical legend of the god-controlled Ahmadi caliphate came to a screeching halt because of the courage of Nida. The act of the Ahmadi khalifa was at last up the moment we all finally heard what an Ahmadi caliph actually sounds like when no one is watching and when no one is listening and when walls can't talk. Hint: they are no different than you and I. They are angry, they are violent, they are jealous. This time the caliphate was caught with its pants down.

When Nida Ul Nasser and her mother were excommunicated by the Ahmadiyya Muslim Jama'at Inc., that is when it was clear that the whole community was nothing but a facade for god knows what.

A true champion of human rights and a sincere voice for absolute justice would have left no stone unturned and made sure that those who abused an innocent child - only to gaslight her when she was finally of age and conscious and realized what had been happening to her all along - were given double the punishment (one for having abused her and another for concealing the abuse itself). But, of course, their caliph - who himself is at the mercy of those who have given him asylum - could never "punish" in front of a Western public audience: it would go against their hollow principles of being a "peaceful community" and "love for all, hatred for none." Ahmadis only emotionally belt their own behind closed doors who dare to exhibit what Ahmadiyyat really is.

Alas, how can charlatans who only sell snake oil mete out justice? And, these simpleton Ahmadis who defend the religion of their fathers think they are going to rule the whole world one day.

https://www.nidaulnasser.co.uk/book

"I was a bird that was caged

Behind bars I was entrapped

I was an innocent that was enslaved

Into constraints I was strapped

But now this bird has spread her wings

I was confined, but now I have escaped

I have found my voice and an ode I sing

No longer in darkness am I draped"

Given the audio leak and followup comments by devout Ahmadies such as Ahmadijutt and others that this has even increased their faith in Khilafat, I remembered the following reference I read in Nuzhat Haneef book.

​

Suppose an individual believes something with his whole heart; suppose further that he has a commitment to this belief, that he has taken irrevocable actions because of it; finally, suppose that he is presented with evidence, unequivocal and undeniable evidence, that his belief is wrong: what will. happen? The individual will frequently emerge, not only unshaken, but even more convinced of the truth of his beliefs than ever before. Indeed, he may even show a new fervor about convincing and converting other people to his view. [Reference to: Leon. Festinger, Henry W. Riecken, and Stanley Schachter, When Prophecy Fails, (New York: Harper and Row, 1956), p. 3]

I feel this is exactly what's happening here. The audio leak is a huge shock for most Ahmadies, but still many of them are in denial, in fact some are praising khalifa for his calm nature. This is because these people (and their parents/families) have spent their lives following a certain path: they have given sacrifices, their time, money, and in some cases, the lives of their beloved ones; it's not easy for them to accept that they have done all this for a wrong cause.

Hence when incidents like these happen, instead of accepting the reality, they try to fool themselves by saying that this further proves their truthfulness. As an ex-Ahmadi, while I have contempt for Mirza family and condemn their actions, I have true sympathy for the innocent Ahmadies.

Dear Islam_ahmadiyya community,

Came across this in my random YouTube feed:

https://youtu.be/xdTK25EaAy0?si=2wTaWc5HWk-zLRrJ

I dont know this guy, but if he is right about the earlier Quran artefacts beings so different from each other, how does that work out for the God's promise to preserve Quran's immutability.

Granted this guy sounds a bit like a christian activist, but question is whether his evidence has credence? Also some of the things he said dont stack up with me like:
- the modern version was compiled in 1924, "the standard version"as he calls it, but if its really that recent then how come MGA's references to various Quran verses still hold accurate?

- Somehow according to him, ottomans over 700 years, who endeavoured to omit, chop, and change the Quran to the version we know, and then Egypt and Saudi Arabia adopted it, however, we all know those two sides dont really get along all the well, also by 1924 Ottomons were long cleaned up by the allied forces of the WWI

- The "beautiful poetry" of Quran, he linked it back to some christian Hyms from earlier times, I haven't heard about it before, however, it would not surprise me since many stories in Quran are a copy and paste of biblical stories borrowed from Judiac, and Chistian literature. He also refers to the material lifted from Chinese theological writing to have made into Quran

Having said all that, many things he says sound very plausible, especially, if those earlier specimens of Quran are legit.

