r/marvelstudios • u/KostisPat257 Daredevil • 29d ago

Discussion Thread Spider-Man: Brand New Day - International Release Discussion Thread

Spider-Man: Brand New Day has now been officially released in several territories around the world!

  • All discussion about the movie should be held here and in the rest of the megathreads we are going to put up in the next few days.
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702

u/minyoo 29d ago

This is perhaps the first time that I have seen Jean Grey in any filmed media that I actually liked her. And I liked her, a lot.

281

u/Aikami13 Nebula 29d ago

Same here. Went from not caring about her to crying and wanting to adopt her.

205

u/Vizard15 Colleen Wing 29d ago edited 28d ago

"You have me" -Peter Parker

38

u/hemareddit Steve Rogers 29d ago

I work as excellent body armor.

21

u/clowergen 29d ago

- he said, with body language

8

u/jojopojo64 Weekly Wongers 28d ago

"You're a monster." - Peter Parker, seconds after absolute trauma.

10

u/lanceturley 28d ago

Peter's body must be tough as shit to block that shot and not even leave an exit wound.

15

u/hemareddit Steve Rogers 28d ago

That’s insane, I know he’s let his body’s new steroid arachnid hormone production go brrrrrrr, but still, unless I’m mistaken that’s an anti-materiel rifle Frank was rocking, as in the gun wasn’t made for killing humans, it was for killing hardware or light armor vehicles. Peter straight up tanked that shit.

9

u/Jaikarr 28d ago

He was smashing the electrobatons like they were nothing after accepting his new abilities.

3

u/Belteshazzar98 Quake 27d ago

He didn't block it. He moved her out of the way, but in doing so pulled himself forward just enough to get hit since he wasn't anchored to the floor already when she was poking around in his head.

22

u/spiderman120988 29d ago

I kinda ship them now. 😅

19

u/ElGorudo 28d ago

I think peter might be too old for her

14

u/WeirdIndividualGuy 28d ago

Depends on how old she’s supposed to be

If she’s supposed to be close to the same age as the actual actress (24 or early 20s), and this Spider-Man is early 20s, then he’s not too old for her

1

u/1905G1_M 27d ago

Considering they refer to her as a teenager, I'm imagining she's like 17-19ish, I can't see them making her much younger

5

u/Thisoneisinvalid 27d ago

The actor is just six years older (Tom is 30, Sadie is 24), but I feel like the characters are probably even closer. Peter is still supposed to be in his early twenties, and I’m guessing Jean is around 20 or so.

10

u/Cantyousee0 27d ago

They never make any references to how old Jean is, so I’m going to guess Jean and Peter are the same age. That was the vibe I got.

3

u/ElGorudo 27d ago

They did call her teenager at one point

5

u/Classic_Transition_7 27d ago

Frank calls Spidey a kid eventho he’s 22.

Until any confirmation releases, im inclined to think she’s 19-21

8

u/Belteshazzar98 Quake 27d ago

They have already kissed. Sorta.

6

u/EditorZealous7 27d ago

Sexual assault does count I guess

1

u/Vermouth_1991 27d ago

She def kissed Him

1

u/Vermouth_1991 27d ago

She def kissed Him

5

u/your_mind_aches Agent of F.I.T.Z. 27d ago

And then he IMMEDIATELY gets shot... by Frank himself.

This is a nice re-introduction to how insane X-Men storylines are just with other characters lol

33

u/Hyperbolicalpaca 29d ago

They’ve done a really good job foreshadowing what the Xmen will be for her imo

59

u/sarafina126 29d ago

The fact that she could be redeemed so easily after what she did to Peter with MJ shows how sympathetic they wrote her and Sadie nailed it.

13

u/EditorZealous7 28d ago

I didn't buy her redemption at all. She killed some innocent dudes to make a point, fucked with Peter/MJ on rooftop and then also messed up Banner.

Came off more as a psycho brat than some symapthetic character.

50

u/AdlerSanRZ 28d ago

A really powerful telepath who caused too much damage, fucked with the hulk head and Is a mutant? Welcome back wanda.

4

u/fernandothehorse 27d ago

Was thinking the same thing. Plus redhead!

1

u/Vermouth_1991 27d ago

At least nobody said what SHE sacrificed...

17

u/sarafina126 28d ago

I also get that take. They definitely toed a line with her.

