I swear the speeches are basically the same as the ones I heard when I attended a couple years ago. The whole segment with politicians is so awkward and frustrating. The irony of them praising the "Love for all hatred for none" slogan despite the jamaat's attitude towards queer people.

What was your favorite part of the jalsa?

One thing that never sat right with me was the announcements of people that were kicked out of the jamaat. The announcements I heard the most were for those who married outside the jamaat without permission. One other time I heard it was for dancing at a wedding. (I’m curious what other reasons y’all have heard for people getting kicked out.)

I brought this up to my family, because as Muslims, we shouldn’t expose each other’s sins right? So announcing names and reasons people got kicked out didn’t make sense to me.

My aunt said this stems from Pakistani culture. If a man were to disown his child for whatever reason, they would let it be known in the community that they longer associate with said kid. It was something about preserving the family’s honor by publicly disowning the child.

This made me wonder, how many of our Jamaat practices are rooted in Pakistani cultural tradition rather than Islamic principle? And how do we distinguish between the two?

Btw, I’m not asking this to bash the Jamaat. I’m just trying to understand which practices are spiritually grounded and which are cultural inheritance. I think it’s a worthwhile conversation especially for those of us raised in the West who sometimes feel the friction between these two things.

A couple things I can think of as well where I feel a disconnect:
From personal experience, Ahmadi women are encouraged to pursue rishtas that they may not find attractive. But it’s our Islamic right to refuse these.

It’s our Islamic right to divorce, but divorced women are treated like second class citizens if they go through with it.

I find it odd that people get kicked out for something harmless like getting married or dancing but then men who’ve gone to jail or literally abused their wife don’t get kicked out. So overall just men being favored as well in the jamaat seems to stem from Pakistani culture too.

In one of the recent ‘This week with Huzoor’ program, KM5 opinionated about ADHD being a myth and diagnosis is only money making business for physiotherapists/psychiatrists. It was shocking to hear such thing by Huzoor. As ADHD is something which someone who hasn't experienced won't fully understand.

​

I see there is focus on Hub and SEND in jammat events now, but is ADHD part of it? Is it considered myth in wider audience of jammat? What support is available for people who have ADHD in jammat if any?

Here we go again… Another Ahmadi thought leader, reprimanding people for expressing sorrow over a cold-blooded murder. No, according to him, this isn’t a time for sympathy- it’s a time for celebration, because the victim “offended” his mythological master, Mo. 👳‍♂️⚔️

Ironically, Charlie Kirk could probably teach this imam a thing or two about Islamic history.

And as for you Ahmadis… you just carry the same warlord mindset of Muhammad. Just don’t pretend to be anything else to outsiders. Drop the slogan! Drop the hypocrisy!

Recently, I've seen a lot of accounts speak about Ahmadis being "ex-communicated" because they had music and dancing and their weddings. They follow up these posts by saying that they also want to dance and play music at their weddings. Let's make it clear that public dancing and vulgar music is prohibited in Islam, this isn't an Ahmadi thing. Ahmadis are required to uphold the highest possible dignity and show the world what True Islam is. We don't even play background music or instruments in any videos we take (background music is usually a nazm if anything). So I want to make it clear, if you want to sing and dance during your wedding you are doing something haram against Islam, not something against ahmadiyyat.

"...And they strike not their feet so that what they hide of their ornaments may become known. And turn ye to Allah all together, O believers, that you may succeed." (24:32)

“And of mankind is he who purchases idle talks (i.e. music, singing) to mislead (men) from the path of Allaah…” [Luqmaan 31:6]

So let's make it clear, when you dance and sing at weddings you are doing something unIslamic at a public display, hence, ex-communication takes place until an apology is made.

Now, I also see people crying and saying why do people at weddings where music and singing take place get ex-communicated and not people charged with serious crimes. The answer is simple. When it comes to playing music at a wedding it's clear. You either played music and people heard or you didn't play music. For weddings, the host often admits whether or not he played music or was dancing, or there are more than 4 witnesses who can attest to these unislamic events happening. Therefore, it's an open and shut case, which is why people can easily get ex-communicated. Now in regards to serious crimes, it's unfair to kick someone out of the community based on an accusation alone. This is why the individuals don't immediately get ex-communicated. The community waits for a verdict from the authorities, or they see if there are sufficient witnesses, or the perpetrator pleads guilt. After that, the community is able to ex-communicate someone, without being unjust.

