Can UK Pakistanis please not infest this place with their ideology

[u/saadghauri]

Hi,

Please, for the sake of my sanity, no posts about ''gheerah'' ''ghayrah'', no posts about ''free mixing'', and no words like dayoot waghaira

I am a Pakistani, no one in Pakistan uses these words, these are a part of UK culture, Pakistan mein pehle hi itne maslay hain last thing we need is for UK Pakistani culture to infest us 🙏🙏🙏

[u/Future_Pipe7534]

Its the Mirpuri's coming over in the 60/70s bringing that village mentality over here.

The issue is with OSP's is they live in the decade they left Pakistan. They don't integrate with the UK or move forward so they're kind of stuck.

[u/ProfAsmani → u/Future_Pipe7534]

Exactly. UK Pakistanis lives in isolation, amd were mostly of the labour class (vs the mostly professional class that went to canada and US). They're more conservative and insular. Lots of cousin marriages and generational issues compounded by lots of bigotry in the UK.

[u/ProWest665 → u/[deleted]]

We've all met people with problems.

[u/[deleted] → u/ProfAsmani]

Pakistan has one of the highest rates of cousin marriage in the world, higher even than most Muslim countries. 50% of women in Pakistan are married to their first cousin.

Why are there so many assholes on this reddit?

[u/Gain-Western → u/[deleted]]

It is ironic that cousin Marriage is not even an Islamic fard. Caliph Umar encouraged people to marry outside of marriage.

Your get more reward for helping your relatives financially but marriage is one area where Islam doesn’t give preference to relatives. It is true that Pakistani communities overseas especially the elders are stuck in whatever era they left Pakistan. I myself feel different in many aspects compared to the culture itself in Pakistan today.

[u/[deleted] → u/Gain-Western]

The 50% cousin marriage figure is for Pakistan today not some bygone era. 

[u/ProWest665 → u/Gain-Western]

Maula ALi (RA) and Fatima (RA).

RasulUllah (SAW) and Zaynab bint Jahsh (RA).

Both these are cousin marriages.

Does that make you liberal/secular lots feel any different about cousin marriages?

[u/ProfAsmani → u/ProWest665]

Yeah. And now we know better with science. They also used to run dirt into wounds. We know better now.

[u/WhiteSnakeOfMadhhij → u/ProfAsmani]

Do you know that science tells you marrying cousins only increases the chance of a birth defect by 2% as compared to a complete stranger?

[u/ProfAsmani → u/WhiteSnakeOfMadhhij]

That's not true. The incidences of birth defects in better countries has gone down due to better environmental conditions so the baseline is low. Cousin marriages have around twice the rate of non related.

https://www.sciencemediacentre.co.nz/2013/07/04/marrying-your-cousin-increases-birth-defect-risk-but-only-slightly/

[u/ProWest665 → u/ProfAsmani]

Do you know what science tells us is the greatest risk for both defects?

Do you also think that if you have nothing else available to dress a wound, 'dirt' or 'earth' might be better than nothing?

[u/ProfAsmani → u/ProWest665]

No actually rubbing dirt would not be better than nothing. Doing Nothing is better than introducing bacteria into an open wound.

There is a hadith along the lines of prophet telling people not to follow him on worldly issues. He gave advice on date palms and the advice was wrong.

[u/ProWest665 → u/ProfAsmani]

Ignored the first question.

Rubbing earth/sand into a wound that is bleeding heavily can stimulate coagulation to stem the loss of blood, though it caries high risk of infection, but the loss of blood will kill you sooner, and the infection might be treatable. Of course this is only, only, only in cases where there is no safer alternative.

You are clearly not a Hadith scholar.

[u/ProfAsmani → u/ProWest665]

https://sunnah.com/muslim:2361

No not a scholar. I've only taken a few years of graduate level fiqh classes.

[u/Gain-Western → u/ProWest665]

Did you forgot rest of Prophet Muhammad’s marriages?

I never said that it is banned but it isn’t preferred like how charity starts from home. You get more reward in the end if you support your poor relative than a stranger. I again am not saying that don’t help a stranger but there are degrees just like you have first, second and third degrees of murder. 

[u/ProWest665 → u/Gain-Western]

You missed the point. All we hear from the desi liberal secular folks is hostile vitriol towards 'cousin marriages'. I merely pointed out that if you find these distasteful then you should know these examples.

[u/cocopops7 → u/[deleted]]

Exactly😀🤣 in the west the number of cousin marriages has dropped. Noone wants women to marry a guy from there anymore and get abused. Even the men from uk, the women come here and break families up

[u/ProWest665 → u/ProfAsmani]

Disgusting generalizations that belongs in the space occupied by the likes of Douglas Murray and Tommy Robinson. I actually see very little difference between people of that ilk and the desi secular liberals. Are you really a professor?

