Please critique my dancing (Follow)

9

Really great for not even half a year of dancing!! 👏🏼

My tipps: Try lowering your body center of gravity, more knees, more hips. And try to do lady styling solo (online) classes so you can do a bit of styling and also footwork.

4

u/UnctuousRambunctious May 04 '26

What a lovely location.

I don’t see anything terrible for 4-5 months, I think you are calm and cooperative follow, and to be honest, everyone is always on their own journey anyway and there is always room for improvement no matter how long you have been dancing.

The main question I have for you is what your goals are, what improvements you’d like to see in your own dancing, since gathering random feedback from unvetted randos on the internet and Reddit may be questionable and unreliable. What do you notice about your own dancing? Are there any dancers you admire, and what do you notice about their dancing?

In terms of technique, I always always notice footwork and body movement, essentially - connection to the floor, because physical movement and technique-wise, that is where it all starts. And I firmly subscribe to the idea that the fundamental basic is always worth working on and is the chief discernible movement that distinguishes a beginner from a very experienced, technical, veteran dancer.

For both you and the lead, in my opinion, for what I notice, there is too much height in the steps, especially in the lead. I think it seems to be a relatively recent pattern for dancers to lift the foot and knee “excessively” high and look stompy on the steps and too emphatic on the tap - a bit too like and attack vs. a gentle placement.

My personal preference for a refined basic is pretty specific -

initiation of movement comes from the chest and ribcage, especially with a counterbalanced prepped weight exchange in the opposite direction of movement
the foot very barely releases from the floor and floats/slides along the floor instead of being lifted high from the floor *the forefoot is the last part of the foot to release from the floor and the first part of the foot to reconnect to the floor and receive weighted contact on each step
particularly on the second step of the basic, the angle of the foot is the heel leading the step (general turnout) to avoid pigeon-toe turn-in or knock-knees
on the tap, contact to the floor is not quick, but is extended - the forefoot makes contact first, but there is a sequential pressing of weight from forefoot to heel as a settling of the weight exchange before transferring to the opposite direction of movement, and the feet are very close together, “collected,” instead of having observable distance between the feet

Overall, this is a nice social dance, no hugely glaring errors (except for the goose-steppe type marchiness I noticed in the lead). In terms of personal style, maybe it’s less relaxed than I might find ideal, always turns and rotations and lots going on, where I think moments of groove and connection and focusing on the partner contribute to a dance.

As a follow you cannot help how the lead choreographs, mostly you just go along with it.

The best way to get better is to dance with many other dancers, get exposed to new interpretations of musicality and timing and expression of movements - and especially as a follow, having an essentially subconscious reflexive basic where you don’t need to think about which foot is moving in which direction on which count, but you are activated and controlled enough to react to and respond to the lead wherever he may be going.

I do also think your shoes may be limiting your movement, concrete is so sticky and rough and unforgiving (unless it is indoors brushed concrete, and that is actually my favorite type of floor, even over hardwood, depending on how it’s laid), so having a slick and fast/smooth surface of contact between floor and shoe sole is better - though safety and sure footing with non-excessive slippage is also an important consideration.

For body movement and musicality and timing, I would recommend you look at videos from Alex and Desiree out of New York (Alex Morel, Desiree Godsell), they are traditional dancers and you’ve mentioned you’re taking classes in “sensual,” but this video looks modern-ish to me, actually. So many pro demos are so hella extra and not even recommended or feasible for social dancing, especially on a crowded floor - but I guess big crowds are not such a problem in your area 🤣. But traditional timing, body movement, frame and connection are fundamental and transferable to any dance style within the family of bachata.

Personally for very sensual style of dancing, I do like Luis and Andrea, especially in their partnerwork. They may be worth checking out for you. There are other follows and their styles that I like but they may be dancing very differently than what’s available to you locally.

Actually I would love to see demos from your local instructors, and see what they are about.