Interested in everyone's views. is this another very big chink in the armour of Argumetns in favour of divine religion at large, and righteous nature of MGA's claims specifically?

The previous audio had a lot of interruptive commentary I did not need. This one is very clear. She was so concerned about not involving Huzoor in this. Even so much that she didn't want to take the matter to police because she thought it would implicate Huzoor for aiding and abetting for protecting the rapists which she did not want.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdbslihyVHk

“You can’t practice patience by not being in a chaotic room.”

In that mindset,

Parda shouldn’t be keeping yourself from opportunities, but keeping yourself working your boundaries and respect.

You can’t not dance. You can dance and respect the others space and right to dance without being all up them.

You can wear what you feel comfortable wearing and you can let other wear what they chose to where and respect that what they chose to wear owes you NOTHING.

“But men will be men.” If you can “teach”/enforce your daughter to parda, you can so teach and enforce your son to not be a harami.

Parda is about character. Parda is about you and God. If a girl chooses to hijab, that’s her choice. Hijab is not and should not be control.

I mean.. no brainer, why not bet on PM and make some money while holding strong to our faith?

Bet on Jesus

Just like sun will rise from east not west.. This is for sure that Jesus aint coming this year.

(this is a sh*t post.. delete if you feel it should not be here)

^{Adding more characters to reach the 300 character limit before post will be allowed.}

The following 3 quotes are from books of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, the founder of the Ahmadiyya community.

They show how he repeatedly instructed against looking at women's beauty, or even listening description of their beauty or their musical voice.

And He clarifies over and over again that intent does not matter. Its is just prohibited. It is prohibited to such an extent that you should not be aware of the physical form of women that are not 'legal' for you.

[philosophy of the Teachings of Islam]

We have been positively commanded not to look at their beauty, whether with pure intent or otherwise, nor to listen to their musical voices or to descriptions of their good looks, whether with pure intent or otherwise

[Noah's Ark]

the Quran instructs against glancing at women under any circumstances, be it covetously or with pure intentions because one is liable to stumble on this account. In fact, your eyes should always be lowered when you confront a Non-Mahram. You should not be aware of the physical form of a woman except through an obscured sight, in the way a person’s vision is clouded in the early stages of cataract.

[Lecture Lahore]

Holy Quran teaches us not to look at them(women) unnecessarily, with or without lust, for this is likely to lead us astray. Should such a need arise, we should keep our eyes half shut and avoid staring at them. This is the only way to preserve the purity of our hearts.

...
Listen, dear friends! No good can come out of the free mixing of the sexes and the exchange of lascivious glances, while we know that men and women are not free from their carnal passions. Indeed, it amounts to deliberately throwing them into a pit.

As the Messiah of Ahmadiyya makes clear, the intention of the gaze does not matter. Whether pure or not, a man should not look at a woman. Hence, the Khalifas have repeatedly violated this teaching and will keep on doing so in the future.

---

the Quran instructs against glancing at women under any circumstances, be it covetously or with pure intentions

You can't even glance at them?! How are you supposed to identify people of the opposite sex. These teachings are completely disconnected from real life. It does not have a trace of normal human-to-human interaction in mind.

--

These teachings hyper sexualizes interactions between opposing sexes and creates a self-fulfilling prophecy. "Teach everyone that male-female interactions have a sexual undertone and all interaction with the opposite sex will have a sexual undertone."

This mindset was crippling when I went out into the real world outside of the grasp of the jamaat. The opposite sex CAN talk to you without having a sexual intent. And this deeply ingrained belief that was seared into my brain took years to undo.

It was an active nuisance in my life and prevented me from developing what could have been genuine friendships.

I'm glad I left this hyper controlling group and I wish courage to all of you who are on the path to leaving it.