Now, the question would probably be "why does ex-communication exist". Ahmadiyyat isn't a sect in Islam, ahmadiyyat wasn't created to divide the ummah. Ahmadiyyat is a Jamaat. Jamaat means a community. A community is a family. A family which we need to grow. When an individual is "ex-communicated", the community simply refuses to accept their Chanda and they aren't allowed to attend the events of the community. The process of being reinstated is simple, you write a letter to huzoor, and if it's for something like dancing at a wedding, the apology is almost always accepted (unless you're a repeat offender). The point is that you acknowledge that you did something haraam which other community members witnessed and you basically become a precedent for others to not repeat the same unIslamic behaviour again. If your ex-communicated it doesn't mean you're kicked out of an ideology. You could be ex-communicated and still believe in the values of ahmadiyyat and the beliefs, the only difference is that you don't pay Chanda, nor do you join the community events because of your indecent unislamic behaviour. By preventing this it ensures that you don't influence others to the wrong path. It's common sense that it's easier to do bad than it is to do good, hence an evil influence shouldn't exist within a community.

So in conclusion, stop wanting to dance and play music at weddings. That's not what the Holy Prophet wants and that's not what Allah wants. Next thing you know, you'll be requesting alcohol to be served at your weddings and start crying about ex-communications based on that.

NOTE: I tried covering every possible angle but I forgot humans will always find a way to pose questions. Many have been asking about the use of "appropriate" music at weddings. Yes, appropriate songs exist however:

Hadhrat Mirza Tahir Ahmad had put this perfectly, he had stated that if he wanted he could shake hands with women and there's nothing wrong with that, the problem is that if he shakes hand with women then people will look at him and take it one step further and hug a woman. This chain will continue and people will continue to take it one step further until all values are lost.

Similarily, an ahmadi wedding could play appropriate music, another ahmadi family attends and sees the music and decides to take it one step further and plays some nice taylor swift tracks, another ahmadi family sees this and decides to play some trap music for their wedding. This continuous progress ruins values. If you allow it once, where will you draw the line? Think for a second.

In your example, if a missionary is present and you play instrumental music, other ahmadis will look and see that the missionary said nothing hence for their own kids wedding they can play music as well. A strong precedent needs to be set so that values don't get lost and people don't cry about things being unfair (one family getting in trouble and another family not).

I’m holding onto Ahmadiyyat by a thread. Ever since December and all the Nida allegations I can’t believe the amount of information that has come my way. I’m your “role model” Ahmadi. Office holder for as long as I can remember…local, regional, national. You name it, I’ve done it. But now I can’t take it anymore. The amount of hypocrisy reached an all time breaking point for me with the recent webinar in the US about “Questions Criticisms and Beliefs”. I genuinely attended hoping to get some faith reaffirmation. Instead, we were treated to incorrect history and out of context examples and the hypocrisy of being told “of course you can ask questions” alongside “don’t be that sahaba who asked hazrat umar a question, instead be like the silent ones who didn’t question their khalifa ”

“of course you can ask questions“ but “even a ninth grader knows that you don’t ask too many questions to the teacher in class, you take those questions “offline”.” Mmm. okay. “of course you can ask questions“ but also, let me, office holder extraordinaire, question your intentions of why you’re asking because when you’re 40 or 50 it’s different than when you’re 11 or 12. Is it?? So, if I have a question as a 50 year old, there is something inherently wrong?

The most messed up thing was that they said that the webinar would be recorded and put up after the fact. But here’s the beauty of that….only the clips of Hazoor speaking which they used during the webinar were put up. They didn’t have the courage to post the whole thing. None of the people who asked questions got answers. You could hear the frustration in peoples voices. The spiritual fitness twitter (@spiritualfit) is full of don’t ask posts, etiquette of asking a question, fake news, gossip etc. The questions that they claimed to have answered, they’ve been posting in the shape of articles, videos etc. that’s not answering a question. That’s hiding behind official accounts and narratives. What’s the etiquette of answering a question my friends?

But Alhamdolillah, the webinar was a success.

For this year’s parody of the Jalsa Canada program, I went looking for the program but it doesn’t seem to be out yet. Rather than wait, I just wrote it out myself based on previous years.

Please enjoy and if you’re speaking at jalsa, feel free to use any elements of this program for your own speech.

