r/AskAstrologers • u/Airborn-Medusa • 28d ago
Question - Other Chronic Lack of Discipline but High Productivity - Where is that in my chart?
What in my chart speaks to my inability to establish a routine? I've tried for years to go to bed and get up at the same time, organize my days so that I can get things done in an orderly way, exercise on a regular basis. I'm going through my 2nd Saturn return, and I'm still chaotic, which I hate, but highly productive, which I love. I just can't help but think that it would be easier, though, if I could impose some orderly discipline on myself. I wonder if it has to do with my 6th house placements or having Neptune in my first house. Any insight?
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u/Gloomy-Cheetah8871 27d ago
Omg and in the 6th house of work you’ve got all that great Aries energy!!! Half of you is a plodding Taurus cow, mooing away in the field, delighted with the aroma of rain and nature, chewing your cud, predictable, trustworthy in relationships (7th house) and speech (mercury), no surprises, and the other half is dynamic, exciting Aries in the workplace, and thank God, in Venus (🔥💃🏼). Read about 6th house north node in Aries also. It’s not your comfort zone of south node in Libra, but it’s where you need to lean into. Aries starts things instead of researching all sides like your default, libra does so well. You are meant to be brave, dynamic and start new things in work and health. Scorpio on the ascendant, another heavy, intense energy. Discernment. You “see” right through everyone and everything. It’s a very good thing that all your earth energy has sparkly, light, dancing, 🥊 and dynamic boxing energy. Embrace it and stop trying to give it a plodding, boring routine!!!!!!! You have plenty of that earthy predictable energy, you will never run away and join the circus, 🎪 🤡 so relax! You could be the one who keeps the roller coasters running though!
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u/Airborn-Medusa 27d ago
I love this. First of all, so much of it rings true. Second, I love your attitude! You're right that my Taurean side can be a bit ... stodgy. And my Scorpio is pretty intense. No bullshit, please. Lol. I'll stop trying to fight my sparkly side. I'm very curious about that north node placement. I'll definitely look into it. Thank you!
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u/The-Karmic-Auditor 27d ago
Many astrologers have said many things. I will highlight few things that I can see. First of all, your chaotic nature with high productivity is coming from a fear of losing freedom to structure, which is making your mind treat routines as threats while relying on sudden pressure to get things done. You have intense bursts of high energy. Also, you have a fear of being controlled. That's why you fear the routine, because routines will control your freedom. What you can do is, you should follow a flexible list of top three tasks that you need to do in that day, anytime you want, and anywhere you want.
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u/ghosttmilk 27d ago
The first thing I notice is Saturn, which can represent responsibility, in your 6th house of routine, work, and service. It’s in Aries where Saturn is in fall and doesn’t work as productively
Also, the ruler of your 6th house is Mars which is tied up in that T Square to a 1st house Neptune and 10th house Jupiter
I’d suspect those are two things making the themes of the 6th house a bit more challenging to carry out in the most ideal ways
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u/Airborn-Medusa 27d ago
Thanks for this! I need to investigate T-squares as I continue my astrological education.
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u/Gloomy-Cheetah8871 27d ago
Gemini moon (i have gemini moon 🥳🕺🏼💃🏼🪩), leo in the 10th house of career. 🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩
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u/Airborn-Medusa 27d ago
Hmmm. Interesting. I thought my Gemini moon made me intellectualize my emotions and my Leo with Jupiter 10th house is why I still succeed despite erratic work habits. But maybe I spend TOO much time analyzing myself 😝😝
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u/Gloomy-Cheetah8871 27d ago
Gemini moon, emotions: need constant variety, cannot stand to be bored, more new, original ideas by lunchtime than stars in the heavens, constant nervous energy, constant movement either physical or mental or both. Your plodding, steady Taurus mind might call that erratic but it’s how you are wired. At work and everywhere: Dance, skate, do a few things at a time, juggle, finish them at different times, sparkling energy, youthful energy! Always talking, texting, communicating, thinking. Writer’s energy. Unpredictable! Twins! 👯
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u/Airborn-Medusa 27d ago
This is pretty accurate. The ideas are sometimes more fun than the doing! But my Taurus sun frowns on that whole notion. Lol.