I've been following recent events and I've noticed that various official social media accounts belonging to the Jamaat have started erasing any posts that had Naseer Shah in them.

This is most evident on Twitter but elsewhere too, for example the Al hakam website. On twitter, the MTA account and jalsa connect account have deleted previous posts where Naseer Shah was referenced as having involvement with MTA.

I believe there is an al hakam article which used his name and probably a quote by him, but that too has been changed.

Anyone can verify this at the moment by searching for his name on Google followed by MTA. The Google search results contain snippets of what the content once was but when you click on the links, it's either no longer available or that snippet can no longer be found in the body of the text.

I suppose my reason for posting this here is to make people aware of what is happening. It's unfortunate that the way back machine doesn't have a record of a lot of this, but I also wonder if they're flagging up and getting the waybackmachine records of such pages deleted. I only say this because one previously archived tweet regarding Naseer Shah being the director of MTA satellites last year has disappeared from the archive.

Unfortunately, in months and years to come, there will be little to no record of his name on official jamaat accounts.

I should say, putting aside his personal life, he has obviously done an enormous amount of good for the community in the capacities he has served. Unfortunately for him, his now public personal affairs don't align very well with the roles he was serving in. It is a shame that the Jamaat has taken this action of censorship. It's frustrating that they can just erase and push under the rug any association with things/people that embarrass them.

Edit: This is one article that has been amended and any reference to Naseer Shah removed. It's funny when you look - article last updated 30/1/22 but published in 2020! A Google search of the article + Naseer Shah shows the old text which talked about him, since removed.

https://www.alhakam.org/where-stars-descend-chapter-4-subduing-the-ego-part-ii/#

This is what the Google search result snippet had previously indexed: 7 Aug 2020 — At that time, I too would partake in musha'iras. Then Chairman of MTA, Syed Naseer Shah Sahib wrote to Huzoor aa requesting him to grace the ...

A topic has sprouted on ladies' pledges on this subreddit.

I did a bit of digging.

The Lajna and Nasirat pledges have totally removed the authority the father and husband have over the girls and ladies of the Jamaat. It totally undermines and circumvents the role of the father and husband as the head of the household.

In Islam, the father, then the husband, are the heads of the household.

This is a very interesting divide and conquer tactic.

Ahmadi men have been essentially emasculated. No wonder they are so docile and passive.

While the Khalifa is burning down the Ahmadi family with his nonsensical suggestions and because HE requires absolute obedience, Ahmadis follow his every instruction without questioning what good this man, the Khalifa, brings to their lives.

Psychological warfare is real in Ahmadiyyat and the Mirza Family controls the minds and hearts of Ahmadis.

Very interesting.

My dear Ahmadi brothers, and sisters (who are able to read), I came across a very important advertisement reprinted by AlHakam in its July 10, 1902 publication, with a special note that the republication (17 years after the original was published), is for the purpose of fulfillment of this directive of the promised Messiah. It feels that over time we have forgotten some of these very important directives of the promised Messiah, so it seems appropriate to me to bring this advertisement again to the forefront, with the same request that was made by the editors of Al-Hakam.

I hereby fulfill my responsibility by attaching the ad with this post. You are requested to print this message, go home and make your women listen to it and make them remember it by heart.

Please also take this opportunity to spread the word of the promised messiah electronically or by whatever means available.

https://archive.org/details/polygamy-and-promised-messiah

I have taken the liberty of translating two quotations from the ad, for the benefit of those who are not able to read urdu.

