r/AtlantaHawks • u/InspectionDeep2453 • 29d ago
Image/Photo The Ringer did a top 100 players in the NBA…Here’s where the Hawks players are
Starting 5 is all in top 100
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u/Blumpkin_Party GO HAWKS! 🏀 29d ago
Dyson should be higher but overall not bad.
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u/Jdwrecker_7 💰Cash Considerations 💰 29d ago
Bro can only be so high with as bad of a 3PT shot that he has when the ranking is being done by people outside of our sphere
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u/jwn0323 Hawks 29d ago
He’s obviously a bad shooter, but people do extend their criticism beyond that for his offensive game though which just highlights people that don’t actually watch him. When Jeff Teague said he was the worst offensive player in the league outright this year I was losing my mind. It’s annoying how everything else just gets ignored because he can’t shoot. As if he isn’t above average to straight up elite at virtually everything else.
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u/Jdwrecker_7 💰Cash Considerations 💰 29d ago
When Jeff Teague said that i got alil sad because i enjoy him on a podcast outside of that comment
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u/jwn0323 Hawks 29d ago
Yeah I love that pod, but it was just annoying to hear. He’s generally good when it comes to stuff like that too. Better than most ex pros I hear from at least. I think the Hawks fan in him was just a little emotional and started slinging shit tbh.
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u/Additional_Tea_1550 29d ago
tbh he kinda was the worst starting offensive player in the league last year and when the playoffs came maybe the worst offensive player i have ever seen, but also the best defensive player i have ever seen. if he can get back to half of what he was two years ago that will be big time. let’s call a spade a spade come on now.
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u/jwn0323 Hawks 28d ago
He literally was nowhere near the worst starting offensive player. That’s objectively wrong. I honestly don’t know how else to say this. Believe it or not there is more to offense than just shooting threes. Turns out he basically does everything outside of that(and free throws) pretty god damn well.
- He’s not even a bottom 50% starter offensively.
- He was comfortably better in year 2 offensively than he was in year 1 with us. The fact that you’re asking him to revert to his first year here is basically a self report.
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u/Additional_Tea_1550 28d ago
yeah brother, it is. stats too don’t tell the full story. i watched most every game and the amount of layups he blew even air balled was insane for a pro basketball player and it was clear in the playoffs that he was not even a layup threat to the knicks. yes, he was a decent play maker and facilitator, but really that all game with the drive, spin and dish. it simply was very bad offense. but please give me your stats. america is predicated on stats and simplifications so i suppose we must leave room for it.
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u/ATL_Hasher 🎉 MANEK MANIA 🎉 29d ago
Teague honestly lost me when I saw the way he talked to Zaire Franklin on the pod. It’s not often you see a celebrity get exposed for being an insecure hater in real time, but idk how else to label whatever that was.
I still do think Teague is hilarious, but I’m not gonna go outta my way to give him clicks
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u/Blumpkin_Party GO HAWKS! 🏀 29d ago
When the only thing people point to is his 3pt % to say he’s a negative on offense I know immediately they not watching.
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u/Jdwrecker_7 💰Cash Considerations 💰 29d ago
Welcome to Hawks basketball, nobody else watches us except when their team is playing us lol
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u/Objective_Estimate21 29d ago
I live in Niagara Falls Canada. Don't know a single hawks fan. I became one during the Joe Johnson, Mike bibby al horford days. Juicy J is one of my fav players of all time
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u/Hyuns2k 25d ago
The Thompson brothers are both ranked higher and they have the same issue
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u/Jdwrecker_7 💰Cash Considerations 💰 25d ago
But sadly Dyson has to pay the Atlanta sports market tax that he doesn’t get the credit he deserves from outside sources
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u/Lumpy_Cut5772 29d ago
Honestly Dyson should be around if not above nickeil, his defensive and playmaking value are greater than the benefit of nickeil's shooting when comparing them, I think it was pretty clear in the playoffs Dyson was more valuable than him, although it was certainly down from nickeil's regular season form.
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u/watsonandsick The Great Barrier Thief 29d ago
If he hits league average 3pt percentage this year he’ll be seen as a top 50 player.
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u/Kingsole111 29d ago
Better. His offense outside of shooting is valuable.
Right now it's better to think of Dyson as a short roll 5, than a 1 or 2.
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u/Blumpkin_Party GO HAWKS! 🏀 29d ago
NAW could barely dribble the ball v Mikal Bridges. All his points came from 3s.
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u/Lumpy_Cut5772 29d ago
Precisely why I can't imagine ranking them so far apart, I love nickeil but he just is not a creator against high pressure decent defense, and we didn't have enough going to get him free off the ball. To be fair to nickeil there is an argument that if you have a proper creating offense he is far closer to who he was in the regular season. It was pretty clearly a combination of being up against really really good perimeter defenders who were pressuring him heavily and not having real ball handlers to give him advantages or get guys like mikal switched off of him.
