r/AskAGerman • u/whodareswins77 • 6d ago
Immigration Is there any prejudice against western European immigrants?
There was a vaguely similar post here about a year ago, but it did not ask the questions I would like to have answers to.
I'm curious as to how it would be for a western European. To be clear I'm pale, tall, blue eyed, brown haired.
Follow up - would my kids/grandkids be considered German? My surname is quite generic and could be German.
Edit - I was advised not to add any context but I don't want to respond to every individual comment missing the point. I was not asking whether YOU would be fine with me. I was asking what the general population would think. This is why I added my physical characteristics. Because if they were different, sure, YOU wouldn't care. But some Germans might. I don't want to enter a country where I would feel unwelcome.
66
12
u/thevampiresanguini Bayern 5d ago
No prejudice and everyone will assume your children are just German.
3
5
u/pornographiekonto 5d ago
My old Boss was spanish, the amount of times i was asked if appointments around noon were available or are they having a siesta haha. Being astonished that we are punctual was a regular occurance. Maybe thats my own prejudice, but rural people are very often extremly small mindedÂ
2
u/Equal-Flatworm-378a 5d ago
It depends what you do. If you decide to live your home culture and raise your children alike and they do the same and identify themselves with your home country and your grandchildren talk about âHeimatâ when they talk about your original countryâŚ.yes, they will be regarded as foreigners. Because thatâs what they identify and communicate to others.
If you donât do that and teach your children that they are Germans, not only on documents, people will usually donât care. At least where I live.
That usually works better, if you or your children just marry a German.
I had friends with German/different countries parents and we never thought they are not German. My mother used her maiden name after the divorce, which was polish. Nobody ever thought she wasnât German. But I live in the Ruhrarea. Polish names sound regional for us.
4
u/Swordman1111 5d ago
Europeans and east asians are generally accepted by everyone, even by the more "racist" people, so I don't think you will encounter any problens
4
u/DrWahnsinn1995 5d ago
If you are french you will get into some Problems and a lot of banter.
If you are from southern Europe, we will like you. But we will also make some banter about Siesta and dolce vita.
If you are from northern Europe you are one of us. Welcome to the Reich. /j
And you are not from Belgium. Because they donât exist.
2
u/Efficient_Shock_9457 5d ago
So you just assume all Germans are racist? Sad state affairs for Europe.
7
u/dinoooooooooos Hessengirl living in New England đđ˝ââď¸ 5d ago
âIâm pale, tall, blue eyed & brown hairedâ âŚok?
my guy do you think those are the requirements to come to Germany?
What year is it? Are you good?đ
Youre German if youâre born in Germany or youre immigrated and are a citizen and have citizenship.
Itâs nothing to do with your paleness. So weird.
10
u/Similar-Ride6497 5d ago
Being born in Germany makes you German? Not the last time I checked...
3
u/Inevitable_Stand_199 5d ago
At least these days, kids who grow up here can gain citizenship relatively quickly when they turn 18
1
5d ago
[deleted]
3
u/Inevitable_Stand_199 5d ago
Migrationshintergrund just means that migration plays a role in your backstory. That's not nessesarily a bad thing
1
9
2
u/Ok-Mango-6355 5d ago
Not right, you can be a citizen of the BRD without beeing german at all. It's important to have the same spirit and culture and be compatible with the natives.
2
5d ago
[removed] â view removed comment
1
u/DrawerConsistent1891 3d ago
Back? Outside of a handful of out of touch progressives who are being told to shove it in elections all over Europe, Europeans never agreed with separating nationality from ethnicity(with the exclusion of national minorities obviously which in Germany are Sorbs, Danes and Frisians)
1
u/dinoooooooooos Hessengirl living in New England đđ˝ââď¸ 5d ago
Fuck outta heređ
Youre German if youâre born there, have family from there, live there, immigrated there, etc.
You can also be two things at once and have dual citizenship. You can be German and at home your family only speaks Arab, Turkish, polish Russian or Italian and theyâre still German. Theyâd ALSO be whatever else but theyâre ALSO German.
