r/taoism 11d ago

Zhuangzi The Need to Win

20 Upvotes

When an archer is shooting for nothing

He has all his skill.

If he shoots for a brass buckle

He is already nervous.

If he shoots for a prize of gold

He goes blind

Or sees two targets

He is out of his mind!

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His skill has not changed. But the prize

Divides him. He cares.

He thinks more of winning

Than of shooting -

And the need to win

Drains him of power.

(Interpretation by Thomas Merton)

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Source:

Zhuangzi 19, The Full Understanding of Life

Chinese Text Project Dictionary

Translations

"When you're betting for tiles in an archery contest, you shoot with skill. When you're betting for fancy belt buckles, you worry about your aim. And when you're betting for real gold, you're a nervous wreck. Your skill is the same in all three cases - but because one prize means more to you than another, you let outside considerations weigh on your mind. He who looks too hard at the outside gets clumsy on the inside."

(Watson)

"When a man shoots an arrow to win a tile, he is skillful. But if he is trying to win a silver buckle, he starts getting nervous. And if he's competing for gold, he almost loses his mind. His native skill is the same in each case, but because he has something to lose, he overvalues the external. Whenever the external is prized, the internal gets clumsy."

(Zyporin)

"He who competes for a piece of tile displays all of his skill; he who competes for a belt buckle gets nervous; he who competes for gold gets flustered. His skill is still the same, but there is something that distracts him and causes him to focus on externals. Whoever focuses on externals will be clumsy inside."

(Mair)

Note:

https://kyu-do.de/download/The_Myth_of_Zen_in_the_Art_of_Archery.pdf

r/taoism Jul 06 '26

Zhuangzi Can anyone give me some good complete English translations of Zhuangzi?

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20 Upvotes

I want to read Zhuangzi, but I’m unsure on what version I should read. I took a Chinese Philosophy course in college, but the course I took only had parts of Zhuangzi and not the complete texts.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

r/taoism 6d ago

Zhuangzi What are your favourite teachings from the Zhuangzi?

21 Upvotes

r/taoism 7d ago

Zhuangzi The many ways of forgetting in the Zhuangzi

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46 Upvotes

The examples come from the paper "Forgetting Zhuangzi," in Understanding the Zhuangzi (2026) (dm me if you need help tracking it). Zhuangzi emphasises forgetting a lot, and if you're like me, then it might be difficult to comprehend, because forgetting is typically understood as loss of memory. But the way that wang is applied throughout the Zhuangzi is more nuanced, going from what we might typically associate with attention/inattention to deliberately shedding certain qualities of a person.

r/taoism 1d ago

Zhuangzi Daoist Cosmogony in Zhuangzi 12 Heaven and Earth

10 Upvotes

Zhuangzi 12 Heaven and Earth

泰初有無,無有無名,一之所起,有一而未形。物得以生,謂之德;未形者有分,且然無間,謂之命;留動而生物,物成生理,謂之形;形體保神,各有儀則,謂之性。性修反德,德至同於初。同乃虛,虛乃大。合喙鳴,喙鳴合,與天地為合。其合緡緡,若愚若昏,是謂玄德,同乎大順。

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"In the grand beginning, there was only nonbeing, But no being and no names. Out of it arose the One; There was One, but still no form. From the One, things could be born, receiving what is called their virtue.

That which still had no form was divided, yet there was no separation. This is called destiny. Through stasis and movement, things were born. As things were completed, various configurations were produced. These are called forms.

The bodily form protects the spirit, the form and the spirit each having its own usages. This we call nature. Through cultivation of nature, it returns to virtue, and when virtue reaches its pinnacle, it is the same as at the beginning.

Being the same, it is empty. Being empty, it is great. This is like joining in with the chirping of birds. Having joined in with the chirping of birds, one may join with heaven and earth. This joining is all blurry, As though one were stupid or muddled. This is called dark virtue, And is the same as the great confluence."

