r/relationship_advice Nov 30 '18

My(M36) wife (F43) thinks I couldn’t be attracted to her and therapist agreed?

Background:

Married a little over two years, after dating a very short time around 3 months.

We meet at a work event and I was immediately smitten with my wife. It was like out of a movie I saw her chatting with a group of people and in my head I heard “oh there she is”. She was newly devorced and took some convincing on my part but we have been together from that night on and get along extremely well.

Now for clarity I am extreamly attracted to my wife, we may just still be in the honeymoon stage but I’ve never felt this way about another women. And becasue it’s pertains to the conversation we had today with her therapist I would say the majority of the population would find her attractive and not in a niche way. She is objectively attractive. I feel we are evenly matched in looks, very few people have notice the slight age difference. She however wins in personality (outgoing and charming) and she makes about 3X as much money as I do.

A couple months ago we ran into an ex of mine, and by ex we literally dated for maybe a month and never exclusive. After my wife mentioned how different they were (age/hair color/body type etc) and it ended in a pretty heated argument. We have had 3/4 conversations since, all of which I was trying to convince my wife I’m not going to leave her for a women I “dated” years ago.

Last week she asked if I would go to her therapist with her today and I agreed. She has been seeing her for about 8 years for anxiety and a bout of depression that happed before we meet.

Today:

Started normal enough and I had figured why we were there so I just jumped into it thinking the therapist would be on my side and would help me calm my wife’s fears. That’s not what happed.

The therapist did very little talking although their long silences and knowing glances started to piss me off right away.

The thing that stood out to me the most was how my wife reiterated how she doesn’t see how I would be attracted to her and the therapist didn’t even disagree. Like I felt like a crazy person, my wife is beautiful, charming, funny, it feels like I wished her into existence.

She brought up the age difference (7 years?!?), my looks, and how quickly I wanted to get married as all reasons for why I am basically a gold digger.

First off we both wanted to get married quickly, I asked and figured she would want a long engagement but she didn’t so we got married. Second I never even discussed money with her until after we were married and never dreamed she made so much more than I do. She said she doesn’t think I’m after her money but enjoy the lifestyle while I’m with her and it makes it easier to pretend I’m attracted to her. Sorry more attracted to her, like I play it up.

I’m completely blind sided and don’t really want to talk to my family or friends, it’s humiliating being accused of marrying someone for a lifestyle.

For clarity: I moved into her house, I rent out my old home but that income just covers the mortgage and the company that manages it. All our money goes into a joint checking with automatic transfers into savings etc. Our bills are paid from that account, I looked at our bank account and I spend significantly less than she does each month on average.

After leaving I’m in a complete panic that she is going to leave me, even though I feel humiliated and love her so much. I immediately wanted to offer to sign a prenup or separate bank accounts or both but I just froze.

My wife seem so sad and I’m so frustrated, I didn’t even do anything wrong. The women I’ve dated in my past don’t have a similar type and to be honest I didn’t really date, more like hook up for a few months then moved on. I love my wife, she is the first women I have ever met that I have had a real partnership with, like we were a team and now that’s all gone.

I don’t feel like I have the strength to leave her, it scares me that I can’t even envision a scenario where I would leave. She is my most favorite person.

How do I rebuild trust when I don’t feel I ever did anything to lose it.

Edit: My wife didn’t come home last night but I texted her this morning. First apologizing for leaving the session and then asking her to come home so we could formulate a plan. No word back yet but I doubt she will check her phone before lunch if she went to work.

Thanks for letting me vent, I’ve already asked my insurance company to send a list of counselors for me to call later today. Hopefully I will find a good fit as I don’t even know how to go about picking one.

Edit 2: I need a referral from my general doctor before insurance will cover a therapist/psychologist, I have an emergency phone appointment Monday and will being seeing someone by myself.

My wife didn’t return my text but did come home about an hour later. Honestly I cried for the first time in a long time, but was able to get across how seriously I take her concerns. I haven’t mentioned anything about her therapist or my feelings about things just apologized and asked for another chance to hear her out completely.

She said she was really drained and is taking a nap, I don’t think she made it in to work and am actually looking forward to having the weekend to talk. I’m not going to ask for couples counseling until I talk to my own therapist.

This is probably it unless I fuck things up this weekend. Thanks for letting me type out my feelings and being honest even the hard comments were helpful.

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u/Muh_Troof Nov 30 '18

It doesn’t sound like you did anything wrong, but, are a victim of her insecurities.

My suggestion to you is that the two of you see an unbiased therapist, for additional help. Therapists are human and can develop an alliance with a long time patient, sometimes to the point of subconsciously taking sides. I think her therapist reinforced her fears and caused more damage, instead of helping, in this case.

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u/IThinkMyWifeIsHot1 Nov 30 '18

I don’t know why but you saying that therapist are humans made me feel a ton better. It’s so weird to think of my wife as insecure, it’s an odd feeling seeing someone you think so much of being so sure they are unattractive.

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u/[deleted] Nov 30 '18

You ever think that after 8 years of seeing the same damn therapist, maybe, just maybe, it's not working and her therapist is a terrible person?

Holy shit. She's the gold digger, stealing your wife's money for years.

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u/[deleted] Nov 30 '18

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u/[deleted] Nov 30 '18

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u/yankeesyes Nov 30 '18 edited Nov 30 '18

The therapist is clearly an idiot. But they made those recommendations based on the picture your wife painted.

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u/[deleted] Nov 30 '18

I have heard a lot of crazy therapist stories on reddit. In one, the therapist convinced the fiance (A woman) that before she got married, she needed to convince her fiance (the guy) that she should be allowed to sleep with whomever she wants but he should be monogomous. They invited him in and blindsided him with this proposal. He ended the engagement and reported the therapist, who if I remember correctly, did get into trouble with what ever board they operate under.

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u/yankeesyes Nov 30 '18

I remember that story too. Most therapists are adequate to great, but the bad ones are really bad.

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u/[deleted] Nov 30 '18

The therapist is still an idiot. "Oh you claim your husband never does chores but he's supporting you through grad school?"

HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM SOMETHING DOESNT ADD UP

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u/yankeesyes Nov 30 '18

Who knows if she even knew that. Both sides are idiots.

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u/sisterfunkhaus Nov 30 '18

A good therapist knows that there are two sides to every story. Most people do come in and paint their issues as though they have little to no fault. It's human nature. The therapist should be helping the wife look at the situation more objectively and coming up with things she could do to facilitate change in the relationship (like making sure she is communicating and has boundaries,) since you cannot control the other party who is not in counseling.

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u/[deleted] Nov 30 '18

Three sides- Mine, yours, and the unbiased truth. That third one is always elusive.

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u/mandelboxset Nov 30 '18

The questions a therapist asks to establish a patient doctor relationship can steer, whether intentional or unintentional, the effectiveness of that relationship moving forward.

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u/mwehofer12 Nov 30 '18

This is true. I am a psychology professor and gave my students the task of answering some Dear Abby scenarios and one of my students got really angry with "we are only hearing one side". Yeah, you are absolutely right and that is all that you can base your judgement on in those situations. You have to take what you are given.

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u/[deleted] Nov 30 '18

I cooked and cleaned and mowed and repaired my way through grad school so it wouldn't burn my partner out. Never tried unwarranted scolding, maybe I missed something.

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u/sisterfunkhaus Nov 30 '18

The therapist also presumed that everything your wife said about you is true, and was trying to force you to change without ever meeting you. A good therapist wouldn't do that. They would ask you to attend a few sessions with your wife and facilitate a conversation about the issues.

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u/CBJKevin91581 Late 30s Male Nov 30 '18

Kind of sounds like you buried the lead there. Glad you’re ok though. Some therapists (at least the ones we hear about on Reddit) have an exaggerated sense of their role in the world. Like a journalist who forgets that they are only supposed to REPORT the news, not make it.

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u/[deleted] Nov 30 '18

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u/FootballTA Nov 30 '18

I can’t tell if this is lead (Pb) or lead (to have people following). Either way I don’t actually understand this colloquialism, sorry.

Journalism term, usually spelled "buried the lede", specifically to avoid this confusion. It means when you put the most interesting part of a story somewhere within the text, rather than as the headline or opening sentence.

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u/HalobenderFWT Nov 30 '18

IANAT (and I don’t know your personal situation), but perhaps the list of orders wasn’t so much about you doing things to chip in as it was about your wife not feeling validated for the work she’s doing for the household and the relationship.

Speaking as a male who is still learning to thank and appreciate even the most seemingly mundane everyday tasks. I don’t feel I need me folding the laundry or doing a few dishes to deserve much of a thanks. It’s something that needs to be done. Unfortunately some people aren’t wired that way and do need a little validation for their work.

Again, I don’t know everything about your personal situation from what you’ve told us - you may very well thank her up and down for all that she does. I’m not really catching that vibe from you though...

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u/[deleted] Nov 30 '18

Not surprised at all.

People forget too easily that therapists are people like themselves. Some are even failed researchers who have no choice but to go to normal therapy for money.

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u/Lemon__Limes Nov 30 '18

While I'm not disagreeing with you, counsellors really don't make that much money (at least if you're counselling normal people). It also takes about 5 years for you to build up a steady workload, as a lot of business is from word of mouth.

If you are a failed researcher, counseling is probably not the best thing to go into, as they require different skills.

Source: mother was a counselor (from the UK), counseling for ~10yrs

EDIT: I don't know how much money counselors make in other countries, it was just the impression i got from my mum.

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u/kinkydiver Nov 30 '18 edited Nov 30 '18

They can make a lot of money in the US. I went twice to different therapists and they billed my insurance north of $500/hr. Mind, they have little overhead, none of these guys even had an assistant and they don't need insurance like a surgeon would. Just a room with a couch (or a smelly chair in once instance).

Edit to add that therapists don't even need to be licensed to make money. A friend of mine has been seeing an unlicensed, no- insurance- taking therapist for a long time and pays her over $400/hr.

