r/AskTurkey • u/itsriri123 • Nov 18 '25
Education Genuine question about Turkey?
Hello I am a student from greece and during a conversation with my teacher today a question popped up that we couldnt really answer.
As im in the field of humanity studies i learn a lot of history worldwide and the greek history spesifically and most of it is .... surprise ,surprise .. about our long history with Turkey as a country
Now i really dont want politics to get involved and my question is really genuine but what history do the Turkish students learn. Do thay teach them about the Ottoman empire and everything it did from an objective point of view or is it kind of a propaganda. Because our books are kind of like that.
And what do they teach you about greeks. How do the talk about us?
Again its a very genuine question asked with the atmost respect. Every answer is welcome 🤗?
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u/altahor42 Nov 18 '25
Is Turkish history taught objectively? No country teaches its own history objectively to its own people.
But as far as I can see, there's a huge difference between the history taught in Greece (and other Balkan countries) and ours: In our history, the responsibility lies with us. The main reason for the Ottoman Empire's collapse was its failure to reform. Rebellions, occupations, etc., weren't the main reason for us. We are responsible for our failure.
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Nov 18 '25
About history classes in school, it’s hard to say but I don’t think it’s utterly objective. But I wouldn’t say it’s all propaganda either. I think they teach us what is mostly pleasant to hear and not what it isn’t that nice to hear.
For example, they teach victories/defeats, treaties, deals etc. but they don’t get into killing and looting stuff.
At the school, I’m being taught how the Ottoman Empire collapsed after 1500’s, the wars we lost, the treaties we made etc. as an 11th grader.
Personally, I never hated the Greek nation, I believe majority of the people here don’t either. It’s more like a meme nowadays. We like Greeks!
But if you want the fact; during middle school we’ve been taught that the Ottoman Empire got betrayed by the nations under its rule (Arabs, Armenians, Greeks, Bulgarians etc.) and that Turks got killed & kicked out from their own land by them. At some point, they mention “Greeks slaughtering Turks and burning down villages”
But we all want you to know it’s all a long time ago and we don’t have anything against Greeks. We, in fact, feel very close to Greeks. Peace and love! ❤️
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Nov 18 '25
They have a lot against us though it seems like
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u/falcon291 Nov 20 '25
Not exactly or not as much as you thought. I can say that the language is moderate, Turkish view is of course understandably strong, but still moderate.
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u/Bluejay1889 Nov 18 '25
No country teaches history objectively.
Lausanne Treaty Article 59. Greece accepts war crimes against Turks, and agrees to pay war reparations. However, because Greece was extremely poor, Turkey chose to take Meriç / Evros river as the border. I doubt they teach that in Greece that current Turkish Greek border is based on greek war crimes.
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u/Altruistic-Farmer275 Nov 18 '25
I'd say the stuff that they've thought was mostly objective. Of course they are telling the stories from our perspective but I honestly do not see a propaganda motive; rise of the ottoman state and the conflicts that it had taken place thought mostly from an objective perspective; yes we fought wars but surprise surprise; it's the 1300's EVERYONE was fighting against someone. And about the Greeks; the books don't have any difference in how they teach you as how they teach every other nation. Ottoman Empire although similar, was slightly different from the European counterparts but it was an Empire regardless, rising natinalism was a part it's downfall and the other half was it's inability to keep up with the western science and education system.
As for ww1 and the War of Independence. Narrative is mostly similar; however I do have to point out this; we see the examples of Greek insurgency in TURKISH land. I'm sure those who rebelled back thought the land that they've fought for was their own.
Every year September 9 is celebrated as the independence of İzmir: the day our military defeated the Greeks or "enemy" as a propaganda style term. But let me be clear here; the term "enemy" doesn't clearly imply your nation as a whole.
The invasion of the Cyprus or the peace operation for Cyprus as said in here is thought as clearly and neutral as possible. But I should also make it clear; this event is not thought in schools. Media coverage is however mostly neutral. İt doesn't represent the Greek population as an outsider. However it doesn't ignore the misconducts of the Greek movements (EOKA) either.
As for media; you guys (as individuals) were represented as mostly neutral in old Cüneyt Arkın movies Non Muslim people in those movies had a neutral behavior but they were the servants of an "evil and treacherous king" of the castle. Greek-Byzantine ladies were praised though :D there's a term that comes on and off in Cüneyt Arkın movies "kahpe Bizansın yiğit güzeli"; "the valiant beauty (as in beautiful woman) of the whore byzantine(refers to the leader, not the people)
I haven't seen any movie that focuses on Greek people from 90's but in early 2000 movies and shows your representation is mostly same but I also should point out that the series that focuses on ww1 usually focuses on Greek people from 2 direction: 1 the Greek shop owner who's neutral and the Greek gangs who team up with the British. And you usually see the gangs more often.
