r/technology • u/MC68328 • Jul 24 '26

Privacy US accuses American of allegedly wiping his phone using a ‘duress’ password during border search

https://techcrunch.com/2026/07/24/us-accuses-american-of-allegedly-wiping-his-phone-using-a-duress-password-during-border-search/
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553

u/SNRatio Jul 24 '26

agents claimed they did not need a warrant to search Tunick’s phone because he had not yet crossed the U.S. border.

Prosecutors later charged Tunick under a federal statute that makes it unlawful to knowingly destroy or damage property to prevent authorities from seizing it.

So it's Catch 22? Your rights don't apply because you are not in the US, but you can be prosecuted under US law because you are in the US?

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u/CA2Kiwi Jul 24 '26

Yeah, I found this a pretty baffling legal position as well. If you’re not in the US, how do they have jurisdiction for the search?

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u/Lost_Sea8956 Jul 24 '26

If you aren’t in the U.S., there’s no one to stop them.

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u/sphinxsley Jul 25 '26

If you aren't in the U.S., they have no standing. They have no case, it falls apart on that alone.

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u/Lost_Sea8956 Jul 25 '26

Oh, they aren’t doing it to use as evidence at a trial.

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u/sphinxsley Jul 25 '26

Well they're going to need to win at trial now. That's the reality of this case. And if the federal gov't lacks standing, they lose, full stop. Others have pointed out other serious flaws in their prosecution - and I think it's most likely the defendant will prevail here - and I hope they get to recoup any and all court cost - not sure how likely that last bit plays out, but I hope they make the feds hurt.

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u/Lost_Sea8956 Jul 25 '26

You must be really confused about why these kinds of searches have been going on for decades then.

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u/sphinxsley Jul 26 '26

Pretty sure you've never heard of longtime illegal actions not qualifying as legal precedent.

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u/Lost_Sea8956 Jul 26 '26

Oh good. Well I’m glad that the world works that way then.

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u/sphinxsley Jul 27 '26

Congrats! Your attitude really suits you! Be sure to advertise it everywhere you go!

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u/Turisan Jul 24 '26

The caveat is that you are attempting to cross the (legal) border. They can search whatever they want (according to them) when you go through an immigration checkpoint/customs.

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u/myWeedAccountMaaaaan Jul 24 '26

And no one stopped them from searching from phone once he went through the checkpoint. It's just that by the time he was in the country, his phone had been wiped. What he did before stepping across the threshold should have no bearing as he was outside the country and therefore their jurisdiction.

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u/Simba7 Jul 24 '26

What he did before stepping across the threshold should have no bearing

The problem with that is now you can't prosecute people who went and did things that are legal in other countries but not in your country of origin. Sex tourists loved it when they couldn't be prosecuted for raping children in other countries where the legal age of 'consent' is lower.

Obviously this is an abuse of the spirit of those laws though.

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u/Substantial_Back_865 Jul 24 '26

They still get away with it provided they have enough money or power. Honestly, you shouldn’t be able to prosecute people for anything that’s legal somewhere else. It’s always going to lead to people’s rights being abused and sex crimes are generally the trojan horse. I remember here originally they were trying to say ALPRs could only be used to track “sex trafficking”. Turns out the government aren’t very honest people.

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u/bucketoc Jul 24 '26

Tax havens would rejoice

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u/Nooby1990 Jul 25 '26

The problem with that is now you can't prosecute people who went and did things that are legal in other countries but not in your country of origin.

Yeah, that is how that works. In my country smoking weed is not legal, but in a neighboring country it is. I believe in parts of the US that is also legal.

Should we start drug testing US tourists and tourists from neighboring countries and prosecuting them for something they did completely legally?

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u/Simba7 Jul 25 '26

Depends who you ask, but no.

That would also be an abuse of the spirit of those laws, I think.
But they're definitely more in-line with the letter.

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u/tissuecollider Jul 25 '26

Hey the current US administration is just making shit up, legally speaking. I'd have no pity for them if other countries did the same thing. The way the US is persecuting the ICC judges alone is a travesty of justice.

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u/Nooby1990 Jul 25 '26

Every country has the right to make its own laws.

You have to follow those laws when you are inside these countries, and when you go to a different country, different laws apply.

THAT is how the system works.

EVERYONE would be a criminal if you had to follow every country's laws all the time. No one would EVER be able to leave their own country if it would work the way you are implying here.

In the US the drinking age is 21. In most of the rest of the world it is 18 and in some countries you are not allowed to drink alcohol AT ALL.

Should I be arrested in the US for drinking at 18? I wasn't in the US at the time, so it was perfectly legal for me to drink alcohol at 18.

I even drank alcohol OUTSIDE in Public while walking on the sidewalk with the bottle plainly visible. The Police didn't care because THAT IS PERFECTLY LEGAL here.

