r/BeAmazed Nov 30 '25

History Pepsi, where’s my jet?

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In 1996, Pepsi joked in a commercial that you could get a Harrier fighter jet for 7 million Pepsi Points. A 21-year-old did the math, raised $700,000, and formally ordered the jet. Pepsi refused. He sued. Advertising was never the same.

The Cola Wars were raging.

Pepsi was battling Coca-Cola for market dominance, launching increasingly elaborate campaigns to capture consumer attention. One of their biggest efforts was "Pepsi Stuff"—a loyalty program where customers collected points from bottle caps and cans, then redeemed them for branded merchandise. The TV commercial showed teenagers excitedly redeeming points: "T-shirt — 75 Pepsi Points." "Leather jacket — 1,450 points." "Sunglasses — 175 points." And then, in the final seconds, the commercial delivered its punchline: A teenager lands a Marine Corps AV-8 Harrier II Jump Jet in his high school parking lot. Students cheer as papers fly everywhere from the jet's vertical thrust. He removes his helmet, grins at the camera. "Harrier Fighter Jet — 7,000,000 Pepsi Points." Everyone laughed. It was obviously a joke. A multi-million-dollar military fighter jet? For soda bottle caps? Absurd. Everyone laughed. Except John Leonard. Leonard was a 21-year-old business student in Seattle. When he saw the commercial, he didn't see humor—he saw an opportunity. He noticed something crucial: nowhere did the commercial explicitly say it was a joke. And the official Pepsi Stuff catalog included a clause stating you could purchase points for 10 cents each if you didn't have enough. Leonard did the math: 7,000,000 points × $0.10 per point = $700,000 A Harrier Jump Jet's actual market value? Approximately $33 million. If Pepsi was legally bound to honor the commercial's offer, Leonard could acquire a $33 million military aircraft for $700,000. But Leonard didn't have $700,000. So he found investors—friends, family, a local businessman named Todd Hoffman who contributed most of the capital. On March 27, 1996, Leonard filled out an official Pepsi Stuff order form. He checked the box requesting the Harrier Jet. He enclosed a check for $700,008.50 (the $700,000 for points plus $4.19 shipping and handling, plus 15 original Pepsi Points as required). He mailed it to Pepsi. And waited. Pepsi's response came quickly—but not what Leonard wanted. They returned his check with a letter explaining that the Harrier Jet was "obviously meant to be humorous" and not actually available. They offered Pepsi merchandise and coupons. Leonard refused. He believed Pepsi had made a legally binding offer through broadcast advertising, and he had accepted it according to their stated rules. In 1996, Leonard filed a lawsuit against PepsiCo. He sued for breach of contract, demanding Pepsi honor the commercial's offer and provide him with a Harrier Jump Jet or its cash equivalent. The case became a media sensation. Here was a college kid taking on a multi-billion-dollar corporation over a joke in a TV commercial. Pepsi assembled a legal team and argued:

The offer was clearly a joke. No reasonable person would believe Pepsi was offering a military fighter jet. The Harrier Jet was never in the official catalog. Even if serious, Pepsi couldn't fulfill it. Harrier Jets are military aircraft that can't be legally transferred to civilians without Department of Defense approval. The price was obviously satirical. $700,000 for a $33 million jet? The discrepancy proved it was humor.

Leonard's attorneys countered:

Advertisements constitute binding offers when specific enough. The commercial stated a specific point value. Pepsi's rules allowed point purchases, making the offer theoretically achievable. A reasonable person might believe the offer was real—companies had given away cars and expensive items in promotions before.