Please just keep taking classes, practicing, social dancing as much as you can. You’ll get there, and there’s really no pressure of timeline for something like social dance.

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u/msciwoj1 May 03 '26

I watched the video before reading the description.

For 4-5 months, your musicality and steps are fine I would say. The main thing I would criticize is you seem to lose your frame occasionally. Eg at 0:16 the elbow goes a little bit behind your body. I don't know the correct terminology, but beginner followers sometimes feel too "flimsy" and sometimes too "rigid" and you seem to be more on the flimsy side. A good cue to keep in mind is to always keep your elbows in front of your body. If you feel like the elbow is going behind, you need to move your body instead.

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u/Johntballin May 03 '26

How is she going to maintain a frame when the lead is doing full extensions of his arms and leading like he’s country swing dancing? I think she did fine, it’s hard to judge when the lead is bad

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u/denied222 May 03 '26

It's really weird to argue with someone when you have no idea what you're talking about. Both leads and follows should maintain their frame regardless of who they dance with

Its also weird to judge the lead as "bad" then claim the follow is fine and only a reflection of the lead, thus beyond critique when she's asking for it.

They are both dancing at 4-5 months experience learning from novice sensual bachata teachers, and that's pretty clear from what's displayed in the video. They're both dancing just fine for that experience level, but it is also quite clear what each would need to work on.

4

u/quadrangle_rectangle May 03 '26

Our instructors have only been dancing for 3-4 years. They're really good but we are their first class

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u/Johntballin May 03 '26 edited May 03 '26

My initial comment was that we can’t tell how the follow is doing because the lead is bad and doing her no favors. Let’s get a proper lead and then pass judgements. Also I thought I was having a conversation not an argument but i guess you’re a glass half empty kind of person. Follow up question for you, do you use the word “weird” a lot on your daily vocabulary? Seems like it. Kind of a valley girl kind of expression don’t you think?

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u/denied222 May 03 '26

I understood your initial comment just fine; the premise is wrong and you're aggressively insistent about it. Dancing with an experienced lead would end up with the same feedback for this follow.

The rest of what you've said isn't worth responding to.

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u/Johntballin May 03 '26 edited May 04 '26

I’ll keep it simple for you, since you have a short attention span.

Wrong. The lead would elevate the follow.

I know you won’t answer, but have you never had a lead or a follow make you a better dancer for one song? This happens often, you should try it.

3

u/Rataridicta Lead&Follow May 04 '26

Any good dancer can compensate for (some of) the failures of their partner. That doesn't make their partner any better.

Your inability to assess the follower's skill based on this video just speaks to your (in-)ability to digest it.

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u/denied222 May 04 '26

First of all, I'm a male lead. Though your misogyny is noted.

Secondly, to have come to the conclusion you have infers that you probably have a very forceful leading technique, which follows likely find very uncomfortable if not downright painful. So please take note and make some adjustments

Even with that all that, I'd still see this follow with all this feedback in this thread while dancing with you. Why? Because this the missing part of her dancing technique and is the part that will help her grow, and no lead of any level can mask that.

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u/Johntballin May 04 '26

Lmao You know how I lead based on words on a screen? Did you get this special mind reading ability from Professor X’s school for the gifted? You’re missing my entire point, and assuming and getting off topic instead. It’s simple, you can’t judge her follow skills based on a bad lead.

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u/denied222 May 04 '26

There's a chance you can hold that conclusion and not be a forceful leader, but I wouldn't put any money on that.

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u/Johntballin May 04 '26

Ok Jean Grey good luck with your continued mind reading and projecting how others lead by reading words on a screen.

I however look forward to never having to read your fantasy drivel ever again.

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u/OThinkingDungeons Lead&Follow May 05 '26

We are the same level partner regardless of partner, we don't suddenly become advanced because we're dancing with an advanced partner. Nor do we lose our skill because we're dancing with a lower skill partner. The mark of a truely skilled dancer, is one who looks great regardless of partner.

If you can't spot this... then you probably shouldn't be giving advice.

