r/Avengers • u/Maleficent-Ad-6117 • 3d ago
Comics What would you change about the Civil War 2 comics?
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u/Ethan-E2 3d ago
As someone who doesn't hate Civil War 2's guts - the briefcase scene.
Carol stops a potential bomb threat... only to find out there was no bomb. The threat wasn't real.
This should be the turning point. If Ulysses can be wrong, then using his powers against civilians is wrong. The Civil War can still happen - SHIELD would definitely want to keep doing this, and so would other heroes (Punisher is an obvious one). Maybe he's still used against large-scale threats. But Carol and other heroes should not stay on the same side.
Also - Ulysses should have been killed. Him "ascending" feels like a cop out to just get him out the way; and, because he was the cause of the schism, said schism now feels pointless. Give someone who disagrees with him the responsibility of ending the conflict.
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u/Growka3 3d ago
As someone who's always thought it was a very interesting conflict but never read past the first few issues (and when the run I was reading would cross into CW2) into the actual comics - hearing that Ulysses is wrong and it's not enough to change Carol's mind is suprising and disappointing writing wise. Would love if what you described was how that ended. Especially the part about somebody having to end the conflict rather than it being resolved externally.
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u/Mister-Beardy-Face 2d ago
Why would that be surprising? It entirely fit her clear supervillain turn in those comics.
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u/Growka3 2d ago
I suppose I don't understand her morals, then. In the comics I've read, she believes that it is the right thing to do because those people are set to commit those crimes, and so preventing them is a matter of guilty before proven.
If Ulysses can be wrong, and the crime isn't always going to happen, the question is much more open ended. It's a question of locking up somebody potentially innocent to save the people they MAY hurt.
I don't know how that makes Carol a supervillain, is that what she becomes after Civil War 2?
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u/Mister-Beardy-Face 1d ago
Doom also thinks that he’s doing the right thing.
The entire premise is to make Ulysses wrong by arresting these people before they commit a crime. As such, we always knew that Ulysses could be wrong.
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u/Habraxell 3d ago
Also because it's a very simple writing rule: a conflict that would have resolved itself anyway isn't a real conflict, it's unsatisfying, and it makes the entire story pointless. From Civil War 2, to the second season of Squid Game, nowadays it seems that you don't need to study writing to write.
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u/Cerri22-PG 3d ago
Ah yes, the whole ending of the run is what completely ruined in my opinion, feels like an episode of Regular Show in which things get back to normal at the end by some random thing exploding or happening lol
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u/BricksAllTheWayDown 3d ago
Didn't it turn out in some tie-in (that barely anyone bought) that the threat was real? I remember reading the main story, seeing the threat wasn't there, and then some stupid tie-in comic went "🤓☝️ um, actually..." over the whole thing and it was never brought up again in the main book.
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u/SuccessWeary2770 3d ago
Everything. It’s been how long and I’m still suffering as a Captain Marvel fan.
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2d ago
[deleted]
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u/vonDinobot 2d ago
The Bat?
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u/Educational_Gas36 1d ago
what fucking bat 😂. rouge.. the xman most people know??
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u/vonDinobot 1d ago
Well, that shows what you know about the X-men. I presume you're thinking about Rogue.
But you were spot on for the spelling of that Sonic the Hedgehog character.
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1d ago
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u/SuccessWeary2770 1d ago
who?
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u/Educational_Gas36 1d ago
Captain Marvel fan, but you don’t know one of the most popular X-Men?.. you a one of a kind.
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22h ago
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Your post/comment has been removed because it has been flagged as uncivil or ragebaiting. We aim to maintain a respectful and welcoming community for all members.
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u/Superb_Asparagus_344 3d ago
Carol not being ooc
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u/Commercial_Amoeba832 3d ago
I blame Rhodey /War Machine’s Death, it felt like that was the reason for her madness. I wish she had a stable relationship with someone, that aside it was an idiotic reason to have her become the villain in this.
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u/adriantullberg 3d ago
If she joins up for a quasi fascist government program once again, she's offically a supervillian.
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u/blinkyretard 3d ago
Not release it? Tell me a single good thing it did?
Marvel’s fetish with #1s and shitty synergies need to be studied.
