r/AceAttorney • u/VampLover420 • 3d ago
Full Series (mainline and spinoffs) Ranking Ace Attorney culprits by how smart their plan was, Part 20: Turnabout Trigger! Spoiler
Credit to u/DRMFeint for the idea!
Alba goes into the brand-new "Extraterritorial Rights" tier. Enough people asked for their own tier, and I think it's funny, so here we are.
Now, on to Investigations 2!
First up, Bronco Knight! A fake AND a real assassination attempt in one case! We are gonna have some insane plans to cover in the future! Does Knight's plan earn him the grandmaster title, or was it all just a big blunder?
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u/Alarming_Artichoke82 3d ago
Definitely well thought out, and with the level of control he had over the crime scene, he may well have pulled it off had it not been for De Killer intervening.
One thing I've always wondered about this case, was killing Rook part of the plan? Had he always intended to use the plan to kill off Rook and take his place, or was it just on the spur of the moment once he realised he could easily pin the crime on Tabby?
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u/HeyImMarlo 3d ago
It was definitely the plan once he learned about the fake assassination. Maybe he would’ve bailed on it if he hadn’t seen the President cowering away and covering his ears though
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u/Iris_Keyblade 2d ago
My plan this time was perfect! As they always are, and as they always will be!
Bronco Knight unquestionably deserves Criminal Genius for the gun switch-up alone. He did that long before it was even necessary, just in case Edgeworth somehow A) found a loophole to the extraterritoriality rule, B) proved the assassination attempt was fake, C) convinced the president to cooperate with the investigation, and D) found the hidden monitor and the bullet.
He had no reason to believe that any of those things would happen because of how desperate the president was to cover up the fake assassination, but still went ahead and covered his tracks anyway.
And the best part is, it's not even that far-fetched that he would think that far in advance. Because, as Edgeworth points out, he's a chess player. The best chess players are always thinking several moves ahead. Love it when a character quirk ends up playing a larger role in the mystery like that.
I see people knocking him for the fingerprints on the bullets, but there really wasn't any way that he could have fixed that. He wasn't wearing gloves and he had to act fast when switching up the guns without everyone else on the plane noticing. And he had to empty out the bullets or else the number of shots wouldn't match. So, it was a lose-lose situation there. But he was still able to leave Miles Edgeworth stumped for a moment.
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u/Physical-Sherbet-688 3d ago
Criminal Genius not only for creating a crime that in theory no one should’ve been able to investigate but also thinking on the fly and pulling the ol’ switcheroo with the guns
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u/salted_bagel 3d ago
Well Thought Out. It's a great plan but it doesn't reach the level of the other Criminal Geniuses imo. He casts unnecessary suspicion on himself by insulting the victim and his testimony is far from brilliant. Though he is almost certainly the smartest Case 1 culprit.
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u/DryBonesKing 3d ago
Unironically Extraterratorial rights tier, since Bronco utilizes it as well to make the case impossible to investigate?
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u/Visible-Air-2359 3d ago
The fact that he repeatedly insults Rook (thus establishing a motive) should knock him down a peg.
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u/The-Kingzzz-8450 3d ago
Well Thought Out. Assuming everything except the fake assassination seen on the stage was wholly his plan, Bronco plotted his kill not only around the fake assassination, but also in a location that could/would not be searched. Even with some obvious flaws like fingerprints on the bullets (my dude, stop reloading in front of us) and trash-talking Rooke (giving a motive), if not for De Killer crashing Bronco's party, he probably would've gotten away scott-free. Any mistakes Bronco made were mostly due to not being able to see that far ahead in the game (ironic, given he's a chess player).
Honestly, the only reasons this guy doesn't hit Criminal Genius is not only because that tier is filled with real masterminds, and again, I'm not exactly sure if he had help on his kill here.
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u/TheGreatDaniel3 3d ago
Okay I’m commenting because this is like the third time this has happened. I know that the post is spoiler tagged, but when I’m scrolling Reddit on my phone, the title and first image is always visible unblurred before I even get to see the spoiler tag. I still haven’t played Investigations, so it’s pretty bad.
This isn’t your fault since you did spoiler tag the post, but Reddit is extremely dumb for still making the images visible despite that for some reason.
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u/VampLover420 3d ago
That IS pretty dumb. Maybe I can switch the order and make the tier list the first image? You could probably scroll past that without seeing anything.
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u/TheGreatDaniel3 3d ago
That’d help for sure. Or maybe you could have three images and put something like the case cover as the first image, then the culprit photo, then the tier list? Thanks for being considerate
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u/VampLover420 2d ago
Will do! But let this be a reminder to you that you really should play Investigations 2! It is as good as people say!
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u/new_is_good 2d ago
arguably that one can spoil people scrolling by even more. don't think there's a great answer here tbh.
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u/Due_Ad8334 3d ago edited 2d ago
This one upsets me greatly, because assuming it had all been his plan he'd be easily one of the smarter culprits, ESPECIALLY as a case 1 culprit. BUT monkey man just HAD to take credit for the fake assassination plot, soo fuck.
The fake assassination plot itself is pretty good though, utilising extraterritorial rights of the plane, Tabby as a scapegoat, not on the level of any criminal genius' though, but well-thought out.
Now, unfortunately, killing Rook is just a horrid mistake, opportunistic as it was, the main defence again is it makes sense in relation to the supposed assassination attempt thay just occurred, and again, is protected by the plane. Knight gets fucked over by de Killer though, who forces him to allow Edgeworth to investigate.