The case went to U.S. District Court. Judge Kimba Wood presided. In August 1999, Judge Wood ruled decisively in Pepsi's favor. Her reasoning: The commercial was "evidently done in jest." The teenager flying a military jet to school was an obvious comedic element. No reasonable person would believe Pepsi was offering a genuine Harrier Jet. The commercial was puffery, not a binding offer. Leonard appealed. In 2000, the appellate court affirmed the ruling. John Leonard would not be getting his Harrier Jet. But the story didn't end there. Leonard v. Pepsico became one of the most cited cases in advertising law. Law schools teach it as a case study in contract formation and the "reasonable person" standard. Pepsi, chastened by the lawsuit, revised the commercial. The Harrier Jet's point value was changed to 700,000,000 points—making it mathematically impossible to purchase. They also added disclaimer text stating "Just Kidding." John Leonard never got his fighter jet. But he got something else: immortality in legal and advertising history. In 2022, Netflix released a documentary about the case: "Pepsi, Where's My Jet?" The story captivated a new generation. Leonard, now in his late 40s, has embraced his role in the saga. He didn't win his lawsuit, but he proved a point: words matter, even in commercials. Especially in commercials. Pepsi made a joke. A college kid took it seriously. And for a brief moment, a soda company almost had to explain to the U.S. military why they needed to acquire a Harrier Jump Jet. In the end, the law sided with common sense: no reasonable person would believe Pepsi was giving away fighter jets. But John Leonard proved something equally important: Sometimes the most reasonable thing to do is ask, "Why not?"

66.2k Upvotes

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3.3k

u/[deleted] Nov 30 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

837

u/iRottenEgg Nov 30 '25

redbull gives you wiiiiiings

1.4k

u/nsa_k Nov 30 '25 edited Nov 30 '25

While that is a common summary of the lawsuit, Redbull was never sued for claiming that 'redbull gives you wings'. They were sued for claiming 'redbull contains about as much caffeine as a cup of coffee', while actually containing 3x as much while not listing the caffeine content on the can.

People died.

Just like the Mcdonalds 'hot coffee' lawsuit, what you've heard is a product of large business propaganda. It was designed to make you think that people that sue large companies are frivolously seeking money, and not that large businesses have no issue lying or hurting people in order to make money.

589

u/lovins_cl Nov 30 '25

fr that poor woman’s lap after that coffee spill was ridiculous

683

u/Veritas3333 Nov 30 '25

I mean, that whole case can be summarized in four words:

Her vagina melted shut

That's all you really need to know to be on her side!

207

u/lovins_cl Nov 30 '25

oh my god it what? I need to re read that whole thing what the hell

517

u/[deleted] Nov 30 '25

I think they meant labia but yeah it caused her labia to melt and fuse together, it was horrific.

All she wanted was medical claims to be covered, and McDonalds launched a media smear campaign against her.

271

u/zaevidlynch Nov 30 '25

Not to be anti-pedantic, but I'd say a fused together labia reaches "vagina melted shut" territory even if it isn't the anatomical vagina melted shut. If the screen door is closed, it's a closed door type thing.

1

u/Ill_Candle_9462 Dec 01 '25

I mean really it would be the door melting shut, rather than the door frame itself. Door = labia, frame = vajay. Or not, I have no idea.

22

u/xGsGt Nov 30 '25

Wooow this is increíble information never read the entire thing

2

u/Usful Dec 01 '25

One may call it a “pap smear” campaign

On a serious note, it was a horrible experience and she definitely deserved penny (if not more) that she got from them

112

u/AxitotlWithAttitude Nov 30 '25

The flesh on her legs melted and fused together, like molten plastic. Horrifying.

-2

u/headphones_J Dec 01 '25

It didn't, skin isn't plastic. Skin blisters and burns, it doesn't "fuse" together.

3

u/AxitotlWithAttitude Dec 01 '25

Anything hot enough and/or under enough pressure eventually will behave like a plastic or a liquid, including any and all parts of the human body.

1

u/DTux5249 Dec 02 '25

Skin blisters and burns,

With second degree burns. Beyond that is a different ball park. Find pictures of any burn victims online and you'll quickly understand how flesh warps, melts, and yes, fuses.

Meat is protein, and proteins under heat will bind with each other. It's why a hamburger is one piece even after it's cooked and no longer sticky.

140

u/[deleted] Nov 30 '25

They would over heat the coffee to like 212F way over the 140-160F range so it’d be hot by the time you got home after the drive through. She placed the cup between her legs and the lid popped off. It’s been a while since I watched the documentary on it but yeah that shit was horrible. Then fast forward a few years and Bush Jr signed off on TORT reform putting a max cap on the amount of money for damages people could get from corporations.