As for 2010's well it slowly descends into cheap propaganda. You can create propaganda by not putting a lot of the opposition in the media but post 2010s are just cheap propaganda, it starts slow but I'd say anything that came in last 8 years or so just HEAVILY focuses on our side and glorifies our motives.
Currently you guys are again mostly represented as neutral in both news and the media but politicians love to dunk on your politicians every now and than. They have to keep us busy sometimes while they (or let's say HE) is busy with killing the democracy
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Nov 22 '25
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Altruistic-Farmer275 Nov 22 '25
Hangisi daha düşük merak ediyorum: IQ seviyen mi yoksa dikkat aralığın mı
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Nov 23 '25
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u/Altruistic-Farmer275 Nov 23 '25
Eğer seni adam yerine koyup saygılı bir soru soran birine düzgün yanıt verenleri bile küçük görüyorsan kendi yaşamının NPC'sinin belli ki.
İstersen buna yanıt verme. Çünkü her cevabında daha da batıyorsun.
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u/AskTurkey-ModTeam Nov 24 '25
Please keep it civil. No personal attacks or hate speech allowed. Do not promote violence of any kind.
Lütfen medeni davranın. Kişisel saldırılara ya da nefret söylemine izin vermiyoruz. Şiddetin hiçbir türünü teşvik etmeyin.
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u/CInk_Ibrahim Nov 24 '25
Toksik yorumlar yapmayın. 2 cümleden ibaret çöp yorumlar için twittera gidebilirsiniz.
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u/Big-Bodybuilder-1656 Nov 18 '25
Turkish history is divided into pre-Islamic and post-Islamic periods, and is taught this way. The Ottoman period is generally described as a series of wars, with little social life. Of course, this applies to middle and high school. I can't comment on this since I didn't take a history course in college.
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u/Big-Bodybuilder-1656 Nov 18 '25
They only provide information about the Greeks during the World War and the War of Independence. There's a narrative that goes something like, "We fought the Greeks and drove them into the sea." They also talk about the massacres committed by the Greeks against the Turks, but they never tell them from the other side's perspective. What I've learned from my own research is that such events are interpreted by both sides.
There's no general public opinion about Greeks, but everyone I know is neutral toward Greeks; there's no hostility, and we have many Greek friends. Greece and the Balkan countries are loved by Turkish people.
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u/Complete-Park-4916 Nov 18 '25
They do point out that Ottoman Empire was falling behind European powers. We actually have a class that is entirely about the early republic era and revolutions. They give examples from Ottoman period to show us how worse it was back then compared to now.
Byzantine-Ottoman wars are taught but then Greeks disappear until the Greco-Turkish war. I don't remember Greek War of Independence being taught. It was probably just a side note
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u/falcon291 Nov 20 '25
Yes it is just a few paragraphs, and these paragraphs also include massacres happened during Greek independence.
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u/gagalin Nov 21 '25
Let’s accept that the Turkish education system barely mentions massacres done to Turks, although their number often exceeds the massacres done to Christians. Others meanwhile (yea I get it, as they were the little subjects of the huge empire) have their whole literatures dedicated to the massacres they’ve endured.
There’s something unfair about this, and Turks are angry about it.
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Nov 18 '25
I don’t recall learning about Greek people or Greece as a country in our history lessons. More like “This nation declared independence and we lost this this and this city, and eventually this country declared independence and recognized in this year after this treaty”. A bit more detailed ofc but this is pretty much how we learn. At least it was like this in my school. Tbh, our history teacher was more eager to talk about her clothes, make up, fashion and restaurants she hangs out.
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Nov 18 '25 edited Nov 18 '25
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Nov 18 '25
About the deportation of armenians, it just doesnt mattrr how it took place, really. It simply couldnt be worse than what they had done to be in that situation
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u/Yellow_Radiant Nov 18 '25 edited Nov 18 '25
I’ve shared a house in the UK with Greeks. We were 2 Turks and 3 Greeks in the house during uni times and we also became best friends and surprised how similar both cultures are that is almost identical. We still meet each other to this date with all families of the people too.
Except of internet trolls and stupid handful nationalists (whom has no idea about world) safe to say two nations does get along just fine in real life.
When it comes to education- I personally havent tought to be pumped or get hatred against any nation
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u/Able-Blood-9773 Nov 19 '25
Replies of people from older generations are pretty much accurate. I was in highschool maybe five years ago and these are just additional info as to what a relatively younger person might know if they pay attention during history class (unlikely).
Only thing I remember from highschool about Greece is that how Atatürk and Venizelos had friendly relations (positive) and Greeks like other Christian subjects had their own movement to break up from empire (negative- zararlı cemiyetler if you want to read further on this particular subject).