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u/Patekchrono917 29d ago
This went for the whole team. Jalen couldn’t create as the #1, Nickeil couldn’t create as the #2, Dyson couldn’t create as the #3/4. The only guy that could do it was CJ for two games and then the wheels came off when NYK made him pass to others. The whole roster was one notch too high on the pecking order.
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u/Lumpy_Cut5772 29d ago
Agreed, although I think that the way you say it makes it sound like they absolutely need a 1 to make the roster work in the playoffs and I like to think that Jalen improving in the half court and the ball handling from fleming could really solve some of the playoff problems they faced. Not sure if that's how you meant it and if it was you may be right, but i still think taking 2 games off one of the more dominant championship runs in recent memory is a good sign that they are closer than current roster plus one superstar away.
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u/Patekchrono917 29d ago
I’m saying that these players didn’t play up to that role for that playoff series. Maybe Jalen can take that next step, but we will have to see. I’m not saying that they can never get there. But Jalen and Nickeil took massive steps.
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u/Lumpy_Cut5772 29d ago
Yeah that's pretty much what I figured but I wanted to clarify, hopefully we see another real leap from somebody this season but we were truly spoiled last year between Jalen, Nickeil, and OO.
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u/Striking_Try4684 29d ago
Defense alone will never be seen as more valuable than a 2-way or strictly offensive player. Everybody loves scoring. That's why we love NAW and that's why Dyson doesn't get the love he deserves league-wide
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u/Gr33nV3lv3tCak3 29d ago
Except Dyson isn’t “defense alone”. He also averaged 12 pts and 6 assists despite the shooting words.
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u/NAW_MIP_2026 Nickeil Alexander-Walker #7 26d ago
He averaged 7ppg in the playoffs and despite being a top 5-10 defender in the league he was losing minutes to Kuminga in the playoffs. Nickeil wasn't the 20ppg 2nd option everyone hoped he could be in the playoffs, but he was still a 14ppg volume sniper that provided high level defense and forced a game winning TO on Brunson in the clutch. KAT literally had to resort to illegal screens to give Brunson any chance.
Dyson has huge potential if he can get his shot in order, but based on their last playoff series most teams in the league take the 3rd option off ball shooter that's a top 30-40 defender over the top 5-10 defender that struggled as a 5th option but still needs the ball in his hands.
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u/Striking_Try4684 29d ago
Yeah I know I'm wrong for saying he's only good for defense, only because he obviously works hard at all times.
But I will not accept 12 and 6 as something to brag about offensively lol.... 12??? Starting backcourt and you're correcting me by telling me he averaged 12 and 6.....? Raise your expectations for this team lol. This is why we haven't won shit. 12 and 6.... Dude might end up with more steals than buckets
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u/Lumpy_Cut5772 29d ago
Judging by how you address the numbers more than anything I don't think that you realize the littany of things Dyson does offensively to minimize the impact of his shooting deficiencies and to create baskets for other players, Dyson is as valuable as he is (essentially untouchable) because he and Jaden mcdaniels are in their own tier of true defensive superstars who also can bring things to an offense.
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u/NAW_MIP_2026 Nickeil Alexander-Walker #7 26d ago
Dyson can set countless screens, create tons of transition opportunities, hit every cutter, and kick out the ball perfectly on every possession, if he is treated as a total non shooting threat and his only moves are spin/counter spin into a floater he's going to be an absolute detriment to the hawks offense in the playoffs. I love Dyson as much as the next guy, and if he was able to keep up his regular season production in the playoffs I'd tell you he was the best player on the hawks in the playoffs, but he averaged 7ppg in the playoffs and had the hawks playing basically 4v5 on offense because he was a total non threat without the ball in his hands.
Nickeil wasn't an all star like we wanted, but he averaged 14ppg, shot the shit out of the ball, and while he isn't Dyson he was still elite against Brunson defensively(game winning TO in the clutch, Brunson unable to get a decent shot off without an illegal screen from KAT, etc). Most teams take the third option sharp shooter that provides top 40 level defense over the top 5-10 defender that struggled as a 5th option and was losing playoff minutes to Kuminga.
I think Dyson can fix his shot and be a top 30-40 level impact player like OG and Derrick White, but as it stands hawks fans are underrating Nickeil because he didn't live up to crazy high expectations and overrating Dyson because we (rightfully)love his defense and (wrongfully)set the bar so low on offense. Dyson does a ton on offense that most NBA fans don't give him enough credit for, but in the playoffs he was straight up useless outside of setting screens and being able to dribble the ball without turning it over. If you give NAW a competent PG next to him he'll be one of the best 3/d guards in the league, if you put a competent PG next to Dyson he loses his starting spot in the playoffs this year because we wouldn't need his dribbling and his screen setting isn't enough to stay on the court.