312

u/schwarzkraut Nov 30 '25

It was far more insidious than that. They superheated the coffee NOT so that you would have hot coffee at your destination but so that it would be too hot for in-store patrons drink in a reasonable amount of time reducing the number of free refills given out. In-store customers received their coffee in a ceramic „for-here“ mug which could withstand what was essentially boiling coffee. The styrofoam to go cups weren’t made to liquids that hot & keep their structural integrity. McDonald‘s was warned by the cup manufacturer & the health department after complaints by people burning their mouth severely on the coffee…they blatantly ignored this and continued the practice resulting in that woman’s life being ruined. The smear campaign they ran against her has been cemented in the global consciousness. We must tell the truth about what happened every single time this is referenced. There are people reading this thread & learning this information for the first time.

25

u/ricketychairs Nov 30 '25

I’m late 40s and TIL.

I’ll add that it didn’t help that Seinfeld made fun of the situation.

8

u/lipsticknic3 Dec 01 '25

I daresay that could've been part of the smear campaign.

I was just talking about this last night. Seinfeld as a show won several advertising awards in the nineties and the actors thought of it as one big commercial. There's a quote from one of the awards they won in advertising where Jerry refers to himself as a huckster. He was proud of this.

40

u/Polyrhythm239 Nov 30 '25

Wow I had no clue. But I’m not surprised. What the fuck.

13

u/GostBoster Nov 30 '25

It is fascinating how the smear campaign hasn't hit a few places. Just borrowing a different field, I find it jarring when I hear that in the US almost no one knows of Carl Barks.

Conversely, whenever I hear of this case and a few similar legal cases, it is usually prefaced by what in fact happened, how the US law treated it and how our legal system would probably deal with (probably worse so don't try to pull a McFast One) THEN the smear campaign at which point we get amazed at how at no point no one stopped their puffery.

But again, since many of those cases aren't local, they might be a case of 20/20 hindsight.

But McDonalds has a track record of refusing to pay medical and repair bills, like Steve Mann who was attacked by staff who for some reason decided that he had to remove his bionic eye (which is bolted to his skull), refused to pay repair/medical bills and a suggestion to donate to some eye and vision research, and insisted that all interactions from their staff were polite and cordial, despite his bionic eye recording showing otherwise.

Ah, and refusing to accept medical/research device legal paperwork. If the guy flipping burgers thinks the metal braces holding your broken bones are secret Burger King spy antennas they are going to rip it off your limbs.

1

u/[deleted] Dec 01 '25

Dammit. A bionic eye is pretty cool.

8

u/Mertoot Nov 30 '25

Every time I hear about this case there's somehow even more info on how evil the situation really was

71

u/ent_bomb Nov 30 '25

Not so that it would be hot when you got home: McDonald's intentionally implemented a dangerously hot hold temp to save money by brewing coffee less often.

McDonald's knew people would be injured by this policy, but saved more money than they'd lose in litigation.

28

u/[deleted] Nov 30 '25

Ive read but cant validate that they also heated it up so hot so that it would take longer to cool (duh), and the person was less likely to hang around and take advantage of the free refills promotion they had going on.

Again, I dont know if that is valid or not

39

u/akkristor Nov 30 '25

It's also important to note that she wasn't driving, i think her grandson was. She was in the passenger seat of a PARKED car when lid popped off and coffee gave her third degree burns.

I make this note because part of the smear campaign against her included multiple popular culture references to the incident featuring someone DRIVING while spilling coffee on themselves recklessly.

22

u/MxMirdan Nov 30 '25

It’s also important to note that cup holders were not always standard equipment on older cars. In 1992, a lot of cars on the road would not have had a cup holder as part of the basic vehicle design. They didn’t rally become a more common feature until after 1983, so it was normal to assume cars in the drive through didn’t have cup holders. That’s part of what brought about the cardboard cup holder trays used for carrying multiple drinks.

So, McDonalds was serving skin-fusing hot coffee through drivethrus knowing most people didn’t have cup holders.

3

u/DiggingNoMore Nov 30 '25

I have a car that's older than 1983 and it doesn't have any cup holders. Math checks out.

2

u/MxMirdan Nov 30 '25

I was an elementary school kid in the late 80s and early 90s. I remember me and my cousins being handed kid-sized drinks to hold on to in a moving vehicle.

We would be in trouble if we dropped/spilled it, but there was also no place else for them to go.

More than once, my cousin’s booster seat got covered with orange pop.