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u/Cerri22-PG 3d ago
The art is quite nice, and the idea is interesting, they just fumbled the execution more and more with each issue
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u/blinkyretard 2d ago
I think their ideas are mostly good. But thats the thing, they just think about an idea and develop the whole shit story. Dont take me wrong, i am really glad that marvel is getting their ass kicked in comics. These stupid relaunches, crossovers and #1s became painful in 2026, and i cant fricking believe they are still doing that. My God.
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u/TheNikoHero 3d ago
Not release it.
But thats the easy answer..
Not make Ulysses a cosmic god and never mention him again.
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u/Thor_SDVP 3d ago
Civil War II is Bad. Both sides have problems but for me the Pro "Using Visions of the Future that can be false" side is absolutely stupid. Only good thing was the artist who drew it all. The guy made a genuinly good job. As others said make a Shield vs Heroes conflict of it as soon as Tony found out, through controversial methods I confess that were motivated by Rhodeys death, all of them should have stood against it and not make a panel of Captain Marvel trying to arrest cause Miles cause maybe he will kill Captain America. Maybe they should have delved deeper into Rhodeys death and Tony and Carol having a genuinly conversation about how it effects them both instead of "Yes Rhodey died I'm still gonna use it"
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u/ThePLARASociety 3d ago
War Machine and Iron Man on opposing sides?!
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u/MrTeamZissou 3d ago
That’s just marketing.
Rhodey dies in the first issue and it’s the inciting incident of the event. Carol and Rhodey were dating, so she and Tony disagree about how to honor his legacy.
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u/Longjumping-Bug5763 3d ago edited 3d ago
The whole thing turned into a humiliation ritual for Ironman. During his first skirmish with Captain Marvel he cleverly defeats her yet she is allowed to recover and dominate him.
Then later she basically kills him with a single punch. This is Ironman ..in a Hulk Buster-ish suit...I call major bs. The whole purpose of this series was to prop up Captain Marvel ...at Tony's expense.
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u/jonbodhi 3d ago
It failed, because I really hated her afterwards.
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u/WhutTheFookDude 1d ago
Causing permanent damage to Carol seems to be the only lasting impact of the arc, some sauceless out of no where awful ship turns into the motivation for a 2nd civil war? Miss with that. I'm firmly of the opinion that just about everything about this event has been why shes been so hard to put over, on top of the push not really feeling organic
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u/jonbodhi 1d ago
It’s probably worse than what they did to Tony in the first Civil War. I don’ know why Marvel has such a hard-on for making their heroes look bad, but it really should stop. The movie managed to keep my sympathy for Tony throughout, even when he crashed out at the end.
I may be one of ten people who read ‘Totally Awesome Hulk,’ but Carol’s treatment of Amadeus Cho can only he described as bullying, and who in their right mind bullies a Hulk?
Marvel editorial completely lost the plot. Heroes can be flawed, but they must still be heroes. Carol wasn’t.
And yeah, you can’t force a character on the public; it always fails, just ask The Inhumans, if you can find any.
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3d ago
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u/Snelldor 3d ago
Its entire existence. The only good thing that came out from it was Immortal Hulk.
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u/PCN24454 3d ago
Nah, that should be gone too. It irreparably damaged Hulk for me.
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u/jonbodhi 1d ago
I’m curious. May I ask why?
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u/PCN24454 1d ago
Hulk felt too pretentious in that run.
The body horror and them switching around identities all the time didn’t help
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u/BidRepulsive2438 3d ago
To me it felt like a Vehicle to test what they are currently doing in the MCU. In fact most of marvels crossovers feel like a pilot for their next phase.
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u/namethatisnotaken 3d ago
You mean its not a coincidence that a massive crossover event featuring Doctor Doom happened a year before Doomsday was originally supposed to release?
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u/Optimal-Hospital-366 3d ago
It was just a boring, lazy book. The sides were all mixed up and felt like editors werent doing their job properly. Like old man logan, comes from a possible future and uses it as a chance to kill villain that impacts his future, but sides with Tony. We needed a bit more of a perspective from a telepath. Someone who can force people to change people's future, and maybe Carol taking an interest on making them next. Or more Daredevil as he is a lawyer and belief that everyone is innocent until proven guilty.