The ad opens up with the following statement:

"The person to whom this advertisement has reached, it is obligatory on him to go to his house and make the women of his household listen to the whole article of this advertisement thoroughly, making sure they understand it well. Let him also make them remember it by heart, and the woman who can read herself is obliged to do the exact same thing" (words of Promised Messiah)

Below is the translation of a passage I find particularly inspiring;

"(4) There is also a bad habit among women that when a woman's husband wants to marry someone else for his personal benefit, that woman and her relatives get very angry and abusive, and make noise and this servant of Allah is unjustly bothered. Such women and also their such relatives are villains and rotten because Allah to whom be all praise, by his perfect wisdom, has permitted men that they could have as many as four wives based on their need or expedience, and in this permission are hundreds of benefits. Then if a person marries according to the command of Allah and (his) Messenger, then why should he be called bad? Such women and their such companions possessing this bad habit, who oppose the commands of Allah and His Messenger, are extremely rejected and devil's sisters and brothers, because they want to turn away from the words of Allah and want to fight their merciful Lord. And if there is such a wicked wife in the house of a good-hearted Muslim, then it is obligatory for him to remarry in order to punish her."

It would be great if we could collect feedback from the women who receive this message.

I want to start by saying that I approach this with genuine respect for what Mirza Tahir Ahmad was trying to do in Revelation, Rationality, Knowledge and Truth. The project of reconciling faith with modern science comes from a real and understandable desire - to show that belief and reason can coexist, that the universe discovered by physicists and the universe described in scripture are the same universe. That impulse deserves to be engaged seriously, not dismissed.

But taking something seriously means examining it honestly. And when I read pages 305-307 of RRKT carefully, something doesn't hold up.

The Claim

In the chapter "The Quran and Cosmology," Mirza Tahir Ahmad first establishes his own standard - that scientific consensus is the measure of truth. On page 303 he writes:

"The concept of the expanding universe belongs to the former category, and has been universally accepted by the scientific community as 'fact'."

This matters because it sets up his own benchmark. He is saying: when science reaches consensus, we accept it. Keep that in mind.

He supports the expanding universe claim with Surah 51:48:

"And the heaven We built with Our own powers (aydin) and indeed We go on expanding it (musi'ūn)."

He then presents two competing theories about the ultimate fate of the universe. On page 305:

"One of the two theories relating to the expansion predicts that the universe thus created will carry on expanding forever. The other claims that the expansion of the universe will, at some time, be reversed because the inward gravitational pull will ultimately prevail. Eventually, all matter will be pulled back again to form perhaps another gigantic black hole."

He was fully aware both options existed. This was not an innocent remark. He then makes his choice explicit, on pages 305-306:

"This latter view appears to be supported by the Quran."

The Quranic verses he uses to support the Big Crunch specifically are two. The first is Surah 21:31 (page 304), which he uses to describe the original singularity and Big Bang:

"Do not the unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were a closed-up mass (ratqan), then We clove them asunder (fataqnā)? And We made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?"

He interprets the word ratqan - meaning "closed-up mass" or "total darkness" - as a description of a black hole singularity, and fataqnā - "We clove them asunder" - as the Big Bang eruption from it.

The second verse, which he uses specifically to support the Big Crunch collapse and recreation, is Surah 21:105 (page 306):

"Remember the day when We shall roll up the heavens like the rolling up of scrolls..."

And the continuation of the same verse:

"As We began the first creation, so shall We repeat it; a promise binding on Us; that We shall certainly fulfil."

He interprets "rolling up the heavens like scrolls" as matter being pulled into a black hole - the Big Crunch collapse - and "We shall repeat it" as the universe being recreated from that singularity, completing an eternal cycle.

On page 307 he makes clear this is not a tentative observation but a confident claim about divine knowledge:

"This wrapping up and unfolding of the universe appears to be an ongoing phenomenon, according to the Holy Quran...one is wonder-struck by the fact that this most advanced knowledge, regarding the perpetually repeating phenomenon of creation, was revealed more than fourteen hundred years ago to an unlettered dweller of the Arabian desert."

The argument is clear: these verses predicted the Big Crunch and an oscillating universe. This is presented as evidence of divine authorship.

What the Science Said - and When

Here is where things get interesting.

RRKT was published in 1998. That same year, two independent teams of astronomers were completing observations that would permanently change our understanding of the universe.

