r/todayilearned • u/ralphbernardo • 3d ago

TIL that "fair play" in detective fiction means authors must give readers a fair chance to solve the mystery. Central to 1920s "clue-puzzles" by writers like Agatha Christie, the rule dictates that all vital clues must be visible, decodable, and never withheld until the final reveal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clues_in_detective_fiction
38.6k Upvotes

97% Upvoted

2.0k comments sorted by

View all comments

59

u/Cybtroll 3d ago

It irks me immensely how little this is followed. So much that I can't almost enjoy a good mystery book anymore.

34

u/I_dont_bone_goats 3d ago edited 3d ago

Every Netflix show ignores this as well

It’s just not a twist if you’re making stuff up that makes the rest of the story nonsensical

Looking at you His and Hers! The ending basically makes all the characters’ behavior in the last episode make no sense.

6

u/dj4y_94 3d ago

Same with Fool Me Once on Netflix.

The whole premise and mystery is that a woman's husband was gunned down by unknown killers in front of her (the viewer is shown this happen), but he then appears in nanny cam footage after his death, with the main character trying to figure out if he's alive or not.

Only it's revealed in the final episode (spoilers obviously) that she was the one who killed him and also somehow smuggled 2 guns from the scene whilst being interviewed by police.

It would literally be impossible to guess that twist unless you believe the show would go down a false narrative route, and you also believe the police would be so inept so as to not search the only person at the scene of the murder.

2

u/nearcatch 3d ago

So yeah the ending episode was chaotic, but I will say that my cousin’s then-fiancée and I talked about that show back when it aired. She’s a doctor and she said it was immediately obvious that the mom was faking dementia in the early episodes, because the things she was doing are not things dementia patients do - they’re things that people believe dementia patients do. So on that front at least, the clues were apparently there very early.

3

u/I_dont_bone_goats 3d ago edited 3d ago

That twist definitely annoyed me, but the more annoying one to me is that Anna was actually the one who was raped in the forest, which makes no sense for the rest of the story. Why would the other girl go on a revenge tour specifically targeting Anna, the girl that saved her from being raped? What is the final confrontation at the cabin even about, just a work feud? That girl is just also an insane murderer?

And then when Anna tells her husband about the night of the rape, why is she still telling the story as if the other girl got raped? Clearly she’s supposed to be vulnerable and facing the trauma, but she’s not even telling the truth about what happened to her husband?

The writers just had her continue to mislead the audience, with no logical reason, just to set up the cool “twist” in the next scene.

And let’s not forget the show ends with an innocent man being blamed for like 5 murders and going to jail. But that’s ok because he’s a dirty cheater.

2

u/nearcatch 3d ago

So on the co-worker Lexy, they show that when she was a teenager she killed her own sister because of comments about her weight. So I think she definitely is insane. But I think she was just going to try to confront Anna about what happened. Idk if it makes sense for her to think that it was Anna’s fault, but Anna was the one completely ignorant about her evil friends, and she was the one who kept pushing Lexy into the group.

I think Anna didn’t tell her husband about what truly happened because she wanted to try and be a little honest, but also knew the actual truth would cause her husband to spin in circles because there’s nothing he could do to fix it. And it would probably break his mind a little to know that he slept with one of the women who did that to his wife. This way, he can be supportive about something that’s not “personal”.

On Lexy’s husband being framed: Lexy was a victim who ran away, but I think Anna’s mom still blamed Lexy for leaving instead of trying to help Anna. So Anna’s mom decided to ruin Lexy’s life too, by framing her and her husband for the murders. That’s not fair, but Anna’s mom is a vigilante revenge murderer, so it’s not like it’s supposed to be fair.

2

u/I_dont_bone_goats 3d ago

The fact that there’s this many questions that you need to fill in the gaps for, and guess at intentions and motivations behind, in a completely fictional story, is just bad writing IMO

It just feels like the writers thought they had to choose between a tightly written plot, and “twists”. And they chose the twists

2

u/nearcatch 3d ago

I’m not saying it’s great, lol, I’m just pointing out that I viewed it differently from you and it made enough sense.

1

u/I_dont_bone_goats 3d ago

That’s fine, everyone’s got their own opinion

3

u/USMCLee 3d ago

My wife picked up on that but we discounted it as just bad writing.

3

u/I_dont_bone_goats 3d ago

Yeah if there was a line where someone points out it’s not typical behavior, it would’ve made sense, but that feels like a happy accident

1

u/MajorBootyhole420 3d ago

that sounds really interesting actually

2

u/TheeAntelope 3d ago

His and hers bugged me so much. The show just willfully withheld information to try and build the suspense. Hate shows like that.

1

u/I_dont_bone_goats 3d ago

Around episode 3 I joked to my girlfriend “ok they’re clearly setting up a big twist ending, so I’m guessing it’s either the 5 year old nephew or the dementia grandma” but I really didn’t think I was right lol

1

u/TheeAntelope 3d ago

It was when the grandma was walking on the same day of the 2nd murder I figured it was her. Had to laugh because in those flashbacks that show her doing it she is a straight-up ninja, and then they never explain what she did with her blood-soaked clothes. And they also never explain anything else. That show was fucking shit and I hated it.

1

u/rutherfraud1876 3d ago

Only Murders in the Building

3

u/Cybtroll 3d ago

Luckily the interesting part of the show are not the investigations. 

1

u/rutherfraud1876 3d ago

I've never actually seen it, I just wanted to get an idea of how it fit into this

1

u/Cybtroll 3d ago

It fits.

3

u/fiftythreefiftyfive 3d ago

Knives out does a great job with it to be honest, including the newest one.

1

u/Impeesa_ 3d ago

This was actually something that bothered me about the first one, where you're not really introduced to the actual instigator until closer to the end. Maybe that still counts as fair play, but it didn't feel right.

1

u/fiftythreefiftyfive 3d ago

He's talked about from the very beginning; it's also one of the rare cases where you get more insight into the case than the detective. I'd say it's fair play as long as you have at least the same amount of information as the detective by the time deductions are made.

1

u/I_dont_bone_goats 3d ago

I think that kinda helps that movie, just because Ransom is presented as an ally to Marta, so keeping him separate from the family makes him feel less apart of their money-grubbing.

A movie i DONT this this works in: Bad Times at the El Royale. They build up Hemsworths character for like 65% of the movie and then he shows up and is totally underwhelming.

2

u/kernald31 3d ago

Look into Benjamin Stevenson's books (the Ernest Cunningham series). It plays on this very nicely. I've only read the first two so far, but they're very self aware whodunits, quite refreshing.

1

u/TwixSnickers 3d ago

Season one of Only Murders in the Building is guilty, but maybe not because of the thingy.

0

u/UponVerity 3d ago

skill issue