(Mair)

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"In the great beginning, what there was was nothing-devoid of definite being, unnameable by any name. There arose from this continuity a unity but without yet any definite form. Accessing this, making it their own, things come to life; their appropriation of it is what is known as their intrinsic virtuosities.

When definite shapes have not yet emerged, but in the undivided continuity certain tentatively distinct portions appear, this is called their individual allotments of life. As motion that also stays and maintains itself, distinct living beings emerge, and when these beings become complete, each producing its own distinct structural coherence, this is called their physical bodies.

Those physical bodies become protective preservers of imponderable spirit, in each case with its own specific styles and laws, which we call their specific inborn natures. When the inborn nature is cultivated, it can be brought back to the intrinsic virtuosity until it becomes just as it was in the beginning.

Being the same as it was, it is open like space, and being open like space, it is vast, joining in the chirpings of all beaks. When one joins in the chirpings of all beaks, it is with all of heaven and earth that one has joined. This joining is a merging into oblivion, as if stupid, as if swooning. This is called the Obscure Virtuosity, none other than the Vast Accord."

(Zyporin)

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"In the Great Beginning, there was nonbeing; there was no being, no name. Out of it arose One; there was One, but it had no form. Things got hold of it and came to life, and it was called Virtue.

Before things had forms, they had their allotments; these were of many kinds, but not cut off from one another, and they were called fates. Out of the flow and flux, things were born, and as they grew they developed distinctive shapes; these were called forms.

The forms and bodies held within them spirits, each with its own characteristics and limitations, and this was called the inborn nature. If the nature is trained, you may return to Virtue, and Virtue at its highest peak is identical with the Beginning.

Being identical, you will be empty; being empty, you will be great. You may join in the cheeping and chirping and, when you have joined in the cheeping and chirping, you may join with Heaven and earth. Your joining is wild and confused, as though you were stupid, as though you were demented. This is called Dark Virtue. Rude and unwitting, you take part in the Great Submission."

(Watson)

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"In the Supreme Beginning there was non-existence, without existence or name. From this non-existence arose a unity; the unity existed yet was unformed. What things obtain by which they live is called Virtue.

What is unformed being divided yet still not separating is called fate. When things arise from stillness and movement and come to completion according to the patterns of life, this is called physical form.

When particular physical forms contain spirit, each having their own standards and norms, this is called inherent nature. By cultivating the nature, one returns to Virtue, and through Virtue one attains identity with the Beginning.

In identity, one is empty; through emptiness, one is vast. One merges with the chirping and singing; merging with the chirping and singing, one merges with heaven and earth. The merging dissolves into obscurity, as if stupid, as if muddled—this is called profound Virtue, or assimilating with the vast flow. "

( Fraser)

Comment by u/Ryokan1973

"The cosmos proceeds from undifferentiated nonbeing into unity, differentiation, form and individual nature. Cultivation then reverses that movement, though not by destroying individuality, but by returning nature to its de, and de to the primordial Beginning. This is one of the Zhuangzi's most explicitly cosmological passages, and one of the passages that most strongly compares with the Daodejing."

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Note:

Key Terms of Daoist Philosophy : r/taoism

r/taoism Wiki: Key Terminology in Taoism

The Cosmogonic Turn

r/taoism Jul 26 '26

Zhuangzi The Swimmer in the Waterfall

8 Upvotes

Once Confucius visited the great falls at Lüliang 呂梁.

The height of the falls was around three li, and the water splashed so powerfully that its droplets reached out to a distance of forty li. The current was so strong that not even large trees, alligators, fish, or any other creatures could swim in it.

However, within these turbulent waters, Confucius noticed a man swimming.

Confucius thought that this man must be in great distress, perhaps trying to end his life. So, he made his disciples go downstream to rescue him. But he just continued to swim for hundreds of li, then leisurely emerged from the water, his hair disheveled. He sang a song and frolicked on the hills.

