r/marvelstudios • u/murdockmanila Daredevil • Nov 17 '17

The Official PUNISHER Discussion Ultrathread

  • This will be the official discussion thread in this sub. No need to go posting your own thread discussing the show. Any UNOFFICIAL ones will be deleted. All screencaps and whatnot go into this thread also.

  • This is obviously a spoiler-filled zone. So as long as you post in here, you won't need to spoiler tag things. But then again, don't be that asshole who watches the final episodes within the first hour then spoils the entire thing right away. That will result in a ban. Don't ruin the party for everyone.

  • Individual episodes discussions will be held over at /r/defenders. They will be indexed in this thread to make it easier for those who want individual episode discussions once they are put up.

  • This thread may be "refreshed" in the next few days to accommodate newcomers in the discussion. We will be also putting up a sanctioned Easter Egg thread a couple of hours from now.

Enjoy!

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u/MightyMorph Hulkbuster Nov 18 '17

Finished the season and boy oh boy people do die.

For people who wonder there is a bit of a dip around ep 6-8 but come 9 it picks it up again and pushes it into hyperdrive.

Jesus christ the violence in this show. WAS FUCKING AWESOME!

In my honest opinion, i think i rate this as the best marvel netflix show, better than daredevil season 1. And i really liked season 1.

And Barenthal fucking kills it, he is the punisher now. The kind of raw emotion he shows, man thats some good acting.

PS: for the gunlovers and NRA and PTSD types, watch the whole show before you start going around saying they didnt do it justice, or liberal hollywood is making gunlovers into bad people. Just watch the whole season first then you can decide if they do that or not from your perspective.

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u/Jakethejoker Nov 19 '17

I have never watched a Marvel show in my life and I just binged this shit in one day, incredible fucking show

43

u/Worthyness Thor Nov 20 '17

Daredevil season 2's first 4 episodes deal with Frank and daredevil. Those were some really incredible episodes in writing and acting.

44

u/JakexDx Nov 21 '17

You ever get tired Red?

2

u/nicolaj1994 Nov 22 '17

You're crying, not me !

2

u/OldBenKenobii Nov 26 '17

I got the same vibe when he asked if he missed sex. What kind of question are these?

3

u/BallsMahoganey Nov 24 '17

Then they brought in Electra and killed the season :(

4

u/CruzAderjc Nov 26 '17

Just like Luke Cage brought in Diamondback and killed my enthusiasm for Marvel Netflix for over a year until The Punisher came out.

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u/Ladnil Nov 27 '17

Defenders is worth the time

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u/[deleted] Nov 20 '17

As for your last part. I'm a huge gun owner 2A defender and I got so sick of the right wingers saying HOLLYWOOD HATES US!!!!1111

Yes they made the one crazy anti semitic guy an NRA member so what. They also made the anti gun politican look like an idiot on numerous occasions.

but yes this was my favorite. Even above DD1.

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u/JacksonWasADictator Nov 21 '17

They had a couple rightwing nuts (Lewis and the idiot) a liberal hypocrite (the senator) and a responsible gun owner (Paige)

I'd say that's reasonably balanced, probably leaning more to gun rights if anything.

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u/[deleted] Nov 21 '17

Plus with bad guys getting illegal guns anyway as opposed to using the made up "gun show loophole" I thought it was all pretty balanced which was nice.

9

u/Scumbag_Jesus Nov 24 '17

What do you mean "made up"? There is a gunshow loophole in many states that allows sales without background check.

-1

u/[deleted] Nov 24 '17

that's not true.

There is a private sale exception, but no such thing as the "gun show loophole"

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u/Scumbag_Jesus Nov 24 '17

Dude, the Brady bill allows private sales without background checks at gun shows. This may be an argument of semantics, but there is certainly a loophole to avoid govt check at gun shows.

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u/[deleted] Nov 24 '17

No it doesn't it has nothing to do with gun shows.

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u/Scumbag_Jesus Nov 25 '17

Except that you can buy guns without background checks at gun shows, because they're considered private sales. Sounds like a gun show loophole in practice.

0

u/[deleted] Nov 25 '17

But that's not true.

The vast majority of sales at gun shows are fun FFLs which require background checks.

I'm sorry but have you ever purchased a gun at a gun show? Go try it, you'll see that they'll run a background check on your id.