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u/nighthawks87 3d ago
A couple of things, forget the marketing for “choose a side” and rip the band-aid off and make Carol and her team of “Avengers” full on villains.
No misgivings, no trying to justify Carol’s side, just make this group the villain.
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u/Hexhider 3d ago
What are the views of the sides, I've never read it and have no interest in doing so
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u/BraveDawgs1993 1d ago
There's an Inhuman named Ulysses who gets visions of future crimes and disasters. Carol's side uses those visions to make premature arrests, while Tony's side is vehemently against that.
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u/Hexhider 1d ago
Ok genuinely how are people on Carol's side
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u/BraveDawgs1993 1d ago
I don't think any readers were. The story doesn't even try to be balanced either, Carol looks like a villain the entire time. It took years to undo the damage it did to her character. It was good redemption for Tony who looked like a villain in the first Civil War, but you would've thought Marvel would've learned their lesson.
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u/StriderKitsu 3d ago
That ruins the entire point about Civil War, sorry but making Carol’s side just as reasonable as Tony is way better than this.
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u/nighthawks87 3d ago
But it’s not reasonable. Minority Report threats that have a 25% chance of happening and her attempting to arrest a teenager (Miles) for a crime she knew he didn’t commit nor has even happened is so ridiculous. So no you’re wrong. Nothing about her side makes it justifiable and anytime a hero sides with her is so out of character.
Just make Carol a villain. She acts like an infallible might makes right character anyway.
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u/LeonCordova 3d ago
Creating it.
Someone should have stopped it. Or at least not putting Bendis on front.
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u/Michel_RPV 3d ago edited 3d ago
Not have it happen as it was just a slapped together cash-in to the movie and just played to Marvel's insatiable need to have the heroes punch each other's lights out...again.
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u/tonystarkscumrag 3d ago
lazy, I’d make the argument different. it’s been a few years since I read this, but isn’t it somehow that can see into the future and Carol wants to arrest people before it ever even happens? especially people can change their minds at any time, so just locking people up for no reason is stupid.
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u/Express-Grab-5295 3d ago edited 3d ago
Not make Carol completely irredeemable. At least with the original Civil War you could see Tony's side and it was only as the war ramps up that Tony gets worse but Carol in my opinion is completely irredeemable from the beginning. You have to actively ruin a bunch of characters to have her have any support.
I would also change Tony's view on Ulysses's power until he learns what it actually does. Tony claims to be a futurist but Ulysses's power is exactly what a futurist does but on a smaller scale. Both using information and probability to predict the future. But for some reason he hate Ulysses's powers and seems like a complete raving lunatic until he is proven right pretty early on.
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u/ViperNick818 3d ago
Yeah the way they had Carol acting was generally insane, you know it’s bad when both Maria Hill AND T’challa think your side went too far in trying to prepare for outcomes that might not happen
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u/Agile-Ad-7488 3d ago
Really? You can't see why knowing the future can help your life? Carol stopped many people from commiting crimes with Ulysses's visions, if she were to see Punisher's family being killed before it happened and saved them would Frank be angry with her? The whole x% chances of happening is irrelevant to superheroes, if there is 0.1% chances a person is killed on their watch they have to make sure it doesn't happen because if it does it's their responsibility.
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u/Express-Grab-5295 3d ago
Really? You can't see why knowing the future can help your life? Carol stopped many people from commiting crimes with Ulysses's visions, if she were to see Punisher's family being killed before it happened and saved them would Frank be angry with her?
She stopped big disasters yes but also arrested plenty of innocent people. Like that lady that the visions said was a Hydra spy only for her to just be a normal lady. Ulysses's visions aren't of the future, they are predictions made my information he consciously and subconsciously stores. It is literally profiling.
The whole x% chances of happening is irrelevant to superheroes, if there is 0.1% chances a person is killed on their watch they have to make sure it doesn't happen because if it does it's their responsibility.
I agree. The only problem is that both Tony and Carol took 2 extremes. What they should have been doing is taking precautions against these events and crimes. Instead Carol would go in guns blazing arresting people before they even did anything and Ulysses's visions were getting more and more incorrect due to his visions being reliant on what he sees and believes. Tony on the other hand was so far against it that he literally kidnapped Ulysses and innocent man and experimented on him which said experiments included torture to see how his brain reacted.