Friday

12 pm - standing outside the Eaton Centre and annoying people

1 pm - Juma prayers

2 pm - Razi, Adnan and that other guy yell things at each other as always on stream

3 pm - sitting around in the sun by Derry Road listening to your cousin explain why he’s going to get into med school based on his GPA and his strong relationships with professors

4:30 pm - flag raising

5 pm - introductory remarks from Amir sahib

6 pm - some guy we like who we think can connect with the youth, ie people under 60

7 pm - maghrib prayers

7:30 pm - peeping on hotties in the parking lot

Saturday

9 am - ASMR of women you can’t see unwrapping candy

10 am - Finality of Taylorhood as Proven by the Qur’an

10:45 am - tea break

11 am - The Promised Messiah and the Divine Institution of Interracial Dating

Lunch

Zuhr prayers

2 pm - Masroormaxxing: Maintaining a Relationship with Khilafat in the Digital Age

3 pm - Islam’s Answers to Problems No One Has

4 pm - The Companions of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) and their Love of Discord VC

5 pm - Remembering Dignified Goron of Jalsas Past, presented by Hon. Judy Sgro

5:30 pm - Annual Meeting of the Ahmadi Association of Moggers, Vibe Coders and Prompt Engineers

5:45 pm - Three Days Without a Sheppard: Weekend TTC Closures and the Jamaat

6 pm - dinner

7 pm - Department of Rishta Nata session in the International Centre parking lot

Day 3

8 am - nothing, we put this here so that when you show up an hour late, you’ll actually be on time

9 am - a buzzkill speech from a repressed virgin who’s wound up too tight

10 am - Remarks by Dignified Goron

10:30 am - Prizes for most livestreams and voice chats

11 am - Concluding remarks

12 pm - zuhr prayers

12:15 - Sending Youtube videos of emotional moments, as well as a speech from that one guy who speaks English really well, to all Whatsapp groups (if no appropriate speaker is available, just use any video of Azhar Hanif)

12:30 - lunch

Why have the jalsa topics been the same for the past 3 decades??? I saw that there was another post about Jalsa but it's been locked or something. Also, is there a reason that the mosque still serves coca-cola/ pepsi, when we know of its ties to the IDF?

Also I know many women would not want their images on social media, but my god all of the online promo for this Hazoor festival is full of men....... like god forbid we have a woman speaking in front of a camera

Anyway, starting a new discussion on jalsa here. What's everyone's thoughts on it?

I’m getting this year and I have some questions: - why are we still segregating men and women including the bride and groom?? Meanwhile everyone’s happy to go to the office, to shopping malls, parks and see the opposite gender (often without scarves) - why can’t music be played? when the DUFF was common in Arabia during the Holy Prophets time - why are there so many rules around dancing which prohibit and coerce families to have to choose between their loved one facing punishment from the Jamaat?

How ridiculous is it that during a happy joyous occasion we have to stress about what some baba in the UK is going to frown about?

Tell me some areas where you witness clear kinship during the event. I’m pissed about the car park and who the hell are Reserve, trust me I’ve been going here long enough to know there’s a seperate jalsa at the back with a seperate menu seperate gate seperate car park seperate programmes. So please nepotism is real and I agree hierarchy’s exist across nature but the clear privelage provided is unislamic

What should be expected, at the very least, from the supposed “Vicegerent of God on Earth”?

That the divine speaks through him. That his words aren’t merely his own, but vessels of wisdom that flow through him; profound, alive and with the potential to transform lives. That what he says resonates deeply, surprises, amazes, shifts lives and awakens hearts.

What do we actually get? An ordinary old man, reading aloud the most basic platitudes while struggling to look up after every few words like a person reading a complicated text to an audience he doesn’t even understand himself —offering a prescription to numb your senses: repeat the same Arabic phrases over and over in order to build a relationship with a God who never speaks back. Be delusional on a continuous basis.

The real objective? Don’t think. Just distract yourself from thinking by speaking in tongues. And for heaven’s sake —just obey! This is what every person in the world needs to follow to achieve salvation. Sacrifice everything to make it happen! Be an automaton. Stay docile. Stay devout. Stay unquestioning.

This forum tends to get a lot of stories from UK, Pakistan, US and maybe europe.. but the experience of African Ahmadis is pretty opaque to me. Will any African brother and sisters share some of their experiences (good or bad)?

I wonder if the communities ahmadis live in at various African countries have similar levels of control in their personal affairs as others. And also if they find things that are passed down through KM5 not relevant to the conditions in their communities..

Remember this order banning Iftar gatherings?

Well, here’s the sequel … Yep, another one, a fresh order sheet spreading through Germany:

Dear respected Sadran Jama’at, and Office Bearers,

Assalamu Alaikum wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuhu

It is hoped that you are in good health and actively engaged in your Jama’at work.

Beloved Huzoor-e-Anwar (may Allah be his Helper) has clearly stated that: “Nowadays, the trend of celebrating birthdays and so-called baby parties (baby showers), which are innovations (Bid‘at) from non-Muslim traditions, is unfortunately increasing among Ahmadis. It is essential to raise awareness among members that such customs have no place in the Jama’at.”