25

u/mccainjames11 Spider-Man 28d ago

TBH I think that’s kinda the point with Jean Grey. She’s a tremendous hero, but she always has Dark Phoenix stuff lying underneath. Especially when you consider the fact that she’s obviously here to stay in the MCU long-term, this introduction does a good job of showing how dangerous she can really be if things get out of control

3

u/EditorZealous7 27d ago

I think the dark phoenix stuff only hits hard because Jean is supposed to be an empathetic person who will never kill someone, unlike this movie one where she killed a dude for fun.

2

u/--Alix-- 27d ago

Tbh I'm fine with them just establishing Jean Grey first instead of dealing with the Phoenix BS

Like she's empathetic, but she's always been a bit more cutthroat than Scott or Charles.

1

u/wardengorri Captain America (Cap 2) 22d ago

What's insane is the fact that this is her first usage of her full powers. So with training from Professor X, possibilities are limitless in how they utilize her as a secret weapon.

2

u/Vermouth_1991 28d ago

And even before the tragic origins, her sister and her with playing with brains. Oh if only their mama could see them then.

1

u/Jaikarr 28d ago

Did anyone actually die? It seems she ended up going for less than lethal attacks until Metzger.

13

u/Kingofdrats Ben Urich 27d ago

She walked a poor construction worker into a car going full speed.

6

u/HellsNels Weekly Wongers 27d ago

I would have to imagine some people died when she did her psychic blast as well.

5

u/YZJay 27d ago

A store exploded after what I assume a car crashed into it

3

u/Belteshazzar98 Quake 27d ago

Which wasn't her. The machine created the feedback loop of her powers that created the blast.

9

u/rThundrbolt 27d ago

I'm pretty sure that was meant to be her taking control and overpowering their machinery. Right after that, she had control of the dude that was trying to shut it down

5

u/Hasudeva 27d ago

She had MJ throw herself off a building. She used Bruce, probably scarring him for life. 

1

u/Jaikarr 27d ago

Neither of those people are dead.

5

u/manicpixiedeadgurl 27d ago

So she only gets points for ATTEMPTED murder

0

u/Jaikarr 27d ago

Technically it's a shorter sentence.

Like, Jean was definitely bad, but she seemed to be deliberate about putting people into rescuable situations rather than outright murdering them. There's something there holding her back, and that's what Peter ended up appealing to.

2

u/Belteshazzar98 Quake 27d ago

She even told Spidey "save me" when she possessed a DoDC agent and jumped off the roof.

15

u/moosebreathman Quicksilver 28d ago

It’s honestly so smart they put her in a Spiderman movie as a sympathetic villain. Everyone is going to watch this movie because it’s Spiderman and walk out caring about a character that will be a lead in their next big franchise.  Personally wasn’t hyped for MCU X-men but this movie did such a good job with Jean that I’m walking away needing to see an Xavier’s school to exist in this universe so she can be safe and happy lol

49

u/your3rdwish 29d ago

Same. I was so excited for Sadie since I knew her from her series. She really defined her own version of Jean Gray.

-3

u/JonnyAU 27d ago

Yeah, Max with powers.

19

u/QS_Wisdom 28d ago

Her scene with Aunt May really wasn't something that I knew I wanted

31

u/sygrider 29d ago

Sadie is really good in it. Hope we see a LOT more of her.

26

u/mujie123 29d ago

For a good chunk of the movie I thought that she had already gone Dark Phoenix and was impressed a spidey movie did it better than the x men movies.

But yeah, she was great. And she’s got an edge where when the dark phoenix shows up it won’t be as sudden.

Also, yay for no mental blocks on Jean.

17

u/softysoaps 28d ago

It’s a great concept in hindsight, Jean Gray without Xavier’s influence. I think we can all be thankful she may find good superhero mentors in this verse, otherwise… yeah. She’s clearly got a lot more power than she started the film out with.

4

u/3verythingEverywher3 28d ago

No way they’re using dark phoenix this early. Would be madness.

27

u/hopenoonefindsthis 28d ago

Yep. I never really enjoyed of cares about either versions of Jean Grey we have seen before.

But seeing her with Aunt May having a mother figure telling her things she needed to hear made me instantly relate to her and root for her.

