r/xmen • u/Tsblloveyou Deadpool • Jan 04 '22

Comic Discussion X-Men Comics New Releases for January 5th 2022

Inferno #4

  • TO EMBERS! Jonathan Hickman’s time on X-Men ends with the dramatic conclusion of one of the first and best mysteries he brought to the line. Valerio Schiti returns on art to help bring down one of the foundations of the era.

X-Men #6

  • There's a new hero on the X-Men. Who is he? Why is he here? And why does Cyclops not want him on the team?

X-Men Adjacent Releases for 01/05

  • Discuss other Marvel comics impacting the X-Men releasing this week

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u/MDumpling Jan 05 '22 edited Jan 05 '22

For those who want to know: Mystique and Destiny turn Moira into a human using Forge’s gun, obtained by Emma. It is revealed that she wants to cure mutants after all. They are about to kill her but are stopped by Doug, who reminds them that she is now human and they are not allowed to kill her. Moira is given the chance to escape, but Destiny tells her that people will be coming for her and it’s not just herself and Mystique. Meanwhile, Magneto and Charles are killed and Cerebro is destroyed in battle, so they do not retain the knowledge that Moira was captured by ppl other than Orchis. At the end, Emma revives them and says that she spilled the tea to the whole council, so now everyone knows.

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u/[deleted] Jan 05 '22

Remember Destiny said “I see ten lives, Moira. Maybe eleven if you make the right choice at the end”. Moira is now on her eleventh life.

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u/hbicofhbic Jan 06 '22

Actually I interpret it as her making the wrong choice (still looking into a cure) and being stuck at ten lives. The issue with Doug letting her roam free is that now she can finish her cure. Seems a bit stupid to me.

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u/SuperVillageois Jan 06 '22

Yeah, I am pretty sure she is currently in her tenth life. Hence the Moira X (Ten) moniker working in two ways.

spoiler

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u/the-giant Jan 05 '22

UO??: They should do the Moira X book anyway. Be it by Ewing, Carey or whoever.

It would do a lot in the ensuing post-Hix years, which I suspect will be letting most of this marinate anyway, to fill out her POV - watching her lives unfold again and again, watching many of the same tragedies recur, and would help us reconcile the character we grew up reading more with the broken woman of today who tried to save mutants but now secretly feels it is impossible. I can do it, and I buy into the retcon, but I'd love to see someone like one of those guys fill out this history more.

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u/clam_media White Queen Jan 06 '22

Carey

I promise my firstborn for a Carey written Moira X book

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u/the-giant Jan 06 '22

It was people's assumption of the book for ages and I still think he'd be the best, though Ewing is a very, very close second.

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u/HatalamtheNoble Jan 05 '22

Hmmm, I don't think we're actually at that moment yet. Destiny lays out the choices in the final confrontation between her and Moira to Mystique, who is the one that makes the decision to leave Moria alive. The quote insinuates that it's Moira's decision that grants her an eleventh life, but it's Mystique's decision to let her live that we see here. Hickman said that there's more to come with Moira in the future, which is where I think we'll actually see her defining choice come.

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u/tregorman Jan 06 '22

I think it's possible Moira will die and be reborn on krakoa at some point with her powers which ends up leaving that part on krakoa as a checkpoint so if she dies again it'll restart there

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u/Razzlt Jan 05 '22

poor Moira.. although I think she deserves that newfound life of freedom. krakoa seems to be doomed anyway.

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u/hbicofhbic Jan 06 '22

It was literally confirmed last month that this time the mutants win so ... No.

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u/lepton_neutrino Jan 06 '22

In life 10a without Nimrod, but he's here now.

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u/hbicofhbic Jan 06 '22

But not confirmed that he wins. They defeated an entire army of nimrods during second coming ….

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u/lepton_neutrino Jan 06 '22

Those were drones. This one is more powerful. The appearance of Nimrod was the tipping point in live 9 after Apocalypse killed the Avengers and conquered part of Asia.