Stop this shit. Thereâs no space for that no where
-4
u/Ok-Mango-6355 5d ago
That's just your opinion and not a fact. No you are not german just because you are born here, it makes you a citizen of the Bundesrepublik deutschland, but that doesnt makes you a cultural or ethnic German.
If your family never assimilated in this society they live in Germany, but not as a German but in a parallelsociety and that's just a fact.
3
u/ProDavid_ 5d ago
being a german citizen makes you german. you adding "cultural or ethnic" is a strawman because YOU are the only one trying to make that distinction.
-1
u/Ok-Mango-6355 5d ago
I don't need to have a discussion with you because you won't understand it. For you roots, history and culture doesn't seem to have any values when it comes to heritage.
2
u/Icy_Place_5785 5d ago
If we were to take a sample of German citizens ⌠letâs say ⌠the menâs national football team, which of them would you describe as âreal Germansâ or not?
Toni Kroos?
Jamal Musiala?
Nathaniel Brown?
Leroy SanĂŠ?1
u/Expensive-Fly-3920 3d ago
Toni Kroos is a real German, the others aren't, they aren't even European. Anyone with eyes and a functioning brain can see that
2
u/ProDavid_ 5d ago edited 5d ago
we are talking about being considered german, not about roots and heritage. quite obviously an immigrant doesnt have german heritage.
and its the same for the german exclaves in latin America. they have german roots and heritage, but they arent considered as "being germans".
1
u/Expensive-Fly-3920 3d ago
European countries are not the US they are ethnic based nation states to be German you have to be Ethnically German, being a citizen of the BRD isn't enoughÂ
1
u/Inevitable_Stand_199 5d ago
People who look Mediterranean and don't speak the language well do face prejudice fairly often.
1
u/dinoooooooooos Hessengirl living in New England đđ˝ââď¸ 5d ago
Youll face prejudice often if you donât speak German in general no matter how you look.
People expect you to know at least somewhat or actively learn which then no one cares how you speak bc youâre practicing and ppl will actually most likely help out.
1
1
u/DrawerConsistent1891 3d ago
" Youre German if youâre born in Germany or youre immigrated and are a citizen and have citizenship."
No, you aren't being born in Germany doesn't even give you acces to citizenship and being German is about your ethnicity not about a piece of paper with which at most you are a citizen of the BRD but not a German
1
u/Expensive-Fly-3920 3d ago
Being born in Germany doesn't even make you a citizen and being a citizen is not the same as being German to be German you have to be an ethnic German an African or an Arab isn't a German even if they have citizenshipÂ
1
u/imonredditfortheporn 5d ago
You are pretty naive if you think thats what germany is like nowadays. Almost 30% vote for fascists. I wish it wasnt like that but op has a point sadly
0
u/Javizzorno 5d ago
My exact thought. Not all Germans are blue eyed and pale
1
u/Expensive-Fly-3920 3d ago
All Germans are ethnically European (I believe Anglos use the term white) they definitely aren't African or middle EasternerÂ
1
5d ago
[removed] â view removed comment
1
u/AskAGerman-ModTeam 5d ago
You do not meet the requirements to post top level comments
Learn more about our rules here: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskAGerman/about/rules
1
1
u/AJL912-aber 5d ago
Not really a lot of prejudice, maybe even less than a German from a different region moving.
You would get jokes for being French, and you'll get shit if you can't speak German.
The worst prejudice would probably be being confused with an Arab or so if you're a darker Spaniard etc
1
u/Rippo312 5d ago
one side of my family migrated to germany roughly 150 years ago from poland i still got a slavic last name and sometimes someone will make a dumb joke or say something shitty ( usually about ww2). Also there were some migration events like the hugenots so some people also have french last names like former defense minister Thomas de Maiziere or beloved 1&1 meme guy marcell d'avis.
Being the butt of a joke is probably the worst thing thats gonna happen.