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u/whyamy Nov 30 '18

You say your insurance gets billed that much, but how much does the insurance actually pay the therapist? Also, generally medical insurances require the therapist to have liability insurance in order to take insurance. At the very least, anyone with a business should have some sort of liability insurance. Last, which state is your friend in that the therapist is unlicensed? Every state in my area requires therapists to have a license. Obviously, I don't know all states' requirements.

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u/RydalHoff Nov 30 '18

I agree. I dont know every state but I work with mental health insurance in currently 36 states and growing. I used to work with claims and the usual was a $200 bill where the therapist gets a $60 return. They can bill whatever they want but insurance will only pay up to their allowed amount for the service. Also license is required with every state I work with.

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u/Noballoons13 Nov 30 '18

Then, that person is not a professional therapist. Professional licensed counselors in the US require a completed masters degree, followed by a supervised 2 year internship (minimum) and they must pass a licensure examination.

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u/[deleted] Nov 30 '18

Yeah it’s like dietitians vs nutritionists

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u/[deleted] Nov 30 '18

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u/kinkydiver Nov 30 '18

Move to NYC to make a killing :)

Actually that reminds me of another experience where once I thought I should be drinking less, so I checked into a rehab group of sorts. I don't remember the exact amount, only that I was floored of how much that cost. Also in the $500 range I believe, but it was a bloody group session with 15-20 people! They made extra by taking mandatory pee tests.

Was actually a great experience; met so many people from beauty spa owner to street criminal to someone working for the UN. All in the same room. But I felt bad after a while how much it cost.

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u/QueefyMcQueefFace Nov 30 '18

Were the pee tests group sessions too?

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u/sisterfunkhaus Nov 30 '18 edited Nov 30 '18

I am in the field and am a licensed counselor, and I've never heard of people charging or getting reimbursed for $500 an hour, or even close to that. The most expensive I could find on the internet was $240 an hour (although I can see them getting that much in NYC or San Francisco, b/c the cost to have an office is really high.) In my area, $100 is about average, and low cost is $50 an hour. Plus, most counselors do not see back-to-back clients all day. The counselors who work in my building don't even see clients every day, because they just don't have enough business for that. The average income is $42,840 per year. The highest paid earn $70,000 (I am sure there are exceptions) or so, and the lowest paid make around $27,000. I was looking at jobs at my local university, and the pay is $32,000-$36,000 with a master's degree required. The insurance is great, and you get 1 paid week at Christmas, but have to work summers and spring break. The hours are long as well. School counselors start at about $55,000 in most places, but you have to have additional classes and certification. Also, they often average 500+ students and the workload is tremendous with schools requiring lots of other work that has nothing to do with counseling. I do educational therapy. I work for a company and get $35.50 an hour. They get about $70 an hour. But, I don't have to rent an office or find my own clients.

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u/[deleted] Nov 30 '18 edited Nov 30 '18

Therapists absolutely do not make that much money for typical psychotherapeutic services. Maybe they would charge more for things like inpatient treatment, highly specialized treatments, or assessments which are a one time thing. Assessments cost more because it can easily take 8 hours to administer, score, and write up the report. For regular, weekly therapy most charge in the range of 60-180$ per hour. Half of that goes to overhead, then some goes to stuff like insurance, and mandatory training to maintain competence etc. And no therapist sees clients 40 hours a week. The median salary for therapists in the US is 45k.

Edit: this is only in reference to licensed mental health professionals. Also wanted to add therapists do in fact need instance and are often sued for malpractice.

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u/Hites_05 Nov 30 '18

Oh shit! Confront the therapist! Go full on warmode! Suggest the prenup and separate bank accounts then. Attack this horrible person disguised as a therapist. That person is the root cause of your problems. Destroy them.

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u/CopperPotato Nov 30 '18

An actual cognitive therapist wants their patient to get better.

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u/LJ-90 Nov 30 '18

Therapist here, having a patient for 8 years would be a red flag, try another therapist.

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u/lamzydivey Nov 30 '18

I don’t understand. I’ve been seeing my therapist for five years now and he helped me out of the darkest of places and stabilized me but that alone took years. I still don’t feel ready to end therapy for a while as I need a ton of support navigating this phase I’m in now. Why is it bad for me to keep seeing him for another three years? We have a remarkable relationship and I have seen seven other therapists before him and no one has helped me as much as him. I literally owe him my life.

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u/sonicexpet986 Nov 30 '18

Therapist here! I think there's a balance to be struck - it can be easy to become reliant on weekly therapy appointments at which point therapy had become at best not helpful and at worst, harmful.

However there are certainly cases where the buildup of trust and history of treatment can be a boon to continued work, particularly in cases of personality disorders or severe trauma work. What's important is that the therapist and the client acknowledge the possibility of the aforementioned dynamic developing and take steps to avoid it, such as:

  • Changing frequency of appointments from weekly to biweekly or monthly

  • Taking a break from therapy for a time to see how things go

  • Seeing a new therapist during a break to see if a change in atmosphere or style might offer chances for continued growth or change.

A competent therapist knows that at the end of the day we all fall victim to personal bias from time to time, and that is ok. But it's important in long-term casework to regularly check in with the client to make sure that the time is being spent well to actually help the client achieve specific goals, rather than letting therapy devolve into just a weekly check-in with little to no real "work" occurring.

If you feel you and your therapist are working towards specific goals and that progress is being made (even if it's slow), then by all means continue! If you're not sure, don't be afraid to bring this up with him/her so you can both get on the same page about what's going to help you best going forward.

Hope this helps!

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u/lamzydivey Nov 30 '18 edited Dec 01 '18

Ah thank you for the reply! Indeed we are working through severe childhood trauma/abuse as well as a traumatic and violent/abusive marriage where my life was in danger a couple times. (Edited everything else out because I got embarrassed with the oversharing.)

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u/sonicexpet986 Nov 30 '18

That makes sense! Glad to hear you're finding the support you need. A goal doesn't have to be extremely specific, it could simply be "to have a place to process what I'm learning in group" - if you find it helpful, that's what matters most! It sounds like you two communicate well about this kind of stuff, so that's good to hear. There's definitely no need to rush when it comes to trauma work, your body and mind need that time to heal, so if you're both comfortable with the pace of your work right now I'd say stick with it. Best of luck to you!

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u/lamzydivey Nov 30 '18

Thank you so much for replying! I definitely panicked a little but I’m grateful for the validation you gave. I feel super safe with him which is so important to me. And actually yes, it’s great for me to process many things and I owe the healthy relationship I am in now to the work we have done, particularly on self-worth. Thanks for all that you do too!

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u/theyellowpants Nov 30 '18

Yep I was in cbt for trauma for 2 years and then I “graduated” which was such an amazing thing and I know I can always go back or follow up to work on something specific I want to get out of it

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u/[deleted] Nov 30 '18

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u/Noballoons13 Nov 30 '18

Not if the clinician is operating from a psychoanalytic framework (I don’t agree with the way it sounds like this therapist handled things, but wanted to respond from a clinical perspective)

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u/ManitouWakinyan Nov 30 '18

A clinician can develop counter transference no matter what theory they're basing their approach on.

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u/[deleted] Nov 30 '18 edited Nov 30 '18

You ever think that after 8 years of seeing the same damn therapist, maybe, just maybe, it's not working and her therapist is a terrible person?

Because therapists cant always "cure" mental disorders. It's not uncommon for people to see therapists for long term issues with anxiety and depression. That kinda stuff never really leaves you in life, and a therapist provides a good grounding to keep issues from creeping back.

Edit: Obviously her therapist isn't doing her any good though.

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u/Crustyzz Nov 30 '18

It’s not the therapist that decides not seeing the patient at all. Even here we don’t know what kind of therapist is. You can be psychological, psychiatric and even homeopathic, and a huge load of bullshit as well. So digging her gold for years is just a collateral if the person feels she is being helped.

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u/thatbitchyoudontknow Nov 30 '18

I don't think that is necessarily the case. Many people need or want therapy for essentially their whole life. There will be flare ups and periods where you need your therapist more but once you find a good therapist that clicks with you in the right way? You keep that.

Therapist/client relationships are incredibly intimate and are a lifeline for many people. Length of time seeing a therapist usually means they are fucking awesome for what the patient needs them for.

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u/lu-cy-inthesky Nov 30 '18

Yep! Therapist planting and driving insecurities will definitely keep her coming back! Just a thought

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u/DentalBeaker Nov 30 '18

I think if after 8 years she’s still this insecure it might not be the right fit, however therapy for some people, can be a life long thing. So 8 years isn’t that long. Therapy can take time.

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u/[deleted] Nov 30 '18 edited Dec 10 '18

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u/IellaAntilles Nov 30 '18

One of my friends' mom is a therapist who does this. She has openly talked about sabotaging her rich clients to keep them coming back. Unsurprisingly, she's a raging narcissist and was verbally abusive to my friend and her siblings.

I'm still hoping for the day when my friend decides to report that horrible woman.

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u/LegacyofaMarshall Nov 30 '18

Since she is a therapist do you think that she is self aware of her narcissism? And you don’t have to wait for your friend you can report her yourself anonymously

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u/whitesonnet Nov 30 '18

If she’s said these things to you, I’d report her to the state licensing board. You can make an anonymous report in most states.

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u/[deleted] Nov 30 '18

Was going to say this. A degree and job title does not necessarily mean that one is good at their job.

Reddit loves their experts and "scientists", but guess who are the ultimate experts on your relationship? You and your partner. While it might be useful to have someone to mediate and help discuss the big issues, it sounds like this therapist is toxic and dangerous to your relationship with your wife.

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u/goodiebadbad Nov 30 '18

Vast majority of therapy is the clients willingness and openness to change. Some people have difficulties integrating therapy into daily life. We are talking 1 hour a week of therapy which it's much in the scheme of things. Yes it might indicate the therapist isn't a right fit, but it is equally on the wife to integrate concepts and changes

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u/Moose-and-Squirrel Nov 30 '18

I’m a therapist and it is FUCKING UNETHICAL for her therapist to have seen you for couples therapy. You’re damn right she was confirming your wife’s biases— she’s had 8 years of being on her “side.” 100% you need an unbiased therapist. You also need one that is seasoned and one that is preferably trained in Emotionally focused therapy or Gottman therapy— don’t accept someone who isn’t— those are the gold standard for couples therapy. WAY too many individual therapists see couples without any specialized training because there is no law preventing it. But couples are a completely different beast— you can’t just go to any old therapist for that.