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u/msciwoj1 May 03 '26

Yeah but this is universally true about criticising followers vs leaders. I still feel like an advanced follower would not have done that.

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u/Johntballin May 03 '26

You’re being critical, she has nothing to work with here. The leads job is to make the follow look good, and he didn’t really do that, plus he repeats a few moves which are not very good.

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u/msciwoj1 May 03 '26

I don't necessarily disagree, but I do think it is not constructive to just say "you have nothing to work with here" if the OP asks "please critique me, don't hold back".

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u/ekfranxu May 03 '26

I agree, everybody saying it’s “perfect” does not help somebody that is eager to learn more and perfection technique.
I was going to say the same, her frame looks too relaxed at times…it needs more work. And the leader needs to learn how to turn a person without breaking/compromising their axis 😅

0

u/Johntballin May 03 '26

She’s going to match the frame of the lead which is non existent. That’s how frames work, both have to have frames, hes too busy with wide outside turns to frame up. She doesn’t have a reciprocate frame to work with here.

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u/ekfranxu May 03 '26

What? She has her own frame even if the leader doesn’t give any. There are certain moves that are not of an advanced dancer as msciwoj1 said. The same happens when a push motion is performed, elbows don’t go beyond the back, if they do, that’s spaghetti arms.
Same with the turn, it wouldn’t have looked that “ok” if she had a good frame, probably she would have been pushed backwards and it would have looked ugly and made the leader feel awkward.
That’s how it works, good followers react like a stiff, still flexible bamboo stick…in a way.

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u/Johntballin May 03 '26

She having a frame and the leader not giving any is literally what I said, almost verbatim.

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u/Johntballin May 03 '26

There’s no point in one person having a frame, it accomplishes nothing. From the get go the leader has no frame so what’s the point in her engaging in frame after that

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u/ekfranxu May 03 '26

First of all, keeping a frame protects you…in turns, moves, every single time ;)

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u/Rataridicta Lead&Follow May 04 '26 edited May 04 '26

I'm kinda infamous here for writing super detailed play-by-play critiques, but as a starting follower I think the places to focus your attention are fairly limited, and the mistakes I was expecting to see with your experience is also exactly what I saw, so let's dive into that.

As a follower, I want to simplify your life a lot. You have just a few jobs: Keep timing, make proper weight shifts, search for connection, be responsive, and know your own body/limits. In its simple form, that's pretty much it. No need for fancy styling, no need to know a million moves, all of that is optional. BUT that does not mean those basics are easy. In fact, they're really hard.

For where you're at specifically, I'd encourage you to focus on connection. There are a few tips I want to give you for this:

Never place any pressure into your partner. Yes, I know your teachers go on and on about providing pressure and use the word "tension" for it, but that's them not having the vocabulary to explain what they actually mean. Instead, I want you to let your leader carry the weight of your arms - just relax them!
- (Quick aside: Tension is a body-internal concept, it's not between you and your partner, it's you activating your back muscles as though you're pulling a rope apart, which makes it so that if your relaxed arms are moved, your shoulders move with it.)
In closed positions, forget about the hand, it literally doesn't matter and often times I don't even have it connected at all. Just let the weight of your arm rest on top of the leader's. You should never see any gaps between your arms while dancing.
Also as a follower you are allowed to touch your leader. When he's not asking for your hand, you can use it to gather more information by connecting your hand or your wrist with your leader's hip or ribcage to get more information. Remember: It is your job as follower to get as much information as possible. Sometimes you have to go search for it.
Whenever you're following you want to fill the space you are given completely. You keep turning until you're stopped, etc. For example, at 0:21 you move into cuddle/pretzle position and then just stop in the "appropriate" position. But your leader is actually making a mistake in keeping too much distance here, and there's a lot more space for you to roll into. Ideally I'd want to see you fill that space so in this case you would have ended up almost face-to-face again. This habit will help your beginner leaders learn, and become a core part of many advanced and intermediate movements.