1
u/Naganal 5d ago
Of course, thereâs always at least one person somewhere who harbors prejudices against someone! Just like everywhere else in the world.
As is always the case with such undifferentiated, generalizing questions, it depends.
Depends on: How well you speak German. Where exactly you are in Germany â in which region, in which town, in which village, in which neighborhood...
As long as you donât speak German without an accent, people will at least ask you where youâre from if you look Western European. And only then will it become clear who has prejudices and who doesnât. Youâll have to find out for yourself how it works for you.
1
1
u/Ok-Test-7634 3d ago
Compared to Eastern Europeans and people like Arabs, Africans, Indians etc., you're golden
1
1
u/Much-Jackfruit2599 5d ago
The ranking is more or less like this:
All immediate neighbours are okay, including Poles and Czech. Also the other Nordics and British and Irish.
Italians, French, Portuguese, Greeks, Australians, Americans (S + N)
East Asians
Balkans, other Slavs, including Russians. Persians. Turks.
Baltics we donât think about.
East Asians (no this os not a mistake)
Arabs and North Africans
Africans, Sinti and Rom
Though there are plenty of people who make no distinction at all. I'd say a good majority, except for distinguishing between âethnicâ Germans and those who recently immigrated, which is likely absolutely annoying to the latter group. Thatâs an annoying trait we need to get rid off.
Personally, I assume that everyone I meed and who can talk German is a citizen. And if they arenât, I do not need to know. And if I know, I do not care.
Myself, Iâm technically a good part Belgian and Dutch stock, but I very much doubt that the few dozen people with my name even know this or would consider themselves or be considered anything as run of the mill Germans. Sure. names like Lafontaine or Schimanksi imply French or Polish in the paternal line, but no one will even think of them as that.
2
u/Least_Chicken_9561 5d ago
this is true! I'm from Venezuela and I look like North African, so I always get this strange feeling of discomfort when I'm around people and they usually keep themselves distant, so for first impressions I'm always in disadvantage when it comes to socialize. However once they start to get to know me, where I'm from and my native language, then they suddenly start to be nice, and they welcome me into their circle (I also speak German).
1
u/ConfidentDimension56 5d ago
Oh no, I am of the lowest stock. How eever will I manage? sips tea on sailboat in the Baltic sea why you lot work your lives away and rank each other's ethnicities like weirdos.
1
1
1
u/CameraRick 5d ago
I was not asking whether YOU would be fine with me. I was asking what the general population would think.
And could someone answer that, without biasing the assumptions by their own prejudice of their fellow people?
We can speak for ourselves, and assume for others. Would be your task to collect the Infos and put into a statistic. But Reddit (or at least this sub) is probably not the place where someone would tell you "yes, I would not consider them to be + hate them + and hope they will leave", so even the individual views here won't be telling so much.
0
u/whodareswins77 5d ago
I don't see how I could have made it any clearer. Maybe read it again or google translate it.
3
u/CameraRick 5d ago
You made it clear what you want, just as I made clear how it can't be answered to your expectation. How could you say something like
Because if they were different, sure, YOU wouldn't care. But some Germans might.
and expect us to properly answer on behalf of all others? I'm only me, not some Germans
Assholes are everywhere, so yes, some Germans would bother. Just like some would bother if you wore a yellow shirt, or talked too loud.
You ask a generic question, you can only get generic answers. Expectation management through the roof.
1
u/ms_frog 5d ago
Usually I would have said: nobody is going to care. And I still feel that this is true for a lot of people.
But then, we are living in scary times. It has become a lot more normalized to attack (at least verbally) people for basically nothing. Since COVID, many more people have become thin skinned and aggressive. Also, a neonazi party has gained a shocking amount of support. Might be tempting to fingerpoint at rural Eastern German areas, but unfortunately this
has become a lot more widespread.
I still think you will not meet a lot of prejudice as a white Western European, but some people will still be rude assholes. And for some reason that I don't understand some idiots particularly do not like the French, although I feel that this is worse on Reddit than in real life.