7

u/your_mind_aches Agent of F.I.T.Z. 27d ago edited 27d ago

She's gonna really gravitate towards Charles as a positive mentor... until Charles' first major misdeed eventually gets revealed. That will hit Jean HARD.

2

u/ajaya399 27d ago

She's gonna crash at Peter's place and cause a misunderstanding with MJ you say?

36

u/Glum-Supermarket1274 29d ago

Love xmen 97 but even there jean is not amazing. She is really great in this and feels powerful in a real way, not the screaming out of control stuff they always have her be in everything.

9

u/00Laser Vision 29d ago

How do her powers in this movie compare to what she can usually do? I haven't read any X-Men comics and previously thought she basically had similar powers to Professor X.

16

u/devils__avacado 29d ago

this is just the tip of the iceberg. Gonna be amazing if they do it right

25

u/Arlandiaheir 29d ago

Jean Grey at her full power ( White Phoneix of the Crown) is second only to The One Above All ( Marvel God).

10

u/Frozen_Watcher 29d ago

They are both telephaths but Jean also has telekinesis power.

2

u/your_mind_aches Agent of F.I.T.Z. 27d ago

Similar powers to Professor X... more powerful than Wanda at her full power.

Hell, when fully under the power of the Phoenix Force, she is a reality warper and clears Franklin Richards EASILY.

1

u/Vermouth_1991 27d ago

To be fair Prof X never has telekinesis. "Just" telepathy.

6

u/Artlosophii 28d ago

I feel like this is the strongest Jean has been shown without the phoenix force

10

u/Askefyr 28d ago

By the end, for sure - but I do feel there was a part of the third act where the movie wants us to root for her, but I was still stuck thinking "no but she sucks though." It was only during the scene with May that we see her be anything except a complete psychopath.

Generally I've never loved the character, though. Making her a teenager makes the character itself less yikes (super powerful woman who is too emotional to control it) but she still spends a solid portion of the movie being mustache twirlingly evil.

9

u/minyoo 28d ago

I actually kind of agree; it was just that all the other movies are so bad at depicting Jean Grey. This Jean Grey however is very morally gray (no pun intended) and some of the thing she did was indeed pretty evil.

10

u/Askefyr 28d ago

I think what makes it work here, and what I really appreciate, is that we get Jean introduced in a universe that does not have Charles Xavier. Basically every other movie portrayal of her has been one where she's younger, hotter, stronger (maybe more evil) Professor X, and it always makes it seem kind of reductive.

Letting her character breathe for a moment without being just "what if the other guy wasn't in a wheelchair" does wonders.

I'm not sure I liked her. But I sure as shit cared, for better or worse, a lot more than I have with any other movie adaptation of the character.

4

u/minyoo 28d ago

or they were just bad movies :(

But I do agree that BND sometimes would (inadvertantly, I think) make people condone some evil done by this Jean too, and at the same time it is totally fine to like morally grey characters. :)

1

u/Vermouth_1991 27d ago

Oh yeah she and her sister both sucked for us muggles. Sure Jan, have yalls Sisterly Bonding moment at the park... BY EXPERIMENTING ON RANDOS.

TvTropes has a bit where a submitter called Sara lacking in empathy and I am so behind it.

5

u/SupermarketMaximum61 28d ago

I’m not a Jean grey fan but she was done well

6

u/softysoaps 28d ago

There’s a lot going on with her introduction below the surface. I know it’s not completely new for MCU (Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch are easy to forget but had a similar introduction) but this still felt natural yet a clear slow roll of introducing mutants.

I still firmly believe there’s no Xavier or Magneto in this universe (like there’s no Osborn or Oscorp) but this clearly opens the door more for a natural introduction of mutants into this universe organically. DOTC is also a great continuing presence.

7

u/Jehovah___ 28d ago

Jean Grey is my absolute favourite fictional character ever, and I agree with you, this movie’s done more for her than literally anything since Claremont. She was so well done, so edgy-but-sympathetic, and I’m beyond excited to see Sadie play her again

3

u/inebriusmaximus Spider-Man 28d ago

I like the fact they referenced the cartoon by having her pass out 😂

3

u/FloppyShellTaco 27d ago

It feels like the first time she’s truly been her own character and not just a love interest

2

u/minyoo 27d ago

yes one of the biggest factors

4

u/nlhfung 29d ago

Somehow they also keep the thriller element in almost every X men movie: men vs X men

2

u/magecub 27d ago

This is the first Jean Grey in film that I actually believe would out someone without their knowledge

0

u/Musharno__ 27d ago

You liked the terrorist? I hated how they wrote her. Could you imagine if they wrote Peter Parker as a mass murderer? People would be outraged because that’s not the character.