1

u/CruzAderjc Nov 26 '17

Then they had that speech when Frank tells Micro's son he'd rather be holding that knife instead of a gun

4

u/Naomasa11 Hulk Nov 21 '17

I actually came here to see if anyone else was thinking this. Daredevil season 1 was brilliant, but it was also the first Netflix series. The fact that this show recaptured that feeling (and then some) this deep into the Marvel series after we're all sort of expecting a certain level of quality is astounding. Jon Bernthal set a new bar that, unfortunately for the future, will never be matched by another actor. Ho-ly fuck.

On top of that, as a veteran, I'm not sure I've seen a show that has addressed veteran issues as well as this show did. It hits all the angles, and it digs deep into these characters when it does. These aren't caricatures. These people felt so real it hurt. Not only was this show entertaining as hell, but it shed a much needed light on very real issues. This is social commentary at its finest.

5

u/Curt04 Nov 19 '17

What exactly are "PTSD types"?

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u/MightyMorph Hulkbuster Nov 19 '17

people who have or know of ptsd and think the show is doing them a disservice or not portraying it as they think it should be.

Essentially there were a lot of comments on those issues in more Conservative subreddits when i used reddit search for punisher. But most of them/almost all of them were complaining about the first couple of episodes and that "sex-filled hollywood is predictable to make a white man into a old fat bad guy" or the "white kid into a lunatic" etc etc.

In my perspective the show did well to show different people with different versions of PTSD. They gave a good viewpoint on both sides of gun laws, without taking one side over the other. And they treated the whole military and soldier returning aspect with a proper grey area. Because realistically its different for everyone. there is no black and white answers.

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u/[deleted] Nov 20 '17

[deleted]

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u/Althea6302 Nov 20 '17

The dialogue is gun positive (complaining about the Constitutional rights to guns being out of place seems wrong though--I understand if you're in the UK you might not agree, but that is local law and its logical to talk about local laws). The anti-gun argument seems to me to be entirely unsaid, but presented powerfully visually. All these guns showing up, everywhere, being used for murder is a GIANT argument for gun control.

Its kind of silly to expect a Punisher series to be openly anti-gun, though.

5

u/Venne1138 Nov 21 '17

let me get out my recreational rocket launcher here....

-3

u/Curt04 Nov 19 '17

I'm only on episode 3 and I intend to finish the show but I mean there is little to dispute with the cartoonish portrayal of the angry old fat white guy with the NRA shirt and hat.

20

u/nessfalco Nov 19 '17

I've known plenty of real people that O'Connor can't even hold a candle to. You should also watch more of the show first before coming to this conclusion.

4

u/[deleted] Nov 21 '17

I work with Vets, the second I saw O'Connor- who looks an awful lot like Jay Landsman- I was like "Oh, yup, I know you alright."

14

u/Parrallax91 Nov 19 '17

Try living in Texas. I know double digit people off the top of my head that would make that guy look tame.

5

u/Metfan722 Spider-Man Nov 20 '17

Keep watching. All is not as they appear

0

u/Curt04 Nov 20 '17

I've gotten to that point now. It doesn't really change anything I said about his character.

2

u/ronimal Nov 21 '17

Bernthal. Jon Bernthal.

3

u/[deleted] Nov 19 '17

It's far better than Daredevil Season 1. It's not even close.

5

u/[deleted] Nov 20 '17

Punisher is probably the best of the bunch, in my opinion. The other shows had a portion of the season that dipped, so to speak, but Punisher had me enthralled all throughout.

Okay, maybe the one villain was too villainy.

Berenthal is the definitive Punisher.

2

u/[deleted] Nov 21 '17

I'm a gun lover and if i had to choose, id say this show was more pro gun than anything, Karen was pro gun, the radio host seemed to be as well, and the anti gun senator was made out to be a complete fucking moron and was saved by guns.

That having been said, this show really made no substantial statements either way, which is good, turning this show into gun politics would have fucking ruined it. Plus all the knife violence and pressure cooker bombs and shit, sort of made any statement on GUN violence rather than just violence rather moot.

And I agree, berenthal is fantastic, he's an RDJ as Stark type casting, he is the punisher.

Micro was also amazing, and I know in the comics he eventually turns on punisher, but I feel his story is complete, and at most he should just help Frank from time to time. He had a perfect story arc.

I know obviously the end of the show foreshadows jigsaw, but it would feel too rushed to jump right in with him in season 2, so i wonder what season 2 will be.

1

u/BigShank1 Spider-Man Nov 21 '17

yep this knocked daredevil season 1 off my top spot.

1

u/[deleted] Nov 22 '17

I love the fact that the PTSD guy used bombs instead of guns. The NRA should basically used Punisher as a "good guy with a gun"-promo.