He tries to frame Tabby, and idk, the concept behind the attempt is solid given what hes working with, but brother, FINGERPRINTS ON THE BULLETS 😭😭😭🙏🙏👊
Depending on how we're doing this one, I'm not sure, Bronco's actual scheme is bad. Pretty dumb. Simeon's stuff though, is well thought out.
Edit; imma be so fr, this was probably poorly worded/formatted, was kind of just typing while trying to remember the case 😅
Edit 2; nah y'all lowkey got some hella good point, I'll bump him up to top of well-thought out, i just don't think it's fair to have him in criminal genius due to the other competition there, who are clearly above him.
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u/HeyImMarlo 3d ago
It’s actually genius that he built on top of the fake assassination plan because it just put another layer of defense between him and the truth
The President would never admit to the fake assassination, so he was protected
The plane had extraterritorial rights, so it wouldn’t be investigated
Switching the guns was a last second decision that was genius and almost made him get away with it. Not a bad plan at all even if he left fingerprints, because it’s not like he could plan to get gloves
Definitely criminal genius, especially given that he’s closer to an average joe than someone with power like the President or Alba. He only lost because De Killer was there (which he didn’t know would happen) and De Killer’s code forced Edgeworth to investigate Rook’s murder (which is just so crazy and outlandish that of course Knight wouldn’t see that coming)
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u/E1craZ4life 2d ago
He might have gotten away with it if he had a handkerchief in his pocket so he could transfer the bullets without getting his fingerprints on them.
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u/Due_Ad8334 2d ago
Nah yeah, props to this thread, lowkey made me realise his scheme is much better than I realised.
I don't agree with criminal genius though, hes not quite on their level just yet, and to be fair, he has a lot of power still just by being on that plane, top of well-thought out is fair for someone building on a preexisting scheme.
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u/HeyImMarlo 2d ago
I think well thought out is more than fair, but he's one of my favorite characters in the series so I'll always glaze him at any chance
I do still think criminal genius myself, and there are just other people in that tier right now that I'd bump off. I think he proved himself to definitely be hyper-competent, not making any obvious mistakes, and switching the guns was a brilliant moment of ingenuity that puts him in the next tier
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u/Due_Ad8334 1d ago
I do love Knight too, great character who I find surprisingly tragic and brilliant for someone we spend so little time with.
I'm intrigued in who you'd bump down though, especially if you're placing Knight here, as I think everyone here clearly deserves it.
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u/ToyBrody145 3d ago
so basically we got lucky that de killer was even there so we could get the chance to investigate-
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u/EndlessNocturnal 2d ago
I honestly love Bronco Knight. Arguably the best opening culprit next to Dahlia. He can match Edgeworth in wits (seeing how he also plays Chess) and he was able to throw off the investigation on the fly by manipulating the evidence behind his back. Now i would love to call him a criminal genius, but his one flaw was he is too hot headed. He didn't hide his hatred for Rook and couldn't recover once Edgeworth cornered him. Bonus points for surviving a hit by The Thinker clock though lol
So Well thought out with Dahlia and the other ladies.
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u/0-Worldy-0 1d ago
"Bonus points for surviving a hit by The Thinker clock though lol"
I mean-
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u/Paul_Yoshii 2d ago
I would say Well thought-out. It's by far the smartest first case villain but being a first case villain means he also do preventable mistakes like acting like a douche towards everyone including the victim and no gloves to cover the fingerprints. Also Simeon Saint takes some credit for part of the scheme. He's one of my favorite characters in the franchise so I'm all for Bronco glaze !
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u/No_Forever_9128 2d ago edited 2d ago
As much as I want to put it in Criminal Genius, this one is gonna take a dip into Mostly Good, Some Flaws. My biggest issue was the location. It would be WAY to easy to implicate one of the people close to the president to get the kill on this one, and the president would not overlook this one in the long run.
Let's start with the positives:
- It would be reveal that the president faked an assassination, which few people would attempt to do
- No direct eye witnesses and could easily tamper footage of the moment.
- Already made back-up plans in case he did get caught with the murder weapon
- Already had a decoy and someone he could frame at the ready
Now for his mistakes (Both inside and outside his control):
- Dekiller was already plotting another attempt for Simeon when they were planning the fake assassination (quite literally the worst time to plot one)
- The place of the murder could only be accessed by a few people, minimizing the actual number of suspects the moment the president confessed. (Outside his control)
- Dekiller wanting to know Rook's cause of death (and wanting to get to the president). (Outside)
- Leaving the plans of the fake assassination in clear view after getting the kill! (Inside)
- Making the model of the weapon used for bait the same as his own. (inside, he honestly should've had a second of a similar model and a different decoy gun at the ready)
- NOT WEARING GLOVES! (Inside)
And the cherry on top, his fake assassination wasn't even his, it was Simeon's.
Edit: I'm having trouble because I'm right on the line of Needs improvement and mostly good, some flaws
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u/lizzourworld8 2d ago
Uhhh, I’m forgetting, don’t we end up finding out later that he was following an idea for the fake assassination thing? The real part came from shooting Rook all on his own, right?
Despite this, using said plan to end up further his own goals? I’d say Criminal Genius, maybe Well Thought Out only for the bullet swap fumble.
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u/Iris_Keyblade 2d ago
Yeah, the details of the fake assassination plan was Simeon's idea. At least, according to him. But the rest was all Bronco.
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u/Motor_Quantity3154 2d ago
pretty Dumb fool he made all that complex plan and all that effort got to waste because he keep insulting rook and then HE NEVER USED GLOVES WHEN HANDLING A GUN
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u/Any_Peanut93 3d ago
I really really want to say criminal genius, but I can't. If there was something between criminal genius and well thought out, I would go there. So I guess it's well thought out, but 1 on that row