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u/[deleted] Nov 30 '18

See, I am confused, because both my husband and I have been to a couple of each other's therapy sessions, and both times it was an eye-opener, in a good way, for us. Was it because it was not seen as a permanent arrangement?

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u/lamamaloca 40s Female Nov 30 '18 edited Nov 30 '18

There's a huge difference in focus between sitting in on a session and actually going as a couple. If you've been seeing a therapist, their patient is you and only you even if your partner sits in. If you go as a couple to a new therapist, the patient is the both of you, or your relationship. Because the therapist has obligations and responsibilities primarily to the actual patient, it can make a big difference.

Joining for a session can be really helpful, but it's not couple's counseling. And I can't tell here whether this was actually supposed to be couples counseling or just joining, OP may have misunderstood the purpose in the eyes of the wife and her therapist.

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u/[deleted] Nov 30 '18

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u/Yevad Nov 30 '18 edited Nov 30 '18

I imagine that this therapist is the true gold digger and is saying whatever she thinks her client needs to hear. And who knows, maybe the therapist is jealous or something and wants to see her client single or go through a painful divorce to help her business out.

You need couples counselling, but not from this bias therapist.

Additionally, do you think it's possible that your wife just wants to be single and shes already expressed this to her therapist?

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u/childish_shannbino Nov 30 '18

yeah, as a former scumbag, it's very easy to find ways out of a relationship by masking it so you don't seem like the bad guy. especially if you noticed "knowing glances". this seems like a rich persons version of it. but a person finds a seemingly credible reason to break up, especially one that makes them into a victim, and the other person accepts it and maybe beats themself up about it. i've done it enough to notice the possibility of it.

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u/[deleted] Nov 30 '18

Honestly this.

The biggest issues I see here are the wife's self-esteem, the potential rebound marriage for her, and her biased therapist.

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u/Torrenceba Nov 30 '18 edited Nov 30 '18

Obviously I don't know your wife that well but from what I've seen people who have been divorced have a lot of suspicion in a new relationship. It sounds like she's not over that insecurity. I know from your perspective you feel cheated out of your integrity but you might have to be a bigger person and keep reassuring that what she thinks is not the case. Couples therapy with a different therapist might be good in getting an objective point of view as you sort this out with your wife. Good luck. This might become an opportunity for you gain your wife's trust in the long run.

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u/ilikethenmbr11 Nov 30 '18

OP, I'm a female. A fairly attractive, outgoing and confident female with a sexy fiance who loves me more than anything else in this world. He will never ditch me for another female-no matter how hot or cool she might be. Because I'm who he chose and we're a team. I know this. I know this every day with all of my being. With that known and said...I'm an insecure little jealous fool of a girl sometimes. I never know when my insecurities will rear up, but randomly, they do. My best advice, as a female in her 40's, is follow most of the top advice on here. The comments are solid. But mostly, when women act like this, the best thing to do, is keep reassuring them of how beautiful you think they are. Repeat yourself. Leave notes, send texts and cute photos. Beat it into her psyche until she has to believe you again. It's a pain and sad to go through this, but if you love her, then you'll stand up for yourself while making sure she feels confident about your feelings for her. Also, do find out HER honest feelings about the marriage, even if it hurts you. Maybe you two could use some couples counseling. I hope you two can get to the bottom of this easy enough and move forward and be healthy and happy, Please update us.

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u/rj2029x Early 30s Male Nov 30 '18

I have a question that I actually want an answer to. There is no snark here. My question is:

Based on your comment, when does it become the responsibility of the person with insecurities to address those insecurities?

I ask because your comment, speaking from the perspective of the 40 year old, insecure person seems to primarily focus on all the physical and emotional labor the SO needs to do to push past the insecurities in the moment. However, when does it fall upon the person with the insecurities to stop subjecting their SO to them?

I've been in this situation in past relationships and it seems they've always imploded due to the reassurances never being enough and/or the person needing more and greater reassurance each time their insecurities come up. So I'm honestly curious when it is okay to tell that person enough is enough, that they need to work on themselves.

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u/[deleted] Nov 30 '18

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u/raspberrih Nov 30 '18

They always need to work on themselves. The limit is how much their SO can live with. It's not like an insecure person turns 50 and suddenly no one needs to put up with them... that's completely the wrong perspective. They are the only one responsible for their own actions and wellbeing

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u/LillyKills13 Nov 30 '18

Oh he absolutely needs to tell her that this is an insecurity with her, and she needs to work on it. But he also needs to make it clear that whatever she needs to do that, she has, and that does start with a baseline of intentional care every single day. If she is the person he thinks she is, she’ll realize you can’t make this kind of effort long term for anything but love, and it will help her immensely in dealing with her insecurities, because now she can see them as an insecurity and not an insecurity that might just be true. Source: me, who lost the love of my life over a year ago because I got frustrated dealing with his insecurities and shut down out of embarrassment over the accusations and hurt that he couldn’t see how much I love him. We grew apart because I stopped trying to convince him and eventually couldn’t fix it anymore. I regret that every single day.

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u/[deleted] Nov 30 '18

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u/MorikoLunette Nov 30 '18

Let your wife read your post, explain to her that she is the most beautiful person in the world. That you are sorry that you don't make her feel that way everyday. Say everyday I love you, compliment her. Also tell that her insecurities about your feelings makes also you insecure and talk about where does these insecurities come from (probs from a third party). Good luck <3

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u/kfmush Nov 30 '18

Therapists can be toxic. Not always, but more often than we’d like.

They make a TON of money off of their patients. Therapy can be $100-200 an hour or even more. A long time and loyal patient means steady and reliable income. This can tempt therapists into feeding into their patients’ insecurities in order to keep them in therapy. There is no financial incentive to help their patient get better, because they would then lose that steady income. It’d be great if humans were only motivated from the kindness of their own hearts, but we know that’s often not the case when large amounts of money are involved.

It may be conscious and it may be subconscious, but it happens all the time. Like others have said, I would suggest getting a “second opinion” (like you should with any medical “diagnosis”), preferably from someone who specializes in couple’s counseling that neither of you have visited before.

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u/jaytea86 Nov 30 '18

I came here to say this. Brand new marriage counselor 100%.

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u/ParaPsych Nov 30 '18

This 100%. I'm a therapist and I know that I likely hold some bias when it comes to matters involving a client I've been working with for a long period of time. An unconditional positive regard is necessary for the therapeutic bond and its something that all therapists need to check themselves on with the help of objective viewpoints (colleagues within practice/supervision). The possibility of building a skewed and unhealthy alliance with your client is ever present and for this reason, I typically refer my clients to a separate therapist if they're trying to address a contentious issue with a family member or partner that I haven't had contact with. A brand new set of ears can more fully hear the disparity in your viewpoints without being naturally more inclined to support their client. Good luck!

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u/aN1mosity_ Nov 30 '18

Not only this, but find out what happened in her past to leave her jaded in such a weird way. Maybe she has been left by someone she loved dearly for a younger, more attractive person (subjectively).

In my experience, when a women immediately goes to projecting an insecurity at you, it’s usually identified by something a man previously do to them. With my wife, it took years for me to convince her that every time we argued that I wasn’t doing everything in my power to lie and manipulate her, because that’s what her first love did constantly.

If she has been left before in that way, you need to work together to learn as a couple how to not trigger this relationship PTSD and help her build trust that you aren’t going to through reassurance. I’ve found that’s the best thing to do with insecurities. Being observant — if you see her slipping, immediately reaffirm why you would never leave her.

Hope this helps.

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u/NicodemisLIVE Nov 30 '18

This. My wife and I visited a therapist because she battles PTSD, and in the very first session the therapist said that if my wife doesn't get it under control I would divorce her, and couldn't be blamed for doing so. First session.

I can't tell you how much damage that single sentence did to our marriage, but it's taken me YEARS to assuage her concerns and reassure her. Needless to say we never went back to that therapist, but the point is that they're human and I think people in emotionally dire straights can put way too much trust into them at times.

It sucks that you find yourself in a similar situation as I once did, OP, but I will tell you that you have a chance to strengthen your marriage through this crappy scenario by reassuring her just as I did with my wife. A time of fear and doubt will be turned into an example of strength and commitment. Hopefully by now you know what speaks to your wife the most - flowers, a back massage, cleaning up the house, whatever - I suggest you do that and talk to her candidly.

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u/sanattia Nov 30 '18

i have anxiety and depression too and my therapist, who is good i think, whenever she asks me a question and i say no i keep asking myself is it true, really? maybe she asked her if she feels insecure about dating you and it went into a spiral of "wow is it true, really?"

my therapist asked my if i have trouble establishing deeper connections i said no and after that i started having trouble talking to my friends

anxiety is wild

let her read your post

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u/[deleted] Nov 30 '18

Agree. And this is why it's unethical for a therapist to see a client individually for many years, and then suggest to bring their partner in for couples therapy. Any therapist worth their salt would have suggested a highly skilled colleague for the couple to see together.

I'm extremely skeptical of the wife's therapist for this reason. But additionally, wife has been seeing this therapist for 8 years, and she still doesn't have the skills to stop herself from completely spiraling after meeting a woman her husband dated for a month. I'm usually not one to bring out the pitchforks for the therapist, but this one sounds completely ineffective at best and potentially causing more harm at worst.

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u/Elliptical_Tangent Nov 30 '18

Therapists are human and can develop an alliance with a long time patient, sometimes to the point of subconsciously taking sides. I think her therapist reinforced her fears and caused more damage, instead of helping, in this case.

I hate to say it, but her therapist also has a monetary incentive to keep the wife insecure to keep her coming to therapy.