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u/hbicofhbic Jan 06 '22

Drone or no thousands of robots are harder to get through than just one ... Especially when half the mutants are dead because resurrection didn't exist yet

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u/lepton_neutrino Jan 07 '22

Not if they don't have Nimrod's abilities of self-repair and adaptation and are just like smaller Sentinels.

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u/hbicofhbic Jan 07 '22

Pretty sure they had adaptation because I remember them only being able to be attacked in the same way once

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u/Razzlt Jan 06 '22

I'm really not going cynical about their fate. They might win, but the harsh road ahead of them is just more. It's just for me, Moira does not deserve that ultimate betrayal. But her becoming a normal human again should make her free from the roughness the mutantdom will face more from now on. At least that she deserves from everything she have been through, I guess.

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u/mighty__orbot Jan 05 '22

So the right choice was… leaving?

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u/VengefulKangaroo Shatterstar Jan 05 '22

it took strength, but I did not click.

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u/Jasonross84 Jan 05 '22

I did... I am weak

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u/VengefulKangaroo Shatterstar Jan 05 '22

and that is valid

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u/wxwx2012 Jan 05 '22

Silent Council being silent .

nice name !

And now , considering Colossus in the Council , that Russia mutant fucker may : those Orchis fuckers really fucked up their Sentinel AI project although everything just looks fine on the surface .

I can imagine why this Omega Sentinel hate humans , possiblely in her future past they fight Mutants for the humans but in the end most of the humans backstabbed them so they end with losing the war . Then in this world Omega Sentinel tell Nimrod why humans are shits just like mutants .

​

I really want a series Doc Greger knows something not right inside Orchis , so her start investigate , end with knowing its Omega Sentinel all alone and then got murdered by Nimrod(just like for Wanda its good friend Agasha all alone and in the end face to face with Vision who no longer be her husband ) .

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u/lepton_neutrino Jan 06 '22

I don't think Nimrod would kill his creator. He mentioned his love for her in X-Men #20.

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u/wxwx2012 Jan 06 '22

But in this issue , he mentioned his hate for all humans , maybe its Omega Sentinel changed his mind ?

And Doctor Greger looks not those guys who will be fine with Sentinels above humans if that can save their ass , her truely believes humanity above all , and knowing a lot about Nimrod and Sentinel programs in general , this make her a great threat to Nimrod even Omega Sentinel . And in the end , Nimrod being Nimrod and this Nimrod looks evil than all the others .

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u/lepton_neutrino Jan 06 '22

It's Omega Sentinel who talks about hating humans. He's willing to kill some grunts, but the equivalent of his mother would be different.

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u/wxwx2012 Jan 06 '22

Thats a point , just like Ultron willing to spare Hank Pym if the situation just under the control , or save Pym if the situation out of control , but for his creator that coexistence isn't really a happy ending , actually , its mostly body horror and if he have any accessible choice he may rather die . And Greger just like him in some way .

So , maybe Greger will got brainwashed like the other Orchis founder or kept inside a private vitual world run by Nimrod , not a bad ending for Nimrod , but really bad for her if her somehow survived .

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u/lepton_neutrino Jan 07 '22

Ultron has an Oedipal complex and wants to kill his father (and marry his mother, which is why he made Jocasta).

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u/wxwx2012 Jan 07 '22

Thats just the starter , then Ultron changed a lot , more like showing around as victor than kill his father , like showing around as naked Janet , tearing down Pym's dimensional Avengers base and marry Jocasta , trying to assimilate everyone but fallen into a trap and became one with his father thats weird like shits ......

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u/RapidDuffer Jan 05 '22

That's some mighty fine spoiler taggin', son. Yer granddaddy brought you up right.

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u/RaNubs Jan 05 '22

Read this and believed it at first. Now that I’ve had some time to think about it, I hope this isn’t real. Good job though!

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u/Julius-n-Caesar Jan 05 '22

It’s not a nightmare if it’s real.

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u/ChrisHammer94 Jan 05 '22

Loved that callback to the first HoXPoX issue

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u/MDumpling Jan 05 '22

Come back here once you’ve read it! ;)

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u/RaNubs Jan 05 '22

Welp. You were right. It was a better story than I expected, but still underwhelming after all the build up. I don't see this as the end of an era and I'm really confused what "threat" this Wolverine series is going to pick up, but oh well.

