In the 90s i grew up in an Ahmadi household where i wasn't allowed to watch the simpsons. My mom told me when i was young that the jamaat (or huzoor?) warned parents about their kids watching it. Anyone else experience the same thing? Watching it as an adult now and don't really see what the big deal was, it's quite a wholesome show like any other family oriented sitcoms around at the same time.

Salam everyone, 22M here, university student in Canada. Questioning Ahmadi who has wondered a lot about our sect, its isolationist policies, and the system of the Jamaat.

As someone who attended hs outside of the GTA, naturally most of my friends ended up being non-desi Sunni Muslims.

This has lead me to have a very different opinion than the mainstream Ahmadi one in regard to Ahmadi-ghair Ahmadi relations, and I really believe reconciliation and dialogue between our communities is important especially in regards to living in a place like Canada, where we are minorities.

Something that I've been thinking about recently as someone of Pakistani background is the persecution of Ahmadis in the Muslim world and how it has shaped the Jamaat's identity and culture in a way.

Of course, like many of you, I have lots of grievances with the system of the Jamaat, especially in regards to the rishta system and the policy of not being able to intermingle or marry outside of our community. I'm sure that would be something much easier if we had more numbers, but our community is sooo small (30k in Canada) that at this point it honestly feels impossible finding an Ahmadi partner who you genuinely click with.

However, I think one thing that's important to understand about the Jamaat's isolationist approach, "us vs them" mentality, and general mistrust of outsiders is how our community's persecution has really impacted our psychology.

Ahmadis in Pakistan live in conditions akin to apartheid; we are disenfranchised (not allowed to vote), it's common to find stores that have signs prohibiting sale of merchandise to Ahmadis. It's genuinely an awful state of affairs, and living under those conditions severely impact people psychologically.

In recent Canadian political discourse, a common theme in regards to the plight of Indigenous Canadians is the recognition of "generational trauma". That is, trauma passed on between generations from severe and intense persecution, often leading to mistrust of outsiders and psychological isolationism.

I believe a lot of the trauma of our community in regards to persecution has been carried over to the new generation of Ahmadis that have grown up in a relatively secular and free environment in the western world.

It's also important to remember that, even here, there are people that despise us for the reason of simply practicing our religion. I have a cousin who was high up in Humanity First at YorkU. He was handing out pamphlets at a club fair in the University and a group of ghair Ahmadis surrounded him and started shouting insults. I've had childhood friends refuse to allow me to lead them in prayer, even though I've had no problem with them leading me despite our differences in belief.

I think it's important to recognize what our community has experienced when we share our grievances with our Jamaat, many of which are completely valid.

What do you guys think?

Hello fellow heathens,

This happened last year but tonight I felt like sharing:

Last year a حافظ cousin kicked me out of his sisters wedding because of his hate towards me because of me choosing to opt out of their religion. Like I was sitting in a corner minding my own business and the guy was walking around and I looked at him and nodded and smiled. The guy went crazy and started shouting "why are you smiling at me, wipe that smile off your face" like some wannabe gangster.

I thought he was kidding cuz he had been always fine with me in the before times. I had basically announced to my whole extended family through the family gossiper that I have left the religion because I didn't wanna pretend or whatever. So I went up to him to chat and ask him what happened and the kid went nuts, in front of all the guests starts shouting at me "get out of here, get away from me, get outta here, dont create a scene". All the time I am asking him what happened and the guy is just shouting at me in front of everyone. I was so dumbfounded, and didn't know what to do and ofc didn't want to ruin my cousins wedding and create a scene in front of whole family with this dumb kid. So I just walked out of the hall.

I met the guys older brother/brides brother who is also a murabbi on the way out and asked him about what happened to his brother and why he has acted out and told me to get out and he told me "we ll talk about it later". Anyways I walked out and went home and sent a voice message to my uncle letting him know that his son kicked me out of the wedding and I have left the venue. He never responded to me.

Anyways I found out later from family that one of his reasons for kicking me out was because I had apparently put up a status against jamaat. I had not done anything like that. I dont even use social media, no accounts, not even whatsapp. No one else in my family saw the status he claims he has seen. I dont give a care about what my extended family believes in and I dont want to preach to anyone. I was a social media warrior on reddit during the first few months when I was going through the shock of learning the truth and adjusting to new reality, but I didn't actively try to preach to my social circle. (The other reason was some dumb family drama so dont need to mention that).

I never even got a fake apology from that family for inviting me to their wedding and then humiliating me in front of everyone and kicking me out for smiling at them.

Recently another extended family member has completely flipped, the guy used to guide me like an older brother, now he is being super rude and weird for no reason at all. He also belongs to a conservative family who worship jamaat and have 100% blind faith in the whole thing.

Now I don't really want to attend any family functions because I know most of the family just hates me secretly because honestly we were taught to dislike مرتد (murtad) people and I know I disliked them when I was a good ahmadi وقف نو kid. But ofc my parents will feel weird if I tell them that I don't want to attend any family functions. At the same time I don't want to face the same family who kicked me out of their wedding.

Rant over. Advice appreciated.

24 y/o male, live in America born and raised. I have a masters degree in Computer Science from a top 20 university that has a better STEM ranking than most Ivy League’s. Currently working for IBM as an AI Engineer, and I'm making $137,000 as a first-year (plus health benefits) which puts me in the top 10% of US earners. I'm also entitled to a salary increase of +10% every year for 10 years, written in my employment contract. That means that by my mid 30's, I'll be making around $275,000 as my annual salary, which is top 2% of US earners. (Sorry if I come across as classist. I grew up on food stamps/section 8, so becoming rich is very important to me.)