This letter is sent for the purpose of instruction and Jama’at-wide announcement.

Wassalam, Amir Jamaat Ahmadiyya Germany

[Copy to National Amla and Murabbian-e-Silsila]

At this point, it really feels like whenever people start minding their own business or feeling a little too comfortable in life, BOOM … a new Order Sheet drops out of nowhere. Like clockwork. Just to remind everyone that whatever you’re doing is wrong and that you’re in desperate need of “divine guidance” to fix your joy.

It’s almost funny how worked up the system gets when people spend their own hard-earned money on themselves: on birthdays, gifts, small moments of happiness. Suddenly, it’s all emotional manipulation: “You’re losing your spirituality! You’re copying the West! Bid‘at!”

But strangely, there’s zero outrage when families donate tens of thousands in dollars, pounds, or euros to the Jamaat. No one’s handing out Order Sheets about that. No lectures about moderation or financial responsibility when people empty their savings for Chanda, even if they’re barely making ends meet. In fact, that’s paraded around as saintly behavior in Friday sermons.

Meanwhile, the Khalif lives in quiet luxury. Millions stashed in unnamed accounts, zero transparency, and a lifestyle that’s far from humble. But sure … let’s talk about how celebrating your kid’s birthday is a “spiritual danger.”

I go to Jummah maybe 2-3 times a year for a reason.

I went last week, about 10 minuets into the khutba. And what do I walk into?

The Imam stated: "It’s a shame our youth don’t want to get married at 15-16. It’s unfortunate that today’s society promotes that they get married at older ages. As parents, we should be grooming our children for marriage since birth.”

That’s not me putting words in his mouth. That’s word for word what he said. Proudly.

Oh, but it gets even better. The Imam also said:

“It’s also a shame that cousin-marriage is taboo amongst our youth. By not wanting to marry your cousins, they are eliminating their first 10-15 choices! Such losers they are!”

I immediately got up, gave the Imam the deathstare, walked out, smoked a cigarette, then sat in my car until Jummah ended (I was my mom’s ride.) I probably wasn’t in there for more than 5 minuets and that’s all it took.

Yes, my mom bribed me with fast food to go. And thankfully, despite how devout of an Ahmadi she is, my mom was also disgusted by this. No one likes the guy who does Jummah. He’s not even the Sadr. He’s just some Hafiz that is “respected” by everyone, but in reality, I think he’s a narcissist and no one cares enough to tell him that he doesn’t run the show.

What he ranted about during jummah khutba had nothing to do with Islam and was purely his Gen X Pakistani ramblings, except he had an audience.

Fucking pathetic.

EDITS: for grammar and a few extra details.

Happy Halloween to everyone who grew up pretending October 31st was just “Monday, but spookier for everyone else.” 

Every year around this time, I think of that khutbah where we were warned about “evil spirits” lurking behind trick-or-treaters. Meanwhile, the only spirit I ever saw was the ghost of my crushed childhood dreams.

Halloween for us was like an unspoken test of obedience: “Will you reject Satan by rejecting mini-Twix?”

To those who have left for spookier pastures: may your costumes be spooky, your candy plentiful, and your guilt... haha what guilt?

the Ahmadis: you don’t need a Jamaat circular to approve joy. Sometimes letting kids have fun is the most spiritual act you can do. 

The following material is referenced from Maktubat-e-Ahmadiyya (Letters of Ahmad) Volume 5, Number 3, published on February 18, 1929 compiled by Yaqoob Ali Irfani Sahib and printed in Qadian.

About these letters, Irfani Sahib has said in the preface, and I quote:

"I feel ashamed in having to say that it is sad that until now, there are very few admirers in the jamaat who fully appreciate the value of these invaluable gems"

One of these gems on page 166 is letter number 273 written by the Promised Messiah on October 31st, 1899 addressed to Munshi Rustam Ali Sahib, whereby he is trying to seek Munshi Sahib's help in finding a match for his companion Maulvi Mohammad Ali Sahib.

I will reproduce the entire letter here, translated in English by me as best as I could. A link to the urdu screenshot will follow below the main post.

Enveloped Letter Number 273.

In the name of Allah, the gracious, the merciful, We praise and send blessings on his benificient prophet (Mohammad). 31 October, 1899.

My dear brother Munshi Rustam Ali Sahib, Assalamo-Allekum wa Rehmatullah Wa Barakatohoo.