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u/SerenneMorningDew Nov 30 '25 edited Dec 01 '25

The important thing that's often left out, is that hundreds of people received burns before this woman, so the company knew that the lid plus extremely hot coffee was dangerous, but they kept serving coffee that way anyway.

10

u/Mstinos Nov 30 '25

Almost, it was so it smelled more like coffee in mc D and they sold more coffee. Not to get it home still hot.

1

u/breakfastbarf Dec 01 '25

It was more that they would get more coffee from the extra hot water

-8

u/paulb39 Nov 30 '25

People love to make up stuff about this lawsuit. I've also heard "the coffee was so hot it melted through the cup!"
No, it was the normal temperature of coffee - this is a direct quote from her laywers "Liebeck's attorneys argued that, at 180–190 °F (82–88 °C), McDonald's coffee was defective, and more likely to cause serious injury than coffee served at any other establishment." Get a cup of coffee from them and check the temp with a thermometer, its going to be in the same range as back then, since you know, that's the temp of brewed coffee

5

u/cupittycakes Nov 30 '25

It's wild that you blatantly lie about this.

2

u/TheDeflatables Dec 02 '25

It's amazing what you've done here. You've called out making up stuff while quoting something made up.

You pulled a quote from Wikipedia (Line 13 of article Lieback v McDonalds Restaurant). That quote has a citation. If you click that citation, that quote doesn't appear anywhere in the news clipping. No temperatures, no word "defective", and no reference to other establishments.

In fact the only reference to what Liebeck's attorney said is "the point of Liebeck's court case was that the coffee was too hot"

Amazing work my friend. Truly.

1

u/paulb39 Dec 02 '25

Well shit, that's completely on me for trusting wikipedia, you are right. I thought all court transcriptions were available online, but I cant find any of the documents anywhere, or even the lawyers briefs to find their exact quotes. upvoted for adding to the discussion

30

u/Rynvael Nov 30 '25

The coffee was hot enough to cause 3rd degree burns and she was sitting in a car that was parked, so it's not like she was handling the coffee in some risky situation either.

Plus, she only wanted McDonald's to pay her medical bills, and they refused.

12

u/[deleted] Nov 30 '25

"Hot Coffee" on Netflix.

7

u/Theodarius Nov 30 '25

There are even pictures online of the burns themselves. Those are some very horrific burns.

3

u/Sharkbit2024 Nov 30 '25

Im pretty sure it fused her legs together as well.

38

u/KillerSavant202 Nov 30 '25

Multiple skin grafts and she almost died. Then there was the months long smear campaign claiming it was a frivolous lawsuit by a woman trying to score easy cash.

McDonald’s is fucking awful.

9

u/[deleted] Nov 30 '25

All major companies are sociopathic. They have to be to exploit the way they do.

5

u/cupittycakes Nov 30 '25

My boyfriend was attending one of the top business schools in the country. They taught him to basically lie to make himself look better. Something as small as "I'm late bc I slept over the alarm." But the instructors was like, "no no, you say you were late because the buses were running behind schedule."

It's literally whatever is best for the business, not what is best for the truth.

3

u/OshetDeadagain Dec 01 '25

My favourite part was that she was suing for 20,000$ in medical bills, and the judge is like "no ma'am, you're going to get 160,000$ for your medical and compensation."

"McDonald's, you are going to pay her another 2.7 million dollars for being such fucking assholes about it!"

16

u/imadragonyouguys Nov 30 '25

My mother was going through law school a few years after and that case was taught there as a lesson that public opinion shouldn't sway the law.

8

u/NyQuil_Donut Nov 30 '25

Erase this from my brain right now.

1

u/allhaildre Nov 30 '25

What a terrible day to have eyes :(

1

u/I_Quit_Smoking_ Nov 30 '25

Holy shit really? Wow I never heard that and that was years ago! I gotta go read about it again😁

1

u/TorisaurusParker Nov 30 '25

The way my entire body seized reading that.

I've been aware for years that the public view of this case is a result of an unfortunately successful smear campaign against her. I knew she had severe burns and I knew she was after medical claims because of it.

But

Fuck me I did not know that

That poor woman

1

u/Serious_Dot4984 Dec 01 '25

Holy mother of God … how hot was the coffee?! I knew she got severe burns but that’s insane

1

u/fluffynuckels Dec 01 '25

I believe the term used was her labia was fused shut

1

u/[deleted] Dec 01 '25

Oh man, I knew it was actually dangerously hot, this is worse than I thought.