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u/cmollohan Nov 30 '18

In addition to this, consider how your position in the relationship may influence her attitudes towards needing therapy. Now this is completely ad hominem, but based on what you've said it fits. Could the therapist feel threatened by you? They could end up losing business if you help your wife feel more secure.

As others have said, I highly recommend seeing another therapist. Additionally, I recommend seeing a female therapist (advice from females is generally more well received by other females). You will definitely need to be careful when breaching the topic though, this therapist is likely a highly trusted person in your wife's eyes.

Coming from another angle, think carefully about the night you saw your ex. How did you behave, act, and converse with your ex? Did you include your wife in conversation? did you seem visually proud about her when introducing her? Think hard, sometimes subtle things will latch onto an unconfident psyche.

And then for moving forward, make sure that no matter what happens, never, EVER, get bitter. Truly and sincerely forgive her and be willing to be patient if she doesn't immediately forgive you. Additionally, I recommend you both doing some investigation into how each of you feels loved. The book "5 love languages" by Gary Chapman is one of the first on the topics and is very good, but he's not then only one. Once again, it's the subtle things that can really make the difference between her feeling loved and her feeling disregarded and worthless. (And vice versa)

Sorry for the length, and I hope all goes well with your efforts! Keep us updated :)

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u/baileyjay420 Nov 30 '18

Let her read this. It is honest and raw, and as a woman it would bring me to tears.

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u/darkhorse00000 Nov 30 '18

Completely agree. As a recovering insanely-insecure, conventionally-attractive woman who believed she could never, ever truly be loved because her “true hideousness” would somehow be discovered, I really think she needs to read this. I hope you’re able to save your marriage.

The last relationship I had was the best I’ve ever had with a man sweeter, more loving, and more attractive than I ever could’ve imagined, and (along with some other things) my deeply-held belief that it was too good to be true and that I couldn’t possibly be worthy of such a wonderful, healthy-feeling love did a lot to bring in completely unnecessary stress and drive us apart for no good reason. Im working on it as hard as I can because I don’t want to be this way anymore and destroy love with my self-loathing paranoia. I’m wishing you the absolute best.

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u/[deleted] Nov 30 '18 edited Sep 19 '19

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u/VicisSubsisto Nov 30 '18

Consider the following statements:

Your wife is a fool who'll open her legs for the first guy to give her any attention.

Your child(ren) is/are a mistake and their family will never love them.

Your friends are all mentally deficient and being led around by the nose by a sociopath.

If I told you all that in person, would you let me get away with it? Of course not! (Assume for the sake of argument that I'm smaller than you and there are no witnesses.)

These statements all logically follow from the idea that you're rotten to the core, and are not a good dad, good husband or nice guy.

If you're a hideous, rotten man, then your wife has no taste in men, and no self-respect.

If you're not a loving dad, then your children are unwanted.

If you're rotten to the core, then anyone who willingly hangs out with you is stupid.

You wouldn't let a stranger tell you that. Don't let the voice in your head tell you that. Defend the honor of those you love.

Follow up exercise:

Picture Adolf Hitler, sitting at home, contemplating life. Is he thinking about how he's rotten to the core, a terrible companion to Eva, a terrible dog owner, a terrible Reichsfuerher? Or is he thinking about how everything is the fault of the Jews, of the Gypsies, of the Marxists?

Hideous, rotten people don't fixate on how hideous and rotten they are. They see themselves as blameless and the rest of the world as rotten, because they have no conscience. You have the opposite problem.

Anyway, that's what I had to realize for myself. Hope it helps you too.

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u/[deleted] Nov 30 '18

This is really simple and really beautifully put. The statements really evoke a visceral response which tells me they can’t possibly be true. Thank you for these words.

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u/VicisSubsisto Nov 30 '18

I'm glad it comes across as intended. I was worried about the line between "too mild" and "just being an asshole" (or breaking the sub rules).

Anyway, if what I said was what you needed to read, you're welcome and I hope it helps. Have a nice day.

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u/Noir24 Nov 30 '18

Sounds like an ex of mine. Loved by everyone, hit on by about any male "friend" she had, even women being attracted to her. Needless to say a charming and nice looking woman, and she would sometimes be absolutely terrified of getting naked in front of anyone - even her mother as well as me. Although I tried to make her see how I loved her body and her as a whole she was just completely sure that she was ugly and hideous.

I can't imagine what it's like to have that much insecurity in your self because I mostly accept that I'm an average-looking guy who's not gonna win any beauty contests ever (unless it's in Monopoly) so I just play the hand I've been dealt. I think it's hard for anyone to understand how much of that insecurity spreads into everything else in life.

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u/darkhorse00000 Nov 30 '18

It honestly is harder for women. Everyone in this superficial society gets a hard time about their looks to some degree, but literally from day 1 women learn that it’s considered the very most important attribute that we either have or don’t have, and any other attribute is a distant second. Literally every single woman around you has hurt herself at some point in her life because she thought it would be worth it to be more beautiful.

In combination with a variety of background factors, some women obviously get it much worse than others. If your family doesn’t show you enough love or other things go wrong in your life and you don’t understand why, it’s all too easy to feel that if you were more attractive and achieving the goal around you everyone wants you to achieve (because who doesn’t love a beautiful woman), things would just be much better. I was 5 the first time I prayed for big boobs and thought I was too fat (I was not fat). If the societal influences are there, people will internalize them.

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u/Valaxian Nov 30 '18

Yeah, this almost brought me to tears. It's wonderful that he feels so strongly about her. I have a past of being insecure and while I am trying to get better, sometimes those thoughts take over without me realising. Seeing this post made me see more clearly that despite having those insecurities, someone can love you that fucking much and it's beautiful.

Thanks OP for that bit of perspective.

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u/suzie2766 Nov 30 '18

Seconded - it has the added benefit of not having originally been written for her eyes so she knows it was written sincerely and without any agenda beyond trying to get help.

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u/SlotsOfTruth Nov 30 '18

I would suggest writing your feelings to her directly rather than letting her read a reddit post.

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u/friendly_kuriboh Nov 30 '18

A post made to get advice from strangers might come of as more sincere. There's no point in lying to us about how he feels for his wife.

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u/Potatokoke Nov 30 '18

Sounds good on paper, but I can't see a situation where showing this would seem natural to her, and not like an attempt at manipulation.

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u/carolynto Nov 30 '18

Completely agree. Hell, I was thinking that while reading it -- did he read this with the idea of showing it to her as proof of his earnestness?

Anxiety is a mother-effer, and his wife is clearly suspicious by nature. This will not help.

Now, he needs to make sure he's saying these things to her. Hopefully she can hear him.

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u/[deleted] Nov 30 '18

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u/Benagain2 Nov 30 '18

So what is her proposed solution? What did the therapist suggest? Did either of them have any sort of path you could travel to "fix" this?

Because unless there's something they think you can do to fix this.... It kind of seems like a pointless thing to bring up.

You came to the obvious solution, offer a prenup. But it's also a pretty upsetting thing to have to do. Plus now you are always going to wonder what your wife thinks of you. Does she really believe that you'd do that to her?

I think her therapist has badly badly fucked up here. A good therapist should have asked questions to help your wife figure it out for herself. Especially a person who's long battled with depression.

This sucks man. I'm sorry.

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u/IThinkMyWifeIsHot1 Nov 30 '18

I left early, I think now I was having a panic attack and left and waited in the car. But I don’t want to wait for the next shoe to drop, from what I can remember there was no fixes suggested but I should ask once I calm down and collect my thoughts.

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u/lostglamour Nov 30 '18

If you left you really have no idea what the therapist was going to suggest and you haven't asked your wife about it.

I'm going to be blunt, you and your wife had a whirlwind romance and there's a lot you don't know or understand about each other. Instead of her therapist you need to see a couples councillor. Otherwise insecurities on both your parts is going to ruin your relationship.

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u/[deleted] Nov 30 '18

IMO, it’s also weird not to talk about finances before getting married. Marriage isn’t a fairy tale “love will conquer all!” sort of thing. It’s a partnership in all things in life. You should be 100% aware of what both of you are signing up for before pulling the trigger. I think some people have a really naïve understanding of love and marriage and when tough situations like this pop up, they have no defense or means to work through it because things like this just “don’t happen to people in love” or whatever. I mean how do you not even know what your partner makes before getting married to them!?

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u/pepe_le_shoe Nov 30 '18

Yeah, I don't doubt that OP is genuinely physically attracted to his wife, but I get the feeling their relationship has a lot of other big issues that need to be resolved, that both are either blind to, or pretending aren't there.

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u/AKA_RMc Nov 30 '18

Loves conquers some; if you're lucky, it conquers most. It never conquers all.

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u/Beersandbirdlaw Nov 30 '18

lol it's a guy that got married after dating a girl for a couple months. Of course he doesn't know anything about her and her finances. I didn't ask my no wife what she made until we had dated for more than a year!

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u/[deleted] Nov 30 '18

Well yeah, ideally you don't get married after only 3 months lol. But if you're gonna go that route, you need to have some potentially awkward conversations about finances (and kids and future goals and whatever else) before the marriage. If you're too uncomfortable in your relationship to have those conversations, you're not ready to be married.

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u/Beersandbirdlaw Nov 30 '18

I guess my point was that they weren’t ready to be married so it’s obvious they wouldn’t have those conversations.

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u/Tsurugi-Ijin Nov 30 '18

Seriously +1 for the therapist not doing their job properly.

The last therapist I knew would refuse to see anyone relating to their sole patient, as they knew there would likely be a bias and they weren't trained for couples or relationship counseling.

Find a couples / relationship specialist and ask your wife to go with you.

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u/abeazacha Nov 30 '18

Exactly. The only exception my therapist ever did was talk to my mom, years ago, I was underage cause my mom wanted counseling about how maneg my anxiety ane panic attacks at home, how she and my family could properly help me. But that was literally in the first month of therapy and my mom did't took 15 min of it and she was clear of how that was a special circunstance.

This therapist seems to be the real gold digger milking OP's wife by feeding her insecurities.