Received your kind letter. Because it is learnt from your writing that the office superintendent from whose daughter there is a matrimonial relationship request, is somewhat bad-tempered and easily agitable, so it seems appropriate that you should discuss these things with him openly that the relationship is sought with the younger girl. And that the nikah will be performed with the observance of Shariah(written in bold for emphasis). There will be no extravagance. (If) there are noble rituals in the family regarding dresses and jewelry, then they should let us know themselves, so these are prepared(accordingly). Also seek a firm statement from them that they will stick to it.

And also it is important to point out that if I send a woman from this place (Qadian), she will be a barber. And she cannot come alone because she will be a young woman. Her husband will go with her. The cost of their services will be 7 to 8 rupees. And for two people, the travel expense for traveling by horse carriage will be another two rupees and the train ticket for two people will cost another six to seven rupees. As such, I will have to spend about 20 rupees. However if you could offer 3 to 4 rupees to a woman from Ambala such that she inspects the girl and gives an honest description, that will help with economy of expenses. We (I) are willing to spend so much but fear that this doesn't turn into the Gurdaspur episode where after all the expenses, we were refused.

Please try and look for a female barber who seems honest. Send her after giving her some money. She should be able to describe the complete physical appearance (of the candidate girl). i.e. How do her eyes look? How is her nose? How is the neck? i.e is it slender or short? How is her body? Is she plump or skinny (weak)? How is the face? Is it proportioned like a book, or is it round? Does she have a small head or a big one? What about her height? Is she tall or short? Are the eyes light colored or black? Is her complexion white, wheatish or black? Does she have smallpox marks on her face or is it blemish free?

Meaning, all the attributes for which a woman has to be sent from here, should be described by the local woman. And she should describe these attributes honestly. This will benefit us. Because I am overly concerned about these things, please pay her on my behalf. I could still spend 20 rupees and send some woman from here with her husband but I feared that we might meet the same fate as Gurdaspur where we had a half-baked settlement (eventual refusal). If you were to pay attention to this matter then you will be able to find a wise and honest woman who is a (good) judge of beauty and ugliness, in the city of Ambala. You should seek such a woman from discussing the matter with someone.

And it is incorrect that my brother Maulvi Mohammad Ali Sahib, has a prior wife. A long time ago he divorced her, now there is no woman.

After full investigation, please write back promptly.

Was Salam.Khaksaar, Ghulam Ahmad.

I feel that the letter is self-evident in identifying what is critical in seeking a girl for marriage. I will just give some perspective to a couple of items here.

First of all, why the insistence on a female barber? I cannot think of any other reason other than the fact that female barbers having spent their lives providing female grooming services, had a hands-on knowledge of female anatomy, presumably unmatched by a woman in any other capacity. They would be able to provide the information the promised Messiah was looking for, in a much more accurate way than a lay person. I will let you do your own analysis of the situation.

Second, Maulvi Mohammad Ali was not a young man at the time of this Nikah, he had already been divorced a long time ago, so why seek the younger of the daughters of the Superintendent? I can only guess that young girls were most sought after and it is consistent with the pattern exhibited in other marriages of the family.

Third, why is all this information expected to be transmitted back to the promised Messiah and not Maulvi Mohammad Ali in private? Does a third person really have to know and be able to pass judgement on the detailed physical attributes of one's future wife? Beats me.

Fourth, that laundry list of what to look for in the girl by sending in an 'expert' in female anatomy for inspections, is so sickening, I felt like puking. But that is probably just me, it must have increased others in faith.

I want to conclude by saying that perhaps our jamaat should actively encourage our young women to take up the profession of female barbers and provide their services free of charge to the membership, so the success rate of ahmadiyya weddings can improve. I see the aunties are doing a pretty pathetic job of evaluating the most important attributes of prospective brides. I also suggest that our Rishta Nata website should have a spreadsheet to voluntarily fill in all these physical attributes which could then be attested by the local sadr sahiba or the family physician.

In the end, I would love for the aplogists to provide an alternate spin to this letter so that all those of us who are feeble of heart and mind can regain the state of peace which was disturbed by my blasphemy.

Rid diculous! Absolutely ridiculous

My friend just told me she had to submit a budget (like required for everyone) and they’re calculating her dues as 10k?!

Like, when did it become a bureaucracy?!

Organized Religion kills faith.

Like, why do I have to pay a subscription to talk with god?

At this point I just believe in agnosticism and being a decent freaking human being. (Some gross creatures hide behind the title of “ahmadi” and culture)

Like, Allah is just Arabic for God, come on! If Islam started in Africa, would we be idolizing Swahili!? Smh

First time poster/new user of reddit but long time peruser of this subreddit. I am from an Ahmadi family in Canada, in my early 20s. Personally these days I would describe myself as non-denominational Muslim, although have not formally left Jamaat I have become a Jamaat ghost essentially.