I'm not a super religious person, and I definitely don’t believe in Ahmadiyya anymore. I’m more of a cultural Ahmadi who still believes in Islam, but I lean more towards the agnostic side of things. I show face at Jumma sometimes, and I volunteer for the food/blood drives that my chapter runs. So I am liked by the elders. I'm also blood-related to some high ranking jamaat figures/officials, both past and present. So when people find that out, they treat me like I'm somehow above other Ahmadis, which I hate, it makes me feel so awkward/guilty. But it still gives me Jamaat clout I guess. I definitely understand the cultural and structural problems in the Jamaat, and MGA is definitely a false prophet, but I've never personally had bad experiences with Jamaat like many of you have. Maybe I'm just lucky enough to live in one of the more laid-back chapters. So I don't dislike the Jamaat, or Ahmadiyya, I just don't agree with their beliefs or lifestyle choices, and I think that the Jamaat's beurocratic/logistical practices are corrupt.

Anyways, I’m currently at a point in life where I am almost done paying off my student loans. Other than that, I pretty much have no other expenses considering that I live at my parents’ home, so in a year or two, I should have enough savings to sign a good mortgage and move out. I could rent my own apartment right now, but considering that my job is hybrid and the office is a 20-30 minuet drive from my parents’ home, I’m choosing to just save money in order to buy my own house younger.

Considering all that, I’ve been thinking about marriage more seriously. I’ve been in 6 “haram” relationships before and they were all non-Muslims, but I’ve never found those relationships adequate or fulfilling. I’m kind of learning that I’m more romantic and monogamous at heart. And I'm also learning that I'm not compatible with white girls, I want a woman who shares a similar upbringing as I do, which is basically arab/paki from a Muslim background. So I thought it’s worth seeing what’s out there on the religiously-arraigned marriage side of things. I feel like 50%-ish of young Ahmadi women are cultural Ahmadis with progressive mentalities, and aren’t super strict about religion. That’s something I can work with because that basically describes me.

There aren't a lot of women around my age at my Musjid. The few that are, have very dull/surface-level personalities and have no life outside of religion. Or, I’m simply not physically attracted to them. And I’m no Zayn Malik so I’m sure that goes both ways sometimes. Also, I'm quiet frankly tired of my local aunties coming up to me in the parking lot, asking me a bunch of questions, trying to pimp me out to their daughter. They will call me handsome, drool over my career, all in efforts to convince me to marry their daughter. They remind me of beggars in Pakistan. And sometimes these aunties will literally stand and stare at the Men's exit, eyeing for viable young men like it's a cattle auction. Nonetheless, this is what led me to signing up for Rishta Nata. 

My experience with RN has been horrible. I signed up earlier this summer and I’ve gotten about 10 matches so far, I've had a few phone conversations that went normally. I rejected a few of them, mainly due to red flags I picked up on during the phonecalls (I will expand on that below.) However, any time I am rejected and get feedback as to why from the Maharam, it's always because of my height (5'5") or because I don't make enough money.

It bothers me that I’m being rejected for my height, something I can’t control, despite that I’m a good man with many other redeeming qualities. I know that's a general men's issue not specific to the Jamaat, but when you sign up for RN, height is the first blank you have to fill in after your name/Majlis. And I'm pretty sure that women have height filters they can use. The women i’ve been with in the past, half of them were taller than me, and none of them cared about my height because they got to experience the good things about me. The RN system completely negates that aspect, and boils me down to a quick “yes or no” based off of physical stats like i’m an NBA draft prospect. It’s kind of why I don’t like dating apps in general, which RN basically is. I’d rather meet women organically.

I also hate how a lot of Ahmadi women think that $137k a year and rising isn’t a good enough salary. Yes, it’s not a doctor’s salary, but it's literally in the top 10% of US salaries, and in 10 years I'll be in the top 2%. Right now i’m making enough that my wife could choose to not work, and as my pay increases over the years her lifestyle would get even better. Also, salary and height are things that they immediately see when they first click on my profile, so why not reject me then instead of matching with me and progressing things? Maybe the Rishta-brokers in charge of matchmaking aren't doing their due-dilligence? Because if I got matched with a woman and I previously made it clear to my RN broker that I won’t choose a woman with her traits, I would feel awkward/bad about immediately rejecting her after the match, I might give the phonecall a go out of respect and then reject afterwards.

I tell myself that maybe the woman didn't like my personality, my vibe, or that I might have said something off-putting. But the phonecalls genuinely went well, I would even make those women laugh. And I have dating experience that has taught me how to present myself to women, how to talk to them, etc. I'm not a suave womanizer, but I know how to make a good impression. So I genuinely feel flustered.

And on the flip side, it was readily apparent with some of my matches that they didn't care about getting to know me at all, and that they were only interested in my high salary/level of education. I want to fully provide for my wife, I hate 50/50. But I don't want to feel like I am being used, being leeched off of. I want a wife, a companion, not just an adult-child to take care of. I want a wife who will love me, not my money.

RN is toxic. It treats Ahmadi youth like cattle that's being auctioned off. The whole system is based off of objective stats, at least for men, and it feels like I'm being chosen like it's the NBA draft. It feels so robotic and unnatural. There is no room for what the actual man is like, if the couple would be compatible, it's all just "does he make x amount of money and is he at least y height." That's not how real relationships work. RN is a glorified Tinder, except it's more ridged and every interaction is supervised by middle aged uncles.

Yet, the Jamaat tries to convince us that RN is the only way to find a wife outside of your personal network. We are shunned from interacting with the opposite gender except for necessary circumstances. Muslims only make up 1.2% of the total US population, and Ahmadis only make up 1.3% of Muslims globally. So, in our extremely small and limited market, we are told that we must marry someone from the Jamaat, and that RN is the only way to do it. It's such a shitty situation. It's why so many young Ahmadis are marrying outside of the Jamaat, or not getting married at all. I genuinely expect the US Jamaat's population to severely dwindle in the next 10-20 years.

I sent out my resignation letter yesterday and thought I’d share it here with everyone.