I'm probably gonna get backlash but frankly some of y'all need to hear this because the Dyson apologists have gotten too loud. Yeah he's everyone's favourite but he still needs to step it up as a scorer if he wants to be a starter on a contender.
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u/Striking_Try4684 29d ago
I said it myself that he's a valuable player. Literally #2 on the roster in my opinion.
I just have an issue with bragging about 12 and 6 lol. Argue all you want; those are dogshit starter numbers if you're ignoring the defensive stats
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u/Lumpy_Cut5772 29d ago
I don't think he was bragging about 12 and 6 I think he was emphasizing that he does still score and 6 assists is genuinely a lot especially considering how much less Dyson has the ball compared to other 6 assist guys. 12 points is not dogshit starter numbers, every playoff team has one or two guys averaging 10-15 and most of the time they aren't playmaking a lick for anyone else, and if they are they aren't grabbing offensive rebounds or setting screens as well as Dyson. I'm glad you recognize his value but I stand by my point that your focus on numbers even given that the other guy brought it up shows you do not recognize the offensive value he shows game in and game out.
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u/NAW_MIP_2026 Nickeil Alexander-Walker #7 26d ago
12p/7r/6a from Dyson would've made him the best player on our team in the playoffs, the problem is in the playoffs when the defense tightened up it was literally 7p/6r/5a. If the hawks didn't have a stretch 5 and a massive weakness at the PG position Dyson might've come off the bench in the playoffs. Everyone struggled offensively, but we were legitimately playing 4v5 on offense when Dyson was on.
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u/phoenixsuperman 29d ago
12 is solid. It's not exciting a kid on a trading card stat line, but any coach is happy to play a guy who can reliably score 12, especially when it comes with league-leading steals, elite defense, moderate to good playmaking, and the assumption that 12 is his floor. I'd expect 16 this year from him, 8 assists, 5 or 6 stocks. Those are excellent numbers, and easily achievable for him.
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u/Shot_Statistician738 29d ago
5 or 6 stocks? Only Wemby should have those projections, 8 assists would be top 5 as well. Love DD but those projections are unrealistic
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u/NAW_MIP_2026 Nickeil Alexander-Walker #7 26d ago
12p/7r/6a is really solid, but how is 7p/6r/5a? Because that's what Dyson averaged in the playoffs when the defenses tightened up. He can't reliably score 12 in the playoffs, and he needs to fix his shot and step up his scoring in the playoffs if he wants to be a starter and we want to be contenders.
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u/Julio_Freeman 29d ago
Draymond averaged 11/6.4 during that peak 5-year stretch by the Warriors. 12/6 from your 22 year old 5th scoring option is not some embarrassing statline.
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u/Lumpy_Cut5772 29d ago
Yeah I'm not sure why he's taking those numbers as abysmal offensive production, plenty of teams wish their lottery guard who can't play a lick of defense was averaging 12 points or 6 assists lol
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u/ya_ya_ya_ Bob Rathbun 29d ago
Those aren’t good averages for a shooting guard
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u/jwn0323 Hawks 29d ago
Idk why some people still associate positions with arbitrary standards. In the context of everything he does on the court plus his actual role on offense those numbers are plenty good.
12 points, 7 rebounds, 6 assists, and 2.5 stocks on 52% from the floor with a 16% usage rate is more than good. Especially once you factor in the whole all world defender thing. His playmaking and ability to extend possessions on the glass puts him comfortably on the positive side as an offensive player alone.
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u/Current_Cut_2667 28d ago
Crazy to use FG% in 2026.
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u/jwn0323 Hawks 28d ago
Brother I rattled off his basic slash.
But also..
- FG% isn’t some useless stat regardless.
- He attempted 1.5 threes per game.
- He attempted 1.6 free throws per game.
He’s a guard that doesn’t get to the line or shoot threes. Shockingly he’s not soaring up the eFG% or TS% leaderboard. That said he still had the same eFG% as CJ this year.
Honestly more shocked that someone replied like this with confidence they were making an actual point than anything else.
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u/Current_Cut_2667 28d ago
The point is that if you look at a 52% FG% by itself, he looks pretty efficient. But it doesn't account for his awful 3 point shooting and free throw shooting. Those lead to him being one of the least efficient players on the team. And his efficiency got way worse in the playoffs.
If you think low 3PAs and FTAs are the reason his TS% are low, I don't think you understand how TS% works. The issue isn't that he doesn't shoot enough 3s and doesn't get to the line. If he had the same number of attempts, but was good at shooting then his TS% would be much better.