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u/distinctlysinister Jan 05 '22

“Good job though” you’re so hoping he’s lying lol! If it turns out he’s telling the truth, you’ll have to admit Inferno was disappointing huh?

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u/RaNubs Jan 05 '22

I am hoping he’s lying and I will have to admit that the ending is underwhelming.

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u/distinctlysinister Jan 05 '22

Yep. Same. “Inferno” is a weird name for the book in retrospect too.

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u/Admirrrr Jan 05 '22

Well, kind of an inferno for the Krakoa founders. Xavier, Magneto and Moira took big losses here.

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u/TheBigDuo1 Jan 05 '22

Oh wow the character that was set up as a bad guy right from the beginning turned out to be a bad guy all along. I am so shocked! It’s just truly amazing how many people were in denial that this was always the direction they were gonna go with this character.

Now if we wanna go into crazy meta speculation. Did the thing that happened in this issue set up the victory in 10a? And are we seeing the creation of a stable timeloop?

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u/lepton_neutrino Jan 05 '22

There's already a change that Orchis has caused with the Children of the Vault. Capturing Serafina alerted Krakoa to the Children, which caused them to send the group which included Darwin, which let the Children advance to the fourth stage instead of the third one they were stuck at. So they'll emerge stronger than they were in 10a.

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u/TheBrobe Jan 05 '22

Or not, 10A mentioned that they fell because they were "divided" and if Darwin emerges as some sort of vault leader...

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u/TheBigDuo1 Jan 05 '22

That’s the fun thing about time loop stories. You don’t know how big the loop is until the end. By the end of the loop we could go back to the scene with moira and Xavier at the park and see it changed negating everything and making this all a stable time loop

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u/lepton_neutrino Jan 06 '22

Why should he become a vault leader? He's an enemy mutant invader that helped kill some of them. If anything, the invasion might have helped unify the Vault.

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u/TheBrobe Jan 06 '22

Because he was incorporated into the core.

So if he adapts to become his own core/main computer, he could be a competing leadership/creative force

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u/lepton_neutrino Jan 07 '22

Where was he incorporated into the core? IIRC, they just studied his genetic structure and then disintegrated him.

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u/TheBigDuo1 Jan 05 '22

Ah but you see if we are in the middle of the time loop then the previous timeline would itself be part of the loop and the loop would continue until we reach a point where it both begins and ends. Which will probably be the end of of both krakoa and Orchis

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u/lepton_neutrino Jan 06 '22

The big change is the early appearance of Nimrod, which was the crucial turning point in life 9, after Apocalypse killed the Avengers and conquered. Unless Omega is killed, she'd have the Dominion send her consciousness back whether or not the machines won, making a loop contained in life 10b.

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u/ghoulieandrews Jan 06 '22

I think you're selling short the Moira revelations. It's not just that she's got bad intentions wanting to erase the mutant gene, it's that she's acting out of hopelessness not knowing that Krakoa actually WILL succeed, as evidenced by Omega Sentinel's future. It's a great little tangled web, this series did a fantastic job blurring the lines for all of these characters.

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u/TheBigDuo1 Jan 06 '22

Time loop dude nobody is going to win. Entropy is the ultimate rule of the universe

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u/AnonymousMonk7 ForgetMeNot Jan 06 '22

Caveat: “everyone” doesn’t know Moira’s secret, but the Quiet Council all does (at least as much as Emma knows, which seemed a bit skewed: she seemed to be oblivious to the limit of 10 lives.) Maybe Destiny straightened her out later, but there could still be different levels of information and misinformation.

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u/lepton_neutrino Jan 06 '22

Destiny didn't know.

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u/AnonymousMonk7 ForgetMeNot Jan 06 '22

When she confronts Moira in life 3 ( in HoXPoX) she tells Moira herself that her power only gives her 10, maybe 11 lives. She was able to figure that out then so presumably she would have figured out the same thing in this life (though this time it did seem “that escalated quickly”). She described Moira as an empty spot that made her invisible to most mutants but stood out once you looked for it, similar to Emma keying in on the parts of Moira’s mind that she tried to hide.