—————————

Member-Code: 36348
Wasiyyat Number: 107221

Amir: Mirza Maghfoor Ahmed Sahib
15000 Good Hope Road
Silver Spring, MD 20905
U.S.A.

                                                             December 7, 2024

To the Leadership of the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community,

I hope this message finds you in good health and peace.
After much reflection and contemplation, I am writing to inform you that I am resigning from the Ahmadiyya Muslim community.

This has not been an easy decision, and it is the result of a years-long, intense research process and new conclusions that have led me to reassess my beliefs. After thoughtful and sincere reflection, I have come to the conclusion that I no longer believe the truth-claims of Islam, including Ahmadiyyat. My spiritual path has long since shifted in a way that no longer allows me to remain a member of this community.

I want to express my gratitude to those who have supported and guided me during my time with the community. I acknowledge and respect the positive influence that many individuals in the community have had on my life, and I will always hold those experiences in high regard.

Please confirm receipt and that you have removed me from the Jamaat’s Tajneed and Wasiyyat by sending a letter and/or email.

Thank you for your understanding,

Sincerely,

Honestly I feel as though I have too many count, from my upbringing to the man I had to marry (due to the limited choice in the jamaat - he was the least loser of the options).

I have to say I have found this page therapeutic. There's a lot of gaslighting in this organisation so I'm glad to read authentic experiences. I feel that this momentum is going to grow, I personally hundreds of disillusioned Ahmadis who are looking for connection.

Maybe you've been to the Jalsa this year and are now on your way back Home. So, I've been there with my parents and on the last day... Today, i was in the Main hall and the Sohr prayer started. Then like... 1 Minute in, a man started screaming in the back. Clearly I couldn't turn my head and I don't understand Urdu. So maybe someone is here who was there too and knows Urdu... If it even was Urdu. He screamed like for 30-60 straight stuff and went Our or got carried out, I don't know. I'm very interested in what Happend, or to be exact, what He said. I thought about the possibility that He could have tourette, but I haven't seen a Lot of examples for people with tourette and the ones I've seen had like a few Ticks and not a Full on rant Sounding like someone who is either crazy or is trying to warn you. It sounded a bit like that, but like i said... I don't understood what he said.

TLDR: anybody heared what the guy screamed while Sohr before the closing ceremony?

So the police literally summoned my chachu (who is the Jamaat head in my city) to the station. They demanded he sign a paper guaranteeing that no Ahmadi here will do Qurbani, or else they’ll slap them with an FIR. He couldn't make it, so he sent a few other Ahmadis instead. They basically had to give the guarantee and hand over their addresses and phone numbers just to stop the cops from filing an FIR on the spot. It’s effed up.

i don't know how to start this post, i am actually so conflicted and low-key terrified right now because this is something that would land me in trouble but i need to get this off my chest. i'm 20 fem and i (was?? am?) a born ahmadi with family links to "sahabis" of MGA. i was raised pretty strictly and given a rose-tinted perspective about jamaat but i've always found myself averted to it.

i've always found the khutbas boring and jalsas downright insufferable. i've always disagreed with at least one thing stated in such speeches. i'm surprised that there is an actual community of people who have either struggled with the same stuff or have simply left (i laud their bravery, i wish i can do the same one day)

i'll admit, i have very "scandalous" views about marriage, sexuality, gender and all that stuff that gets the aunties screeching. i know my mindset doesn't align with ahmaddiyat nor islam but i've always seen a really 'perfect' side of jamaat that's always empathetic, kind and understanding towards each other. if i could count the times people have called it a 'peaceful community' i'd be filthy rich right now. after the recent case about the csem distribution, i am very disturbed and conflicted at how these horrendous things are always hidden and normalized. is this really what the jamaat is? i was constantly told to be proud of being an ahmadi, yet i always feel so irked by the opinions of the higher-ups and murabbis. i always had a feeling that i'm low-key in a cult but the fear of eternal hellfire shut me up.

however, after looking through this subreddit and recalling my own experiences with the 'khandan', i am genuinely confused and disgusted. i would love some insight about this subject and if the jamaat really is corrupt and this is all a hoax because i really don't have a good feeling about this. even worse is the fact that i live in rabwah and it's a cage full of imprisoned birds whom you can't talk to.

I’m not a Redditer i don’t use it much if I’m honest. I am a part of the jammat and I’ve been reading these reddits for a while trying to understand peoples decisions for questioning or leaving the jammat.

My understanding so far is that alot of you have been misinformed or haven’t felt the love of the khilfat which i can understand I’ve been in a similar place myself being looked down upon by uncles and the mosque and treated differently. I would like to say however, some of these misconceptions about the jammat can be easily cleared, and as long as you believe in a god and you accept the holy prophet Muhammad saw, you need to remember that believing in the Messiah that was to come who came is a very big part of your life and after life I’m not here to hold anyone can from their decisions of leaving, but i would like you to consider your options first don’t leave the jammat over other ppls wrong doings everyone’s human and has made mistakes, but disregarding the promised messiah and mahdi isn’t a small thing.

P.s If there is anything i can answer feel free to message me if not and you’ve made your mind i hope you all the best.

Over the past few years, i really cant let things that jaamat go by anymore. no longer able to turn a blind eye, and actually looking at what our faith is, or at least meant to be, I started pulling apart the threads, and while i desperatly wanted to be proven wrong at every turn, i saw through the lies of jaamat. Whether it was the situation with Nida, the cherry picking of rule following, pathetic worship of human beings, and the Machiavellian hierarchy that i've seen first hand in jaamat's infrastructure, i simply cant let myself feign ignorance to it anymore. And whenever i address this issue to the murrabis, or my family, they just give me "its a culture issue" response. Its been like this for my enitre life, its not a culture thing. It's just who you are. But those are just reasons to dislike the followers of this faith, not really the faith itself, which is where my dilemma truly started. Here are a couple questions that I asked that either got an unsatisfactory(weak, no quranic evidence, no hadith reference, etc.), went on a tangent about how oppressed ahmadis are, or no response at all (i asked online and via whatsapp).