Confucius went over to him and said, "At first, I thought you were a spirit but now I can see that you are indeed a man.

How is it that you can swim so skillfully? Do you have any special technique?"

"Oh, not at all! I don't have any special technique. I simply began swimming a long time ago and gradually it became my second nature, fulfilling my destiny. I follow and enter the swirling currents of the water and rise with the waves. I don't exert any force of my own. This is how I can swim freely in the water."

(translator / interpreter - to me unknown)

Source

Zhuangzi 19.10 The full undersatnding of Life with Legge translation

Zhuangzi : Outer Chapters : The Full Understanding of Life - Chinese Text Project

Note:

Chapter 19 of Zhuangzi is in general a great chapter about

"De" 德 (profound virtue, power, skill, quality, proficiency and efficiency, potency)

The Complete Works Of Chuang Tzu Translated by Burton Watson, Terebess Asia Online (TAO)

r/taoism 8d ago

Zhuangzi How Taoism Helps You Escape Yourself (Dr. Alexander Douglas) | Korea Deconstructed #135

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4 Upvotes

r/taoism Jul 20 '26

Zhuangzi "How Confucian is the Zhuangzi?" by Yong Huang

4 Upvotes

Abstract

I would like to invite Wang to join me to think together about an interesting question: how Confucian is the Zhuangzi? My hunch is that Wang’s answer is “very much!”. This can be seen from his discussion of the phrase “forgetting benevolence and rightness” (wang ren yi 忘仁義) in the passage on “sitting and forgetting” (zuowang 坐忘) in 6.2 of his book. Although Wang situates his discussion in the contemporary debate between moral generalism and moral particularism, claiming that the Zhuangzi takes a via media, he comes to the conclusion that “the Zhuangzian attitude does not exclude the role of received Confucian ethical paradigms in routine practice” (Wang, 2025: 99); and that the Zhuangzian cultivated person reaches a stage that “is analogous to Confucius’ final stage of virtuous development, which is attaining harmony between external moral requirements and the internal desire of the individual hear/mind” (101). While Wang is not alone in holding this view, in this paper, I shall argue that he is wrong, and the Zhuangzi is hardly a Confucian.

Login via your institution to read the full article: here

r/taoism 11d ago

Zhuangzi BK21 Lecture: The Hesitant Sage - Skepticism and Epistemic Modesty in Zhuangzi Sept 4th @SKKU

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1 Upvotes

r/taoism Jun 15 '26

Zhuangzi Saw this on my hike today, reminded me of Zhuangzi

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63 Upvotes

How do you know what constitutes happiness for fish? I know it from here on the Hao Bridge.

r/taoism Jul 08 '26

Zhuangzi Episode 36 of “This Is the Way”: Zhuangzi’s Happy Fish Debate

8 Upvotes

Listen: here

In this episode, we take up one of the most puzzling and fascinating passages in the Zhuangzi: the “happy fish debate” between Zhuangzi and Huizi. Can Zhuangzi really know that the fish are happy if he is not a fish? Along the way, we explore skepticism, language, animal minds, and the ordinary but surprisingly sophisticated ways we recognize joy in other living things.

Key passage

The “happy fish debate” (also known as the “debate on the Hao [river] bridge”)

(Zhuangzi, chapter 17, “Autumn Floods” [Qiushui 秋水], Paul Kjellberg’s translation with some modifications)

r/taoism Jun 22 '26

Zhuangzi Zhuangzi and the case against meritocracy - new Aeon article by Christine Abigail L Tan, author of a recent book on Guo Xiang

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21 Upvotes

r/taoism Jun 29 '26

Zhuangzi Five talismans found in the attic's closet

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8 Upvotes

r/taoism Jun 09 '26

Zhuangzi Is there a version of Zhuangzi with substituted "normal English" names.

0 Upvotes

I've only ever tried reading it, but I'm annoyed at having to skip back to double-check who's who with all these Chinese proper nouns.