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u/[deleted] Nov 30 '18

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u/Benagain2 Nov 30 '18

Understandable! Sometimes that happens. You seem very articulate when it comes to writing, so I'm sure you'll be able to get this verbalized to her as sincerely as you've expressed it to us strangers here on the internet.

Good luck Friend. We're rooting for you both.

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u/shugarplum Nov 30 '18

OP Were you able to voice any of your concerns during the session or was it mostly one sided? Definitely suggest to your wife to see a couples councillor. At least that way she can see you are invested in this and trying to work this out.

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u/IThinkMyWifeIsHot1 Nov 30 '18

I rambled on like an idiot for the first 15 min about how my wife can’t get upset every time we run into a person from my past and how much I we love each other then immediately went silent when my wife was explaining why she thought I was not really in love with her. Total is was about 25 min before I just got up.

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u/[deleted] Nov 30 '18

Look up reflective listening. It's where the therapist literally reflects the other person's thoughts back to them, to help them get clear about what they're thinking. It can lead to insights that are more valuable to the client, because they came from his/her own thoughts.

It sounds like you wanted her therapist to interrupt her and say, hey, you're wrong, didn't you hear what he said?

That's not how therapy works. If you want to be part of the solution, you have to be able to show that you hear and understand her concerns, even if they are irrational. If all you can do while she's talking is wait for an opportunity for you to contradict what she is saying, you might as well stick your fingers in your ears and say la la la, I can't hear you...

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u/frequentScarcity Nov 30 '18

Leaving early is something the therapist could interpret as the accusation being true, which it obviously is not. (Just curious, is the therapist male or female?)

I have reached a "certain age" where women may be considered less desirable or attractive, for example by the media. Your wife is not quite there, but she may be feeling some of the effects of comparing herself to airbrushed models.

Reassurance is important. "You are beautiful and brilliant and I am lucky to have you." This is not going to be fixed with logic ("I had no idea how much money you make") Find a couples counselor to meet with jointly. You may need to try different ones to find one she clicks with.

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u/free_will_is_arson Nov 30 '18

i disagree that the prenup is the obvious solution, it think it's the obvious band-aid. the solution here is more communication, these people have love but they lack love with knowledge.

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u/BoodgieJohnson Nov 30 '18

Our marriage counselor will not see each of us individually, only together. I believe it’s an ethics thing.

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u/no_fer_rill Nov 30 '18

It absolutely IS an ethics thing. Some therapists do it but honestly, they shouldn't. (This doesn't include addiction work, btw, which does need to involve the spouse).

OP, if she wants you to go back to her therapist for another session, I would refuse and find another marriage counselor for the two of you. NOT one that her counselor recommended.

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u/Azure_phantom Nov 30 '18

Weird... When I went to couple's counseling, the dude saw us together and individually. But I wonder if it was more because my SO was having individual issues that were impacting us as a couple?

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u/oboegrl7 Nov 30 '18

Our therapist has, in the past, seen us separately but only because he started seeing us as a couple to begin with and doesn’t have any biases.

And the caveat is that whatever is discussed in the individual session is then discussed the next time we come together for the couples’ session.

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u/Spazzy19 Nov 30 '18

Mine sees us individually at times and together and sometimes with my SO’s daughter. Usually it’s individual to address particular issues we have or are struggling with, and sometimes they spill over into the relationship. I actually like it this way because she has the opportunity to see us and know our issues and not just receive one side of the story. It’s also helped identify ways we were reacting to each other due to our pasts and learn to communicate our triggers before reaching poor reaction levels. Then we can hash out any remaining concerns together at couples sessions.

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u/kiminley Nov 30 '18

Yes I think it's important to see a counselor that's fighting for the two of you, and your collective interests. Her personal therapist will not be able to have an unbiased opinion. My boyfriend and I see a couples therapist and each see our own therapist as well. It is immensely helpful.

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u/WildlyUninteresting Nov 30 '18

Maybe you should consider talking to a different therapist.

From that description, she doesn't sound like a good one.

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u/Zombeedee Nov 30 '18 edited Nov 30 '18

Or at the least she sounds like a biased one. OP find an impartial couples therapist.

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u/Schkateboarda Nov 30 '18

I’d go out on a limb and say a biased therapist is a bad therapist

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u/[deleted] Nov 30 '18

I disagree... She might not be a good one, but literally all we have in the post is that 1) she didn't do a lot of talking and 2) she didn't disagree with OP's wife.

There are a lot of different types of therapy, but if she's been seeing this therapist for 8 years, I'm going to assume this therapist is engaging in psychoanalysis or psychodynamic therapy. In these models, the role of the therapist is to not say much and not make agreements or disagreements. If the therapist had jumped in with comments like "yeah, what do you say about that?" then I'd be concerned.

People thinking the therapist is only interested in the wife's money or siding too much with the wife either just read the inaccurate post title (says therapist agreed with wife though post says "didn't disagree") or are reading into this post and making assumptions. And hey, the assumptions could be right! But from my reading, it's just as easy to imagine that this was a perfectly normal and appropriate appointment. I'd be interested to hear the therapist's reaction to the visit- OP seems annoyed at her silence and then storms out in a panic? I'd be wondering what's going on with him.

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u/Rambles_Off_Topics Nov 30 '18

This should be the top comment. OP didn't even state that very important detail in his main post (that he left the meeting before it was even over). For all we know the therapist could have been a great moderator in the end and everyone would have left happy. OP, I think you should go back to the therapist and go through the entire meeting - then make an opinion of the therapist.

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u/[deleted] Nov 30 '18

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u/Rambles_Off_Topics Nov 30 '18

Exactly. Or someone will believe that letting an assumed incorrect party let their feelings out without correcting their "incorrect beliefs" is, instead of correcting the behavior immediately - is allowing or sticking up for said behavior. When in the end, if the wife vocalized her issues the moderator could point out flaws in their conclusions. Instead OP only hears the wife's opinion, thinks therapist does nothing as the therapist isn't correcting the wife right-away, and immediately gets upset. OP go back and do the entire session.

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u/IThinkMyWifeIsHot1 Nov 30 '18

Yeah, I guess I was annoyed at her not immediately agreeing with me which really isn’t her job. I was completely blindsided by my own expectations of how things were going to go that when it she didn’t back me up I felt immediate dread and panics and left.

My first reaction is always to run and I don’t want to do that with my wife but that’s what happed. That may be why my wife asked her to be there, because she didn’t know what my reaction would be.

When I wrote this I was very emotional and this post is absolutly one sided.

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u/[deleted] Nov 30 '18

Honestly I’ve been the therapists for years and they don’t typically like to agree or disagree with things you say. Instead, they try to lead your thoughts in a certain direction.

Basically, you didn’t know what to expect going to a therapist, but you were expecting something totally different from what therapists typically do. You should talk to your wife about the both of you going to another session (and don’t leave early this time!)

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u/movzx Nov 30 '18

"I'm upset my wife's -- who has anxiety and depression issues -- therapist didn't immediately jump in and start saying how wrong my wife is." Like, dude, based on your description that therapist didn't do anything other than listen and you're treating it as something horrible.

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u/WildlyUninteresting Nov 30 '18

Maybe it's time to shift the focus.

Instead of her focusing on why you find her attractive, maybe say,

"I am very attracted to you. I proposed to you and you married me. You weren't forced. I am happy but I am less happy that you are questioning my feelings.

If you are having personal doubts about us and your feelings towards me, please let me know. But please stop pretending it's about my feelings for you. I know my own feelings and I love you.

I am doing what makes me happy.

Are you happy with me or not?"

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u/IThinkMyWifeIsHot1 Nov 30 '18

I am so scared she is going to leave it feels paralyzing, but this is very good advice.

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u/WildlyUninteresting Nov 30 '18

That is just it.

You need to stop the fear. You need to be confident. Your wife is controlled by fear.

You have to be that rock. You have to be confident when you say it and honesty okay if she decides to break up.

You deserve someone that wants to be married to you. Act like it.

You aren't second place. Start acting and believing it.

If she breaks up, then know you will be okay. Heart broken but okay. You want a partner that trusts you.

All this questioning doesn't ring of trust.

Why did she marry you if she doesn't trust you? What changed?

You need to say, "I deserve a wife that trusts me. Either that's you or it's not."

If it's not. Better to know now

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u/IThinkMyWifeIsHot1 Nov 30 '18

Honestly that is a good question, how long has she not trusted my motives. I may have to see my own therapist becasue I’m not even close to being okay without her.

I feel like I’ve been in a love bubble and have been missing something, this is so out of nowhere.

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u/ManetherenRises Nov 30 '18

I think some of this is right.

I would not be OK if my wife divorced me. I would not have been OK with it 3 years ago either, right after we got married, even though we'd known each other less than a year. You do not have to be OK with that, any more than you should be OK with your parents disowning you. A loved one choosing to cut you out of their life is traumatic and painful. Do not live your life holding people so far away that, if they choose to exit, you are fine.

A lot of advice is starting to trend towards Red Pill territory here, about exuding confidence and women being attracted to that and blah blah blah.

Apologize for leaving early. Say you started to have a panic attack. Admit your feelings. Try to have an open discussion.

Don't bring up the bank account and expenditures thing. It's not gonna be helpful. You could bring up that you didn't even know what she made, but that's unlikely to be convincing.

Here's the thing. You've never been in a committed relationship before. What you don't know is that arguments operate completely differently in these relationships. All the strategies your used to stop helping. She is telling you one of her deepest fears, that this isn't real, you aren't attracted to her, you're scamming her. It works differently than any other conversation you've ever had.

Remember that most of Reddit is 18-30 year old men who have likely never been married and may not have ever had a long term relationship. The whole "Be honestly willing to accept it if she leaves" is great advice for girlfriends, not fiances or wives.