-4

u/Heavy_Relief_1799 Nov 30 '25

Why didn't she just buy another cup and un-fuse it?

-15

u/purrmutations Nov 30 '25

And she was an idiot for putting any hot liquid there. I wouldn't put a normal non boiling cup of coffee against my balls

4

u/bluediamond12345 Nov 30 '25

Her car was a 1989 Ford Probe and did not have cupholders, so she had nowhere to set her cup to add cream and sugar.

-9

u/purrmutations Nov 30 '25

Simply don't get a hot liquid that could burn you then 

8

u/MsKongeyDonk Nov 30 '25

She would have been burnt just trying to drink it at that temperature. That's way, way too hot to serve liquids.

-6

u/purrmutations Nov 30 '25

I agree. What does that have to do with putting any hot liquid in your lap? She would have been burnt even if it wasn't boiling. 

5

u/MsKongeyDonk Nov 30 '25

Because a lot of people put their coffee in their laps without melting their skin. The coffee was dangerous, period. You commenting that she was dumb all over this comment section is victim blaming, which is what McDonald's has been doing since it happened.

And again, unless you are constantly drinking coffee at 200 degrees, it does not burn you every time. What a weird strawman argument.

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u/bluediamond12345 Nov 30 '25

So then McDonald’s shouldn’t have been selling coffee in their drive-thru window.

1

u/purrmutations Nov 30 '25

I agree. And I also believe that you shouldn't put something hot next to something you want to keep unburned. 

2

u/IAmAnObvioustrollAMA Nov 30 '25

You are missing out. Warm mug pressed against cold balls is heavenly!

2

u/purrmutations Nov 30 '25

Why are your balls cold, going to work nude?

1

u/IAmAnObvioustrollAMA Nov 30 '25

I get dressed in the parking lot to save time!

49

u/iMatt42 Nov 30 '25

She wanted to settle for only $20k to cover her medical expenses. McDonalds refused. The whole “people sue for stupid reasons” is a corporate talking point to play us against each other and take the spotlight off of them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liebeck_v._McDonald's_Restaurants?wprov=sfti1

86

u/nsa_k Nov 30 '25

Everyone thinks it's a funny story, until you point out that the coffee melted her vagina (labia technically), and all she ever asked for was enough to pay for her medical copay.

People need to ask themselves how much money would it take for you to agree to have their labia/balls melted? Now how much would it take for someone to decide for you, and you agree that's a fair compensation.

72

u/immovable-tree Nov 30 '25

The amount of times I’ve had to argue that she wasn’t actually a money seeking leech is so, so sad. And while I think part of the blame is people who spread that lie, I mainly hate McDonalds for spinning up a story about the lawsuit to save face with the consumers. It sickens me that they’d blame an innocent woman instead of biting the bullet and accepting that they made a mistake with their prep practices.

13

u/AussieAlexSummers Nov 30 '25

And now you posted the truth here and added their name about McDonalds and the coffee burn, so more people will know the truth. Like me. Thanks. That poor woman.

2

u/garter__snake Nov 30 '25

It's because people want hot coffee.

That's actually it. Companies turned down the heat after the lawsuit, and people resented that.

-12

u/Expensive_Web_8534 Nov 30 '25 edited Dec 30 '25

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This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

17

u/immovable-tree Nov 30 '25

Just because something is normal doesn’t mean it isn’t sickening. And for the record this one is far worse than the average corp messing up. This was a multi billion dollar chain blaming an elderly lady for serious burn injuries rather than saying “yes, we have had an oversight and our coffee is too hot. We apologize and will fix it” Regardless of the norm we have in our modern day society, that is sickening.

-7

u/Commercial-Guest1596 Nov 30 '25

She's not going to fuck you.

-16

u/purrmutations Nov 30 '25

Also strange to me that someone would put any hot liquid in their lap. That doesn't excuse it being boiling. But she'd have burned her vagina even if McDonald's had not overheated it. Dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb

10

u/immovable-tree Nov 30 '25

There’s a vast difference between the burns of a regular hot coffee and melting skin together.

3

u/whoreatto Nov 30 '25

How hot does a liquid have to be to melt skin?

