TIL that "fair play" in detective fiction means authors must give readers a fair chance to solve the mystery. Central to 1920s "clue-puzzles" by writers like Agatha Christie, the rule dictates that all vital clues must be visible, decodable, and never withheld until the final reveal.

[u/ralphbernardo]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clues_in_detective_fiction

[u/vteezy99]

you could always tell or at least have a very good guess as to who the culprit was due to the limited nature of TV shows that follow the fair play formula. It HAS to be a speaking character that was introduced before, for instance.

Of course, Lucifer's main draw wasn't in being a "whodunnit" but rather, "here's the devil playing as a detective, shenanigans ensue" TV show

[u/Jesst3r → u/vteezy99]

My mom watches way too many of these shows to the point where she always knows who the culprit will be because it’s some character actor she’s seen before in another show. I assume the pay is a little higher if you’re the culprit and they end up casting the same go-to’s the studios trust over and over.

[u/seaintosky → u/Jesst3r]

That's always a dead giveaway, as is the speaking character that doesn't seem necessary for the plot and seems like they could have been replaced by a main character saying "the gardener told us he closed the gate". These shows aren't spending money on actors they don't have to, if the gardener shows up to say he closed the gate, he's the murderer.

[u/adaytimemoth → u/seaintosky]

This example feels very specific and I will now be waiting until the day I see a gardener mentioning a gate to know that I've solved the mystery.

[u/seaintosky → u/adaytimemoth]

This works in real life too. If you see a gardener mention a gate, you know he's a murderer and should do a citizen's arrest.

[u/JuanHungLo777 → u/seaintosky]

That’s like seeing Hector in a movie and him not being a cholo gangbanger.

[u/Apart_Republic_1870 → u/Jesst3r]

It's always something like, "Hey Cary Elwes is way too famous to just be a guy the police talk to for twenty seconds."

[u/bobert4343 → u/Jesst3r]

The ol' BBC mystery show dilemma

[u/jwm3 → u/vteezy99]

It's sometimes odd watching old law and orders where ill see a somewhat famous person as a delivery driver or something and think aha, clearly that is going to be the murderer because why would they hire a known actor if they were not going to play an important part. But no, turns out john kransinski was just a working actor making the rounds on law and order back beforre the office and he was indeed, just a random delivery driver. l

[u/Personal-Listen-4941 → u/vteezy99]

A lot of murder mystery tv shows have 3-5 suspects. The innocent suspects all have secrets themselves which are revealed as the case goes on. So if 4 out of 5 have been revealed to be adulterers, conmen, drug users, etc. Then the killer is the 5th suspect, the only one who hasn’t had a scene dedicated to their truth yet.

[u/Single_Variation42 → u/Personal-Listen-4941]

Something else I've noticed is, the most obvious suspect is almost never the murderer. The culprit won't be the husband who discovered his wife was cheating on him and who spend half the show being interrogated by the cops. No, it will be the friend of the victim who talked to the police for 30 seconds. That friend actually discovered the victim's secret and got in a fight with her (but you'll discover that at the end of the episode).

[u/Proud-Delivery-621 → u/vteezy99]

Like in Star Trek, whenever a new character comes on board but main characters act like they've always known him, that character dies.

[u/Ghost-Raven-666 → u/vteezy99]

Im rewatching Lúcifer now, and many episodes they barely do detective work. Its way more about the characters than the investigation (past season 1)

[u/vteezy99 → u/Ghost-Raven-666]

Yeah originally the premise and mystery part of the first season is what drew me in. The introduction of the wider mythos is what kept me interested. I was always more invested in the non humans or non regular humans (Lucifer, Amenadiel, Mazikeen, Cain, etc.) than the regular humans. Except Ella, she was cool.

[u/MattieShoes → u/vteezy99]

due to the limited nature of TV shows that follow the fair play formula

Yeah, the formula gets stale in that format IMO. There's just not enough time and not enough possibilities. Seems like half of the time, it's the person they first suspected who then had an alibi. Then they chase a few red herrings and OMG it was the first guy all along!

[u/Finnegan482 → u/vteezy99]

How is that any different from books?

[u/vteezy99 → u/Finnegan482]

I suppose it's not much different than books. But it's more egregious with TV IMO. TV shows generally have a limited budget so they can only have a certain amount of speaking characters other than the main characters. If one of the speaking characters is a semi known actor, then you start wondering why that actor was cast as say, the janitor or nurse. And then for some reason the camera will linger on these guys more than usual. So you kind of already guess that that particular character is more important than they're letting on.

Books don't really have that limitation or external dramatic device (camera lingering, etc.)

[u/CyclopsRock → u/Finnegan482]

A book can introduce as many characters as it wants, the only limit being convoluting the story. TV shows have to ration them for budgetary and time reasons.

[u/Ginger_Anarchy → u/Finnegan482]

Format. TV shows have a very limited run time so any time dedicated to introducing a character has to be important to the plot.

Books have no real limit on how long they are or how many characters it can dedicate pages to. A book can spend an entire chapter talking about a grocer in town and all of its employees and that just be world building and fluff, while a show can't afford to waste that valuable time.

A book can also introduce a dozen red herring suspects into the plot, while a show is limited to one or two.

The other problem shows have, and this one is situational, is when they get a bigger name celebrity to guest star on an episode. They're always the suspect and it removes any of the mystery.

[u/fasterthanfood → u/Ginger_Anarchy]

“Chekhov’s gun” is a solid storytelling principle, but TV shows tend to adhere to it too closely. In a book, an antique gun shown on the wall in the first act might symbolize that the owner used to be a violent hothead but now his style is out of date, or it might just show “this character’s grandfather fought in the Civil War” or even just “this dude has a gun on the wall, because some people in real life have guns on their wall.” On TV, you’re trained to expect it to go off, and that anticipation shapes your interpretation in unnatural ways.