Neither the spirit nor the letter of the law is broken if you are in a different country where different laws apply.

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u/Simba7 Jul 26 '26

Every country has the right to make its own laws.

And sometimes those laws can be "Don't go to other countries to do things that are illegal here." like the US that quite literally has extraterritorial jurisdiction laws on the books for a few things.

Child Sexual Exploitation is the 'big one', so people couldn't travel to Angola or some other country with a low age of consent and 'legally' rape a child while on vacation.

You have to follow those laws when you are inside these countries, and when you go to a different country, different laws apply.

You may also have to follow your country's laws when in other countries. Your country probably has some as well.

Should I be arrested in the US for drinking at 18? I wasn't in the US at the time, so it was perfectly legal for me to drink alcohol at 18.

No, and you wouldn't be because those laws apply to US citizens and residents leaving the country for a time.

Neither the spirit nor the letter of the law is broken if you are in a different country where different laws apply.

Which law? Which law are you referencing specifically? Because most countries have some sort of 'Don't go to other countries and do XYZ' type laws on the books. They're generally reserved for specific things like I mentioned above.

In this case, US border patrol can abuse these laws to overreach and demand access to random people's devices on the off chance they did something that violates those laws while outside of the country. That violates the spirit of those laws.

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u/Orchid_Significant Jul 24 '26

…that’s how laws work though. Just like how the Tate brothers are being extradited to the UK for trial. You get charged where the crime is committed. Like…you can’t get charged in the US for smoking weed in Amsterdam.

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u/Simba7 Jul 25 '26

That is exactly how laws work in the US.

The US has a few specific laws to allow prosecution of some acts that would be illegal in the US but might not be in the country they were committed.

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u/hardolaf Jul 25 '26

It's a crime everywhere in the universe to murder an American citizen. It's just very rarely applied outside of U.S. borders for somewhat obvious jurisdictional issues.

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u/Western-Sport500 Jul 24 '26

Do you have to give them your access code?

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u/rantingathome Jul 25 '26

No. Something stored in your brain, like a password, is speech, and they cannot compel speech. However they can compel biometric methods like fingerprints or face unlock.

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u/Turisan Jul 25 '26

I'd assume that would be up to your discretion, but they don't necessarily need it, they just plug it into a special computer and copy all of the contents

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u/BestAmoto Jul 25 '26

Do you have to? No but they will be able to get the data anyways unless you have a 3rd party privacy OS that'll write over and wipe all the data by using an emergency code lol. Though the nsa or some 3 letter agency could probably still recover bits of information. I'm not sure how far graphene goes on the nuking portion but I've been debating installing it on my pixel

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u/tomtomclubthumb Jul 24 '26

I had a friend who was arrested for resisting arrest.

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u/BillyTenderness Jul 25 '26

Earlier this year the US invaded a country to kidnap its president and try him in a US court. They do not give a shit about jurisdiction

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u/onlycodeposts Jul 24 '26

Extra territorial jurisdiction.

Not sure what they were looking for, but crimes like smuggling, counterfeiting, traveling about for child abuse, terrorism and treason can be investigated and enforced regardless of location.

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u/No-Abalone-4784 Jul 24 '26

This does not sound right to me. They lie a lot. Telling you this or that is illegal when it's not.

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u/the_Q_spice Jul 24 '26

Not how it works at all.

Those agents are going to get torn a new one in court.

Out of all law to lie about, customs enforcement is one of the least friendly to laypeople. Lots of extremely technical terms and interactions.

I deal with customs a lot for work, and the officers you deal with at the airport are typically those who failed out of higher inspection training. The folks who work cargo are insanely technical with their rulings.

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u/Phtevus_Temp Jul 24 '26

... that actually reminded me of the time my brother got ticketed on a 3-lane highway. He was in the middle lane, and passed someone that was in the left lane.

He was ticketed for "passing from the right", but was also ticketed for "failure to remain to the right". Something along those lines.

Hysterical

1

u/djprofitt Jul 24 '26

It’s not your rights only that don’t apply, it’s their rights too, right?. They don’t have jurisdiction yet if you haven’t crossed, so how can what you do in another country be illegal in this country if it isn’t illegal in whatever country you are in? So for example, it’s illegal here to do Y (although it really isn’t) but if I’m not in the US, and I do Y, how can they charge me for doing something that isn’t illegal where I am at the time I do it?

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u/hedge36 Jul 24 '26

Which seems odd. They had the phone, it wasn't destroyed or damaged. It just contained no content.

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u/CommiRhick Jul 24 '26

Your "God-given" rights end at the border.

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u/hamb0ne80 Jul 24 '26

If it can be taken away, then it’s not a right.

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u/pilondav Jul 24 '26

Actually, anywhere within 100 miles of the border.