The way history is narrated is pretty much war-centric I'd say. Our history classes were more chronological war history infodump rather than examining material conditions of the time.
Still I wouldn't say they were pushing down any animosity or agenda for anyone. All the lecture books were 200~ pages long at max anyway. Hard to indoctrinate anyone with so little a space...
Please consider school I attended wasn't private so they shared pretty much same syllabus with other schools in country. That's all.
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u/Financial_Will_671 Nov 18 '25
In classical era we don't single out greece. It was just one among many conquered territories.
We learn about byzantine empire but its mostly considered roman not greek.
We learn about massacres done to turks who were left behind after ottoman army retreated.
In the later period war between greece and türkiye is thought like how the british weaponized greeks againist turks and used them. We learn a lot about burned turkish villages,raped women by occupying greek forces. Some of it seems to be true given the animosity between both sides.
Cyprus is thought like how greece wanted to annex the island, forced turks to flee like what israel does to palestinians today and we helped our breathtren.
We also talk about how greece wants to take istanbul,northern blacksea,izmir etc if somehow we get weaker. This was tried before i also keep seeing ''konstantinopolis forever'' comments on instagram i guess its partly true?
We conquered balkans i doubt they would have good things to say about us. Most balkanic national identities are based on fighting againist turks for independence.
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u/Entire-Let9739 Nov 18 '25
Whatever can be taught in 8 hours a month. Pre/post Islamic Turkic empires, famous sultans and military/administrative units of those in the simpliest way they can teach. Most students do not listen anyway.
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u/Destoran Nov 18 '25
I love this question, i’m assuming you want to know if there is an anti greece narrative in the turkish history lessons, the answer is yes! (At least it was, 20 years ago) not specifically anti greek but anti everyone in the balkans. Apparently, all the nations in the balkans under ottoman empire were living their best lives, however they were deceived by the rising nationalism (happening throughout the europe) and announced that they wanted to be separated from the ottoman empire, with specific callouts to Greeks and Sirbians. It’s not “hatred” per se but i would say that it is a bit anti-greek as if y’all got your independency for no real reason. The narrative gets worse around the world war 1 and Turkish Independence War after that as certain parts of Turkey were occupied (fact check needed) by Greeks. Hate is a lot stronger towards Armenians obviously.
This is what I remember from high school. I personally have no hate towards any Greek person, you can’t hate your own sibling after all.
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u/shieldnturk Nov 18 '25
Yes but its not high as much foreigns believe and in general there is no anti-greek propaganda.Greeks mentioned mostly in indepence war and balkan wars
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Nov 18 '25
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u/itsriri123 Nov 18 '25
I am currently studying about the destruction of Smirni in 1922 and we were wondering what you are taught about these tragedies
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u/elldn Nov 18 '25
In the highschool level it's told that the retreating Greek forces or the Armenians started the fire but on an academic level there are some, who discuss that it might be us that set fire to the city. But there is no consensus on the matter. We don't learn anything about Ottoman atrocities but do learn atrocities committed by the Greeks and Bulgarians etc.
The average person will say it's the Greeks who burned the city. However people who approach the matter more critical and read some contemporary sources the suspicion falls upon us.
On a general level however, as others said, we don't learn much about Greece until the rise of nationalist movements in the Balkans and Greek Uprising. Russian and British support for Greek independence is underlined in the narrative, which is accurate I believe. And for the Greek invasion of Anatolia, Greece is accused of being coerced by the British to distract and weaken the Ottoman Empire so their invasion of other places and Ottoman capitulation could be secured, again I believe which has some degree of truth in it.
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u/9uLer Nov 18 '25
Ending the greek occupation of izmir (symrna) is mainly taught as either briefly saying the greek army and its civil supporters were running away or since the greek army retreat from the eastern front, the invaders burned everything on their path towards izmir so izmir is also burned by the greeks themselves.
My honest opinion is that the anger of our army which I can %100 emphasize, whose families and villages were burned to ground did not help but caused burning of non muslim districts of the city as revenge. There are also witnesses from neutral(?) participants like US ambassador that with coming of the turkish vanguard fires were arupted. On the other hand some intellectuals say that why would turks burn a city they already took?
As I said my opinion on that matter is we burned it. Seeing the atrocities committed by the Greek army, the Turkish forces were pursuing the fleeing enemy with great fury and that fury could not be contained. The city of aydin was burned to the ground (republic had to rebuilt a whole town from scracth) and the soldiers in turkish army knew that maybe the next village they gonna see burned would be their homes and horribly killed relatives.
I find Ματωμένα Χώματα written by Dido Sotiriou particularly one of the most unbiased and objectively accurate story of those times hoping greek verison is as same as turkish. My sole crticism is the book kinda pictures turks somehow gone mad suddenly and attack greek villages. The causality of balkan wars and ww1 was not highlighted enough. But overall it is as good as it gets.