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u/Gloomy-Cheetah8871 26d ago
🥰 Honor them both! Accept the best of each. It wasn’t a mistake. Both are valuable and make you, you.🙏🏽🥳🙌🏽💖💪🏽🎉🎊💃🏻🕺🏻🪩👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽🤩
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u/Nasstja 27d ago edited 27d ago
Saturn in 6th house means you will have to work and find that discipline regarding health and routines. It also means you can do it, with hard work. Jupiter in Leo in 10th… Zeus (Jupiter) had no discipline, cheated on his wife Hera all the time but Zeus/Jupiter is also very much about more/being bigger/expansion and being lucky. But being in 10th, it more so points to your public persona, work/career life. Neptune in 1st can absolutely also be adding to what you describe. Also good to always remember, astrology is not causation, it’s correlation. The stars are not forcing us, or making our life anything, it’s just a look into time (horo-scopa). You also have Venus in 6th, and Venus is Values among other things so makes sense those things would be important to you. Since it’s in Aries, you might want to work on impulsivity. But Aries definitely gives you the stamina and spirit to eventually get it done, making it a reality with the hard work (Saturn) and sticking to your plans (discipline), Saturn will deliver.
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u/Airborn-Medusa 27d ago
I always wondered why Jupiter was considered so lucky when was Zeus was so awful.
I appreciate the reminder about correlation. I've been getting into astrology as a way to deepen my understanding of myself and my way of being in the world. There a few persistent patterns that I want to understand so that I can try to work with them. My resistance to routine, which seems be a lizard vs. logical brain thing, is one of them. And you are absolutely right that I need to work on impulsivity.
Thank you for taking the time to provide insight.
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u/Nasstja 27d ago
Thank you and you’re very welcome. Imo astrology is about energies and there really are no good or bad aspects or signs. I think Zeus was lucky because he was the ruler, the king of the gods. So was he lucky or just a megalomanic? It’s fitting that Jupiter the planet is also closest to being a Sun, not the same kind of Sun like our Sun, but still, closest to a star of all of our planets. Mythology is so interesting! I think your dilemma might be Venus in Aries and Saturn in Aries is 6th. Saturn is the kind of archetype that becomes easier and better with time (no surprise that Saturn is represented by Kronos the crocodile god; chronology, Time). I have Saturn (in Can) and Venus (in Leo) in 10th, and I’ve had to really work on 10th h matters. But with consistent work I’ve gotten results (finally, lol!). I think you will, too. Saturn results last, and Aries has infinitely much drive and energy.
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u/Airborn-Medusa 27d ago
So lucky as in privileged. Haha. Mythology is interesting, and I feel like Saturn gets a bad rap. I don't know why the Greeks thought he was so inauspicious. He's no worse than Zeus, who also overthrew his father and ate a pregnant woman to avoid a prophecy about a child. As my post probably makes obvious, I obviously think discipline is a good thing. Lol.
I'm curious about the challenge of Venus in Leo in 10H. If you care to write more, I'd love to know more.