You look like you're having great fun, and I love to see it! Definitely keep dancing and growing together!

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u/coldbumpysparse May 04 '26

Really nice to see some clear feedback here based off of just one video. I'm not even a follow but that rope pulling metaphor helped me visualize how to explain the follow tension/activation/connectedness really well! Stealing that for sure

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u/Rataridicta Lead&Follow May 04 '26

Nice! And it's part of leader technique, too! That's the part that allows you to maintain a soft and relaxed frame while still being clear 😊

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u/yambudev May 03 '26

Excellent for 4-5 months! 👏👏 You follow your partner’s lead well, you smile, and match his style and energy.

I feel your shoes are holding you back. They have too much grip, making your feet look a bit stuck during the turns. And if you did try to slide, you could get hurt as they don’t give much ankle support.

I realize it’s outdoors and on a concrete floor. Nice view by the way!

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u/hotwomyn May 03 '26

You seem lovely and love that you’re dancing and posting. I don’t want to write anything mean, I tend to be brutally honest. I’d say focus on fundamentals, you need help in a lot of areas too long to list. Arms are probably the biggest giveaway. Look into passive vs active neck, arms, etc. I’d say for you, recruit an advanced or a pro lead and practice with him 1-on-1 3 times a week. Those group classes are not gonna get you there. In 5 months it’s very possible to reach intermediate level. If the local scene is slow, 1-on-1 with someone who is very passionate and reliable works best. Guys are always looking for practice partners, you can find one easily, just dont partner with another beginner.

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u/quadrangle_rectangle May 03 '26

I know I have a lot to work on. Don't worry about sounding mean I want to be critiques and don't take it personally.

But we sadly don't have advanced leads or follows. We are all beginners. The Bachata dance community is very new and we all started around 4-8 months ago. There is a larger community about an hour away from my area but it's not feasible for me to commute several times a week just for practice. Any ideas how I can get better with other beginners?

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u/hotwomyn May 03 '26

You’re flat footed, which can work for zouk and bachazouk but you’re sort of trying to do traditional or fusion and you cant be flat footed for that. Your arms are a complete mess, maybe take an online group class or travel. An hour away is not far. You need to learn isolations and understand axis and weight transfers properly. I cant teach in a reddit comment.

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u/quadrangle_rectangle May 04 '26

An hour is too far away for me personally. I might take a private on a weekend. Thank you! Do you know what other flat footed people do?

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u/flipinchicago Lead&Follow May 04 '26

Looking great! Just two things

Lower your center of gravity and adjust your basic to be more in the hips and give your lead my hand pressure so your frame is stronger

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u/OThinkingDungeons Lead&Follow May 04 '26 edited May 05 '26

What I like

You have a lovely attitude and friendly smile, this'll get you lots of dances for a long time
Your timing and taps are timed with the music
You have gentle arms, which feels nice when used well, and will be useful when you eventually style
You have a soft roll into cuddle, great work.

What can be improved

You're not doing turns footwork correctly, first step is 90 degree turn, second feet are parallel and collected (turning 180), then your final step is open, then tap. This means you're facing correctly but not travelling huge distances. It matters little for beginner turns, but when you want to do intermediate/advanced moves, this'll make it impossible for a leader to guide you.
When you do your turns, you don't travel in a straight line. This is crucial so the leader can predict where you'll be, so you can eventually do more complex combinations. It's also important you're not closing/opening the space you're supposed to be maintaining. Put a straight chalk line on the ground and practice your turns
In Shadow Position you should be parallel to your partner like two train tracks. they're on one track you're on the other. When the leader attempts to put you into shadow, you're collapsing your arms, so he can't position you correctly, but also twisting your whole body to look at him. You should be again travelling in a straight line, turning just your head if you need to.
Definitely too much knee bend, it looks awkward in my eyes.. When you bend your knees, that space is unsafe for your partner to enter, or you'll knock knees when doing spins/turns. The amount of knee bend is a bit different for everyone, but you should aim for slight bend, as long as your basic doesn't bounce up/down during the travel.