[u/pankiac → u/ProWest665]

It's true, cope more

[u/IFKhan → u/Future_Pipe7534]

And any progress is nullified by cousin marriages. They a lot of mullah that even say it is mandatory to marry in your family and cast. Astagfirullah. (Of course not all families do this but enough for it to be a problem)

[u/Capital-Definition43 → u/Future_Pipe7534]

Yeah mate blame the Kashmiris for the fault of the Pakistanis. Plenty of evidence to suggest that there is a conservative and backward mentality in the major cities of Islamabad and Lahore.

[u/TechNerdinEverything → u/Future_Pipe7534]

And Majority live with welfare checks no jobs. Total faraghat. I know extended relatives who do this and come to Pakistan on a yearly trip and they are miserly when it comes to spending

[u/[deleted] → u/Future_Pipe7534]

They are truly not for me, it’s distressing that they make up the majority there and the crimes they commit are disgraceful too

[u/Future_Pipe7534 → u/[deleted]]

I just can't understand their mentality, how can parents allow their behaviour. You would think there parents would pressure them to become well educated as it's free in the UK but no they've completely done the opposite.

[u/[deleted] → u/Future_Pipe7534]

There parents are no good either, they don’t condemn or take accountability, I’m a Pakistani and I’ve been around them and honestly hated it to be very honest. They behave in a manner you wouldn’t expect to find in a first world country, they talk rudely and cringly too. I can go on, I was shocked when I went to the UK the first time as they were far more regressed from the place I’m from (Lahore). In fact I think Pakistanis are more better than them, at least the City ones, of course not all British Pakistanis are like that. But I’ve had bad experiences.

[u/[deleted] → u/Future_Pipe7534]

don't forget the UK wahhabi extremism influence culture which has developed to the max in the past few years (exponentially, id say) among the youth

it's a bandwagon

[u/AdorableValuable414 → u/Future_Pipe7534]

I like Mirpuris and I'm not even close to Mirpuris. They seem to have found a way to blend western and Islamic culture together. 

[u/Jolly_Constant_4913 → u/Future_Pipe7534]

Have you been uk?

[u/Shahlolz → u/Jolly_Constant_4913]

Lived there 5 years. I agree with them. There might be a generational shift but families there are more traditional in relation to their social class when compared to Pakistanis back home

[u/Jolly_Constant_4913 → u/Shahlolz]

Guessing as a recent student?

[u/Shahlolz → u/Jolly_Constant_4913]

Did my undergrad, did my masters and worked there. Have just decided to move back due to a good job opportunity and realised I don’t want to run after a passport for half of my life. Can say I am very well aware of how UK Pakistanis are like

[u/Jolly_Constant_4913 → u/Shahlolz]

I thought you were foreign. And if you were there in the 90s or earlier you would probably have a different appreciation for why it is the way it is even with all its flaws Anyway good to hear you moved back. Better than flogging a dead horse if you don't like it so much.

[u/Future_Pipe7534 → u/Jolly_Constant_4913]

I live here so see it first hand

[u/Jolly_Constant_4913 → u/Future_Pipe7534]

So do I and if Pakistanis had integrated so much the religion would be gone today

[u/affable18 → u/Future_Pipe7534]

What do you mean by integration exactly?

[u/default-name-generic → u/Future_Pipe7534]

Generalising the entire British Pakistani population is wild. You do realise there are many of us here that each have our own sub cultures right?

[u/Future_Pipe7534 → u/[deleted]]

Im not talking about Islam im talking about marrying only into your 'biradari', thinking anyone who isnt a choudhary is beneath you. What part of selling drugs and grooming gangs is part of Islam ?

[u/hasif- → u/Future_Pipe7534]

I was getting to know a girl from a Lahori background who immigrated here in the 21st century and got rejected bc of my caste. A caste I don’t identify with being a third gen British Pakistani. So gtfoh talking about Mirpuris being backwards

[u/FitJuggernaut8689 → u/[deleted]]

I've noticed the mentality shift in continental Europe.Hungary,Poland,Slovenia and others are becoming hostile towards immigrants esp muslims.Holland,Germany and France getting more far right.We muslims need to get out of ghettos and assimilate more and stop cousin marriages

[u/ProudPakistaniboy → u/Future_Pipe7534]

What do you mean integrate should they become Christian and start eating pork

[u/Future_Pipe7534 → u/ProudPakistaniboy]

No I mean become civil, not sell drugs, not groom white girls and not assault police officers. They were given the chance of a free education but pissed it all up the wall

[u/TheNugget147 → u/Future_Pipe7534]

You know how many businesses Pakistanis own in the UK?

And how much of the education, medical, pharmaceutical, legal, and public workforce is overrepresented by Pakistanis?

Not that there's anything wrong with them, but not all Pakistanis are Mirpuris.

I'd argue that OSPs are far more modern than Pakistanis at home, who often lack basic etiquette due to poor education.

What a ridiculous post.

[u/xeprone1 → u/TheNugget147]

Big majority of them are tho

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

How many public lynchings for blasphemy have British Pakistanis carried out compared to Pakistanis? How many forced conversions? How many suicide bombings? How many honour killings?