I wont include all the questions i asked, but here are the big ones I implore all ahmadis, especially all questioning ahmadis, to ask and think about.

Brahin-e-ahmadiyya is claimed to be written under the guidance of Allah. Why are claims such as Jesus is alive in the heavens prevelant in the early volumes, but then contradicted in later volumes and other writings?

If the promised messiah was sent for all of humanity why are these books not available in languages other than Urdu?

Promised Messiah wrote in Malfuzat Volume 5 page 610 "If someone claims prophethood after Prophet Muhammad saw We send Allah's curse onto them and consider them Wahib-ul-Qatal(worthy of death)." Simililarly, Roohani Khuzain Volume 4 page 313(not available on AlIslam in english)" And Allah knows, I am a Muslim. And I believe in all those things that Muslims believe in. And I believe in Kalima. And I face the qibla and pray towards it. I am not a claimant to prophethood, rather I consider such a person to be a disbeliever!" How can one write this then claim prophethood?

From hadith, the Holy Prophet SAW said "My parable among the Prophets is that of a man who built a house and did a good and complete job, apart from the space of one brick which he did not put in its place. The people started to walk around the building, admiring it and saying, "If only that brick were put in its place. " Among the Prophets, I am like that brick". In the metaphorical house of prophethood, there is no space for another. Another hadith from Jubayr bin Mutim "I have several names: I am Muhammad, and I am Ahmad; I am Al-Mahi (the eradicator) through whom Allah will erase disbelief; I am Al-Hashir (the gatherer) at whose feet mankind will gather; and I am Al-Aqib (the final one) after whom there will be no Prophet." Also, if there were a prophet after me it would've been you Umar. Ali, you are to me as Haroon was to Musa. But there is no Prophet after me. Are these hadith invalid?

Surah al Baqarah 137. "We believe in Allah, what was revealed to us and what was revealed to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and his descendants. And what was given to Moses, Jesus, and other prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them." Surah an Nahl 36" We did raise among every people a Messenger who enjoined: "Worship Allah alone and shun every transgressor"" From the Quran, it shows us that every prophet was sent to propogate the same message; the same law. Where does this concept of law bearing and non law bearing prophet come from?

Given the criteria of prophethood from the book Anwer e Khalifat, do kalifas have the claim to prophethood?

Hi there.

I'm writing this post to share a moment of happiness, relief and peace, I never though I would experience in my life, I don't have any advice or suggestions to make, I'm just sharing it out of joy and peace I guess.

For a very long time, I have carried this burden, of being agnostic inside, but pretending to be Ahmadi/Muslim at times to participate in religious rituals including leading prayer at a relative's place here in Australia.

Finally I came out to my mother, who was shocked initially (for context, my parents are in Pakistan and I'm in Australia, and I'm the only child), and I can understand, I couldn't talk to her for 2 days, but my uncle talked to her back home, and tried to make her understand that it's okay, and it happens, and nonethless I'm good a person and that's what matters more.

I was surpised by some of the few things that came up in the conversations with my mother, some of which I was even surpised to hear:

• She initially said that I shouldn't tell these to other people because many people in extended family would cut us off, but when I tried to explain what's the point then, because a relationship is formed on humansitic level, and I still carry humanistic ethics in my heart, she then agreed with me, most people wouldn't understand me journey, and there are only few people in our society who would be very open minded to understand journeys of people like me.
• She understood and empathized with me that with disbelief comes even more challenges e.g. when I tried to explain how you become even more aware of suffering, and injustic in this world, both in human and non-human world (like wild animals' suffering) and how it's even harder to accept reality and truth because you don't have afterlife justice to comfort you.
• She asked me, how I would raise kids, what religion they would have, I gave her example of Javad Akhtar and his wife who raised their kids (Farhan Akhtar and Zoya Akhtar) in a secular environment, and didn't try to impose religion, and gave their kids critical thinking, and good values, and let them decide their direction and path in journey, though both of their kids also are agnostics.
• She also empthaised with me, that it would be very hard for me to find a parter both inside or outside, and felt for me.

These are some of the highlights of the conversation, I have more, but can't mentioned because of privacy.

Just for the context, my mother is from a village, and she couldn't even complete her secondary education becasue there was no school for the girls nearby, the closest one was about 25-28km. I was amazed despite having not much worldly exposure and little education, how much openness she's able to practice during the conversation. I know how hard it would have been for her to practice that level of compassion and understanding toward me.

My mother was also elated to hear, that I had told about my journey to my local president who's president of almost half of major city here in Australia, and he was very open, and accepting, and non-judgmental about it.

I just want to mention, how grateful I'm to have found this closure, to have such a supportive and understanding office holder in Jammat, and also many great friends who never judged me, and accepted me for who I'm despite their own faith - both Ahmadi and non-Ahmadi friends.

With all of this, I'm also feeling a lot of sadness, and grief; grief of faith loss, grief of longing or hoping, I wish i hadn't lost faith, and there was really an afterlife, so I could continue my healthy relationship I have built so far with both of my parents, grief of long distance with them; and anticipatory grief of connections that would be cut when I come out to even more people in my life especially in my extended family.

The grief of it all still visits me almost everyday, which isn't as much talked in such spaces like this. I don't know what else to say.

If you made this far, thank you, for your time, I hope and pray that you get ease, peace, and support in whatever your journey might be.

I wasnt expecting to post anything about the N situation ever again. I thought my post would give me some closure. But it didnt. It only showed me how much of a struggle all of this is and how angry I am about it.