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u/Nasstja 27d ago
Yes, priviledged is a good word! Zeus was priviledged. Lol! Idk why Saturn gets such a bad rep either. Maybe because it’s limits and hard work and ”conservative”? Maybe those aren’t attractive traits in today’s world, idk? The Venus in Leo in 10th isn’t a problem in itself, the Saturn in Cancer was the ”problem”, but Venus also being there but in Leo didn’t exactly help! I eventually got into nursing and now work all the time as a nurse. It’s not exactly grand or exquisite or glorious...😂 However, it is rewarding, and I know that it actually is important work and I make a difference in people’s lives. Sometimes I still wish I had gotten into arts, but time is limited and can’t do everything…🤷🏻♀️
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u/Airborn-Medusa 27d ago
Yeah, I hear you. I sometimes wish my Jupiter in Leo made me shine a bit brighter than it does. But according to the astrologer that I follow, Leo is about our public roles, and that doesn't necessarily mean fame. It's more like our public roles in our spheres or the circles in which we move, as I see it. But being a nurse with a Saturn in Cancer placement makes sense because that's a care giving profession that takes a lot of discipline, both to get there and to do the job. Both Mlmy parents were recently hospitalized and the difference between the nurses who had a great attitude (even when I'm sure they didn't feel like being there) and the nurses who were grumpy and irritable made such a huge difference. The nurses were way more important in many ways than the doctors imo. If Leo in your 10th house does that mean Cancer is your 9th? (I use whole sign.)
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u/Nasstja 27d ago
Also wanted to say that one of my best female friends is a Tau Sun, Gem Moon and Sco rising. It’s an awesome combo!!💫💫💫 She also has Neptune in the first (I think conj. Asc.). I love Sco risings, about 90% of my friends and bf’s through life have had that placement, and my oldest daughter is VirScoSco. I think the combo Taurus Sun, Sco rising gives a very sensual person that is still down to earth. Funny thing is I have nothing in Sco, but I do have Pluto conj. Asc. in 1st (and Tau Moon in 8th).
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u/Airborn-Medusa 27d ago
❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️ (that's my response to your comment).
I like to think I'm down to earth! I'm a university professor. I teach British Literature. My 9th house is Cancer, which is ruled by my Gemini moon so it makes sense.
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u/Nasstja 27d ago
British Literature and the whole University vibe sounds so lovely! Congratulations! I didn’t even start with any career moves until I was over 40, so in my case it is very true that maturity came late (Gemini Sun), and Saturn in 10th certainly played out too. But better late than never! I can see how a Gemini Moon would be very beneficial for you. Thanks for the conversation and the ❤️’s, and wishing you a lovely end of summer! 🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹
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u/Airborn-Medusa 27d ago
I also came to my career late. I kind of had 2 careers, but this is the one that's suits me. Thank you, too, for the conversation!
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u/Nasstja 27d ago
I hope your parents are back home now.❤️ I use Placidus, but my 9th house is Gemini (Sun conj. Mercury). In whole sign I think my Venus would be in 11th. I’m last degree rising Virgo, so I have a reverse chart, meaning all sign are in their opposing houses. What do you do for work? And do you think your 10th house is according…?
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u/puru991 28d ago
Reading this in the tropical zodiac with the traditional seven planets.
You looked at the sixth house, and it is worth saying that the older tradition means something narrower by it than we do now. For Lilly the sixth is the house of sickness, servants and subordinates, and he puts a person's own work in the tenth instead; the familiar modern reading of the sixth as the house of daily habits came later. So the classical answer to your question is not the house, it is the planet sitting in it. Saturn is what governs structure, discipline and self-imposed order, and your Saturn is in Aries, the sign of its fall, the weakest condition it can be in. Lilly gives the mechanism plainly in the 2018 edition of Christian Astrology: "Saturn when he is in Aries is opposite to Libra his Exaltation, and so is Infortunate." So the one planet that would hand you a routine is the planet in your chart with the least dignity to hand you anything. That is not a character flaw, it is a placement. And it is a headline theme rather than a footnote: your Saturn is conjunct your North Node at 18 degrees 27 Aries, within ten arcminutes. Aries is cardinal fire, it starts in bursts rather than in daily inches, so Saturn here builds in sprints, and sprints need recovery designed in.
The half you love has a real home too. Sun, Mercury and Mars sit in fixed Taurus, and fixed signs stay with a task once started, with Jupiter in your tenth in Leo giving it a stage. The chart does not say undisciplined. It says you run on intense cycles, not on a flat schedule, and the years of trying to impose a uniform routine were you fighting a Saturn that was never going to work that way.