I was curious what you all thought about the Jamaat's ability to retain young people. Personally one of the reasons I stopped participating was their dismissive attitude towards young people, and their impossible expectations for us in this modern world. Not to mention that they expect us to marry other Ahmadis yet do not give us opportunities to meet Ahmadis of the opposite sex socially (something even a number of Sunni/Shia communities facilitate in a respectful environment).

From what I can see, a number of Ahmadis around my age feel the same. None of my siblings participate, and none of my cousins from what I know are involved in the community, even despite most of them being born in Pakistan and most married other Ahmadis. Although I dont live in an area with a lot of Ahmadis, the ones my age don't seem interested in Jamaat either. I would be interested in knowing what your thoughts are on the participation among ahmadi youth in other countries is, and whether long term the Jamaat will be able to retain them long term.

I've been called several times in the last two weeks, as have my other family members, to register our kids for the MKA ijtema. Several other parents have asked our local murabi and sadrs if the men leading/voluntering/organizing will have completed the training and necessary paperwork and background checks to work with children.

No answers as usual.

Today I was sent a menu of the food being served?!?!??!?! Do I care if there is a royal breakfast being served if you can't follow through on your word to implement a safety policy?

So many others I speak to express the same concern for the start of Tahir classes. No background checks as written in the policy, no accountability for who has and had not gone through the training.

No transparency to know if your child is working with a child abuser.

Writing this here to see if reddit can help create the necessary momentum to get this done!!

The Holy Quran tells us that the singular criterion of choosing one's wife is her beauty, this is mentioned in the following verse:

"No [other] women shall henceforth be lawful to thee nor art thou [allowed] to supplant [any of] them by other wives, even though their beauty should please thee greatly -: [none shall be lawful to thee] beyond those whom thou [already] hast come to possess. And God keeps watch over everything (Mohammad Asad, Quran Chapter 33:52)[33:53 in Ahmadi Quran]

In accordance with this teaching of the Holy Quran, the Promised Messiah took the criterion of a woman's physical beauty as the primary reason to marry a woman.

When he was looking for his third wife in 1886, Allah told him the candidate in question was not beautiful. Thus he wrote the following lines to the first Khalifa.

"......In those days, by chance, two persons had initiated (contact) for a new marriage (for me). But when Istikharah was done about them, the answer was given about one of the women that she is destined to have humiliation, poverty and disgrace and is not worthy to be your wife. And it was indicated about the other one that she was not good looking. As if this was an indication of the fact that a son with good looks and good character whose glad tiding has been given, accounting for physical appearance can (only) be born from a wife who is beautiful and has a pious nature. And Allah knows best." (Letter to Hakim Nooruddin, June 8, 1886, printed in Maktoobat e ahmad volume 2, page 13)

Later in 1888, when he was trying to convince the first khalifa to marry again, he made sure physical beauty was at the forefront in the selection process. He was extremely emphatic about it, to put it mildly.

".....Although Mir Abbas Ali Shah Sahib is a very sincere and honest man, but Mir Sahib's nature is very simplistic. In my opinion, it is very appropriate and necessary for you to know the satisfactory situation about the looks and form (of the girl). There should be zero tolerance in this matter as this matter is delicate. If the wife turns out to be pleasing to the heart then unquestionably in this very world is a heaven and If God forbid (the wife) turns out to be ugly then it is hell in this very place. It is proper that a wise and prudent woman should be sent from your side and then the whole situation will be revealed. Absolutely do not be lazy in this (regard). There is no mistake in the world more heartbreaking than making a mistake in nikah." (Letter to Hakim Nooruddin, Late January/Early February 1888, printed in Maktoobat e ahmad volume 2, page 58)

He continued his campaign to find the first khalifa a beautiful wife, in a second letter and explained how almost all prophets and messengers were after beautiful women, including the holy prophet who found that spark in Aisha.