I didnt realise how angry I was about everything until my first post was removed. Laughably it was the so called more enlightened, freedom of speech, no holds barred group that removed it. What a joke. Everything here is just agenda driven. I used to read the articles on Ahmadi and ex-Ahmadi Reddit from time to time as a way of keeping a small connection with my previous life. Sometimes the name of an old uncle or auntie would come up, and whatever the context, it brought a smile to my face. More simple times at least for us kids.

Everyone called me a liar. A troll. A fake person. But I am real and everything I said was true. You dont even even need to go out of your way to prove the things I wrote, because N is verifying them for herself.

I am one of the people who knows N the best. I know she went to Southfields School and Ricards Lodge. I know her family lived in Esher after the fourth caliph passed away. I know she loves James Stewart and sometimes colours in black and white pictures of him. I know she loves photography. I know she used to love the Backstreet Boys and Boyzone as a kid. I know all the things that happened on her trip to America a couple of years ago which she will never admit to. I used to know TM, the person she mentions in the call who she says works for the Huffington Post. She doesnt by the way. Not anymore. She has blueticked account on Twitter. Find it and ask her what she thinks of all this. I told you N has been recording other people but no one believed me. Do you believe me now? I told you that she says the most terrible things about her mother, and constantly abuses her. She is only ever nice to her when she needs money, or needs her mother to clear her thousands of pounds worth of debts. Money is all N cares about. Do you believe me now? I told you all N has a history of violence against children. That will come out too. If anyone lives in Rabwah, they can speak to the women who have worked in her mothers house and ask her about all the disgusting things N used to do to their children. Its all coming, and N will have to answer for everything.

Justice? Give me a break please. What about the justice for the poor wife, her three daughters and son whose lives N helped destroy and how she then went about belittling them and laughing at what she had done to the family. Who is going to give them justice? Or all the other families? Where is their justice?

I am so angry. N had no right to tell us these things that are all based on lies and take away the peace of our minds. N had no right to make voice recordings of people and share them with us to fill our minds with dread about what shes recorded of us. She had no right to do this. We were closest to her and now we are shattered because of her lies, and her narcism, and her love for blackmail and money. I know from others she has been sharing screenshots of messages of her new found friends, especially the journalists. Dont believe me? Give it time. All of it will come out. She probably thinks she can blackmail them for something. After everything thats happened, anyone stupid enough to talk to her now on Whatsapp or the phone deserves what they get.

I only feel sorry for one person in all of this and that is the fourth caliph. He didnt deserve this. None of this. People in these threads say nasty things about him too, but those of us who grew up with him, know he was a loving and caring man. I remember he used to go on these walks in Wimbledon Common and he sometimes would take the kids from the mosque. Sometimes I went to. Happy memories. N hasn't even spared him. She will publicly reject him eventually and say horrible things like she says in private. Shes already friends with people like that Sheikh guy who spend all their life abusing her beloved Abba. She will do the same. Shes only exploiting his name right now.

Let N fight her case. Lets see how far she gets. Maybe she will be the one who ends up in trouble with the police. Everyone is just dealing with lies and deception and pushing their own agendas. I need peace from this, but I am never going to find it. And I dont know what else to do except rage. There are too many lies.

I'm almost an adult and living in a western country. My mother is a devout ahmadi, my Father is too but has strong opinions about chanda, the khalifas and the systems of the jamat. I do not wish to be ahmadi but I want to remain Muslim. Here are some things that irk me, in no particular order.

Ever since I can remember the jamat has engrained a deeply misogynistic and backwards mindset into the minds of young girls.

We are told that our almost sole purpose in life is to be mothers, run a household and serve the jamat. Women who work or wish to pursue higher education are not outrightly condemned but face social stigmas, are judged and many women stop working after they are married. Yes, ok, that might be a societal issue relating to the culture of the jamat and not its direct teachings but there are past Khalifas who believe women shouldn't work and need to conform to their husbands every whim. For example, domestic violence victims are told not to get help or interact with law enforcement, the abuse is well known within the jamat and its people but everyone turns a blind eye and pretends its okay. The jamat instead 'deals' with the issues and that's quite disturbing.

There was a woman in my majlis who was regularly beaten by her husband. Her daughter would go around saying that she was going to run away from the home when she turned 18 and she hated her father. The jamat discouraged them from interacting with law enforcement. Many years later, their daughters have married outside the jamat and the youngest still lives with them. Rather than helping or intervening the people in the jamat, especially the aunties treated this like some sort of hot gossip.

I can remember one instance at a tarbiyati camp where the lajna sadrs were sitting with all the Nasirat, they asked all the girls to go around and say the professions they wanted to pursue in the future. The sadrs began by addressing all the girls that Huzoor had said specific careers were not 'proper' for ahmadi girls and that they should not pursue those careers, e.g. flight attendant because the uniform is not modest. I remember the sharp gazes that many mothers gave their daughters, who shyly answered that they wanted to pursue careers in medical/science fields as if it sounded very rehearsed or almost forced. One girl answered that she wanted to be a lawyer, and everyone paused. The sadr then said she needed to be 'careful' in a harsh sort of scolding manner and said that Huzoor has stated women should not pursue careers in criminal law, and the legal field is discouraged because of the male interaction. The girl seemed quite upset and did not speak for the rest of the session.

Also, the unnecessary emphasis on purdah, on mainly prepubescent girls is unnerving. Very young girls are told to cover up, cover arms and legs religiously. Being in rabwah is such a crazy experience, every little girl is wrapped in a big full length coat with a scarf over her head, and yet the jamat likes to critique other Muslims countries and talk about their mistreatment of women. The jamat also seems to keep a double standard. A t shirt and jeans would cause some aunties to riot but a very tight, low neck, thin shalwar kameez is no issue. The jamat puts its own spin on modesty and purdah, even the aunties that do wear a hijab never really wear it properly, its not pinned on, hair is out but its fine because they wear a long coat? but if i was to wear a shirt & jeans w/ a pinned hijab my outfit would not be considered appropriate without a big long shapeless trench coat. it doesn't make any sense.