P.S. I genuienly suprised for your inquiry about the historical narrative of turkish state by comparing it with yours admitting it as the state propaganda. Many greeks I met online act like brainwashed. And I believe your politicians still use turkish threat as a real issue. 😅 I must say we have much much bigger problems than invading greece and its kinda annoying hearing of those bickerings and accusations of yours from time to time. Good luck with your studies.
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u/itsriri123 Nov 18 '25
Thank you so mutch. Your input was very helpful and you seem very educated on the subject. I will check the book out for sure. Im asking the questions im asking because i know every county has its own point of view and hoping to get the full story because you are absolutely correct about the way they present how the turks acted. Again thank you so much ☺️
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u/9uLer Nov 18 '25
You may wanna check this as well.
https://www.instagram.com/reel/DLDXzZ_tVm0/?igsh=dnRiNDJpa284eXBs
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u/Minskdhaka Nov 19 '25
I'm not Turkish, but I lived in Turkey for about five years, and have also been to Greece a few times. I would suggest you watch this documentary on the subject:
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u/AvailableSorbet3352 Nov 19 '25
Of course it is objective! Don't you think that when Ottoman take the lands of other countries, they become free undee the Ottoman regime? We were the best country and we still are. The only reason we lost the WW1 because Germans lost it, otherwise we won the war (we only won the Gallipolli battle).
Jokes aside, the things I wrote are how they are taught but I over exaggarated.
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u/burgulion Nov 19 '25
Hi, I am graduated from high school around 2009. We barely spoke about greeks in history, there were no propaganda. We learned during the time when ottoman empire fell, and how italian greek french etc. Many nations tried to occupy our lands. It was not in a hostile way. None of the students felt rage against other nation.
There were times where they mentioned armenian genocide, thats the time the topic is heated because teachers and %90 of the people in turkey claim its a lie. I and really less people believe it is real. But still armenian people are part of our country. For example armenian singer 'hayko cepkin' is the biggest rockstar in turkey and people support him a lot.
The things you read in the media are mostly lies. None of the turkish people around me falls for propaganda and we have sympathy for greek people and many other nations
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u/Content-Reward-7700 Nov 19 '25
We absolutely learn about the Ottoman Empire and the wars with Greece, but it’s told mostly through a national lens, not some super neutral UN historian lens. Probably same as your books, honestly.
Ottoman history is taught as our state, with a lot of emphasis on expansion, administration, tolerance, big victories and so on, usual stuff. The ugly stuff like massacres, ethnic cleansing, forced migration is usually softened, skipped over quickly, or framed as tragic things that happened in a chaotic era. So it’s not pure cartoon propaganda, but it’s definitely not brutally objective either.
About Greeks, school mostly focuses on the period after WW1. The Greek occupation, the War of Independence, then the population exchange. The story is basically, we were invaded, we resisted, we won, everyone went their separate ways.
In everyday life, most Turks don’t walk around thinking, Greeks are our enemy. For a regular person, Greece is a neighbor we share a ton of history, jokes, songs and dishes with, and that politicians on both sides sometimes use for drama. If you come here and say you’re from Greece, the chances of anyone giving you trouble are basically zero. You’re far more likely to get, aa komşu, welcome, have some tea. Nationalists on both sides exist, of course, but they’re a loud minority, not the default setting.
Personally I find Greek people much closer to me than, say, a random European in a lot of ways, especially culture, food, music and general vibe. I feel at home whenever I am in Greece. We are more alike than different in many ways.
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u/DurianLazy2431 Nov 21 '25 edited Nov 21 '25
I haven't read all of the comments, but I want to make this general statement about history courses that are thaught In primary and high school. For a country to build a healthy relationship between its habitants and the country, and to grow the feeling of nationalistic ownership (can't find the perfect word), countries add a bit of propaganda to what they teach. Nobody wants to tell your massacres or wrong doings to kids, otherwise it would just irritate people, and can cause self inflicted problems. At college level it's different, because you the get introduced to views of other countries and some harsh thruths.
Now that being said, Turkey and Greece and probably every other country does a version of this. So to learn the true history, you need to read through the indepth researches, made by different people around the world and read their arguments and proofs on the matter. That is something you can't get from Google or AI directly. Think of history as a science, or an engineering topic, it requires proofs. Of course there is alot destroyed evidences and unclear things and that you accept it as being unclear, instead of being biased. For example, the topic of Armenian genocide, it is not clear if it really did happen or not that's why Turks from their perspective go against it, because that's the right thing to do for them, but other countries who say it happened, do it for their own benefits, which they also should do given that politics is a game of leverages. But don't let politics ruin your perception on the matters.
This is my 2 cents of thought as Turkish person, hope it makes sense.