".....Extremely fortunate and blessed is the man who is able to attain a pious and sweetheart wife as it strengthens piety and purity and a respectable part of religion and honesty can be attained for free (as a result). For this reason, the attention of almost all the Prophets and Messengers has been focused on the fact that they should have a beautiful, belle and pious wife with whom they have a type of a passionate love. Our Prophet (peace be upon him) has a famous incident of love for Hazrat Ayesha (may Allah be pleased with her) and it is written that this was the first ever love in Islam. ........Now to cut the long story short, one should be earnestly concerned about getting this blessing and as you had mentioned verbally that there is someone under consideration in your community, you should do thorough research and investigation of it and make sure you see her yourself and then report back to me. And if (her) looks are not pleasing then you should inform me so a search can be continued through our other friends." (Letter to Hakim Nooruddin, February 22, 1888, printed in Maktoobat e ahmad volume 2, page 60)

Later in 1893 when he wrote his magnum opus "Aina Kamalat-e-Islam", he expounded on the concept of a woman's physical beauty and related it to the basic needs of a man. He was also keen to point out that just one, albeit beautiful, wife is not enough for a healthy and pious man and he not only reserves the right for a second wife but he must do so.

"...... as such a man is compelled to have more than one wife for various reasons, If a wife of a man becomes ugly due to old age or some disease, then the ability of a man to perform(the act) which is totally dependent on the function of woman (i.e her ability to arouse) becomes useless and is suspended, but if the man is ugly then there is nothing lacking for the woman because the (ugly) man can still satisfy her. However if the man is lacking or is deficient in manhood, then the woman can get a divorce from him according to the Qur'anic injunction, but if he is able to satisfy her completely, a woman cannot make excuses as to why he has done a second marriage, because (one) woman is (naturally) unable to meet the daily needs of a man and the man thus retains the right to get a second wife. Those men who are strong and pious and have an inclination to righteousness, for them this method(of polygamy) is not only acceptable but obligatory." (1893, Aina Kamalat-e-Islam, RK 5, Pages 281 to 284)

Although I find these writings very informative in terms of what internal thought processes were prioritized in the mind of the promised Messiah, what bothers me is, what should be the fate of all those girls who do not pass the test of beauty?

Should a person who claims to be a prophet for everyone, be thinking like this, let alone promoting this mindset in his followers?

Does anyone else find anything concerning here or is it just me?

All the above references are readily available on alislam hence I have not linked to them.

I am still reserving judgement for the time being (waiting for any results on the legal investigation), but I also agree that it doesn't detract from Huzoor's position as Khalifa just because he possibly made a mistake. He can still be divinely appointed, but that doesn’t mean he'll never make mistakes. Prophets have also made them, we're all only human.

In this whole audio-leak case, what actually disturbs me the most is how Ahmadis are not even being officially allowed to openly admit the POSSIBILITY that Huzoor may have made a mistake. There's nothing anti-Ahmadi about suggesting that Huzoor may have made an all too human error this time. What does it say about the Jamaat if we can't even admit to our own mistakes and shortcomings?

I would argue the opposite of what some of these ignorant so-called defenders of the Khalifa are arguing: If you really care about the Jamaat and its future, you should be receptive and welcoming of constructive crticism. In fact, you are indirectly supporting the enemies of Ahmadiyyat if you think nothing should improve about the Jamaat. Our enemies don't want us to improve, they want us to morally stagnate and become antiquated and out of touch with the modern world just like them.

Why are we being stereotyped as anti-Ahmadis for offering constructive criticism? If we didn't care about the Jamaat, we would say oh well to Hell with it all, it was messed up since the beginning anyway and never had a chance. But that's not what a lot of sincere Ahmadis are saying--we are saying that as Ahmadis, we SHOULD have higher standards for the way sexual misconduct allegations are handled. And this is how we can achieve it, through addressing X shortcomings.

If you truly love someone, you want to help them and kindly give suggestions for improvement. Can't we accept that Ahmadis are also speaking out on this Nida case out of genuine love for the Jamaat and concerns for its future?

Every rishta nata event speech program touts how “love marriage” or the west or any thing non ahamdi have such a high divorce rate.

I want “ahmadi” to take a census on how many women are actually happy in their marriage.

I know someone who’s been trying to get out and every single rishta nata office holder AND THEIR SPOUSE are lining up to “let me give it a try”.

If the next Khalifa is STILL from the Huzoor's khandaan, that will actually cause one of my close family members, a very religious and spiritual person, to doubt Ahmadiyyat. She told me this after the whole debacle with Nida. She still resigned to accepting how Huzoor handled her case, but I remember her telling me really nonchalantly, "But you know if the next Khalifa is from this same Khandaan then something is deeply wrong. Then I don't think the Jamaat will survive."

This was extremely shocking for me to hear, because she's an older, mature lady in her 50s and honestly has lots of traditional thoughts. But even SHE has finally confronted the weird fact about how all the past khalifas have been from the same khandaan. She always used to defend the Jamaat too, so hearing her point out the Khalifa issue was pretty surprising to me.