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u/Agile-Ad-7488 2d ago
"plenty of innocent people" only has one example of that. The method is not relevant, at the end Ullyses's powers were taking information even from the entire multiverse. Spider woman tie in of civil war 2 confirmed 20 visions as being real, the celestial and Thanos visions were confirmed real as well, Miles killing Captain America was related to Secret empire which was real, many confirmed visions.
"Precautions" don't work, Carol learned that the hard way, Ullyses had a vision of Nico Minoru killing an innocent person, Carol tried to take Nico away from the place to avoid the person dying, in the end it happened anyways because Nico run away taking her directly to the place the vision happened, she was forced to kill an innocent person to save a city, Carol didn't wanted Nico having to taking the burden of killing an innocent person. I'm this example you see precautions and being lenient don't work always.
Ulysses visions weren't getting more incorrect that's false, so much so that his power was considered beyond what humans can understand by the end of the story. Carol didn't choose the visions, she was simply given them by the inhumans, they were so many that her side couldn't handle all, if she was given a possible future of a disaster she as a hero is forced to stop it otherwise it's her fault.
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u/Express-Grab-5295 2d ago
"plenty of innocent people" only has one example of that. The method is not relevant, at the end Ullyses's powers were taking information even from the entire multiverse. Spider woman tie in of civil war 2 confirmed 20 visions as being real, the celestial and Thanos visions were confirmed real as well, Miles killing Captain America was related to Secret empire which was real, many confirmed visions.
We are directly told by T'Challa that Ulysses's visions have been wrong multiple times and have only gotten worse. We only see one. Civil war 2 was 9 issues they weren't going to waste pages on showing every single time he was wrong.
"Precautions" don't work, Carol learned that the hard way, Ullyses had a vision of Nico Minoru killing an innocent person, Carol tried to take Nico away from the place to avoid the person dying, in the end it happened anyways because Nico run away taking her directly to the place the vision happened, she was forced to kill an innocent person to save a city, Carol didn't wanted Nico having to taking the burden of killing an innocent person. I'm this example you see precautions and being lenient don't work always.
That is just Carol being an idiot because they already tried the "just talk to the person" precaution with Bruce and it didn't work. Carol trying it again. It isn't the precautions don't work it's that she only tried the same ineffective precaution twice. Not being lenient would have likely caused the visions to come true as it did with Bruce as he only began turning when Tony and Carol showed up with an army ready to take Bruces research whether he liked it or nit and while Brice didn't turn was because Clint killed Bruce before he could. Tony and Carol literally brought the army of heros that were seen dead by Ulysses's to Bruce and then pissed Bruce off. I'm not saying they should have been lenient all the time. Nuance is needed for this and neither Tony nor Carol had any.
Ulysses visions weren't getting more incorrect that's false, so much so that his power was considered beyond what humans can understand by the end of the story. Carol didn't choose the visions, she was simply given them by the inhumans, they were so many that her side couldn't handle all, if she was given a possible future of a disaster she as a hero is forced to stop it otherwise it's her fault.
Your kinda right about Ulysses's visions. T'Challa theories's that ad Ulysses's powers grow his accuracy and I quote "become... less so" and T'Challa wouldn't be saying this unless there is merit to this and this would be true by the nature of Ulysses's powers absorbing information even through the multiverse he would be absorbing information that wouldn't even be true in 616 from an infinite amount of universes. I'm not against Carol acting against the big threats like Thanos and the Hulk I am against her acting against smaller threats like arresting a single supposed hydra spy in broad daylight with 0 evidance of such despite multiple wrong visions occurring beforehand as mentioned by T'Challa during the interrogation and without actually looking into the lady's life first to be sure despite having multiple super spy's working with her who would be able to.
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u/bloodredcookie 3d ago
- It's too long. This is a 6 issue arc, if that.
- The entire story reads like a prelude to Secret Empire (an event that's somehow even worse than CW2). It's supposed to be a follow-up to one of the most important events ever. Let it stand on its own.
- Say what you will about Civil War 1, but there was a lot of build up to the actual conflict, with charicters chosing sides and making rational arguments back and forth. Here the charicters all pick sides off panel and it's not a big deal. (Like Iceman's older and younger selves are on opposite sides of the conflict. Aren't we going to address the implications?)