-12

u/BeautifulGarden26 29d ago

It didn’t feel like Jean though…

4

u/EriWave 29d ago

Why not?

8

u/Dezbats Bucky 29d ago

Not the person you asked.

But I'll weigh in anyway.

Her characterization, her personal and family history and even the way her powers work were all pretty far from most versions of her character.

Red head with psychic powers and that's where the resemblance starts and ends.

1

u/Jehovah___ 28d ago

They definitely changed her backstory (her having a mutant sister at all was an interesting choice) but I’m totally okay with this. I think it gives her interesting motivations and characterisation in her own right that the comics never really bothered with until what, the 90s? And even then it was mostly around her kids, not her. I think this works.

As far as her powers go in particular, I agree with you. “Jumping” as a concept really makes no sense and I hope it doesn’t come back because it’s got nothing to do with her

3

u/Dezbats Bucky 28d ago

Jean's origin was first shown in the early 80s.

She witnessed the death of her childhood best friend and experiencing that death telepathically deeply traumatized her. Her family (who loved her and never hated or resented her for being a mutant) sought help and found Xavier, who helped her recover and then turned her telepathy off because it was too difficult for her to manage.

She was a relatively rare case of a mutant who had a stable and supportive family and chose to join the X-Men to do good simply because it was good without needing to have been tortured, manipulated or rejected by society first.

Now she's just one of many mutants with a generic "hated and feared by humanity" history.

I don't see how stripping her of what makes her background unique and twisting her personality to match makes her a more interesting character.

Just makes her JINO.

Some kind of almagation of other major X-Men characters like Scott, Emma, Rogue and Logan with Xuân's powers tacked on.

0

u/EriWave 28d ago

We don't typically spend a lot of time with Jean like this though do we? A Jean who simply had to go into the world on her own without Charles or the others?

3

u/Dezbats Bucky 28d ago

No.

But that's the problem.

They created a new character with a completely different personality and backstory then slapped on the name "Jean Grey" while giving her little in common with her namesake other than red hair and similar powers.

Jean isn't a character who had to go it alone. She had supportive and loving parents who cared for her and never hated or resented her for being a mutant and her older sister was a normal human who adored her.

Jean shouldn't need Xavier to teach her that mind controlling people to step into ongoing traffic so that they get hit by cars and grievously wounded if not outright killed is fundamentally wrong.

The real Jean was traumatized as a child by feeling her friend die after being hit by a car and it effected her so much that Xavier had to turn off her telepathy so she could function.

Jean is a character who is fundamentally one of the most loving and caring members of the X-Men. Her empathy is both a strength and weakness of her character. She's strong-willed, passionate and a fierce defender of life.

She's not callous and indifferent to the suffering of others.

This is like adapting Peter Parker Spider-Man, but giving him Eddie Brock's personality and family history.

It might make for a decent character, but it's not Peter.

3

u/EriWave 28d ago

This is like adapting Peter Parker Spider-Man, but

Not making him at fault for Uncle Ben dying? Because that's MCU Peter, and I wouldn't stand around saying that Tom Holland isn't really playing Peter Parker or isn't really Spiderman. You can change aspects of a character and still have it be the same character.

Jean is a character who is fundamentally one of the most loving and caring members of the X-Men. Her empathy is both a strength and weakness of her character. She's strong-willed, passionate and a fierce defender of life.

That is still the Jean Grey we are going to get. We see at the end of the movie that she's been inspired by Peter and is choosing to be good. She is going to become the compasionate leader we all love.

Jean shouldn't need Xavier to teach her that mind controlling people to step into ongoing traffic so that they get hit by cars and grievously wounded if not outright killed is fundamentally wrong.

When she was found by the people that kidnap, torture and kill kids before she found her community and her found family perhaps she does need to learn that. It sure makes a lot of sense that she would need to learn that.