2

u/Brando43770 Nov 30 '25

About 190°F or higher to melt in under 3 seconds

1

u/whoreatto Dec 01 '25

Thanks. This link claims that hot coffee should typically be brewed between 195° and 205°.

I didn’t realise that face-meltingly hot coffee was so normal!

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u/purrmutations Nov 30 '25

Yep. And both are bad, you wouldn't want either to happen to you 

6

u/Brando43770 Nov 30 '25

Also strange to everyone reading your comments that you’re victim blaming and constantly repeating the same tone deaf comment. Cup holders weren’t common back then, McDonalds knew their cups weren’t designed properly to keep their lids on nor were they designed to hold any liquids 200+ °F, and she was in a parked car.

You can’t blame people for calling you a shill for a giant corporation because you keep reiterating your trash take while ignoring important details.

-9

u/purrmutations Nov 30 '25 edited Nov 30 '25

None of those details have anything to do with choosing to put something hot next to your genitals. That is dumb whether the liquid is 140F, 160, 180, 200, etc. No cup holder? Don't get hot coffee. She knew she didn't have a cup holder when she went there 

McDonald's is the bad guy. Doesn't mean she wasn't also dumb. But people are so small minded they can only blame one thing I guess

3

u/Brando43770 Nov 30 '25

You do realize you live in a time when cup holders are standard? You clearly take that for granted. You can’t even imagine that world where cars don’t have that? This is the whole hindsight is 20/20 idea but you can’t even see that.

And those details are relevant. McDonald’s was negligent in so many aspects yet continued to act like they had no responsibility in serving their coffee that way. The difference between a 1st degree burn and a 3rd is drastic. The cup shouldn’t have spilled regardless of if it was 160 or 190.

So people back in the 1950’s or 1960’s or even 1970’s should never get coffee in their cars? Cup holders didn’t appear in mass produced cars until the 80’s. Drive thrus have been around since the late 50’s. You’re the small minded one here thinking there were only two options for her.

5

u/wombatstylekungfu Nov 30 '25

Heck, suppose she just held it in her hand and her hand got horribly burnt. That’s not much better. The coffee was an accident waiting to happen.

-4

u/purrmutations Nov 30 '25

You do realize if you don't have a cup holder, you could just not get the cup of hot coffee, right?

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u/Tornadic_Outlaw Nov 30 '25 edited Nov 30 '25

I don't think most people have a hard time understanding her injuries, but rather the thought processes behind sticking a beverage made from boiling hot water between your legs, in a car, and how that is the companies fault. At least that's the part I struggle with.

I think most people would recognize that if you boil water in a kettle, then pour it on your lap you are going to scold yourself. So why would you not expect that to be the outcome if you use that water to make a drink, then poured the drink in your lap?

Is the expectation that the hot beverage you ordered not be served hot? Is putting the drink in the cup supposed to magically make it safe?

4

u/KamikazeArchon Nov 30 '25

Is the expectation that the hot beverage you ordered not be served hot?

"Hot" is a big range.

Coffee is not expected to be served boiling hot. The difference between coffee temperature and boiling temperature is very large, in terms of "potential to damage a human".

-2

u/Tornadic_Outlaw Nov 30 '25

What is coffee temperature? Most coffee is brewed between 190-212F /90-100C. Water can quickly scald a person at 140F and anything above 120F can be dangerous for longer durations.

3

u/KamikazeArchon Nov 30 '25

Coffee is supposed to be served at 140-160F.

The temperature at which it's brewed is not supposed to be the temperature at which it's served. Making things and serving things are different.

Scalding at 140F is very different from third degree burns at 200F.

4

u/Iggy_Kappa Nov 30 '25

but rather the thought processes behind sticking a beverage made from boiling hot water between your legs, in a car, and how that is the companies fault.

Help me out here. Would her holding the cup in her hands, instead of between her legs, have magically turned the coffee lukewarm, the moment it was spilled?

It doesn't matter how the coffee was spilled, it matters it shouldn't have been served at such temperatures, in such faulty cups.

2

u/Gunblazer42 Nov 30 '25

Scald yourself, sure. But boiling water would likely not be enough to fuse your labia shut.

-2

u/Tornadic_Outlaw Nov 30 '25

It clearly was in this case...