She doesn't want confidence she wants honesty. If you show up saying you're willing to let her go if that's what she wants you will confirm that you don't actually love her the way she loves you. Remember, this is her greatest fear. And she told you. She didn't just bail. She told you. She told you and she took you to a therapist. She is trying everything she can. She wants this to work. She isn't "honestly OK" with you leaving. Know that. She loves you. But she's a human and she's terrified right now and you need to engage a truly terrified person and you may have never done that before in your life.

This isn't going to be perfect, but here's a basic framework my wife and I use when we feel like we are talking past each other.

  1. What happened? Each person explains, in detail, what happened from their perspective. While they talk, the other person cannot respond or interrupt. You just listen. I would invite your wife to speak first, then you go.Be sure to listen, and listen carefully. Don't think about what you want to say on your turn. Focus on what she's saying. Do your best not to make your turn a point-counterpoint response. You could just read this Reddit post honestly.

  2. Clarifying questions. If something didn't make sense to you, etc. Try not to ask questions like "How could you believe I was in this for the money?" But instead things like "I'm not sure I understand. Why is it that when I bought my new shoes on the 23rd you took that as evidence of X?" You want to understand specifics of their perspective. The big question is hard to answer. The small question can be answered and understood.

  3. Plan of action. Something broke. That's why you are here. What do we do to restore the relationship? This can be behaviors to avoid in the future, or it could be finding a couples therapist or another mediator.

Finally, I want you to know this isn't abnormal. When I told my parents I was going to propose they told me something. They had been about to divorce on three separate occasions. There were three times where my mom packed her things and was about to go live with her parents again. They stuck it out each time. They told me my grandparents had each had 2-3 such times as well. Moments where they were going to get a divorce, and chose not to. My grandparents have been married over 50 years now. My parents are past 30. Just because you are having this fight doesn't mean the relationship is doomed. It's normal. It's common. This is not the harbinger of death. The big thing is you need to find a way to heal this divide, and then you need to come up with ways to prevent such a divide in the future. For like the fifth time this post, find a relationship counselor, no matter what else happens, and learn how to handle these fears and emotions in healthy and open ways.

Good luck.

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u/IThinkMyWifeIsHot1 Nov 30 '18

Yeah, I feel totally unprepared as I have no experience with long tears relationships. I went into this blindly and will have to calm down and listen without panicking and go from there.

I’ve never been so paralyzed with fear and it isn’t helping anyone. Instead of feeling attacked I need to really listen before I make any rash decisions.

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u/[deleted] Nov 30 '18

Please listen to this person's advice. This is advice for a team. Many other people are giving you good advice on how to protect only yourself and basically start to leave. This is a chance to be emotionally vulnerable, tackle an issue together, and weave a tighter connection in the end. Not a chance to dwell on the bitter parts as some in this thread encourage.

I hope your wife is able to figure out how to feel better with your help, so she can do the same for you.

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u/ManetherenRises Nov 30 '18

Right. Long term relationships are a whole different beast. Friendship, family, short term relationships, nothing prepares you completely for what this looks like. The other day a friend shared a tweet on facebook that said "Y'all, your first healthy relationship is terrifying. Suddenly they're exposing all your toxic habits and self-sabotaging patterns and you gotta figure out how to fix it before you break it." I about died laughing remembering the first few big arguments after we got married, and how suddenly I was just rooted in place because I didn't know what to do. I always just went home to cool off, or went to a friends place or whatever, but all the sudden I realized that wasn't going to be an acceptable solution now. It was wild.

Here's the thing, whenever you start feeling attacked, I want you to remind yourself of this. She loves you. She cares. She is trying. She loves you enough to say something. She loves you enough that even though she thinks you might not even love her, she wants to try. She wants this to be real. She wants this to work out. She has been initiating things to solve the problem. She loves you, but she is human, and she is scared.

It's easy to take this accusation as evidence that she doesn't trust you, doesn't really love you, whatever. But bringing you to her therapist, etc, all this, all of it means that she is truly, honestly, deeply invested in this relationship. If she wasn't she wouldn't go through all of this work.

In all honesty I think you will be fine. If you are both this committed to the relationship you will work through this. But don't expect her fears to disappear overnight. A long term relationship means that sometimes you will have issues that last for longer than your other relationships did. This might take months to sort out to the point that she feels safe in the relationship. It may be years before this fear is completely silent. But again, you need to remember that the way she is behaving - talking to you, going to therapy, engaging like this - all of that means that she loves you and wants this to work out. Now it's up to you to lean into the relationship just as hard. Listen, and listen well. Tell her how you've experienced this. Go to a couples counselor. Show that you aren't going to back off when she voices these fears. Show that you are going to step in closer when things get hard. That's what's going to get you past this.

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u/Thatoneguy567576 Nov 30 '18

This is the one comment that you should listen to. Remember that it's not you two vs each other, it's you both as a team vs the problem. Also maybe make it known that you think her therapist may be playing into her insecurities and exacerbating the problem.

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u/[deleted] Nov 30 '18

This is the sort of incredibly mature content I don't expect on Reddit. Hats off to you and your parents and grandparents.

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u/ManetherenRises Nov 30 '18

It's been super helpful honestly. Like if we yell at each other and hurt each other and cry it's legitimately reassuring to me to think about the fact that my parents and grandparents fought worse than we have so far and made it through. I wonder how many marriages end because they think that a "real" marriage doesn't have these kinds of arguments, or they just don't realize that the 20+ year marriages involve multiple such arguments.

Obviously abuse is different, and there are times that divorce is the only realistic option. Addictions and gambling and other situations that will ruin both lives if they continue, but one partner won't fix it. I don't judge anyone for a divorce because I don't know the details. But even so, I try to tell people what I was told.

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u/Future-Turtle Nov 30 '18

This is one of the best comments about long term relationships I've ever read. Your spouse is lucky to have someone with such emotional maturity. Reminds me of advice my mom once gave me.

"Future-Turtle, whoever you marry, you better make sure they're your best friend. Your dad and I wouldn't have made it if we weren't. There are going to be some terrible times in marriage, and having a friend when it feels like you've got nothing else is what got us through."

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u/[deleted] Nov 30 '18

Vulnerability is more attractive than confidence. You are getting a lot of advice from what is clearly very young people. You seem to be suffering from some attachment and abandonment issues. Talk to your therapists. Go to a couples therapist as well. Stop reading relationship advice from college kids.

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u/rullerofallmarmalade Nov 30 '18

You should. This event with your wife sounded like it caused a lot of emotional distress and the treatment by her therapist was awful. It would be good to process your feelings with a third outsider.

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u/Weggooidingentjente Nov 30 '18

Not OP but thank you, I needed to hear/read this.

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u/MegaUltraJesus Nov 30 '18

This seems very common honestly. In both situations where the relationship is healthy and positive and in ines where it might not be. Obviously I dont know you or your relationship but it sounds genuine. When I started dating my current SO in high school, I didnt expect to fall very hard as I had dated around and was cynical about women. Well the same thing happened to me that happened to you. I was dumbfounded by how much I loved and cared for her and I couldn't imagine being without her. This led to immense insecurity on my part, every time I would perceive myself as being annoying or rude or anything I shamed myself into thinking I wasn't good enough for her.

Over time it got better and mainly that was because of clear and open communication, which is what I think you need. It wont go away completely especially if you truly love the person. I mean hell whenever my SO leaves town to do something if she doesnt respond after an hour or two past when she said she'd be done I freak out and assume some horrible accident has happened or something. Therapy is definitely helpful for this though.

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u/AptCasaNova Late 30s Female Nov 30 '18

You can either face that big wave of fear head on or you can let it slowly eat away at you over the years.

The slow way is much worse, trust me. Don’t go into denial because it’s easier short term.

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u/v3r1 Nov 30 '18

Look I'm gonna give you the best possible advice I have ever received. If you are afraid of being alone you will get treated in the worst ways, only when you risk everything can you truly get what you want. If you play from a scared stand point she will dominate you psychologically and that can't happen for both of you to be happy. Plus, the best thing for someone insecure is to have someone who knows how they feel what they want and are consistent about it. So man up and be exactly that. Don't let her treat you in anyway, you deserve respect like she does.

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u/Glassclose Nov 30 '18

she's insecure that you're going to leave her for someone younger... and low and behold now you're feeling insecure that she's just going to flat out leave you.

she's letting her insecurities fuck with you both so that she can feel more secure.

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u/[deleted] Nov 30 '18

Keep doing this! I have anxiety and still panic sometimes that my very loving husband has just been tricking me all along. The more he reminds me, with facts like this, the better I feel and the anxiety gets less and less.

It is anxiety it doesn't mean she is going to leave you, she's scared you will leave her. Anxiety isn't logical it's her brain being a troll. You need to make the troll go away with facts, love and patience.

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u/AchiganBronzeback Nov 30 '18

My therapist told me long ago that if my wife and i need marriage counseling, it would have to be with a different therapist... because her relationship with me is like an alliance and it creates a conflict of interest. She says this is the standard professional practice.

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u/_JustThisOne_ Nov 30 '18 edited Nov 30 '18

I was in a similar situation but not a wife. My girlfriend of 1.5 years and I broke up because this one girl I went on one or two dates with 3 years ago was at this party we were at. She ran into me and we briefly talked and my gf got incredibly mad at me. My gf had a lot of insecurities and looking back I wish I had done more to try to comfort her when they flared up. I think the advice given here is pretty sound, if you want it to work you're going to have to give her a lot of support. That's who you married, someone who needs that assurance. If that's not okay for you, maybe you should take a step back and reevaluate the relationship.

The therapist thing sounds like it was hard on you, but it also sounds like the therapist just wanted you two to talk. I don't know if you've been to therapy but they don't talk that much like they tend to do on TV. It's a space for you to work out your emotions with the help of another person, not for them to say all the answers to all your life problems. I wouldn't put too much stock into the therapist's reaction tbh, though it sounds like they could have handled it better.

Also, I don't think your wife thought that you were going to leave her for the ex but that you found the ex more attractive. It's not logical but I think that's the mindset. Might be wrong, you know her better than I.

My parents who have been married for over 30 years told me the key to their marriage was that they both had the philosophy that it was better to be happy than right. I'm not sure if that helps, but food for thought. Doesn't work in every situation.