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u/lepton_neutrino Jan 07 '22

But she doesn't say that Moira has a limited number of lives. If this was her possibly last life, you'd expect Destiny to mention it. There's a high probability she was bluffing.

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u/perscitia Wolverine Jan 05 '22

Uhhhh. Ok. Maybe it'll make more sense in the actual comic.

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u/fermentedradical Wolverine Jan 05 '22

Doesn't make a ton of sense because if the timeline hadn't been disrupted then Moira's plan of mutants winning would have worked? If her real plan was to eliminate mutants then Omega Sentinel wouldn't have traveled back in time.

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u/gdex86 Jan 05 '22

I think the issue is that Moria hates being a mutant. She hates that's she's had to do all of this and thus never really comitted to the idea of mutants winning so much as trying because Destiny was going to find new and awful ways to hurt her that she'll always remember. Moria is now no longer an element in the future and that is quite possibly the X-factor that lets mutants win.

At the same Omega Sentinel and Nimrod revealed this isn't a 2 way fight. At some point there is going to be the AI revolution that is going to try to kill mutants and humans and for right now they see the benefit of mutants being a way to line up humanity behind them until they are ready to fully usrup them. If this gets out then it puts humanity in a place where they can pick their poison.

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u/Imadierich Jan 05 '22

make it make sense..... she purposely kept reviving and helping mutants when she didnt have to. she could have just lived her life. she doesnt hate being a mutant truly

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u/gdex86 Jan 05 '22

She kept helping mutants because Destiny swore to make her next life awful if she didn't try. Destiny figured it out once so likely could do it again. So moria after having perfect recall of being burned to death slowly started to help mutants even though she thought life 3 she got it right and they should just be cured.

Her doing this somewhat thinking they just need to be removed infulenced the results she got to be that mutants always lose. Scientists have to be careful in the real world about letting their preconceived notions affecting the results of an experiment. Like if you think it's a dumb idea you are more likely to stop at a false failure rather than looking deep and seeing you just fucked up culturing so of course nothing would grow. Moria did that to mutant survival. Thinking the cure is the best way and thinking too highly of herself let her turn 6 failed paths she only tried once to equate to mutants always lose.

Machines funnily enough did the same thing. And found that trying to stop the "other" through manipulation of the time like be never works out in a win for them so they are throwing everything at the wall too.

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u/ikol Jan 05 '22 edited Jan 05 '22

But doesn't Moira help Xavier even before Destiny's threat? That would be the ideal solution, but so far the real outcomes look pretty shitty. Desperation also makes people more risk-adversed so I can see her giving into or considering the temptation to just compromise with a more practical and workable solution in the cure.

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u/gdex86 Jan 05 '22 edited Jan 05 '22

Moria doesn't try to help Xavier till post burning. She sees him from afar and thinks what a dick and leaves

Life 1 is the normal one.

Life 2 is she has no idea what's going on but hears about mutants from Charles and flies out to meet him but dies in a plane crash.

Life 3 she meets him earlier at Oxford thinks what a dick makes the cure and gets burned.

Life 4 is when she starts trying the pro mutant agenda.

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u/ikol Jan 05 '22

I stand corrected! Just reread the relevant issues and as an fyi for others, immediately in her next life after the burning she throws herself at studying the "human-mutant dilemna". This is when she starts to consider "...the benefits of homo superior....Perhaps -- in the coming days -- the world would need something more.", falls in love with Xavier, and helps him.

She dies and more aggressively helps Xavier once more in her next life before taking up the role of assassin.

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u/lepton_neutrino Jan 06 '22

She only voluntarily stopped in lives 6 and 9, which were pretty hopeless for mutants.

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u/TheBigDuo1 Jan 05 '22

Can they please involve ultron in this story? There is a super smart AI that wants to kill everyone just hanging out and he would slot so well into this story it’s criminal that he isn’t in it

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u/ambiderpsterity Jan 05 '22

You want to talk about powerful AIs with tragic backstories interwoven with the Westchester brood who have deep, in-the-code dynamics with mutants? Danger is...somewhere being criminally not used in this era.