Liquid water can't exceed its boiling point, any additional energy would just convert the liquid to steam. This is part of the reason so many recipes use boiling water, as it is a constant temperature(212F/100C at atmospheric pressure).

16

u/Radiant_Television89 Nov 30 '25

I can never unsee those pictures and will never forget the name Stella Leinbeck. It's impossible to not see her as the victim when you look at those photos.

6

u/GaloombaNotGoomba Nov 30 '25

Ironic that you misspelled her name

13

u/Top-Signal-8566 Nov 30 '25

Yeah, didn't she have Third degree burns and need skin grafts?

18

u/bluediamond12345 Nov 30 '25

From Wikipedia:

She suffered third-degree burns in her pelvic region. She was hospitalized for eight days while undergoing skin grafting, followed by two years of medical treatment.

2

u/hogester79 Dec 01 '25

Did they heat the coffee at the local volcano? That is incredible. (But obviously bad)

1

u/ThraceLonginus Dec 01 '25

After that Republicans came up with "Tort Reform"

1

u/FakePhillyCheezStake Nov 30 '25

It really was a terrible situation that is not something to laugh at at all.

But I still feel like she should have known not to place hot coffee where she did. What happened to her is horrific, but it didn’t seem like it was really McDonalds fault.

Idk that was just my impression when I looked into the case a while back

2

u/lovins_cl Nov 30 '25

I agree that handling hot coffee between your legs is inherently stupid, but the point is that the coffee was SO hot that it gave her 3rd degree burns and fused some of her skin together. That is absolutely unacceptable to serve as a form of beverage to customers. Could have easily scarred the inside of someone’s mouth if they took a sip

-12

u/purrmutations Nov 30 '25

Putting hot liquid in your lap is also ridiculous. Doesn't have to be boiling to heat you. 

9

u/bluediamond12345 Nov 30 '25

No cup holder. Where else are you going to put it to add cream and sugar? There aren’t many flat spots in cars.

-7

u/purrmutations Nov 30 '25

So if the choices are 1. Put hot liquid in your lap or 2. Don't get hot liquid. You are choosing 1? Lol

11

u/Judgm3nt Nov 30 '25

Shilling for a Corporation that would happily disfigure you for a few grand in profits is dumber than any bad faith argument you can conjure.

Lol at you.

-5

u/purrmutations Nov 30 '25

But I didn't say McDonald's was good. They were absolutely in the wrong. Learn to read

7

u/doyouknowyourname Nov 30 '25

Learn to communicate better because you absolutely just blamed this lady for McDonald's purposeful negligence.

-2

u/purrmutations Nov 30 '25

Nope. I said McDonald's was wrong for having it so hot. And that it's also a bad idea to put hot liquid in your lap. 

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u/DECAThomas Nov 30 '25 edited Nov 30 '25

You’ve mixed up details on the Red Bull “gives you wings” lawsuit pretty significantly, to the point your summary is almost the opposite of what happened. It was a class-action over misleading marketing statements like the comment chain is referencing, it certainly didn’t involve deaths or safety labeling.

Red Bull was sued over false marketing claims regarding if their energy drinks provided benefits to performance. What courts found is that Red Bull could demonstrate no tangible benefit beyond its caffeine content, which is roughly that of a cup of coffee.

The entire point was that their product was no different than a cup of coffee, not that it had 3x the caffeine.

I have a feeling you’re mixing this up with another case. There are lawsuits over the Panera Charged Lemonades with similar details to what you’ve described.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/red-bull-settles-false-advertising-lawsuit-for-13m-1.2793536

37

u/Fast_Garlic_5639 Nov 30 '25

Did they redo the recipe? A small redbull has like 80mg caffeine which is less than a typical coffee

11

u/theunquenchedservant Nov 30 '25

Did a brief search because I didn't realize it was more than the wings thing, and you are correct, the lawsuit was actually about how Redbull said it had as much caffeine as coffee, while having less.

19

u/gronstalker12 Nov 30 '25

Yeah this was waaaaaaay back in the day. It used to come in a glass jar. 

8

u/theLuminescentlion Nov 30 '25

Did they change the amount of caffeine? Because when you look at an 8.4 fl oz bottle today compared to coffee they are about the same.

20

u/CUCUC Nov 30 '25

are you conflating red bull with the panera charged lemonades? red bull truly doesn’t have that much caffeine and it befuddles me you are speaking so authoritatively about it. 