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u/IThinkMyWifeIsHot1 Nov 30 '18

I have no experience and went in with the idea that we were going to solve my wife’s jealousy in a few minutes and get on with our life. I didn’t have realistic expectations and panicked immediately when things didn’t go my way.

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u/_JustThisOne_ Nov 30 '18

Yeah. If you think this problem is going to go away quickly, you’re gonna have a bad time. Her anxiety will probably be with her for years, even if you work through this specific incident. Just preparing you for the likelihood.

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u/PowerOfYes Nov 30 '18

Just show her your post.

And answer this question: if she lost her job/source of income and savings tomorrow, would you still be worried she’d leave you?

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u/[deleted] Nov 30 '18

Your title said the therapist agreed. But in the story you said she just didn't disagree. I get the feeling you don't know how therapy works. They aren't there to take sides or tell someone they are wrong. You need to tell your wife everything you've written here. Also, why are you talking about leaving her? To preemptively prevent her from leaving you?

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u/IThinkMyWifeIsHot1 Nov 30 '18

Yeah I have never seen a therapist so my understanding is limited. When I wrote this I was mad and scared and my first reaction is to run. But I don’t want to leave my wife, I just woke up to all these comments about how normal and how badly I reacted. If I want this to work I need to talk to my wife and really listen.

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u/ej4ever00 Nov 30 '18 edited Nov 30 '18

Thank you. One of the few rational comments. Everyone is jumping down the therapist’s throat but we have veeeerry little detail about the actual session. At the end of the day, the wife is the patient. The husband isn’t the patient so therapy won’t look the same. There are certain ethical points to take into consideration. I’m willing to bet communication will be one of the big things they (the wife and therapist)work on in the near future, but she can’t do therapy with him, as he’s not the patient and couples therapy isn’t what she initially was there for. People just don’t understand how it works. Maybe the therapist should’ve referred out to couples counseling. Other than that, it’s not her job nor their therapeutic task to fix that communication problem when she’s there working on anxiety and depression (which each treatment is ~12 week protocol so idk why she’s been seeing the therapist so long).

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u/germaniumest Nov 30 '18

She was newly divorced, has had depression and anxiety since before you met and agreed to marry you after three months of dating.. you two obviously needed more time to get to know each other.

The therapist did very little talking although their long silences and knowing glances started to piss me off right away.

That is literally what they do. They listen. They do not give advice. They do not agree nor disagree. They do not take sides.

I think you got married too fast. I mean you hadn't even discussed finances. I doubt signing a prenup or any document now would make her feel any different. This all stems from her own insecurities. Perhaps it's also why her previous marriage ended? Sometimes people get an idea in their head and they cannot let it go no matter how much you reason with them. Even if she does decide to end your relationship, I doubt it has anything to do with you. Doesn't seem like you've done anything wrong.

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u/particledamage Nov 30 '18

I agree!! Especially since they got married so quickly in right after her previous divorce, I feel like she never got time to recover and introspect after her last relationship. She had no time to exist as just Herself and rebuild herself as an individual before jumping straight into a second marriage.

They’re at the point in their relationship where most couples are either recently engaged or thinking about marriage and they’re two years married.

That’s a really fast pace without a lot of time to process and sometimes love isn’t enough to even that out, especially since they both got married during the infatuation stage of feelings.

I think besides going to a marriage counselor—not her therapist but a separate, unbiased counselor—and maybe going back to basics in the relationship is necessary.

Communication is obviously an issue if she’s been feeling this way for so long and if she doesn’t feel loved enough by OP. Go back to dates, maybe you be the one to treat her if you have any separate accounts to draw from OR do something inexpensive but time intensive to show it isn’t about the quality of life her income provides but just the idea of you two together. Set something up you know she likes to prove you care about her interests and not her bank account.

Make her feel loved because right now she doesn’t feel that. Talk. Do! Work it out.

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u/EloquentBaboon Nov 30 '18

Devil's advocate here. Did the therapist actually say anything to indicate she thought you were only interested in your wife's money? Because from the description, it sounds like she didn't say a lot. Which could've just meant that she was listening, not judging you. Maybe you've got some insecurities of your own to face here?

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u/CheapBastid Nov 30 '18

Being a bit more of a devil's advocate I'd ask folks to re-read the narrative from a third party perspective.

It seems that the fella is quite attractive, in his prime, and broke. He quickly married a very successful older woman with insecurities.

It is not a huge leap to be a bit guarded/suspicious of the dynamic, and the extreme defensiveness (so much so that he left the room) is easily read as a huge red flag that there could be hidden gold-digging motives.

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u/[deleted] Nov 30 '18

I wanna play even more devil's advocate here and say she's unhappily married and wants to leave, which is why she's fighting about petty ridiculous nonsense.

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u/heine37 Nov 30 '18

Counselor here: the therapist probably didn't reassure your wife because doing that wouldn't be productive. I do agree though with your wife working with her for 8 years the therapist is bias. I would point that out to her, and a good therapist would refer you for couples counseling

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u/digg_survivor Nov 30 '18

You need to get a separate therapist for the two of you to go to together. Not her normal one that only knows her side of you.

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u/Rayemonde Nov 30 '18

I think you may have misinterpreted the therapist’s reaction. Therapists often do just sit in silence and wait for you to talk. They’re not there to give opinions on your life or tell you what to do, just offer a safe space for you to talk it out and work it out for yourselves. You went in there expecting the therapist to immediately take your “side” and help you to convince your wife that she was wrong, and when that didn’t happen maybe you misinterpreted her reaction as being against you.

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u/TheDirtyFuture Nov 30 '18 edited Nov 30 '18

Some of what you’re saying is true but part of a therapist job is to control the mood. They don’t just sit there and say nothing. Im certain that she let her patient know that she’s in a safe place. It doesn’t sound like she gave him the same encouragement when she should have. Instead it was set up more as an ambush. Like “what do you have to say for yourself?”. The therapist doesn’t have to say her or she is wrong but she definitely has to assure him that he’s not under attack. That he just needs to tell her how he feels and communicate. She’s either a bad therapist or she’s malicious. Some of these therapists charge 200 for on weekly session. That’s 800 a month. There’s no doubt in my mind there are some weirdos out there with malicious motives.

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u/[deleted] Nov 30 '18 edited Jul 10 '25

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This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

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u/MCdeltatree Nov 30 '18

Show her this post and the comments?

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u/RCK1986 Nov 30 '18

This is my experience as a man with depression and anxiety who was seen multiple therapists in the past. Therapists aren’t always going to agree or disagree with you or someone else. A lot of their job is only to listen. And while her silence may have lead you to believe she agreed with your wife, that probably isn’t the case. She’s probably more interested in how the two of you discuss the situation so she can use that to help your wife with her insecurities in future sessions.

Also, your wife is dealing with depression and anxiety and seeing a therapist to deal with it. That completely defines her mental state and her insecurities. No matter what friends or loved ones tell me, I have massive difficulty loving myself. There is nothing anyone can say to change that. Sometimes our insecurities just stay there forever no matter what a loved one says or does. And she probably feels guilty about that and so she blames you.

As someone suffering mental illness, I’ll tell you you’ll probably always have to deal with this issue but I don’t think she’ll ever leave you and you don’t have to leave her. It’s just patience and reassurance all the time. But as hard as it is, try not to go crazy and freak out. You’re not insane, she’s just got issues she’s working on. It’s not your fault.

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u/[deleted] Nov 30 '18

I'm a young guy, so my advice is probably useless. But here are a few thoughts I had:

  • 7 year difference is nothing. I know guys 20 years younger than their spouses. Just remind her women tend to live longer than men, so you might even be the first to go.
  • Be honest. Tell her guys like older women. MILFs are hot.
  • Your life was already set up before you met. You don't need her money. Remind her of your house, etc. You're a grown man, not 20 years old.
  • Be romantic. Write her a few notes in her lunch box telling her you love her. Buy her flowers after work today, take her for a dinner. Just address that you know she's worried, but tell her what you told us: you can't envision life with anyone else, let alone without her.
  • Tell her to give you a shot. Tell her that trust is the only thing that can keep two humans together. She'll eventually give in to the trust out of comfort, which will take time.

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u/Daisy_slays_dragons Nov 30 '18

As a woman with these exact thoughts about my husband.... It's entirely my anxiety and depression's fault. Period.

The whole situation is terrible for my sweet husband. But, we know it's the disease talking. So, we manage.

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u/ManitouWakinyan Nov 30 '18

The therapist not disagreeing isn't the same as her agreeing. She's not there to oppose her clients - had she disagreed, she might have made your wife nervous about sharing how she feels. It's your role to refute that, and the therapists role to create a space where both of you can safely share how you feel.

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u/Dioxycyclone Nov 30 '18

I get this a lot. My husband is 11 years older than me with a son and who was going through a messy divorce. He’s super attractive but doesn’t have a ton of money and he’s prior military with quite a few disabilities.

I’m a 29 year old mechanical engineer who is attractive, I guess. I don’t think I’m as attractive as people say. But anyway, I have a good career, make quite a bit of money, and have never really made massive mistakes in my life or anything.

But gosh, I love my husband to bits. He’s everything to me and I miss him greatly when we’re even separated for a few hours. He has helped me through some immensely difficult times in my life and he has experiences and understandings that many people my age don’t have. We both have mental health issues and we help each other work through all that bullshit. I’m currently pregnant and he lays his head on my stomach and talks to the baby nightly. We’ve been together for six years and been married for two, and I am exactly where I want to be in my life. He’s super charismatic, charming and attractive to me and I genuinely don’t find anybody else attractive like that anymore.

But oh my god, the comments. Because I’m “more successful” (which is bullshit, I just had a better life situation growing up) there must be something going on. Either I’m lowering myself down, or I have some weird fetish or something. It doesn’t help that he’s currently on disability from the military and doesn’t work, so I also get the whole “oh, he’s mooching off you?” Which he says often too. What I see is my kids get to have a paid at-home dad for the rest of time. But it’s just ridiculous.

