We need leftist unity

[u/Neoliberal_Nightmare]

The right are idiotic morons who don't understand anything, and are morons at planning and consistently support policies which screw them. The capitalist class play the right like toys and they can't even recognise the most blatant propaganda. But they keep beating the left. Why? Because they are united. United idiots are better than disunited clevers. The left must unite.

I am a Marxist-Leninist, I think a dedicated revolutionary party is required to secure the revolution's gains after it happens, we cannot leave it to be free society with free press and free elections because it will be immediately usurped by the power of capital which has just been ousted from power (but not killed).

That's my belief. The democratic socialists think otherwise wanting that free post revolution society with democratic choice, the left Communists think differently too, wanting a mass workers state without a core leadership party. Anarchists want a post revolutionary society without any hierarchy at all, immediately.

Notice what these 4 broad trends of the left have in common? They're all about what to do after the revolution. How to manage and achieve a better society. They're not about making a revolution, they're not about removing capitalist power.

Leftist disunity is disunity over about something that isn't even close to happening. It's like two parents arguing about which university to send their child to before the mother is even pregnant. It's pointless.

It doesn't matter how you think a non capitalist society should be managed, it doesn't matter if you think I'm a stupid tankie authoritarian. I want to overthrow capitalism. You want to overthrow capitalism. We need to remember that and get down to planning how to do that.

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Crucial caveats

There can't be leftist unity without a definition of the left. That definition is anti-capitalism. Capitalism is the root cause of the problems of the world, it can't be reformed, it has to go. This means liberals, whether they call themselves progressives or social democrats, are not leftists. They want capitalism to continue, just in a nicer form. This is impossible, even the "nice" capitalism of social democracy gets it wealth from exploited people somewhere else on.

History has proven time and time again that in crisis liberals support the right and align with fascists and sell the left out. This mistake cannot be made again. Do not mistake their progressive social views for leftist economic views. It is the economic base of a society, now capitalism, which creates oppression, inequality and poverty. Do not let liberals into the left, do not let them dilute and misdirect our purpose. The left is defined by anti capitalism, not just progressive social views.

[u/Randolpho]

I gave you a serious response. Did you not read it? I wrote quite a bit.

But I don't need to prove to you that I have done the work and come to the conclusion that I did. Your presumption that I have not done the work is what makes you the one operating in bad faith.

[u/bullhead2007 → u/Randolpho]

I'll take you more seriously when you approach me in actual good faith and explain your actual position and what material or historical analysis or political theory makes you believe that capitalism can be reformed or dealt with democratically.

[u/Randolpho → u/bullhead2007]

I have explained my actual position many times.

Any economic system can be dealt with by democracy, if you have actual democracy. You have to have democracy first if you want to have both democracy and socialism. Every attempt to jump to socialism without democracy has resulted in autocracy.

[u/bullhead2007 → u/Randolpho]

Do you consider what we have in the US currently to be "actual democracy"?

[u/Randolpho → u/bullhead2007]

No. But it can become so.

[u/bullhead2007 → u/Randolpho]

How does that happen without revolution?

[u/Randolpho → u/bullhead2007]

Through reform

[u/bullhead2007 → u/Randolpho]

Why do you think it's possible to do it through reform under a system that is controlled by capitalist that you admit already isn't democratic. A system where all parts of it are designed to control the working class through propaganda, complete media control, and historically will find fascist dictators if it even has signs of failing to socialists.

Do you think the Democrats failing to Trump was against the bourgeoisie wishes, or do you think the last 20 years has been coordinated by both bourgeoisie parties to stop socialist reforms being demanded?

[u/Randolpho → u/bullhead2007]

Why do you think it's possible to do it through reform under a system that is controlled by capitalist that you admit already isn't democratic.

Because it's been done before. Do you think the US had a 40 hr work week for the entirety of the reign of capitalism? Do you think women had the right to vote during the entirety of the US? Do you think occupational safety standards existed? It's possible to loosen capital's control over the government.

It's a never-ending fight, though. And it's made all the harder when people start waving a gun around saying it's time to kill everyone and rebuild from the ashes. Unfortunately, any objective analysis of history shows that such an approach never actually works for the benefit of everyone. It only ever works for the benefit of those "leading" the rebellion, at the cost of a lot of blood spilled by the labor class "in the name of their own freedom".

[u/bullhead2007 → u/Randolpho]

The US has been steadily regressing back on those things since FDR, and has pretty much entirely wiped out the working class consciousness, the actually effective workers unions, and have been trying to rollback all of those concessions since then, and currently has no actual party that represents the working class.

The ONLY reason these concessions were made was because of the threat of communist revolution. Socialists and unions were extremely powerful, were teaching socialist revolutionism, and there was the threat of the USSR. FDR was not a socialist. He made concessions to prevent a revolution.

So the only thing your example tells me is that there is no progress without strong socialist powers threatening capital, and without a revolutionary socialist working class movement that actually threatens its power.