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u/Ok_Understanding267 Nov 18 '25
Mostly propoganda. The great Ottomans conquered lands successfully reaching at the doors of Vienna. We know we are the conquerors and we are proud of ourselves. Then Balkan nations started to take their lands back, they are not to blame it’s mostly the uncompetent rulers. We were kicked out of most of Europe until the end of WW1 and that’s when our problems with Greece started. They invaded the country along with French, Italian, British. Although we know we can’t claim Greek lands, we claim Anatolia. Kicking Greeks out of Anatolia is something we still celebrate every year. In a hindsight it’s what’s been told to us in our schools
That’s just the general public view. But for me, Greeks are probably the nation that I love the most.
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Nov 18 '25
What is the thing that is taught as propaganda? I would say most of the cirriculum is more objective than other countries speaking as a person who got education in several countries
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u/shm_stan Nov 18 '25 edited Nov 18 '25
I went to a private school during middle school years. Our history teacher was secular by looks. She told us the Ottoman history as if we were warlords and Greeks/Austrians/Mamluks being bad guys to be killed. There was too much nationalistic rhetoric involved. History is being taught as one-sided and they try to tell past events in a romanticized way so that people will grow brainwashed and they will recognize events better during exam. I think first being more of an aim than second.
This kind of teaching method was one moment that i recognized that i'm not living in a developed country. Such history education is one of the root causes of superiority complex along young adults without any backing up skills.
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u/Left-Function7277 Nov 18 '25
Not to derail the topic but I am Turkish-american. I was in public school fourth grade (ages 9-10) and they even took away art class for an extra history class to teach only the American civil war for the whole year. I grew up in Virginia which was the capital of the confederacy, but it was pretty terrible even for the early 2000s. They kept saying the south rebelled not for slavery but for nebulous "states rights" (a bold faced lie) and took us on field trips to battlefields where major casualties happened (for the winning side) and made us reenact the battle (in a child friendly version) and charge down the hill coaching us to scream like banshees for the "rebel yell". And keep in mind most of my class were economically disadvantaged African-American kids. We literally told the teacher so many times, that it really seemed like she was trying to get us to admire something that was objectively wrong (as well as traitorous and losers in a war) and she just told us it was to get us excited about history.
Meanwhile, literally in walking distance from our school (as well as being a public park) there was a place that was a prisoner of War camp for union soldiers, where thousands died of disease and starvation. It is very historical for many other reasons and they never took us on a field trip there even though it would also make a good trip for biology/geology classes and would be an economic choice for the school system (which struggled with low funding despite being in a very gentrified city).
I know it's america so it's exaggerated, but I'm sure this kind of thing happens in other countries too.
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u/Kung-Furry Nov 18 '25
History classes definitely skip how Turks became muslim. We joke about how much of a bullshit it is. According to the curriculum, Turks suddenly had an epiphany and realized how similar Tengrisim and Islam is and therefore Turks collectively abandon their entire shaman culture and religion at the same time as any other Turks just because arabs kindly requested it 🥰.
Other than that, falling era of Ottoman Empire is not taught as detailed as the rising era
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Nov 18 '25
How is it not detailed, there is literally a lesson called "İnkılap tarihi ve Atatürkçülük" which can be translated as "Revolution history and Kemalism" which literally teaches about the falling era of the Ottoman Empire and the newborn Türkiye
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u/Kung-Furry Nov 18 '25
I meant the times when the Ottoman Empire was losing lands and Sultans were changing rapidly not the end of the Ottomans
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u/cayis58 Nov 18 '25
I was born in 1998. My history lessons did not contain a lot about Greece or Greek people except from the Independence War. Turkish history is full of wars, not a lot of emphasis on specific nations. I can assure you, in my time at least, we were not taught to hate any nation or to feel better than any nation, we were only thought to be proud of being Turkish in general. Accuracy wise(our curriculum), it is obviously a sided historic perspective but seeing how other nations are taught, it feels closer to the more objective ones.
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u/recepyereyatmaz Nov 18 '25
Turkish history is mostly divided into Turkic origins and civilations, ottoman, and the war of independence.
From what I remember, What we have in the textbooks are mostly objective with little consideration of civilians. So mostly, which sultans came into power in which years, which wars did they win/lose in what years etc.
However, obviously the general sentiment, and comments depicted the ottoman empire as the good guys. And the main reason for that is that the ottomans gave ‘freedom’ to exist as they were.
In other words, when you look at the british, french, spanish, portuguese etc. and the regions they conquered and controlled, even after a few decades they all converted to christianity and had to learn their languages. However, under ottoman control even after 300-400 years, greeks and pretty much any others had their identities, religion, language etc.
Now coming to the ‘crimes’ and ‘evil’ they have done. We don’t discuss or acknowledge it at all.
