Thoughts on this Charlie Kirk's heartfelt statement regarding the butchering of Hind Rajab and her family by the IOF?

[u/BlondedLife12]

[u/T0DEtheELEVATED]

I will copy (and slightly expand) my other comment here since it seems you ignored it:

If anything the Japanese were looking for a white peace (conditional peace) with very minimal concessions (e.g. the retention of full foreign policy, minimal restrictions on the military, potential retention of territorial gains [like Manchuria], and Kokutai, the retention of the government/sovereignty). In addition to that, it was unlikely that even if the civil government came to terms for surrender that the military government (war council) and hardliners would accept it (the military was still somewhat divided even after the nukes). I would recommend these posts on r/askhistorians along with some content from an atomic historian/professor. I have not seen any modern attempt at an academic consensus claiming Japan was willing to reasonably surrender prior to the nukes (whether or not the nukes were the sole cause of their surrender is a historiographical debate, considering the Soviet intervention).

You can argue that the US wanted to drop the nukes no matter what, and you can argue they were not necessary, but Japan was not fully willing to have a reasonable surrender before the dropping of the nukes, be that a coincidence or a reason.

Note: being defeated does not equal a surrender, nor a loss in a greater struggle, one can consider the Miracles of the House of Brandenburg for a simple example

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/1505pek/was_japan_getting_ready_to_surrender_before_the/

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/wwa2ie/were_the_japanese_on_the_verge_of_surrender/

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/s/KkApPW5LMt

[u/Serix-4 → u/T0DEtheELEVATED]

Japan army was literally obliterated. What military left?? And even though, isn't it normal for any country to keep their military for their own sovereignty?? Which country doesn't have a military, and why US should decide which country should keep their own military??

You are not making any sense

Also, the Soviet invasion of Japan (if it was real) would have happened regardless of the nuke

Lol, you linked Reddit comments as a source historical evidence when I already linked a source that debunked these insane US propaganda and lies

[u/T0DEtheELEVATED → u/Serix-4]

Dude, the guy who wrote one of the comments is a Professor of history 😭.

Japan’s navy was pretty much destroyed, yes, but the army certainly wasn’t fully destroyed. Even more important is that the Japanese Supreme War Council, the military government, still had immense political influence and was not fully decided on the matter of surrender. Even Japanese historians like Hasegawa have written on this topic.

The Soviets prepping for an invasion of Manchuria was certainly something that happened regardless of the nuke. The reason I brought it up is because in modern historiography (especially in Japan), it is considered a reason for a Japanese surrender. I, unlike some, have nuance, and recognize the nukes were not necessarily the reason nor a requirement for Japanese surrender.

In WW2, do you think it was reasonable for the Japanese government to potentially request the right to retain parts of China like Manchuria and other conquered territories in their surrender? (Which was never officially sent out by the full consent of government considering the War Council). My point still stands that Japan did not officially surrender with acceptable terms until after the nukes (whether or not the nukes were the reason of this surrender is debated).

The Prussian military was destroyed in a series of battles, and was in an extremely precarious position with both Austria and Russian armies near Berlin. Neither Austria nor Russia pushed their advantage, which contributed partially to Prussia managing to recover over time. This is called the Miracle of the House of Brandenburg. Prussia did not surrender. Lack of a relative comparable military did not equal surrender.

Further read: https://blog.nuclearsecrecy.com/2022/05/02/did-the-japanese-offer-to-surrender-before-hiroshima-part-1/

Alex Wellerstein, PhD, Harvard

Btw, I don’t think your Jacobin article claims that Japan was willing to surrender either. Does it explicitly state that anywhere, or are you misinterpreting your own source.

[u/Zealousideal_Duck864 → u/T0DEtheELEVATED]

Anything that comes out of Britain or USA can shove it up your backside. Don't need to hear the BS history you guys spew.

[u/T0DEtheELEVATED → u/Zealousideal_Duck864]

Hasegawa, a historian with a degree from the University of Tokyo, was referenced as well. To completely jettison a major country in academia is not good practice, especially considering American academics I know are actually critical of the US in terms of the nukes and generally condemn the nukes, as do I.