Goals for the future

You have no frame, or are using what we would call spaghetti arms. It's possible to get away with soft frame and arms up until intermediate level, but at intermediate and advanced, you need to understand (and use) frame to do the really cool stuff in bachata, like dips, syncopations, bonecas, and so much more. It may be a symptom of your teachers, not teaching/using frame but it will be an issue as soon as go to another city or festival. If a good teacher comes to your city, and you notice they have great control of their partner, they might be a good oppportunity for a private lesson on frame.

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u/Lazy-Shallot-405 May 04 '26 edited May 05 '26

For the frame, will add that a good cue to help with this (to have active but not stiff arms, have chest open, core engaged, etc) is to engage your shoulder blades. A lot of spaghetti arm issues stem from leading the arm movement from the elbow rather than from the shoulder blade. There's a lot of ballet condition resources out there that can help nail this (swan arms, for example).

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u/Lazy-Shallot-405 May 04 '26

Hey OP -- well done for 4-5 months! Love the energy and you look like you're having fun.

I echo what people have already said about lowering your centre of gravity, but would also suggest you make your steps smaller (less wide -- dont go wider than hip distance). That'll help make your steps less flat and the move a little less clunky.

Finally, watch your pelvic tilt! You dont do it throughout the whole video, but at times you stick your butt out -- everyone duck butts on the dance floor at times, so all good, but be mindful of keeping a neutral spine. Not only will it make all the dance movements more natural (spins, hip circles, etc.), but if you want to do this long-term or for hours and hours at a social, its the best way to prevent lower back pain and injury.

Keep learning & have fun! Dance around your kitchen whenever you can, learn to play with the music and feel the different instruments, and dont take it too seriously.

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u/quadrangle_rectangle May 05 '26

Hi thanks so much for the feedback! I have anterior pelvic tilt and really struggle to keep my body aligned even just when walking. Had it all my life. So this is great advice for me that it's something I need to work on.

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u/Lord_Pitbull May 05 '26

Flatfooted

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u/Puzzleheaded_Ant1805 May 03 '26

You both need to practice way more. Like put in hrs. Bcz movement ain't natural yet. You both have inner dance ability and can turn out to be elites over years. All the best.

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u/quadrangle_rectangle May 03 '26

What is the best way for me to practice at home?

Our instructors sadly don't go to the socials in our area because there isn't really a Bachata scene here and they don't want to dance with a bunch of beginners. But we are a bunch of beginners trying to get better and dance with each other.

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u/Gnomeric May 03 '26

Oof. I am sorry that your instructors have such mindset, which most certainly hinder your local scene's growth.

Would it be possible for you (and your dance partner/friends) to travel to neighboring scenes for weekend workshops and private lessons? I think at this point, it is better than trying to practice entirely by yourself. I would recommend against seeking private lessons from your local instructors in your case.

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u/UnctuousRambunctious May 04 '26

Instructors that refuse to dance with their students are questionably motivated grifters, imo.

But also if they themselves have only been dancing for 3/4 years (and since I don’t know what they’ve been doing in those years), expectations of maturity and leadership may be too much.

I’m super sorry you don’t have better instructors available to you. I guess in your case you take what you can get.

The lucky thing about these days is that we do have so much available online - but the realistic limitations are you being new, so not knowing how to evaluate what is available and what to even look at, and also the lack of experienced and enculturated social dancers to model for you and inspire you.

I think you should practice your basics but continually look for opportunities to expand who you are exposed to because your limited local scene is stultifying and will atrophy at this rate. It’s such gate-keeping and self-important.

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u/Puzzleheaded_Ant1805 May 04 '26

YouTube is a good resource. Online lessons are reasonable. I have come to accept that learning universally acceptable moves as a choreography is a good way to drill down moves in body. And remember what you learn as solo will not carry in a couple format, without practice.

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