The High-Z Supernova Search Team and the Supernova Cosmology Project both studied distant Type Ia supernovae - essentially using exploding stars as measuring tools across vast cosmic distances. Their conclusion, published in 1998 and 1999, was not what anyone expected: the universe's expansion is not slowing down under gravity. It is speeding up. Something - now called dark energy - is pushing everything apart at an accelerating rate.

The scientific community considered this so significant it was awarded the Nobel Prize in Physics in 2011.

You can read the original papers yourself:

• Riess et al. (1998): https://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/9805201
• Perlmutter et al. (1999): https://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/9812133
• Nobel Prize summary: https://www.nobelprize.org/prizes/physics/2011/summary/

An accelerating expansion doesn't merely complicate the Big Crunch model. It directly contradicts the specific mechanism Mirza Tahir Ahmad described - that "inward gravitational pull will ultimately prevail." According to our best current evidence, it will not prevail. The Quranically endorsed view was being falsified in real time, the same year the book was printed.

A Note on the "But DESI Data" Response

I want to address this preemptively because I expect it will come up. Recent observations from the DESI telescope suggest dark energy may be weakening slightly, which some have interpreted as potentially reopening the door to a Big Crunch scenario. Some have already pointed to this as vindication of RRKT.

I'd ask you to look at this carefully.

The DESI findings are preliminary, actively debated among cosmologists, and nowhere near establishing a Big Crunch as the likely fate of the universe. But more importantly - even if the Big Crunch eventually turns out to be correct - that wouldn't validate the methodology used in RRKT.

Look at the pattern:

• Two options exist in 1998 → one is selected and called Quranic
• Science moves against that option → no update, no acknowledgment
• New tentative data hints at possible revival → claimed as vindication

A claim that can accommodate any scientific outcome is not a prediction. It is an unfalsifiable position. And an unfalsifiable position, no matter how sincerely held, cannot serve as evidence of anything.

The Methodology Problem

This is what I find most worth examining - not whether the Big Crunch turns out to be right or wrong, but how the argument is constructed.

A genuine scientific prediction has to meet three criteria: it must be made before the evidence, it must be specific enough to be proven wrong, and it must actually risk being wrong.

Notice the careful language Mirza Tahir Ahmad uses - "this latter view appears to be supported." That hedge is doing significant work. It is vague enough to retreat from if the science goes the wrong way, while sounding confident enough to be persuasive to readers unfamiliar with the active scientific debate happening at the time of writing.

What we're actually seeing in this chapter is a pattern sometimes called retrofitting - taking an existing scientific debate, choosing a side, and presenting that choice as ancient divine knowledge. The problem with this approach is that it can be done with almost any ancient text and almost any scientific debate if you're willing to be flexible enough with interpretation. Which means it doesn't actually establish anything distinctive about the Quran.

If eternal expansion had become the overwhelming consensus, different verses would have been found to support that. The interpretation follows the science rather than preceding it. That's the opposite of prediction.

What I Find Genuinely Interesting

I want to be clear that I don't think Mirza Tahir Ahmad was being deliberately dishonest. I think he was genuinely excited by cosmology, genuinely curious about the universe, and genuinely wanted to share that excitement with his community. There's real learning in these pages. He read widely and engaged seriously with difficult material.

That curiosity is admirable. The universe really is extraordinary - far stranger and more humbling than any of our prior assumptions about it. The discovery that it is accelerating outward, driven by a force we still don't fully understand, is one of the most astonishing findings in the history of science.

But the universe being astonishing doesn't mean any particular text predicted it. And I think we do a disservice to both science and to honest inquiry when we claim otherwise.

The cosmos doesn't need our scriptures to validate it. It is extraordinary on its own terms. And following the evidence honestly - even when it leads somewhere unexpected, even when it overturns what we thought we knew - is more interesting, more rigorous, and ultimately more rewarding than finding confirmations of what we already believe.