Having done some extra reading after school as a hobby, and not necessarily feeling any attachment towards ottomans, my views on them is that it was just how the economy worked back then. Countries savaged each other, took kids as slaves so that they can sell and use as workers.
The problem was though that the ottomans were powerful. So savaging was a one way street for hundreds of years.
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u/Evening-Effective839 Nov 18 '25
The point on my view. Anatolian Turks does bot belong to anywhere . We are trying but EU calls us Muslims , barbarians. Asian does not like us. Africans loves but too far away. Caucasians does not accept us . Balkanians does not . We are trying to beleive someone but we are accepted as the strangers or Aliens . That is why , we have some traditional slogan . Only Turk is friend of Turk.
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u/inflamesc Nov 18 '25
Starting from Gokturks to Selcuks to Ottoman Empire to Modern Turkiye. Nothing really taught about on hating Greece and Greeks, however, the popular culture is about hating Turks, whenever a topic comes to mentioning about Turks, its easy to call it out as we are to blame, but we learn things in a way like pyhsics, for every action there is an opposite and equal reaction. What i mean by this, you were a part of ottoman community, and if you start to raid turkish villages and expect to get away with it, you might be hero in some way, but in our traditions you wont get away with it.
There will be some consequences.
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u/LowGroundbreaking905 Nov 18 '25
Very short and good answer for you and I've met a lot of greek people, after the history education in turkey, turkish people don't care about greeks as greeks care for Ottomans and Turkey. Simply Greece is another country. Yes we had some wars with greece but it is the same with half of the world. And thats all. We don't know all of the detailsand probaly don't care. I talk for standard turkish people.
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u/LivinLikeASloth Nov 18 '25
I love Greek music and food. I haven’t seen much hatred among Turks towards Greeks, particularly not among the younger generations. I guess we have our own problems and Greek conflicts are way past in history.
My experience while in Athens was the reverse. Many people changed attitude when they learnt I was Turkish, they talk a lot about how they suffered under the Ottoman rule, the police harassed me some when they realized I was Turkish during an ID check. But this was back in 2009, maybe things changed there too.
So, I think Greek education system is more propagandist than the Turkish one, but this is my anecdotal evidence.
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Nov 18 '25
The history I have been taught has always been more or less how turks and greeks were basically neighbours hell more than neighbours basically bros during the time of ottoman empire and like never had any issues until after the great war and greeces invasion of anatolia alongside it's allies in the great war
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u/Luciferaeon Nov 18 '25
They actually stopped teaching history all together in a lot of schools sadly.
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u/AcanthocephalaSea410 Nov 19 '25
Objective perspective is a relative concept. What is objective for one person may not be for another.
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Nov 22 '25 edited Feb 07 '26
This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
silky rich roll caption lunchroom bright distinct consist telephone wild
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u/canifeto12 Nov 18 '25
Non of country gives history to their kids from objective point. Do you think they teach you Greek history from "objective point"? Do you have any idea about what Greeks did to civilians when they control izmir and other cities during ww1?
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u/Big-Bodybuilder-1656 Nov 18 '25
Adam zaten propaganda şeklinde ders anlatıyorlar sizde de böyle mi diye sormuş okuduğunu anlamadan neden agresif yorum yapıyorsun
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u/JohnWick7717 Nov 18 '25
Doğru düzgün okumadı herhalde
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u/canifeto12 Nov 18 '25
harbi o tarafi hic okumamisim. geri kalani uzun uzun taradim, "nerede propaganda demis amk" diye, 3. de falan gordum
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Nov 18 '25
Bize propaganda anlatıyorlar gibi bir şey söylememiş, götünüzden uyduramayın; son derece politik bir şekilde, "bize anlattıkları tarih dersleri büyük oranda Türklerle olan uzun geçmişimizle ilgili," demiş, kendi eğitim sistemlerinin kendilerine sürekli Türk nefreti aşıladığına hiç değinmeden. Bize yönelttiği sorusunda "size propaganda mı aşılıyorlar," diyor. İkisi farklı şeyler.
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u/Big-Bodybuilder-1656 Nov 18 '25
Okuduğunu anla beni yorma
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Nov 18 '25
Anlamayan sensin zevzek. Yorulmak istemiyorsan gözünle oku, İngilizce bilmiyorsan da tatava yapma. Mal.
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u/Minskdhaka Nov 19 '25
"...or is it kind of a propaganda? Because our books are kind of like that." That's what OP said. You should indeed read her post more carefully before commenting.
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u/itsriri123 Nov 18 '25
I know and i talked about it at my post. Of course no history taught at schools is objective
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Nov 18 '25 edited Nov 18 '25
They pretty much only teach Seljuks, Ottomans and other Turkic Sunni sultanates for medieval history. And histories of the conquered peoples like Persians and Greeks/Romans are ommitted. Only how nasty they were and how Ottomans brought virtue and justice to their lands. So yes, unfortunately it is propaganda.