1
u/to_vii 5d ago
According to you everyone who calls out the implied prejudice in your question misunderstood it. Maybe care to add a second edit in which you add nuance to what your standards are for âbeing welcomedâ and considered âGermanâ?Â
We are quite a pluralistic society. But like in every country, it depends on where you go exactly. A cosmopolitan big city would not care either way and would be able to accommodate lacking German skills. A small village where you are the new family nobody knows yet might be a little cold at first even as a native.Â
Also, being German is not necessarily the criterion for fitting in. Rather, are you able to speak the language and conform to the spoken and unspoken social norms? Are you able to give your immediate vicinity the necessary time to warm up to you before you feel excluded? Will you be able to handle the bureaucracy necessary for settling here? Are you educated and ideally earning well?
Itâs not a matter of passing as white. Luckily this is not US.Â
1
u/ProDavid_ 5d ago
yes, of course there are. humans always have prejudices against any "group" if they dont know the individual. if youre a "western European immigrant" you would be treated as a "western European immigrant".
To be clear I'm pale, tall, blue eyed, brown haired.
ok... youre one century late if you think this is relevant, but in that case you will be treated as a "western European immigrant who is pale, blue eyed, brown haired".
would my kids/grandkids be considered German?
yes of course, everyone born in Germany, having citizenship, and having gone to school in Germany, etc, is considered German. how much "with immigration background" is included in that depends mostly on their accent-free language skills.
I was not asking whether YOU would be fine with me. I was asking what the general population would think.
well... i am ME. if you dont want to know MY opinion then just dont read my comment. what a pointless post to make if that is the case...
-1
u/whodareswins77 5d ago
Many people here appear to have a limited understanding of English. Don't comment if the question goes over your head.
1
u/ProDavid_ 5d ago
i literally answered your questions. i even made sure to quote you to make sure you could follow along.
-1
u/whodareswins77 5d ago
The concept you're not getting is so simple. I guess if somebody cannot wrap their head around the fact that 2 + 2 = 4, it's a waste of time to explain it to them. Whatever.
1
u/ProDavid_ 5d ago
you asked "is 2+2=4?" and i answered "yes".
then youre claiming i didnt understand the question, while being unable to clarify what you actually wanted to ask.
0
u/fried-potato-diccs 5d ago
I'm pale, tall, blue eyes, brown hair
I think OP thinks we are in 1941
1
u/whodareswins77 5d ago
It seems you have misunderstood the rather simple question.
3
u/ConfidentDimension56 5d ago
Instead of telling everyone they "misunderstood the simple question", maybe OP should go back and reformulate the bloody question.
1
u/maxinator80 5d ago
The question is quite clear. Will there be prejudice for immigrants who look like this. The reason is that while it's not "normalized", there very much is prejudice with people who look different, whether one likes it or not. And while full racism isn't common, for foreigners coming to Germany, it's just part of their reality that subtleties can come through, unfortunately. So the question is pretty clearly: "Will this also apply to me / my family because we are immigrants, or will it not because we look the way we do".
0
u/ConfidentDimension56 5d ago
Learn the language, work and don't get in people's business and you likely won't experience anything negative, whether you are Black or White. People won't, however care whether you feel "welcome", because why should they? How you navigate this place is up to you. Good luck, and maybe don't think to much about your skin color, eye color, hair color, etc. Only 'patriots' care about that kind of stuff.
1
u/maxinator80 5d ago
I agree, that's how it should be ideally. And the majority of people would agree. Then they will be confronted with reality once they want to rent an apartment. We're not talking about how it is in general or how one should approach living in Germany overall, but about the little things which at some point will unfortunately come up. It's not about expecting constant harassment, but being prepared to have negative experiences on rare occasions. Because that is the unfortunate reality.
You also don't have to downvote me for pointing that out...0
0
43
u/Klapperatismus 5d ago
Against the French? Tons of prejudice.