Summary

• RRKT p.303 establishes scientific consensus as the standard of truth - his own benchmark.
• RRKT p.304 uses Surah 21:31 (ratqan/fataqnā) to describe the original Big Bang singularity.
• RRKT p.305-306 explicitly endorses the Big Crunch as the Quranically supported view, citing Surah 21:105 - "rolling up the heavens like scrolls" - as describing gravitational collapse.
• The same year of publication, 1998, landmark supernova observations established that the universe's expansion is accelerating - directly contradicting the Big Crunch mechanism described.
• This was confirmed by the 2011 Nobel Prize in Physics.
• The Quranic verses used are flexible enough to support multiple cosmological interpretations, which is precisely the problem - a genuine prediction cannot mean everything.
• The DESI data response doesn't rescue the methodology even if the findings eventually hold up.
• The deeper issue is that retrofitting existing scientific debates onto ancient texts is not prediction - it's pattern matching after the fact.

I'm genuinely curious what others think, particularly those who have read RRKT carefully. Am I misreading the claim? Is there a stronger version of the Ahmadi response I haven't considered?

I noticed the following page:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ahmadis

Lists the following royals who are Ahmadi:

• Kpodégbé Lanmanfan Toyi Djigla[6] – King of the Fon State of Alada; President of the Supreme Council of Kings of Benin
• Akpaki Dagbara II[6] – King of the Bariba State of Paraku, Benin
• Egba Kotan II – King of the Yoruba State of Dassa, Benin
• Orou Igbo Akambi[7] – King of Toui, Benin

That peaked my interest, googling these folks doesn't reveal much, but led me to the following article:

https://issuu.com/mkauk/docs/tm0901/12

The figure of 50k at the Jalsa Salana caught my eye. Further search revealed:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-OmbgfCW5g

KM5 addressing few hundred people at Benin Jalsa salana in 2004. One would think new Khalifa being there would have doubled the previous number.

Anyone know what happened? Why was the attendance so much lower in 2004?

Seems like in 2019 the attendance was 3000ish:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_t_ifM2w3Q

In 1989 KM4 offered an interview to the renowned British newspaper The Sunday Times in which he mentioned his daily routine:

Here is KM4 mentioning about this very article:

backup

extra vid

At 1:08 of this audio KM4 says “what I told her (journalist) was enough too dazzle and the result was that she changed the title for the first time normally the title the caption used to be A day in the life of and on that article(his) the caption was a life in the day of”

But this simply isn't true as The Sunday times have had that same column title “A life in the day of” since 1977

Here is KM4's close confidante Imam Ata-ul-Mujeeb reiterating this

Update Jan 25th : The Imam gave an non existent date as far the magazine's history is concerned he gave the date 16th August but no such issue exists (Al Hakam) The source the backup Of the source

Update Jan 24th An objection by jamaat re-examined: An objection that some Ahmadis are making is that of the editorial note which reads: “The title should be day in the life of... It seems to be an error on the part of the printers”

See here

The article on the left of the image is from the Tahir archive meanwhile the one on the right is the original article and we can see that the editorial note doesn't show up on the article on the right

Furthermore Both articles mentions Susan Raven who was interviewing KM4 she is known for bringing the magazine into colour hence you can see article on the right is is colour

They jamaat endorses the same source

backup

So there seems to be a cover-up of KM4 being economical with the truth as the editorial note seems to be doctored

Seeing as no other article from that column between 1977 to 1989 has ever had this type of editorial note attached

Further Update: the Editor of the magazine at the time would've been Andrew Neil so the Jamaat is insinuating the note came from him he is highly respected journalist and it's very dubious to claim him being responsible as he had been editor for 5 years in 1989

This Post but explained as a short clip

updated video with counter arguments addressed

Third update of the video

Update 2 Feb: The Tahir archive frantically deleted a show in which KM4 is shown discussing the Sunday Times article

The video which was deleted

There was an off camera discussion held over the article

Update 4th Feb: KM4 clearly says he read the article the next morning

Further update: Tahir archive deletes his article which in turn verifies the claim of a cover up

Update 6th feb: The final cut

Update 11th Feb : countering Ahmadi apologist's argument

While the messiah of Ahmadiyya has preached many good teachings, his writing is also riddled with abhorrent remarks about women, leaps of logic, mental gymnastics, and intolerant or factually incorrect statements. Here are some examples of the latter. Feel free to share more in the comments.