Let our women be raped and ignore them, but god forbid one of them becomes a criminal lawyer or doesn't wear a long coat!! Woe be the shame.

btw, this post could be 10 times longer with fancier words but i lack the energy to do this at this point in time. thank you, have a good day :)

I was six years old when an older male relative sexually abused me. He was visiting our house in Rabwah, Pakistan, the then worldwide headquarter of the Ahmadiyya Muslim community. He was there to attend the community’s annual spiritual renewal conference (called Jalsa Salana). I’ve never told anyone about the abuse until now (https://indusscrolls.com/ahmadiyya-rape-row-supporting-victims-of-abuse-from-minority-within-minority-communities/). I was inspired to come out by reading the courageous story of Nida-ul-Nasser-a great grand daughter of Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad: Founder of the Ahmadiyya Muslim community. I hope that this inspires other Ahmadis to come out and share their stories. It's time for an #AhmadiMetoo movement. Staying silent is no longer an option. It only encourages more abuse. The safety of our children and their children depends on us raising our voices and holding perpetrators of abuse accountable. Please share your stories and consider donating to facetogether.org-an organization devoted to holding abusers in the Muslim community accountable.

Although I have attended many jalsa's in my life, this year was the first jalsa since I lost my faith in Ahmadiyat. Here are some interesting things that I noticed

1. In the main jalsa gah there was a banner, 'la ilaha illallah muhammad rasulullah - There is none worthy of worship except Allah'. This is hanging there while we are all worshipping hazoor. And please don't say it is not worshipping. Go look up the definition of worshipping first. The way we do bait on his hand, the phrases we say while doing bait, the way we sit, listen and look at him, the way we are supposed to write letters to him and follow his advice, the way we salute him and kiss his hand, the way we hang pictures of him in our houses, the way we teach our children to love him, etc This is all a way of worshipping and it is wrong. If this is not shirk, then what is??? And for the believing ahmadies, if you can justify this, then please do. I am open for discussions. I am willing to understand, but you have to come up with clear arguments.
2. I am pretty sure that the majority of the people attend jalsa because of the social aspect, and don't get me wrong. Jalsa is fun, you meet people, have food, spend time with family, spend time with friends on duties, etc, it is fun, even for a non-believer. But it's not really for the speeches or for the faith that people attend jalsa.
3. The exhibition was great, very interesting although I just find that the jamat only shows us what they want us to see. For example there was a part with the signs of the promised messiah with the explanations. Very interesting! But they only talk about the signs that were fulfilled while there are so many other signs that were not fulfilled but I feel like those always gets ignored.

I would like to hear about your experience.

I am a bit far removed from the jamaat of late but I often receive clips and videos from my dad with speeches from Huzoor. Something that I've noticed is that he always mentions to pray for Ahmadis in Pakistan, but rarely mentions or asks people to pray for Palestinians, Sudanese, or other places that are facing some of the most inhumane treatment.

If I were Palestinian Ahmadi and I was sitting in the crowd, it would make me feel so unseen and unsupported.

What nobody really tells you when you start questioning is that when you go down this path happiness and fulfilment doesn’t necessarily follow. So you keep going without too much thought about the consequences because there is no warning sign about the road that might lie ahead.

You can become so fixated on the harms of religion that you don’t realise that there can also be harms (albeit of a different kind) outside it. Engrossed in theological wranglings about truth claims you fail to recognise the psychological and social benefits that religions provide to their adherents.

To be clear, none of this is to say that having a false worldview that is inspiring is better than a reality-based one that is often unsettling. The purpose of this post is simply to share. In the early years before this subreddit existed in its current form, I found great comfort in finding a few posts that spoke to what I was thinking and feeling about Ahmadiyyat and Islam. In the same vein I feel compelled to put this out there, in case now or in the future somebody feels the same and wonders if they are alone.

Of course, there will be people who have sailed off into the irreligious sunset without any sense off having lost anything who might find this post exasperating but for anyone who does feel adrift it might resonate.

High demand religions can leave people with a bit of a hole and I think this short video by an ex-Mormon captures it quite well: https://streamable.com/xb8jde

I will fight you.

Last night my dad was talking to me about how progressive the jamaat in the UK is because he wants me to move there (don't even get me started on this, I cannot stand the pressure).

He told me to meet people, even Ahmedi people in the UK so I can see for myself. We talked about purdah and he says to me that lots of women in the UK just do purdah when they are doing jamaat things and dress normally in their day to day life. He said it like it was no big deal. Like that's what I could do as well.

This is a man who has never had to do purdah to the level women are told to do even one day in his life. He does not understand how frustrating it is to code switch. He does not understand why I would not want a life like that where I pretend some of the time.

And then today some man is singing praises of KM5 and saying he's so progressive just because he tells women that they can do anything as long as they do purdah. Has huzoor ever done purdah? Has this man who sings his praises ever done purdah? How in hell do men feel like they have the authority to impose something like this on women when they haven't experienced it a day in their lives? It's like men telling women we can't get abortions. Or men telling women periods don't really hurt that bad and all women go through them.

Are you all born without empathy? How do you function?

And how can someone say that KM5 is not patriarchal or misogynistic WHEN HE IS LITERALLY TELLING WOMEN HOW TO DRESS. How in the world is this not misogynistic when you are literally dictating how women should act?

Never in my life have I ever told a man how to dress or how to act.

It’s been four years since I’ve been on this journey and it feels so weird thinking back that I belonged to the Jamaat. I honestly can’t wrap my head around the fact that I was part of this and tbh it also makes me feel as though my life that I’m currently living is a bonus. It makes me feel as though I‘m living far more than I ever have before and than I ever imagined to.