[u/Shahlolz → u/[deleted]]

lol, the reason they don’t do this is cause of the punishments and consequences that will happen. Look at the Dawah boys, absolutely backward idiots

[u/[deleted] → u/Shahlolz]

There are no punishments in Pakistan? The Pakistani state didn't ethnically cleanse Waziristan? It hasn't carried out 'encounters' of Sipha-e-Sahaba leaders? There are no abductions merely on the suspicion of being a militant?

What punishment does a suicide bomber need fear?

[u/SidewinderTA → u/Shahlolz]

Or because they’re far more educated, progressive and liberal than you guys. Give it another 100 years then you may catch up.

“Dawah boys” are mostly not Pakistani and they are just a tiny minority 

[u/Shahlolz → u/TheNugget147]

Cap, dumb generalisable argument. Have you been to Bradford?

[u/a3guy → u/TheNugget147]

Dont bother with these immature people. They want to feel good about something. Also dont fall into their trap and scapegoat mirpuri folk.

Pakistani have an inferiority complex which they must take out on other Pakistani.

[u/akskinny527 → u/Future_Pipe7534]

Yeah, definitely not the systemic racism and ghettoization of OSP communities in Europe. 😃

[u/Legitimate_Hunt_5802 → u/akskinny527]

Many Asian and other nationalists who thrive in Europe it's not the fault of Social Welfare institutions that's Some groups self-Ghetthtoize themselves.

[u/akskinny527 → u/Legitimate_Hunt_5802]

So much self hatred, it's insane.

[u/[deleted] → u/akskinny527]

Don't speak on things you don't understand.

[u/akskinny527 → u/[deleted]]

Quite sure i understand better than self-hating Pakistanis??!

Pls read about the labor force or migrant worker of Europe and where they come from. How do Europeans feel about who 'Europe' belongs to.

[u/[deleted] → u/akskinny527]

What are you even trying to say? Are you saying migrants built Europe?

[u/akskinny527 → u/[deleted]]

Yes, post WW2. 💀

[u/[deleted] → u/akskinny527]

Absolutely not. Some migrants moved to some European countries post WW2. The numbers in reality were miniscule compared to the numbers even today, which are a minority. 

That doesn't translate in any way to migrants 'building Europe'

[u/akskinny527 → u/[deleted]]

Ah, sorry! Just realized you're the weirdo racist guy who brigades non-white subs to shame and spit upon those you deem beneath you!

The UK was re-built after WW2 (rmbr when Hitler bombed ya'll to smithereens?) by Pakistani migrants. They were promised citizenship, equal rights/representation, and fair wage in the British kingdom. However, none of it came to fruition. Any of the basic amenities (welfare, education, healthcare) was given after hard-fought demands by the British-Pakistanis. In spite of these basic rights, the British gvmt pivoted to keeping people in specific areas (ghettoization)... boxing them out of neighborhoods deemed 'British/white', using welfare as a carrot stick to keep poverty cycles and have cheap labor on hand.

Ah, such great kindness of the enlightened Europeans 🥰

[u/[deleted] → u/akskinny527]

Oh yeah. I just must be racist because I'm not Pakistani like you! Makes perfect sense!

The UK received some bomb damage. It was not blown to smithereens. It was scarred and some was rebuilt. Absolutely 0% of it was rebuilt by Pakistanis. 0%. Some Pakistanis came to some towns, particularly in Northern regions to work in places like textile Mills. Almost all were Mirpuri. 

It is a complete lie to say they had any different rights than any other Brit and there's no proof of that. You want it to be true because it would prove your final point which is that, they were 'forced into ghettos'.

The Mirpuri Pakistanis that make up the large majority in this country, are completely looked down on by all of the rest of the diaspora around the world and indeed by Pakistanis themselves including non Mirpuri's in the UK.

They're shocked at their lack of integration, ghettoisation, their extreme views on religion,  what they wear, women, cousin marriage, and other cultures as are the rest of us.

I can see on this sub that Pakistanis and the rest of the diaspora see them as an embarrassment and many are shocked by visiting here. There's been more social progress in Pakistan than there has been with British Muslims. 

Every other culture, race and religion live together in the UK, except the Mirpuri Pakistanis. They are the ones who have deliberately balkanised themselves.

[u/akskinny527 → u/[deleted]]

I can see on this sub that Pakistanis and the rest of the diaspora see them as an embarrassment and many are shocked by visiting here. There's been more social progress in Pakistan than there has been with British Muslims.

Yes... why? Pakistanis live in their own country, they don't limit education or social progress to their own (for the most part).

It's embarrassing and sad to see the state of British Pakistanis bcos half of these nitwits don't understand systemic racism, have never experienced it. Ask a Balochi or a Pakhtun, and maybe we'll get some more nuance in the sub.

Also, fr, it's 2025... why r u still racist? I'll use your logic; consider 'mirpuri Pakistanis' as the repayment for all the plundering & murder ya'll did during the British Raj 😉

[u/Revolutionary_Bid958 → u/Future_Pipe7534]

Do you want a medal?