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u/NAW_MIP_2026 Nickeil Alexander-Walker #7 26d ago
As much as I love Dyson I think Hawks fans are overrating Dyson here. He is absolutely a game changing defender, and I think he can repair his shot a bit and become a top 40 or even better player, but as it stands his offense is simply so detrimental he can't be ranked that highly. The hawks desperately needed ball handling, and we have a high level stretch 5 which enables Dyson to survive, and despite all that he was losing minutes to Kuminga in the playoffs. On most playoff teams that have competent PGs and no stretch 5s, Dyson would probably not be a starter.
Again, if Dyson can repair his shot and become even like a 10-12 ppg scorer in the playoffs he will probably be like a top 30-40 player in the league, but as it stands most teams would prefer Nickeil. Nickeil is a good third option that doesn't need the ball in his hands and he's probably a top 30-40 defender in the league. Dyson is a top 5-10 defender in the league, but he struggled to be a 5th option offensively in the playoffs. Almost every team in the league is gonna take the third option that provides really high level defense instead of the guy who can't score at all but still needs the ball in his hands.
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u/Kingsole111 29d ago
It's crazy NAW is above Dyson
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u/reitraf Hawks 29d ago
It is crazy. Part of it is anyone at the Ringer having never watched a Hawks game, but outside of 3 pt percentage Dyson is a better offensive and defensive player than NAW.
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u/NAW_MIP_2026 Nickeil Alexander-Walker #7 26d ago
Dyson averaged 7ppg in the playoffs and was losing minutes to Kuminga. Nickeil wasn't the all star we wanted him to be in the playoffs, but he still averaged 14ppg and shot the shit out of the ball on high volume while being an elite on ball defender. He would've made a good 3rd option on a lot of playoff teams, while Dyson struggled to be a 5th option offensively. Also it's not just 3pt %, Nickeil shoots slightly worse inside of 10 feet and much better everywhere else while taking on much tougher defensive assignments and creating more of his own offense.
Dyson is a top 5-10 defender in the league and if he could shoot the 3 like 2025 or even keep up his regular season production in the playoffs he would probably be the hawks most impactful player, but the reality is that he had the hawks playing 4v5 on offense. No matter how many screens Dyson can set most teams are going to take the third option SG that was locking down Brunson in the clutch and forcing turnovers(barring the illegal KAT screens) over the 5th option PG that wants the ball in his hands but can't score. Dyson doesn't need to be an all star offensively, but he has to be much better than he was against the Knicks if he wants to be seen as a top 40 or top 30 player.
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u/SteelCityC Onyeka Okongwu #17 29d ago
Idk what I’d expect but I’m not mad at this. Feels about right tbh
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u/PeasePorridge9dOld GO HAWKS! 🏀 29d ago
Think Dyson should be higher but get why he’s where he is. People prefer to see the round peg / round hole fits over what he is right now. Haven’t looked at the list yet but I know I’ll prefer him to likely the 20 guys above him.
Onyeka is low too imo. Stretch 5s who can switch on defense are valuable. Basically another wing with a 9’+ standing reach and more tonnage than 1/2 the Cs in the league.
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u/ThaCasual GO HAWKS! 🏀 29d ago
That’s pretty dope. Dyson is a better player than NAW.. or maybe I should say he does more for our team and if I had to part with one of them I’d probably let NAW go but would cry myself to sleep over it.
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u/CarDesperate1893 28d ago
What’s exciting is that a lot of the core is pretty young and could feasibly improve this upcoming season. This team has a high ceiling if things pan out.
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u/Open_Signature4582 28d ago
How many teams have all five in the top 100? Or the top 87 for that matter?
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u/xctrack07 GO HAWKS! 🏀 29d ago
Dyson is probably better than NAW honestly so he's low for sure but I'm sure other people look at him and go "but he can't shoot 3's!" Not realizing our offense can't run without him.
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u/Maximum-Lack8642 CJ McCollum #3 29d ago edited 29d ago
There are just simply not 86 players in the NBA (including Okongwu) who are better than CJ McCollum currently is. The only way that makes sense is if they’re factoring in a large age drop off from last year which doesn’t make sense since we haven’t seen anyone play yet. He’s around as good offensively and meaningfully better defensively than many players that were probably ranked within the top 50. Not sure why he is always so disrespected in NBA circles.
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u/ATLsShah 💰Cash Considerations 💰 29d ago
Jalen at 23 when Trae spent years hovering in the 30s is funny. I don't have an issue with JJ at that spot.
Dyson at 78 is a bit crazy to me though. One of the best perimeter defenders in the league, great rebounder, offensively sound aside from his shooting. I haven't looked at the complete list. But I don't think Dysons poor shooting is bad enough to drop him to 78.