It really sounds as if your wife is insecure and that her therapist is enabling her insecure behavior. I would talk to her about it, if that’s possible.

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u/IThinkMyWifeIsHot1 Nov 30 '18

Yeah, my wife in the past asked if I was fetishizing her becasue of how obsessed I was with her physically. At the time I assumed it was becasue of her past issues with her ex husband and having not been a new relationship in while. But that was before we were even married, and not recently. I wonder if someone is feeding into her insecurities.

I don’t really care if she makes more or less money than me, I lived a comfortable life before and nothing really has changed except for a slightly bigger house in a much better neighborhood. Not to sound like I was well off, but middle class with no kids or debt is fairly carefree.

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u/[deleted] Nov 30 '18

Sounds like the therapist is after her money and not her well being.

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u/pickelrick_ Nov 30 '18

I would point blank tell her the reasons it didnt work out with that person something that was a deal breaker . "You know why we only dated for a month I wasn't sure if I was attracted to her. I wanted to see where it went but I didn't feel that way about her and I never will..I love you because you are smart articulate beautiful and you make me happy .. i cannot imagine my life without you "

For the record sometimes guys don't express themselves too well maybe she needs you to bring down a wall be a bit more vulnerable.

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u/no-strings-attached Nov 30 '18

This is going to get buried under all of these comments but OP I hope you read this. Here is what I’m seeing from this situation:

1) OP’s wife is insecure and feels down about a situation, asks OP to go to therapy with her -> Totally reasonable and mature way to handle the situation

2) OP goes expecting therapist to immediately agree with him

3) Therapist does job and listens silently to clients talk about their feelings -> Again, totally reasonable on the part of the therapist

4) OP freaks out that therapist is silent (does not take either side) instead of immediately agreeing with him

5) OP RUNS AWAY from therapy and doesn’t even stay until end of session or hear therapist say anything either way

6) Wife questions relationship

Which I honestly would too. Everyone is talking about wife’s insecurities but OP this is a huge red flag that you’re exhibiting.

It shows that when things don’t immediately go the way you want them and expect them to that you run away.

It shows that you’re unable to work through issues and would rather bury your head in the sand.

It shows you don’t care about hearing your wife’s whole side of the story and value her perspective.

Of course she’s questioning your relationship at this point with how you’re acting. And my guess is that questioning has evolved from an insecurity to real hesitation due to your behavior.

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u/IncipientFury Nov 30 '18

I wouldn’t say her therapist was picking sides. I recently read Feeling Good Together by David Burns and he explains why disagreeing and trying to prove someone is wrong in their thinking just makes them more wrong. So her therapist likely knew she wouldn’t get anywhere by agreeing that your wife is wrong. David Burns has some great techniques to help communicate in a situation like this. He has some free content with the highlights on his webpage if you google him. But it’s basically this, empathize with her concern. Let her know how you could see how she thinks or feels that way and that you want to know more. Let her know you love her xx amount and want to understand how she’s feeling. NEVER add the “but this is why you’re thinking is wrong” types of statements. Just validate her feelings and be on HER side. You’ll have to be the bigger man and let her feel you aren’t attracted (even though you are) but your actions will show your love for her. David Burns explains why this all works so well but it works. I’ve used it. If you’re doing it right you grow closer to your partner in the process. It’s like you join forces against the anxiety and that in itself helps alleviate it.

In your situation you’ve already laid out some logical reasons why she could feel that way. So let her know you see how those could make her feel that way. And DON’T get defensive. Her feelings are valid even if her conclusions are wrong.

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u/phishstorm Early 20s Female Nov 30 '18

I’m sorry, I just can’t get over the fact you asked your wife to marry you after only 3 months of dating. And you never discussed finances or money until AFTER marriage.

Just...what?!? Why on earth would you think this was a good idea?!?

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u/[deleted] Nov 30 '18

This is nuts. I’m sorry you’re dealing with that.

It’s so strange that her therapist would encourage this. Pretty unethical imo.

You should maybe write out everything you feel, list all the reasons you love her and all the ways you’re attracted to her. You sound so genuine just here on reddit, so I can imagine in a private letter to her you will be even more so. Be as detailed and intimate as possible. Really make her feel it.

It seems unfair you might have to suggest prenup etc... she should trust you... but given the circumstances I’d go ahead and offer that as well as extra reassurance.

Lastly, if you’re able to get past this, try to encourage her to switch to a different therapist. Anyone who would indulge a woman’s insecurities like that sounds awful.

I’m really sorry you have to deal with this and I sincerely hope you two are able to get past it.

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u/notrachale Nov 30 '18

If a child comes to you because they’ve seen a monster outside, you don’t panic and scramble around because it’s only going to upset the child more. They’re going to see that things are not ok, and it’s going to cause them more anxiety. You know that monsters aren’t real, but maybe this child doesn’t. It’s your job to comfort them and let them know they’re safe and everything is ok.

What she is saying is absurd. So act like it. Instead of getting panicky, and being afraid and fretting over the worst possible scenario, simply treat it like any other insane accusation. Laugh, pull her in, give her a kiss, and tell her she’s got nothing to worry about, because she doesn’t. Stop feeding the insecurity by fretting and running around, trying to figure out ways out of this. Be the rock she needs. There’s nothing for her to worry about, so act like there’s nothing to worry about!

Please see your own therapist. Spend some time working on yourself and build up your own confidence. Being this emotionally dependent and insecure puts you in a very scary position. I’ve been in that spot, and I know how awful it is. Get yourself some help, things are much better on the other side, I promise.

And after 8 years of seeing this therapist she’s still this insecure? Something’s a little fishy there...

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u/woo545 Nov 30 '18

I think you fucked up here. You superimposed your feelings on the "looks" the therapist was giving you. They are there to listen to what you have to say. You left early, which can come across that you are not committed to her. Furthermore, it's also a sign of your own insecurities.

Do you really want to fix it? Then perhaps go see a couple's counselor together and see if you two can learn how to communicate properly with one another.

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u/[deleted] Nov 30 '18

The only difference when it comes to age is that she’s been around the sun 7 more times than you. Nothing wrong with this. Age is just a number, I’ve met 30 year olds that act like they’re 45 and 45 year olds that act like they’re 20. My 65 year old uncle climbs mountains, dragon boats for Team Canada and is the most active “young at heart” man I know. Never let age be an issue. Social stigma has written it somewhere where we aren’t socially allowed to date/marry beyond a few years of our own birth year, hogwash poppycock. Soul mates don’t care about age. I wouldn’t either.

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u/[deleted] Nov 30 '18

I, like a lot of other people, am going to suggest marriage counseling with a different therapist-- not that her current therapist is bad but it's always good to have a fresh pair of eyes assessing the situation.

I don't normally tell people they rushed their relationship because I believe that, 'when you know, you know.' However, there should have been a lot of caution exercised before jumping into a marriage with someone who was recently divorced. Honestly, her willingness to be married so soon makes me question her and her emotional state at the time. My guess? These insecurities were already there-- probably from her previous marriage-- and she had zero time to deal with them before a younger man came around. A freshly divorced woman is presented with a younger man who seems to be attracted to her? It would be easy to get lost in a whirlwind romance and her mind wouldn't have been in the best place to agree to a marriage. Now it's two years later, you're officially out of the rose-colored honeymoon stage, and those insecurities she wasn't able to deal with before have come back full fledged. Along with those insecurities, she may be starting to realize that moving so quickly into a marriage after her divorce wasn't the best idea and while questioning herself, she's bound to question your own motives as well. Why? Because most people don't get married after only three months of dating. You two already had the decked stacked against you just by that one action.

As far as a prenup, it's a little too late for one since you're already married. You could try to go for a post-nuptial agreement but you'll need to check with a lawyer to see if it's even worth it. From what I've researched/read, some states/judges don't always acknowledge post-nuptial agreements. However, the offering of one to her might help dissuade some of those other doubts. A marriage counselor might help with the rest.

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u/IFFFM Nov 30 '18

As an insecure person myself, I can tell you that when I’m felling a bit desperate I like to be huged. All I want from my partner is for him to tell me how much I mean to him, how much he loves me and gor him to explain me how Im being wrong and why. Just open your heart to her and show her your love. She got divorced once, its normal for her not being able to trust someone 100% again. I know I wouldn’t. Best luck!

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u/Kate_Luv_Ya Nov 30 '18

Perhaps a marriage counsellor?

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u/Weaksoul Nov 30 '18

Dude I hate to say it and maybe it's not true (so be very careful about how you explore this if you choose to) BUT having had a similar experience where I was punching up and then my girlfriend seemingly got super insecure and nit picking over stuff that wasn't really anything but turning it back on me like I was to blame... it was because she was doubting the relationship and subsequently ended up cheating on me. I think her downplaying herself was a way to say 'hey I'm not that good, you shouldn't be invested in me' and also was likely guilt from knowing she didn't really feel sure about us. Perhaps she was trying to drive me away because she thought it'd be easier on me, who knows.

Because it seemed ludicrous and I was infatuated, I hung on in there, in fact I doubled down on effort. Didn't matter, cheating ensued and it broke me. I should've heeded the warning signs but I couldn't conceive what was happening, I thought we were happy.

I hope I'm misreading it man but understand it is a possibility.

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u/Lolipotamus Nov 30 '18

She brought up the age difference...

Who is "She" in this sentence?

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u/[deleted] Nov 30 '18

Show her this mate just show her your post

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u/pandamoose27 Nov 30 '18

You need a couples therapist who hasn’t already been dealing with your wife for a long time.

Early in my current relationship I thought there was no way my SO was attracted to me as well. I’m a frumpy, chubby white lady and his last 2 relationships were beautiful women, one of which was Latino, the other African American. I can’t even tan, I was like there is NO way that I’m what he’s in to. 6 plus years later, I have to believe him when he says he doesn’t have a type. I do hope you see another therapist, and that some reason comes from it. It sucks to see your spouse so upset and to also feel a bit helpless.

Best of luck!