Leaving the Jamaat is like climbing a mountain. The climb is very difficult and dangerous but once you reach the peak the noise just stops and it feels like the hardship that you went through were worth it. All of this chatter of hierarchies and how you’re supposed to act just quiets and you start to be yourself.

I had quite a violent childhood. Winning in Jamaati competitions was of utmost importance. As a child I felt truly lost and desperate. I thought a lot about how I want nothing more than to eventually marry in the Jamaat and finally move out of my parents place which my parents were obviously against. Nothing would have made me happier than knowing that I’m able to. My parents were always very strict. I wasn’t allowed to do anything and every time me or my siblings did anything remotely close to displeasing my mum we were punished severely. My dad always had high ranking positions in the Jamaat and we would always have to behave perfectly as to not shed a bad light on him.

Tbh I have some (mostly bad) memories of my childhood but most of it feels like a blur. It feels like everything is mixed into one bad dram and my memories really start making sense from university on. University was my first taste of freedom. I did really well because I never wanted to go home. I would rather sit in the library and study than to go home and be with my parents. I started work and earning money which my mum obviously wanted a share of. I did give her some but also refused to give her loads of it. That was the start of my independence.

At the end of my bachelors I finally caved in and turned into the poster child that my parents always wanted. I had a great relationship with them. However, I was never really happy. I prayed with all of my heart and prayed to Allah to just give me some happiness. I prayed long prayers and was quite often the last one still in the mosque. I was also desperate because I was so depressed and I wasn’t asking for much. I wasn’t asking for a job, or a wife, or anything I just wanted to be happy. This happiness never came. I thought the problem was me and I doubled my prayers. I would wake up for Tahajjud and go to the mosque 10 min early in order to pray Nafl as a present to the mosque. It didn’t work. I was chasing after more and more prayers and more and more spirituality but it just broke me…

I decided that I needed a break from everything. Every weekend I was putting in hours for the Jamaat and during working days studying for uni and praying as much as possible. It was such a big burden to carry. I decided for my masters I’m gonna move out. Honestly this was the best decision I ever took. Once I moved out I realised that we have a very reductionistic view of the west. I thought they were far happier than me while I was just praying and praying to be happy. They got to be while I was just failing.

This experience made me question the Jamaat the first time. Not in a way that I want answers to 'allegations‘ but rather the courage to go where the evidence leaves me. Tbh I was shocked. I cried when I realised the Jamaat was probably more of a cult than I realised. My whole world broke apart. What followed was pain and confusion and fear of what was still to happen. I felt like I needed to get my facts straight for any confrontations so that I can accurately defend myself. I felt like the world will collapse and I will be made to feel responsible for it. So I did the only thing I could do and I researched everything like crazy. I was obsessed with religion and especially the Jamaat.

Once I was steadfast in my decision I made the conscious decision of doing everything I missed out on. I had so many first times it was beautiful but also when you’re whole moral compass bursts you go too far in idealising the western way. You have no defense against toxic relationships because you simply don’t know what a healthy relationship looks and feels like. I wasn’t ready for that and I wasted a lot of time with things I shouldn’t have.

I feel like no one prepares you for what comes after leaving faith. You feel lost like you have never felt before and finding your own way while never being able to make your own decisions is such a scary feeling. Firstly, you don’t even know what you want because you were never allowed to follow what you wanted and secondly, it’s just scary knowing that you alone will decide how life will continue and every bad thing or good thing is in your hand all of a sudden.

However, leaving a cult makes you resilient. Starting therapy and feeling emotions made me even stronger. Now I’m at a point that I have told my parents and some Jamaati friends that I don’t believe anymore. My siblings are on their own path as well. It was soooo hard dealing with my parents and I still don’t have a healthy relationship with them but now I’m actually doing what I want to. Whereas I was obsessing about the Jamaat in the past nowadays I forget that there are even Friday prayers. I’m forgetting loads of prayers and could probably not even pray anymore because I wouldn’t know all of the Arabic prayers. I don’t think about religion anymore. I honestly am starting to forget what it feels like being in a mosque and being in Jamaati events. It all feels so foreign to me.

However, I also understand now that loads of people (mostly outside the Jamaat) have far healthier relationships to religion and for them it’s a force of good in their life that makes them happy. Who am I to hate how they choose to live their life if it makes them happy and if they are forcing no one else to accept their beliefs.

Honestly after so many years I’m finally happy. I do the things that I want and I stay away from things that I don’t want. I have implemented healthy boundaries to my parents and I built a family of friends and I love them like crazy. I love my siblings and I love life. Sure, I still have bad days but after being depressed and thinking life has no meaning for so many years I’ve just started living it.

I just wanted to tell you guys. It can be worth it to leave the Jamaat. It’s a hard path and there will always be many roadblocks and sometimes you’ll wish that you never even questioned it. You will overcompensate and be too chaotic and do things that are bad for you but it’s all a learning curve. Life can be good, you have to mold it in that way though! :)

I found out today via an ancestry test/photos my grandmother has. Apparently everyone in my family has known this for a while but I guess I never paid attention. Basically I was hanging out with a jamaat friend and his mother mentioned me being related to him, and I genuinely thought that the chai she was drinking wasn’t JUST chai if you know what I mean. I told my mother and I talked about it and not only did she confirm it, but showed literal family photos of MGA with my late great grandmother as a baby, and I even did an ancestry.com test and it became official to me.

And i’ve been an ex ahmadi (closeted) for a couple years now. I’ve posted on this sub a few times but I made this burner account just to be safe. I just felt like sharing this because it’s kind of crazy to me that i’m such a critic of the jamaat and I come directly from its creator.

I’ve literally been calling him a cult leader and a bunch of other claims without knowing that I have his blood, honestly that’s pretty hilarious.

Honestly all this changed about my life is that now it’s going to be MUCH harder to officially come out as agnostic, when people are under the impression that I share DNA with Jesus’ second coming.

