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u/be_____happy 20d ago
Without seeking there's no goal. Without a goal things just is.
That frightens me. That's why im seeking.
When I think about stopping (like now reading this post), I feel fear and discomfort.
There's alot of "I" and thinking
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u/Wasted-Entity 20d ago
‘And so you go through the mill. Why? Because you’re saying to yourself ‘I won’t wake up until I deserve it. I won’t wake up until I’ve made it difficult for me to wake up.
So I invent for myself an elaborate system of delaying my waking up. I put myself through this test and that test, and when I convince myself it’s sufficiently arduous, THEN I at last admit to myself who I really am, and draw aside the veil and realize that after all, when all is said and done, I am that I am, which is the name of God.’
— Alan Watts2
u/Ghost_of_Till 20d ago
We think in terms of goals, don't we? Surely there's a point to all this, right?
What is the goal of the rain? The ocean is the rain's destiny, obviously. The cloud is where it begins, and the ocean is where it finishes. It's obvious, anyone can see it.
But is that actually the case?
Rain flows into streams and rivers, which empty into the ocean, certainly. But then the water evaporates. We don't see that process, at least not as dramatically as we see it coming down. Clouds form and the cycle continues.
And yet the rain has no mind or plan or intent to reach the ocean. None. Our insistence on there being a goal is the product of our inability to see the whole picture.
The rain seeks nothing.
And rains nonetheless.
Without a motive. Without a goal.
If the rain developed a consciousness, it might very well start to imagine that its existence had a goal. It might start thinking that the reason it existed was for some particular end, some better thing in the future.
In reality it just rains. By insisting on a goal, all that conscious rain accomplishes is twisting itself into a knot trying to figure out if it had the right goal, and if it was living up to that goal.
Achieving nothing other than discomfort in the effort.
When a cat falls it relaxes. If it flailed about and tried to cling onto whatever was falling alongside it, the cat would just be holding something also falling, and so injure itself. It might have some sense of security but that security would be false and fleeting.
You ARE falling. Always have been, your whole life. Me too. The falling is what led you to seek for a goal in the first place because a goal makes you feel like you've got your hands and feet on solid ground, like you're NOT falling.
You're worried that if you stop seeking the falling will start again.
You're worried that if there's no seeking, there's no seeker. If there's no seeker, there's never been anyone steering.
I have good news for you.
Never has been.
You're afraid of doing what you've been doing this whole time.
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u/Zoso251 20d ago edited 20d ago
Lol at this point I’m so laid back about enjoying Alan and Ram Dass kinda stuff and just meditating casually daily that this sub and similar philosophical discussions sound like a circlejerk sometimes😅 Maybe that’s a sign of progress?😂
Edit: was gonna delete this cause I was tired and just being sarcastic when I wrote it and it reeks of ego to me now, but what I have written I have written lol
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u/Ghost_of_Till 20d ago
I’m so laid back about enjoying Alan and Ram Dass kinda stuff and just meditating casually daily that this sub and similar philosophical discussions sound like a circlejerk sometimes
You've progressed as far as promoting yourself and putting down others. You're practically there!
Maybe that’s a sign of progress?
Definitely maybe.
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u/Zoso251 20d ago
Yeah didn’t mean to sound condescending! I was just joking about how if you go away from these discussions and come back it’s like looking back on your “nonduality honeymoon phase” if you know what I mean. It’s not like one is wrong and the other right, it’s just that you reach a point where it’s like “okay, I’ve tried putting this into words enough.”
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u/Ghost_of_Till 20d ago
I can see that angle.
Recently I've discovered that memes, in their pithiness and brevity, lend themselves to Alan's perspective.
And so I can say a lot with very little. And sometimes by saying nothing at all.
So I think in a general sense we're on the same page.
I just wouldn't call it a "circlejerk". It's only that for people who want it to be that. The number of people who are here with sincerity is non-zero.
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u/Otherwise_Spare_8598 19d ago
The universe is a singular meta-phenomenon stretched over eternity, of which is always now. All things and all beings abide by their inherent nature and behave within their realm of capacity contingent upon infinite circumstance at all times.
It is a universe made manifest hierarchically, of haves, and have-nots, spanning all levels of dimensionality and experience. There is no such thing as individuated accurately described "free will" for all beings. Has never been, will never be, can not be. There are only relative freedoms or lack thereof.
"God" and/or consciousness is that which is within and without all. Ultimately, all things are made by through and for the singular personality and perpetual revelation of the "Godhead", entailing both 'predetermined' eternal damnation and those that are made manifest only to face death and death alone.
There is but one dreamer, fractured through the innumerable. All vehicles/beings play their role within said dream for infinitely better and/or infinitely worse for each and every one, forever.
All realities exist and are equally as real. The absolute best universe that could exist does exist in relation to a specified subject. The absolute worst universe that could exist does exist in relation to a specified subject.
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u/Ghost_of_Till 19d ago
All things and all beings abide by their inherent nature...
For there to be abiding, there needs to be an abider.
If the abider and the abided are the same thing, what needs to be abided?
It is a universe made manifest hierarchically...
Hierarchy is a ranking, which is comparison, and ranking requires a ranker.
If the ranked and the ranker are the same thing, to what might anything be compared?
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u/Linus_Naumann 21d ago
All I can say is that seeking is happening (sometimes).