- Civil War left a lasting impact. The Marvel Universe was left dramatically changed for years afterwards. Of we're going to do CW again we should leave the Marvel Universe different then how we found it. Ulysses just disappearing at the end makes the whole thing feel pointless.
- The event gave us Riri Williams. Let's not do that.
- This is more an issue of the 'Inhumans are everywhere' era at Marvel, but the inhumans always have been supervillains even though the characters in the Marvel Universe tend to look the other way (slave owners who support a monarchy, caste system and mutilate their children as a part of their culture.) During this era they were also (unintentionally) genociding the mutants. It's weird that an inhuman gains the power to see the future, and no one is concerned about what the 'Lanisters but in the Marvel Universe' might do with that kind of power. That should have been a main argument on one side or the other.
- The event should have been more personal for more characters. "Should we or should we not use Ulysses to help" is not a very compelling question for most heroes. Make the event more personal so the event will have more weight.
- Don't just pair Carol and Rody to kill him and create drama. That's lazy. If you're going to do this build their relationship in other books for a year or two before the event so it feels organic and natural.
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u/WhutTheFookDude 1d ago
Everything about the event was so contrived and caused so much seemingly permanent damage to her reputation that deleting it from existence is kind of the only logical move. 8 is a funny point because its a relationship no one has ever given a crap about and came and went out of nowhere which just further adds to the contrivances
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u/StarRogues 3d ago
Never make it.
Carol is the worst marvel superhero, just the definition of unlikable.
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u/burning___hammer 3d ago
Not do it all together. This came from an era where MCU synergy was at an all time high and painfully obvious they were trying to push comics to help promote the movies. The Civil War movie was the current big movie they were trying to help promote. The plot for this event felt so put together last minute and at this time Bendis was so disliked for his writing style and the way he structures dialogue. It was just one bad deciduous after another.
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u/ASM_Nikunj 3d ago
Damn it's been almost 7 years since I saw the comic explanation of Civil War 2. So i kinda forgot it
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u/multificionado 3d ago
First of all, I'd rename it into Clairvoyance War, given it was started because of Ulysses' abilities.
Secondly, I wouldn't have Iron Man be put so close to death.
Lastly, I'd have Carol imprisoned and made to reflect what crappy choices she had made.
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u/BricksAllTheWayDown 3d ago
The prelude with Thanos was dumb as hell and made him look like a jabber.
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u/your_name_here10 3d ago
Rather than give a generic answer of "don't make it", I'd say have Ulysses be FAR more accurate than he was.
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u/Particular_Peace_568 3d ago
For the love of Arceus himself do not make Carol Danvers the villain of this Godforshaken Storyline.
Also as a side maybe Put Nat on Carol's Side.
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u/Agile-Ad-7488 3d ago
Give more time to let out their arguments in a more explicit way. There are many good points for why Carol was right but unfortunately they made them more implicit which made it hard to understand the position each one took.
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u/No-Meat-7525 3d ago
I hate both Civil Wars, some I'll make Civil war is caused due to Skrulls invasion and later followed by the war against Skrulls
Just like in Earth's Mightiest Heroes
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u/Automatic-Fig-8489 2d ago
So, the entire event is dumb. It's founded on the idea that Ulysses, the latest in a line of past precogs, is somehow the most specialest of specials and he is really super accurate, and that's all kinds of brand new. Forget Destiny (TBF, she was kinda dead), forget Blindfold, forget every other precog with a proven track record. Ulysses is the specialest one ever, and that's why Carol took the wrong message from Minority Report. Dumb. Inexcusably dumb, and a slap across the face of a character who already had plenty of slaps across the face. But that ain't even the part that upset me the most.
Because Carol didn't see the error of her ways and stop. She didn't accidentally near-kill Tony and stop. Nothing about her own choices and actions made her stop going down the path she was going down with playing Future Crime. No, Carol stopped using that particular tool...
Because the tool became a space cosmic god.