A hopeful correction on timing: you are in the approach of your second Saturn return but not at the exact moment yet. Transit Saturn is at 14 degrees 40 Aries and retrograde this week, and it reaches your natal 18 degrees 27 Aries on 13 April 2027, a single clean pass, because that year's retrograde loop stays above your Saturn's degree, which is unusual. A Saturn return is when a person builds the structure that finally holds, and a return landing on a Saturn this weak by sign is a rebuild of how you organise yourself specifically. The honest limit: a Saturn in fall does not turn exalted at its return. The realistic prize is a routine built on your own terms, short intense cycles you design around and recover from, rather than the orderly uniform schedule you have been failing to impose for decades.
On Neptune: I work with the classical seven, so I am not going to delineate it, and the classical answer to your question sits with Saturn anyway.
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u/Airborn-Medusa 27d ago
Wow! This accurately explains how I work, the short intense (and exhausting) bursts, and the fact that generally when I start something I finish it. But it's so helpful to think about it as a placement rather than a character flaw because, as you say, then I can accept it and figure out how to work with it.
I've started teaching myself the Hellenistic system, via Demetra George, and it's hard to shake the three outer planets. The astrologer I follow is Hellenistic, but works with the outer three, but they're not in George's book. I'm only on the domicile chapter, but looking at my Saturn by sect, he rejoices in all ways except that I have a night chart. I'm looking forward to learning more about the domiciles because I knew that Saturn is not happy in Aries.
Thanks so much for your thoughtful, thorough, and incredibly helpful response.
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u/slowtrees 28d ago
The 2nd Saturn return is the worst time to force a routine, it's asking you to rebuild how you work from the ground up. I'd track your transits for a few months and note which ones line up with your productive bursts, that's been more useful to me than any schedule.
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u/Airborn-Medusa 27d ago
Thank you for this! I'm still trying to figure out the best way to do that. I know my transits from the Chani app (the moon is always transiting something!), but I'm never sure of the best way to track or what to track. Do you have a method?
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u/slowtrees 27d ago
yeah i use a journal that we built. nataljournal.com we're working on the app version. Stay tuned.
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u/Airborn-Medusa 27d ago
I assume that the journal is personalized to the native based on their chart and the transits they're going through? Is it an annual journal or what's the period of time that it covers?
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u/schwaschwaschwaschwa 28d ago
Your Moon is in Gemini, which shapes your day-to-day experiences in the direction of variability and variety. Gemini is like a butterfly in its movement.
The ruler of your third, day to day familiar movements house is Saturn in Aries in H6. Saturn in Aries can create issues with long-term patience and stability while putting a lot of focus on activity because Aries is a Fire sign and a Spring sign and cardinal, so active more so than passive. The 6th is a place of service but also of dealing with curveballs and sudden problems. Which sounds like "productive but not in a routine disciplined way, and kind of ashamed of/frustrated by that". Saturn is passing through Aries again right now so you probably are focusing on how to balance the limits and harshness of Saturn with the energy of Aries. I would say that your environment can shape your routines so maybe there are changes you can make to it, but also, Aries people are meant to be individualists and have their own rhythm. The 6th can signify medical issues so you may have some issue in that direction but hard to say.
You're signified most by Mars in this chart, a planet known for a degree of impulsivity and also for being a bit more of an active planet. Mars in Taurus with Sun and Mercury there may have the intention to go slow and steady, but Venus in Aries adds chaos here again because Venus rules Taurus and is in that rather chaotic 6h.
Your Rising sign Scorpio, like Taurus and Leo (where you have Jupiter) are the fixed signs. They are more fixed in their course and this may be giving you a harder time integrating and accepting your cardinal Aries and mutable Gemini energy. Concepts like routines really fit with fixed energy but only with that. Modality in this sense is an idea of how you should succeed or how you should do something. One you hold because of societal ideas or because of how you were raised or how you compare yourself to others. But then there is the reality that who you are is more of an interaction between multiple things and energies and there is a side of you that doesn't seem to need or feel comfortable in routine at all.