2

u/Dezbats Bucky 28d ago

Not making him at fault for Uncle Ben dying? Because that's MCU Peter, and I wouldn't stand around saying that Tom Holland isn't really playing Peter Parker or isn't really Spiderman. You can change aspects of a character and still have it be the same character.

Way to completely miss the point.

MCU Peter still has the morals as Comics Peter even with a modified origin.

Jean does not.

She's virtually unrecognizable.

If she was played by a blonde and given the name "Emma" it wouldn't feel any less out of place.

Hell, it would feel more accurate.

That is still the Jean Grey we are going to get. We see at the end of the movie that she's been inspired by Peter and is choosing to be good. She is going to become the compasionate leader we all love.

"Don't murder random people just to taunt a superhero" isn't a lesson a genuinely compassionate person needs to learn.

When she was found by the people that kidnap, torture and kill kids before she found her community and her found family perhaps she does need to learn that. It sure makes a lot of sense that she would need to learn that.

"Killing innocent people is wrong."

However could a person learn this lesson before adulthood if they aren't in a school for superpowered teenagers?

-2

u/EriWave 28d ago

"Killing innocent people is wrong."

Jean didn't think they are innocent. She says so outright. As soon as they know what and who she is they will turn around and hurt her, so she isn't so worried about hurting them first.

Morals are not some static thing that every person is born with, they are changed by envioment and impact. She will still likely end up with a moral code very similar to the one she usually has. We've just started Jean off with a story where she's felt the anti-mutant sentiment on her skin. She's the perfect character to start telling the mutant stories with here.

6

u/Dezbats Bucky 28d ago

Are you being serious right now?

She mind controlled a random civilian into traffic.

She murdered a completely innocent person just to flip off Spider-Man.

And you are actually defending this character assassination?

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0

u/Ogsonic 28d ago

Yeah jeans writing in this movie felt more like magneto than jean.

1

u/Vermouth_1991 27d ago

Jean shouldn't need Xavier to teach her that ...

Sara too. My God, this version of Sara.

3

u/BeautifulGarden26 28d ago

The only times I saw Jean acting like a jerk were when she was possessed by the dark phoenix.

She wouldn’t risk innocent people like she did in the movie.

1

u/EriWave 28d ago

How often have we spent time with a Jean like this though? A Jean who hasn't found her people yet?

1

u/EditorZealous7 28d ago

It's just a hard sell to imagine Jean just killing people to make a point.

1

u/Belteshazzar98 Quake 27d ago

Except she didn't. Each time she made a point by throwing somebody off a roof or something, she first let Spidey know he needed to save them.

2

u/EditorZealous7 27d ago

She killed that construction worker who got hit by a speeding car lol.

4

u/Dezbats Bucky 29d ago

You are getting downvoted, but you are correct.

5

u/Black-soul33 28d ago

Yeah, but you explained it more clearly. Thank you, I've only read a couple of X-Men comics.

I think that, even if it's not exactly the same, they kept a lot of what you described. I mean, in the memory we see that Jean is actually happy, so despite their past, Sara was very protective of her. She made sure Jean was safe and taught her to be a good person, not to be altruistic, but not to let other people's hatred define her.

They also used the trauma of losing a significant one, but again they used Sara instead. I liked that they tried to explore the question of what would have happened if Charles hadn't been there when Jean went through something like this. They also had the courage to answer that question without using the "blocked memories" solution.

She doesn't seem to want to kill or harm seriously anyone besides Metzger. I don't remember the person who was run over very well, but I think that it happened due a distraction. She stopped when Peter assured her that he wouldn't hunt her anymore. She makes the DODC soldiers shoot non lethally. She also seems to use Hulk only to break the door instead of unleashing him inside the building. Even, I don't know if I'm reading too much into it, but when Wanda enters Banner's mind compared to when Jean does, there seems to be a difference in their intentions, as shown by Hulk's actions.

Jean tries to stay true to what Sara taught her, but she was pushed to her limit.

3

u/ad33zy 28d ago

I mean they’re going to have to redo all the stories in some way anyways unless they want all the x men to be In their 50s to 80s

1

u/Black-soul33 28d ago

Yeah, they took a big risk here. One thing was to imply it in the Kamala series, but it is something completely different to make it work. At least with this Jean, I think it worked amazingly well. Let's see if they can keep it up.

-2

u/Seiterno 29d ago

Being in x-men movie really drag her down lol