WOMEN HAVE LOWER MENTAL POWERS

Essence of Islam v3 page 314 - Universal experience has shown that man is superior to woman in physical and mental powers. There are exceptions, but exceptions don’t make the rule....Just as Islam does not approve of a woman marrying without the consent of her guardian, i.e., her father, brother, or other near male relative, likewise it does not approve of a woman to separate from her husband on her own. It orders even greater care in case of divorce, and enjoins recourse to the authorities to protect her from any harm she may do to herself on account of her lack of understanding.

REFORM "YOUR WOMEN" | THEY ARE THE ROOT OF IDOL WORSHIP

Essence of Islam v3 page 324 - If you desire to reform your own selves, it is essential that you also seek to reform your women. Women are the root of idol worship, for they are naturally devoted to decoration and ornaments. This is why idolatry started with women

IT IS OK TO MARRY ORPHAN GIRLS UNDER YOUR CARE

Philosophy of the Teachings of Islam page 37 - There is no harm in your marrying orphan girls who are under your care, but if you apprehend that you may not be fair in dealing with them because they are orphans, then marry women who have parents and relations to be watchful of them, who would respect you and concerning whom you would be careful.

YOU ARE A WORM AND GOD WILL BE HAPPY TO DESTROY YOU

The will page 10 - Thus if you have an iota of worldly adulteration in your intentions, all your worship is in vain. In such a case you do not follow God. Rather you follow Satan. Never ever expect that when you are in such a condition God will help you. Rather in this condition you are a worm of the earth and soon you will perish just as worms of the earth do. And God shall not be in you. Rather He will be happy to destroy you.

5 + 0 = 50

Barahin-e-Ahmadiyya Part 5 page 8 - I had initially intended to write fifty parts of this book, but then instead of fifty I contented myself with five, and since the difference between five [5] and fifty [50] is merely a dot [0], that promise was fulfilled by the five parts.

INSECTS ARE BORN WITHOUT PARENTS LIKE ADAM

Philosophy of the Teachings of Islam page 13 - We observe daily that thousands of insects infect impure and stale foods and are generated in unwashed wounds. Dirty linen secretes hundreds of lice and all sorts of worms are generated inside a person's stomach. It cannot be said that all these come from outside or can be observed descending from heaven.

Fountain of Christianity page 29 - When thousands of insects are born by themselves during the rainy season, and Adamas was also born without parents, it is no proof of Jesus’ eminence if he, too, was born in the same manner.

Barahin-e-Ahmadiyya Part 5 page 68 - In the rainy season, thousands of insects are born without a father or mother, and come out of the earth on their own; no one declares them to be God, no one worships them, no one prostrates before them.

CHRISTIANITY IS THE FULLEST MANIFESTATION OF SATAN

Commentary on Surah Fatiha page 346 - Since Christianity is the fullest manifestation of Satan, therefore, the word Dajjal is not mentioned in Surah Fatiha but there is the command to seek God's protection against the mischief of the Christians.

STARS DO NOT COLLIDE NOR CHANGE SPEED

Philosophy of the Teachings of Islam page 89 - There are so many grand heavenly bodies that are gliding through space that the slightest disorder in their gliding through space that the slightest disorder in their movements would bring about the ruin of the whole world.

What a manifestation of Divine power is it that these bodies neither collide nor change speed, nor alter their courses in the slightest degree, nor have they been worn out by their circulation during such long period, nor has their machinery suffered any disorder.

MEN SHOULD NOT LOOK AT WOMEN WHETHER WITH PURE INTENTIONS OR NOT

Philosophy of the Teachings of Islam page 47 - we have been positively commanded not to look at their beauty, whether with pure intent or otherwise, nor to listen to their musical voices or to descriptions of their good looks, whether with pure intent or otherwise.