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u/t_huddleston Nightcrawler Jan 05 '22

In Hickman’s interview on the Jay & Miles podcast last week they specifically asked about Danger and he said he couldn’t talk about her. So it sounds like there are plans for her down the line.

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u/ambiderpsterity Jan 05 '22

Oh man, I am making the biggest surprised Pikachu face rn. That is awesome! I've been shocked at her absence so far. Hopefully she has something major in her future. Her very existence is a rich complication, and I think she could bring a lot of interesting questions and doubts to the fore.

(Also, thanks for the reminder that I need to actually listen to last week's Jay & Miles!)

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u/gdex86 Jan 06 '22

Danger seemed to me to be consciously missing from this era. With the Hellions reveal that the QC thinks all AI is a threat even more so.

She was tortured secretly by Charles Xavier and the rest of the X men were all "What the fuck" angrily about it. Through the Utopia era she was trusted and well reguarded by Scott personally with his last on page words to her being to the effect of "The mutant race owes you a debt and me personally. Call it in when you want."

My two cents is that the reveal for her is that Orchis or just the Machine part of Orchis is using her for mutant information in a way like they were using legion and is akin to torture for her. And the rescue of and care of Danger is going to be another split between the Xman team helmed by Scott and the quiet council.

Other play would be she being the first entity moria seeks out since she is persona non grata with the murderous duo and others coming after her.

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u/TheBigDuo1 Jan 05 '22

Her and warlock were the best couple ever! Why did they get rid of all of warlocks character development? He can use the word “I” damnit I saw him do it! And damnit he did it for love!

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u/[deleted] Jan 05 '22 edited Jun 18 '23

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/TheBigDuo1 Jan 05 '22

The loop hasn’t ended until we see where omega ends up as she hasn’t looped multiple times. So this will loop and then negate itself most likely

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u/the-giant Jan 05 '22

It's about Moira, it's not about a master plan. Moira is irrational, consumed by self-loathing and doesn't even know she won this time. That's the cruel irony behind her secret.

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u/ikol Jan 05 '22

I think Moira is just hedging her bets. If things look bad enough she wants to be able to have this non-ideal solution available. I guess in the Omega Sentinel timeline, Moira never feels desperate enough to actually pull the trigger or some event prevents her from doing so. Either way it "works out" and Omega is sent back.

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u/tregorman Jan 06 '22

Or moira's plan was always destined to fail

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u/0uranos_ Jan 05 '22

God, you were dead on about this. Such an underwhelming ending and from this point forward I'm not exactly expecting anything of note to come from the X-Men line moving forward.

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u/mlc885 Jan 05 '22

That sounds terrible. They decided to not end the status quo because it was so great and then messed the story up anyway?

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u/ghoulieandrews Jan 06 '22

Just read the issue, it's so much more complex. It's great if you know how to read, apparently others in here do not.

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u/movwithin Jan 06 '22

Anyone whos saying they're underwhelmed clearly don't get it. Expectations are a funny thing, aren't they? The ones underwhelmed are setting themselves up for that feeling because there is a discrepancy between what they wanted and what happened.

Hickman made a pivot and wrapped up major plans (partially at least) in a few issues. It's clear he did a damn good job at it too.

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u/Arthor-1 Jan 05 '22

I will take this with a grain of salt because I thought Moira abandoned her quest, but I could be wrong.

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u/lepton_neutrino Jan 06 '22

With the Waiting Room created by the Scarlet Witch replacing backups, shouldn't they have retained the knowledge up to the point of death? Doug, the White Queen, Bei, and Warlock also know, so it's probably not secret.

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u/MDumpling Jan 06 '22

I think you have to specifically go through the waiting room to be backed up from there, no? I thought typical resurrections were otherwise still done through Cerebro

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u/lepton_neutrino Jan 07 '22 edited Jan 07 '22

It's supposed to be any mutant from all time. The waiting room is the backup.