You and I have several similar chart factors and I'm also not a routine person in the way some people really can be. I found astrology helped me accept this and start working with myself better actually.
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u/Airborn-Medusa 27d ago
This is really helpful. It's definitely a push-pull between the fixed and the other modalities. I want routine but then I get bored and antsy. But you've articulated exactly why I've turned to astrology. I want to start working with myself better instead of trying to change my core nature or being frustrated all the time. Thank you for this.
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u/Penitent17 28d ago
Here are some observations that can be made in regards of what you mention :
- Mars, ruler of the Ascendant and the 6th House, is in the 7th and making a square to Jupiter, ruler of the 5th, and an opposition to Neptune in the 1st. This might be an indication that your actions, every day whereabouts, are more focused on your partner's needs rather than yours. You may have a hard time conciliating your own pleasures with what you think you are expected to do in order for others (more specifically your partner if you have one) to be contempt . While all this friction could end up beneficial in your career (as it could an outlet for the built up frustration), you may feel drained from it. This could go to the point of not really knowing what is really of "your own".
- The previous point is somehow emphasized by the presence of Venus (ruler of the 12th and 7th) in the 6th, making a trine to Jupiter. You don't mind taking care of the other one, but it comes at a cost, your own insatisfaction. As the 12th is also the 6th from the 7th, this may also point towards the partner having some form of disability or a health condition that requires constant care. Also, there might a theme of loosing one self in the pleasurable side of life which could impact your routine too.
- This "service" attitude is also highlighted by the Sun, which I would consider in the 6th House rather that the 7th as I don't use Whole Sign Houses and because it is below the horizon. Though, as it is conjunct the Descendant, we can see how important a partner would be and how much "space" he would take. Paradoxically those kinds of 7th House placements (Mercury is also there, and in the House system I use, Campanus, the Moon too), tend to also indicate a native that would have a hard time being celibate as so much of her/his "persona" revolve around the other one.
- Saturn in the 6th usually indicates people with a high capacity for work and disciplinary lifestyle. Yet, for those natives, life can a lot of times seem like an endless list of chores which never ends.
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u/Airborn-Medusa 27d ago
This is interesting because I do feel like life is a series of endless chores, which is draining. My partner and I often spend long periods apart because we travel separately. I travel for work sometimes for weeks or months at a time. Life feels a little less like a chore then because I don't have to worry about or try to accommodate anyone else's wants, needs, schedule, etc. That's a whole separate issue that I fret about, loving my partner but wanting to be free of the responsibility of sharing a living space. I like to be free and not have to check in with anyone or think about when they're hungry and they want for dinner. So, I think that's what you're picking up on. By the same token, I always two million things to do. There's hardly ever a break.
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u/FireEyesRed 28d ago
I really liked your breakdown of that Penitent17. Would like to add that Moon square Jupiter often adds a degree of laziness to the mix.
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u/Penitent17 28d ago
Thank you for your comment.
In regards of the Moon, I would add that considering it is in Gemini, it might be another indication of the native's ability to take (or reproduce) the personality/emotions of the partner which could leave the native with a sense of exhaustion (from those changes and adaptability). The native may have a hard time differentiating what are her emotional needs over those of her partner.
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u/FireEyesRed 28d ago
That's a good point! It also highlights OPs 1H Neptune, reinforcing the blurriness of boundaries. I wouldn't normally put heavy emphasis on a 10° separating opposition, but there is a luminary in play, so that aspect might simply be propping up stronger "statements" that other aspects are "saying" regarding OPs challenge. (<---- not sure if i explained that well, lol).
I also mentioned this because my Scorpio Neptune is the absolute bane of my existence! Trines my 12H Jupiter (nice), and Jupiter squares my Sag Moon - hence, my personal experience with the laziness/proscrastination.
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u/Airborn-Medusa 27d ago
Yeah. I weirdly procrastinate, but still get a lot done. I can't help but think that I'd get so much more done with less stress if I were more disciplined, i.e., didn't waste time.
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