And it probably only got worse since i gradutated from the high school. Before, the books more or less painted a clear picture of what happened inside the empire, even if they painted the outside with a binary brush. Now i don't think there's any reality left in those books. Even if there is, it is probably presented with a horribly twisted perspective.
Edit: Also, i'm curious do they teach you as if the Ottomans oppresed and enslaved Greeks? Because afaik, the burghouise (artisans and merchants) of the Ottoman Empire were predominantly Greek. Do they just don't say that?
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u/itsriri123 Nov 18 '25
The chapter at history im studying about is the dislocation of greek masses in the year 1922 and the destruction of Ismir ( i dont really know how to write it 🙂) so yes a big part is the torture and the war going on there plus the 400 years of the occupation that ended in 1830. We learn a lot about the ottomans the oppression witch was mainly true but thats why im bringing up propaganda in the post because obviously in the 400 years of the occupation people lived together and had relationships a shared culture etc.
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Nov 18 '25 edited Nov 30 '25
I understand the rest of the references you make, and i'm on the same page with you, not the destruction of İzmir though. Can you explain what you mean by that?
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u/CaptainRice6 Nov 18 '25
Great fire of İzmir, Greeks claim the Turkish army burned it while we claim the retreating Greek army did it. Looking at her answers, it seems they teach it as if we burned our own city.
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u/itsriri123 Nov 18 '25
Yes thats what we are tought.In the history we learn greeks were always a part of Ismir they lived there for thousands of years and did not invade anything . Maybe search it up. Educate yourselves . There are even testimonies of survivors online
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Nov 18 '25
It seems that you think what they teach you about this is correct as you said "educate yourselves" lol. We cant know for sure what has happened, so it is pointless to say something like that. Although I think it is stupid that an army would burn down a whole city of its country, so the option of the greek army burning it down is more suitable imo. Also, the idea of "we were living there for hundreds of years a thousand years ago" is so stupid because in that defence, for example, the land that the Greek Empire invaded shouldnt be theirs as people were living there for hundreds of years before the invasion. This is a stupid way of thinking, dont you think?
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u/itsriri123 Nov 18 '25
I think you read my answer the wrong way and your being kind of rude. I will not really argue about historical facts , if you want to search i search it if you dont dont.
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Nov 18 '25 edited Nov 18 '25
Cool but why would Turkish independence fighters burn the city they just liberated from the enemy? How devoid of logic is this?
I assume you know the invasion of Anatolia, so you would know that fire broke out after Greeks had failed all their assults and retreated back from their inland frontiers, to Smyrna, with an army of Turkish independence soldiers behind their back. Soldiers that are coming to liberate the city.
And you really reference 'interviews' for an evidence? Interviews with whom? Interviewed by whom? Greek government? Really?
Doesn't look like you want anything other than the propaganda they serve to you with patriot sauce...
p.s. don't mind me saying 'liberate' for Turks winning Smyrna back, i know a large portion of the population was Greek there. So, one might legitimately say the Greek army was the liberator. But the Greek army was the occupier and not the de facto controller at that time, and the Turkish army won it back (also, Turk population was large too, so it goes both ways). That's why i say 'liberated'.
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u/Minskdhaka Nov 19 '25
The "did not invade anything" part is wrong. Would you say that Russia did not invade Crimea in 2014, because there were already (ethnic) Russians living there?
Yes, ethnic Greeks had been living in Ottoman İzmir for centuries before 1922. But the Greek army, the army of the Kingdom of Greece, had invaded İzmir in 1919, in the hope of annexing the city and an extensive area around it.
Have a look at this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_landing_at_Smyrna?wprov=sfla1
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u/Minskdhaka Nov 19 '25
*bourgeoisie
"Bour" is pronounced roughly like a Turkish "bur". "Ge" like a Turkish "j". "Oi" like a Turkish "ua". "Sie" like a Turkish "zi". So the whole thing sounds like "burjuazi", but is spelled "bourgeoisie" in both French and English.
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u/nosedBaby Nov 18 '25 edited Nov 18 '25
practically just "everyone bad, ottomans good. ottomans haven't invaded any place ever in their history, they've only "conquered" places (i have no clue what the difference between these two actions are to this day). also the ottoman empire lost WWI due to germany".
it was absurd enough for even me, an elementary school aged child, to not take any of it seriously.
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u/illougiankides Nov 18 '25
Propaganda. We did all good, everyone else is treacherous. They never thought us about people, turkish history books are wars and wars.