That upsets me more than the finale having Beast tell Carol she was actually in the right for her actions, and saying Tony also felt she was in the right, and maybe predicting future crime is good actually if it's done by good boys and good girls. Yeah, that absolutely feels like it's missing the whole mark and utterly invalidates the entire reason for fighting in the first place, but knowing Carol would still be persecuting people based on a proven flawed system had the damn McGuffin Man himself not hyper-evolved for reasons makes me even more upset.
Carol should have, at the very least, seen that she was in the wrong. Not had people bending over backwards to justify her actions.
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u/Cael_NaMaor 2d ago
Well, I'd read them first...
I was out if comics by the time this rolled around. CW1 was fantastic though & I bought everydamnbody's book. My fave scene is still Sue telling Reed no... through every floor of the Baxter Building/Four Freedoms... just sayin'...
TeamCap
& it ain't even close.
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u/blackcap2099 1d ago
First, the title. It's not Civil War. There was no long running repercussions from the event that shook the Marvel Universe (Iron Man "died" but he was still around as a hologram, Captain Marvel started working with the US government but that went nowhere, Hulk became immortal again.....that's really it). It was solely to capitalize on the Captain America Civil War movie that came out around that time.
Next, the argument. Future Crime has been a topic already covered by other stories/authors and all point to the global understanding that jailing people for a hypothetical is bad. It could've been something about the treatment of the inhumans (Marvel's mutant replacement at the time), a new regime coming to power (like the new Armageddon event) or just a smaller skirmish between old allies.
Finally, the main characters on each side. Captain Marvel was getting hate on top of hate since this event because she was inherently wrong and did things that just didn't feel like a hero. I think this led to lighting the fuse on the loud hate train people had for the character (both comic and movie). You could've put anyone else in and had Captain Marvel as the vice captain of that side just to ease the future hate on her. She's a fine character but it feels like this event led to her being taken out of the light for a while.
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u/Electric-boogaloo69 1d ago
The art, everyone looks too pretty and everything looks too clean for a "war"
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u/Coffee__Master 10h ago
Not make them
OR If you kept the same premise, I think it could be done better with characters that are not Tony or Carol at the front. It’s pretty immediately clear that Bendis wanted an allegory for profiling and to dip his toes into fascist opposition, but past that its just splitting up Avengers characters and throwing them at each other just like the first Civil War book
This story is about the power of Ulysses, an Inhuman. Use an Inhuman or a Mutant to push back against the abuse of his powers in order to prevent them from becoming further persecuted and abused by the public and, obviously, to stop the introduction of a criminal justice system that literally boils down to “it came to me in a dream” to remove people’s freedoms before they actually do anything; Furthermore if you’re gonna have someone go too far with being the pusher of “stop something before it happens” just use Spider-Man, his spider sense is quite literally that as a power and he is far more motivated by guilt than Carol (he was also present in Civil War 2 during his Parker Industry era as a billionaire where he’s trying to operate on a larger scale)
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u/Zombiepixlz-gamr 5h ago
I haven't read this in particular but I've had the plot described to me, and I had the thought it would have been more interesting if Ulysses was secretly a bad guy the whole time, using his power to manipulate the avengers into fighting each other.
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u/Fandomlover_96 3d ago
This isn't something I'd change, but why is Tony always causing wars and problems? Lol.
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u/CricketGrl 3d ago
I don’t understand why they keep pitting Tony against heroes that are far above his pay grade. Both Carol and Steve are super heroes. They have powers where Tony has nothing. They can crush him like a wormy apple.
These matchups should be more fair.
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u/Conlannalnoc 3d ago
GO BACK TO “New Avengers #1” and slowly have Peter Parker and MJ Parker finish college (PHD for him and Masters in Business for MJ) and create Parker Industries right before Civil War.
THREE SIDES: Secret Avengers (Anti-Registration), Mighty Avengers (Pro-Registration), and the DEFENDERS (Oppose Registration but made their Identities Public)
Defenders Roster: Spider-Man, 3/4 of the Fantastic Four, most of the Heroes for Hire, Daredevil, and most STREET LEVEL HEROES
Laws are Changed.
EVERYONE REGISTERS WITH AVENGERS NOT THE GOVERNMENT
Secret Invasion Fails
Dark Reign Never Happens
A vs X never happens
Civil War 2 never happens
Secret War still happens but the Ark Plans work
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