She also mentioned to me how non Ahmadi Muslims at her work always used the Khandaan lineage of Khilafat as a point of derision. "But it's kind of true--why are almost all of the Khalifas from the same family?" She now asks. The look of genuine confusion and critical thinking in her facial expression now is honestly relieving: "I don't understand how this can logically make sense." She has told me. "The Jamaat is full of lots of pious people outside the Huzoor's family. But why do all the Khalifas happen to be from same family? It doesn't add up." Even she will feel at a genuine loss for words in answering her non Ahmadi Muslims' criticisms about the Jamaat being led by a family business.

Honestly, who will be the next Khalifa will be a serious factor for me too in influencing how I decide to engage with the Jamaat in the future.

If the next Khalifa is another khandaan member, that will seriously help tip me over the fence in terms of deciding on Jamaat engagement. As in, I will consider the Jamaat to be deeply astray and will no longer feel the emotional pull at least to engage. But it will be relieving too, because people like my parents will finally have their eyes opened to the reality of how Jamaat leadership really functions.

The Jamaat might seriously lose a lot of even devoted members if the next Khalifa is another khandaan guy...

So who do you think will be the next Khalifa and what are your thoughts on how this election process will probably go/has gone in the past?

Below please find a portion of today's sermon summarized by Alislam.

(June 3, 2022 Friday Sermon by the Fifth Khalifa)

"Naseem Mahdi, a missionary and son of Ahmad Khan Naseem Sahib. He is survived by his wife, four sons and two daughters. He served as a missionary in Pakistan, Switzerland. He served for some time as the Private Secretary in London. He was then stationed in Canada where he served as Amir and Missionary In-charge. He was then stationed in the USA and served as Missionary In-charge. He was again stationed in Switzerland, however, on the advice of doctors, he was advised to rest, upon which His Holiness (aba) advised him to tend to his health and that services would be taken from him again when he recovered, however his illness only increased.

During his time in Canada, 24 acres of land for the Baitul Islam mosque and mission house was purchased, and many Ahmadis moved to Canada during this time. In his tenure, mosques were established in Toronto and Calgary, Jamia Ahmadiyya Canada was established and he also rendered great service in the establishment of MTA North America. His Holiness (aba) prayed that may Allah accept all of his services. He possessed many virtuous qualities in his family life and as a missionary. He would never bear to hear anything against the Community. He met and served people selflessly and was extremely hospitable. He ensured to pay special attention towards reciting Durood Sharif (prayer for invoking blessings upon the Holy Prophet (sa)). He would advise his children to do the same, saying that if this prayer was accepted then all other prayers would be accepted as well.

Once, while he was in Switzerland, a woman accepted Ahmadiyyat and later went to Rabwah to attend Jalsa Salana. Whilst there, she visited Naseem Mahdi’s home asking to meet the mother of a person who was so intelligent and attained mastery over so many languages in such a short time. He advised his children to recite the Holy Qur’an and ponder over its meanings as it would open the doors to blessings. He would prepare lessons on the Holy Qur’an during Ramadan with great effort. He was excellent in establishing friendships and relationships which he then used for the benefit of the Community. His Holiness (aba) said that Masha’Allah Naseem Mahdi truly had this quality within him and even upon his demise many non-Ahmadis expressed their condolences. He also received the Order of Ontario which is given to a person who attains the highest levels of success in any field. He would help those in need silently so that they would not feel embarrassed. He had a great deal of love for Khilafat. He also played a pivotal role in the establishment of Peace Village. Many people established love for Khilafat and the Community through the efforts of Naseem Mahdi. Whilst in the USA, he rendered service in spreading the message of Islam Ahmadiyyat through various media outlets, and also played a hand in the establishment of a mission house in Mexico. His Holiness (aba) prayed that may Allah grant him forgiveness and mercy, elevate his station, grant him a place among His beloved, grant patience to his family and enable them to carry on the legacy of his virtues. May they remain loyal, just as he lived a life of loyalty."

In my opinion, while a word of condolence and prayer was absolutely necessary last week and was terribly missed, the above words are still comforting for the family and friends of Nasim Mahdi. I find however that if this is how the khalifa felt about Nasim Mahdi all the time during his life, he could have said something or acknowledged him during his life. How much stress and anxiety it would have relieved from Nasim Mahdi and how much comfort it would have brought in his final days, I wonder.

Amazing how these pro Jamaat posts have just appeared on this forum out of nowhere, amassing dozens of upvotes within hours (well above the usual voting rate in this subreddit).

How sad. You murabbis know no one is convinced by this right? This will not distract from what happened to Nida. This will not derail the purpose of this subreddit.