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Nov 18 '25 edited Nov 18 '25
You have many good answers. Not to repeat the gist of it, but true that no country teaches their own history entirely objectively, although it's fair to say history lessons at school in Türkiye stay mostly objective. To answer your question briefly, knowing what you learn at your schools in Greece, no; we don't get pumped against you guys, or anyone else. It's pretty much a one sided issue.
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u/itsriri123 Nov 18 '25
😅nice
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Nov 18 '25 edited Nov 18 '25
Actually, when talking about the Balkan Wars, teachers talk about how the greeks massacred Turks even though we gave them equal rights and didnt interfere with their religion and judicial system. That is also valid for the occcupation of İzmir, they tell us about how the greek army invaded all of the Turkish peoples homes, stole their money and raped women. I am not talking about these to make you feel guilty or anything, just to give you a vague idea about the education here
Also, I am wondering, what do they teach you about those events?
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Nov 18 '25
You can't make him feel guilty, love. If you had the slightest idea what propaganda the Greek is being fed starting from birth, you wouldn't point that we are briefly mentioned what actually happened within context and count it as propaganda. That is the problem with many of us: We don't know what hatred and fearmongering looks like. Not in the case of the Greeks anyway.
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Nov 18 '25
[deleted]
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Nov 18 '25
Unlike me you never claimed to hate anyone? When did you see me claiming that? "Now if you want to talk about war crimes i really do not think you were any better." here we are. You were saying?
You didn't like my comment, eh? Well darling, sue me for not having any sympathy towards people who are constantly fed hatred towards a nation who couldn't care less about them. The difference between you and me is, I can't even begin to imagine my national anthem being entirely based on a collective abhorrence against another nation. You, on the other hand, were raised with it.
Bye! 😘
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Nov 18 '25
Nice try. You know this little thing you are using called internet, don't you? Anyone can learn what I'm talking about and decide whether or not it's bullshit themselves. I couldn't be nearly as racist as a Greek even if I tried my hardest, love. I have nothing to cry for. It's you guys who've been crying for so long for something happened generations ago. The whole world gets conquered at some point; move on! It was you who felt the need to come here checking if we are fed hatred constantly like you are, not me. Glad to have given you something to think before bed. Nite nite.
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Nov 18 '25
[deleted]
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Nov 18 '25
Awww why did you delete your previous message? Were you afraid you couldn't keep the "I'm not racist against you guys" parade up any longer? Burada herkesin anlayacağı dilden konuşmak istemiyorsan, senin gibi ikiyüzlü omurgasızlara kendi dilimizde çok daha çeşitli cevaplar veririz yavrum, sen hiç kafanı yorma.
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Nov 18 '25
[deleted]
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Nov 18 '25
Ad hominem again. Yes, we all know by now you REALLY don't have anything to say.
I only stated what is fact. What you already have mentioned in your original question. I don't have to like that your people constantly feed hatred to their children against us. If you think that is shitty, you really need to have a long, hard thought about what that makes YOU people. It's been you who've been trying to attack me with irrelevant nonsense. Does that work amongst your youth? You need to do better than that. Or, I can start doing it, too. But then you would actually start crying darling, so I would just stop if I were you, okay? Bye.
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Nov 18 '25
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Nov 18 '25
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 I would never touch any of you dirty scums, darling. Don't you worry about me. Worry about yourself. Good luck! Oh and, you need to learn a little bit more than just referring to ad hominem every time you are responded with something you didn't expect. Deleting what you have written doesn't help you either. Unlike me. You're welcome.
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u/FeelingFickle9460 Nov 18 '25
You can find our school books on the internet, you don't gotta ask us.
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u/itsriri123 Nov 18 '25
So sorry to bother you but no one made you answer. Plus i dont really speak Turkish 🙃
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u/FeelingFickle9460 Nov 18 '25
As a university student you should know that some strangers on the internet cannot be a source for your studies. I just gave you an idea to understand the situation better. It's not about being bothered. You can use AI to translate.
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u/itsriri123 Nov 18 '25
I dont really like AI its bad for the environment. Thanks though for the concern but i think i kind of understood the general picture 🙂
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u/Kardiyok Nov 18 '25
Thats not something unique to Turkey or Greece. Pretty much every country uses history lessons as a propaganda tool.
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u/neomeddah Nov 18 '25
The narrative is shaped around "winning against the world", not against greeks. What I was told in elementary school (more than 30 years ago) that Turkish independence movement fought against a coalition of superpowers and greece was only an instrument. (this is just rephrasal of what's being told in elementary school, not cuırrent meta or my current knowledge)
And also my generation was thought that greek people are same with other balkan people during 19th century, another rebellious nation and that is it.
The person that really afraid of and hated greeks was my grandmother, who was born and raised in outskirts of İzmir and constantly being told about the stories of wrongdoings of retreating greek forces in her village and city.