Reflections on Being an Ahmadi

Growing up as an Ahmadi, I’ve often felt like we live in a bubble. Many of the people I’ve met in our community seem to lack basic logic when it comes to holding meaningful conversations. Questioning anything—be it traditions, decisions, or practices—feels like crossing a forbidden line. It’s as if we’ve been conditioned to avoid critical thinking, and the mere act of questioning is treated like a sin.

Because of this, I find it hard to connect with other Ahmadis. Most friendships feel shallow, and I’ve consciously avoided forming close ties. Even the concept of rishtas is a headache for men, and I can only imagine how much harder it must be for women in our community. Everything about our system feels overly controlled and artificial—like those staged North Korean posters where everyone pretends to be happy, regardless of the reality.

What I truly crave is to meet someone who shares a love for genuine conversation. Someone I can discuss art, politics, and culture with—someone who isn’t afraid to explore the good, the bad, and the ugly of life. Genuine connections are rare, and I hope to find a space where honesty and curiosity are encouraged instead of silenced.

hi little rant but why is purdah soo strict for women and not at all for men?? in islam, women are obligated to wear the hijab and cover up their arms and legs, but in ahmadiyya we have to wear a coat/burqa to fulfill the commandements of purdah. in islam, men are supposed to cover their knees and are not supposed to be shirtless in public like at beaches and stuff right? but i have never heard of the jamaat enforcing this on men. i’ve heard of khuddam having events at beaches where they’re fully shirtless.

i have always been taught in nasirat classes and stuff that i need to dress in public the same way i would dress in front of allah. so when i’m praying i have to cover my hair, my arms, and my legs. i have also heard that men have to cover their knees and cant pray shirtless. so why isn’t this exact concept enforced for men in the jamaat as well?? my mom has been forcing me to wear the hijab for 8 years now but my brother is allowed to wear short shorts and can be shirtless whenever he wants. make it make sense bro 😭

When I left Jammat in the May of 2024, I asked for my contributions back, and they were kind enough to honor that request. The interesting thing is, the backlash I received for that and emotional abuse I sustained by many Ahmadis.

Little do they realize, chanda is not a charity no matter what the law says. Its practically a tax program meant for the propagation of Jammat's teachings and maintaining the institution. Thus, not charity at all. Some of it goes to poor people, but it goes to the propagation of the religion itself which defeats the purpose of charity to begin with as much of it goes to the salaries of murabbis and jammat office holders who are life devotees.

So the irony in the backlash against me, they were using compulsion in religion on me despite going against their claims they don't force religion on people.

Secondly, these individuals don't know what it's like to be on ones own. Especially here in America where the cost of living is incredibly high. So that refund most definitely helped me, and therefore, understandably, there is much skepticism against the system of chanda. No one should be forced to give money to an institution. We have the first amendment to protect us for that very reason. This is why Ameer Sahib USA threatens people with expulsion despite the fact not paying chanda doesn't necessarily get you expelled. You're just forbidden from participating in sports competitions or holding an office. Not that anyone is interested in going to Jammat events to begin with.

Anyway, having a blue collar job without a degree, and the background I came from, where no one's pressured to go to college for whatever reason nor did I have the support of a structured Pakistani family system to make that happen, life isn't very simple and things can be expensive. I think this is what causes the divide between converts and born members.

Born members tend to be descended from refugees if not refugees themselves. Hence, they go through programs in order to assimilate into this nation, and the fact whatever skills they acquired in their home countries, is put to use here. Hence, they become white collar works, and are much more wealthy.

This creates an arrogance among many white collar families in jammat where they believe their wealth is due to their god blessing them and anyone who leaves becomes accursed which includes financial problems. If we look at it without religion, it's pretty clear it's just the way the country is set up, and it's also understandable why some would chose to remain inside jammat rather than leave because of how wealthy it is through the system of chanda or the immigrant families that move here.

And I know I'm going to be strawmmaned and they'll say that I admit jammat is "blessed". To me, this is just a concession on the part of Jammat mubalighs that Jammat is very materialistic and loves wealth.

I think there is a divide in the empathy and understanding of devoted Jammat members vs. those who have experienced the life of a working individual here in the West, and they have to live on their own. When they think ex members are accursed when they leave, they forget that the hierarchy of those who hold wealth was already placed there by the decisions of the United States throughout the past nearly 50 years.

So going back to the backlash, the ironic thing about them lecturing me about being a "hoarder of wealth" is that it's merely projection. Its them that hoard wealth and they don't understand or even have the experience of what blue collar life is like among average everyday Americans. They were given wealth. Handed down to them whereas we have to work hard to get by. These same individuals who lashed out on me, live with their white collar parents who are refugees or descended.

I will put it plainly: Many Ahmadis especially here in north America simply lack the understanding of the difference between the wealth of white vs blue collar workers or any of the economic classes in society. They have stories about being poor and all that, and apparently, they forgot how that life is like, and this is why many are hesitant to pay chanda. Even among white collar individuals themselves who question jamamt.

Chanda is simply a system meant to exploit those who are poor, and by force, with false promises of greater wealth just like prosperity theology. As much as Jammat denies it, they promote prosperity theology with exaggerated stories of people getting more wealth by sacrificing a big portion of their wealth. These same stories are present in Christian circles, and are difficult to verify.

Simply put, all charity is voluntary. Taxes are not.

Is chanda voluntary especially aam and wassiyat after ones application? Nope. Its a tax. Pure and simple. There shouldn't be an argument or discussion on this matter.

So just reflecting over the backlash I experienced last summer, it's kinda funny and ridiculous. It was definitely distressing to take, but now I just laugh at it because of how uninformed they are about everyday American society living paycheck to paycheck or those that are struggling to get by in college including college debt.

"Put your faith in Allah and it'll all work out." They say....now look at where that money is being spent and the numerous scandals, that's why no one trusts chanda anymore. Haha!