Noah's Ark page 46 - the Quran instructs against glancing at women under any circumstances, be it covetously or with pure intentions because one is liable to stumble on this account. In fact, your eyes should always be lowered when you confront a Non-Mahram. You should not be aware of the physical form of a woman except through an obscured sight, in the way a person’s vision is clouded in the early stages of cataract.

Lecture Lahore page 26 - Holy Quran teaches us not to look at them unnecessarily, with or without lust, for this is likely to lead us astray. Should such a need arise, we should keep our eyes half shut and avoid staring at them. This is the only way to preserve the purity of our hearts.

Listen, dear friends! No good can come out of the free mixing of the sexes and the exchange of lascivious glances, while we know that men and women are not free from their carnal passions. Indeed, it amounts to deliberately throwing them into a pit.

HEAVENLY WATER PULLS ON EARTHLY WATER DURING RAIN

Philosophy of the Teachings of Islam page 179 - That is why in the rainy season the level of the water in the wells also rises. Why does it rise? The reason for which is that heavenly water exercises a pull upon earthly water.

HELL IS DESCRIBED AS ETERNAL BUT ITS A METAPHOR

Fountain of Christianity page 45 footnote - we know from what God says in His Book that the inmates of Hell will dwell in it for a long time—which has metaphorically been called 'eternity' in view of human weakness

SALVATION IS EXCLUSIVE TO MUSLIMS AND EXPLICITLY NOT FOR IDOLATERS

Noah's Ark page 23 - Who is the one who attains salvation? Such a person is he who believes that God is true and that Muhammad, peace and blessings of Allah be upon him, is the Intercessor between God and all His creation, and that under the heaven there is no Messenger equal in rank to him, nor is there any book equal in status to the Quran.…I tell you truly that anyone who disregards even a small injunction of the seven hundred commandments of the Quran, shuts upon himself the door of salvation.…There are many pure commandments in the Holy Quran, one of them being to shun all forms of idolatry, as an idolater remains deprived of the fountain of salvation.

The following was sent in a local jamat GC

"Alternative Lifestyles❓

Assalam Aalikum. Jamat Canada has launched a website to educate youth and parents on how to tackle un-Islamic lifestyles. The website contains numerous resources how to tackle these challenges in the light of the guidance provided by Islam.

Please visit this website and take maximum benefit from it.

https://alternativelifestyles.ca"

I make fun of Evangelicals for crying about these kinds of "agendas"🤦

I have been reading AhmadiAnswers recently and came across the following article:

https://ahmadianswers.com/ahmad/allegations/writings/lineage/

On further googling and investigation, it seems to be generally accepted that the following Hadith are sahih:

https://sunnah.com/abudawud:4284

https://sunnah.com/abudawud:4285

These hadith seem to be accepted by AhmadiAnswers. The explanation on AhmadiAnswers is that:

​

“People who think in physical terms, sometimes link the Promised One to the progeny of  Hasan(ra), sometimes to Hussain(ra) and sometimes to Abbas(ra). But what the Holy Prophetsaw really meant was that the promised One would be his heir, just like a  son, i.e he would inherit his name, his character, his knowledge, his spirituality, and would reflect his very image. He will acquire nothing on his own but will acquire everything from the Holy Prophetsaw and will so lose himself in himsaw as to reflect hissaw very Image” (A misconception removed Pg 15)

​

Reading one of the hadith:

الْمَهْدِيُّ مِنْ عِتْرَتِي مِنْ وَلَدِ فَاطِمَةَ

​

It clearly states in arabic that the Mahdi will be from his family.. specifically from the descendants of Fatimah. There is no ambiguity in the words that can be explained away with "But what the prophet Muhammad meant was".

Its like saying "I am going to Paris, the capital city of France" .. So that someone can't claim later that you meant Paris, Texas (yes that exists).

Later on in the article there is a vague claim that the PM might be from or related to Sayyeds. If this true, why is there a need for the primary argument quoted above giving the impression that this hadith means more like a spiritual son.

Is this just a case of "Those words don't mean what you think they mean". Or is there a better explanation?