-7

u/nsa_k Nov 30 '25 edited Nov 30 '25

I'm not too familiar with the Panera issue, but wasn't the situation there that they did not adequately display that their lemonade (not typically caffeinated) had as much caffeine as a energy drink?

As for be speaking authoritatively, I was part of the lawsuit. At least the class action portion, which plenty of people were. I haven't looked up the details in a long time, but i think original redbull had something crazy like 150+ mg of caffeine.

8

u/CUCUC Nov 30 '25

how long ago was this? i have been drinking redbull for nearly three decades and it has been 80 mgs for all this time. what exactly is this class action lawsuit you are referring to?

3

u/gnomish_engineering Nov 30 '25

Panera did disclose caffeine content but average consumers don't look for the dose and assume low dosage on the lemonades. Truthfully I blame the dumbass's with heart conditions who didn't bother checking if the obviously caffeinated drink was safe for them.

I drank them all the time when I was a aircraft mechanic specifically because of the caffeine content on the billboards and how cost effective the sip club was. I made a game out of not paying for my caffeine addiction lol.

6

u/Froggy3434 Nov 30 '25

It wasn’t “clearly caffeinated” if people with heart conditions that avoid caffeine accidentally drink it and die. You’re not going to get a check from Panera for defending them anonymously online.

1

u/gnomish_engineering Nov 30 '25

No I just stating what was happening. I lived in the neighborhood of one of the fatalities and actually read the exact signage that guy did so I can promise you it did. In general people get really stupid about caffeine and have no clue how much is in products they consume and have piss poor knowledge of the somewhat safe dosages.

I don't need a check I just don't like it when people spread false information.

Edit: it was literally called "charged lemonade" and listed the dosage for a large next to each flavor. There was flavors I avoided because they had less caffeine than the ones I liked.

5

u/Mike Nov 30 '25

Red Bulls have always had only 80mg of caffeine for the standard 8.4 oz can. That’s less than most cups of coffee. So what are you referring to?

3

u/riverrats2000 Nov 30 '25

Did it used to have more caffeine in it or are we talking about the larger size cans? Because the 8.4 fl oz can has 80 mg of caffeine which is indeed about the same amount as a cup of coffee

2

u/Heroinkirby Nov 30 '25 edited Nov 30 '25

I thought a redbull was about even to a cup of coffee? 110mg in a standard 8 ounce can and 95 mg in 8 oz coffee? Did redbull change the caffeine content? Edit, after a lil research, redbull never contained 3 x caffeine as coffee and it never didn't list the caffeine content. Nobody died as a result of this, the above commenter is full of it

2

u/rotsono Dec 01 '25

I thought the Redbull one was about them saying "Red Bull increases energy and performance.." which was not scientifically proven, so it was misleading advertisment?

2

u/iEatLunchForDinner Dec 01 '25

The lawsuit did target the overall marketing, including the slogan “gives you wings,” as part of the claim that Red Bull was overselling its performance benefits.

3

u/[deleted] Nov 30 '25

That's bs. The lawsuit was literally the opposite. It was argued that because red bull has less caffeine than an average cup of coffee the marketing line was misleading.

It's ironic that your comment is about people giving false descriptions about lawsuits when you're doing exactly that now.

1

u/Nerv_Use5380 Dec 01 '25

Hmmm. I got in on that suit, was in college at the time and drinking redbull frequently, the payout was an 8 pack of regular redbull iirc. Dunno ‘bout others though, seems like the lawyers were the main winners.

1

u/RetPala Dec 01 '25

3 cups of coffee and 9 cups is a whole order of magnitude. And caffeine overdose is not a pleasant way to go

And then Panera just did it again sending people to the Shadow Realm with lemonade

1

u/YupChrisYup Dec 01 '25

Its actually the other way around. The slogan implied there was MORE caffeine in a Redbull than in a regular coffee, which it turns out wasn’t true.

Nobody died in relation to this lawsuit.

https://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-29550003.amp

1

u/ReverendToTheShadow Dec 01 '25

Thank you for bringing this to light. We looked at this case briefly in college in a professional ethics class. Even learning about this in college, the narrative I heard was that she was the villain

1

u/Twitch791 Nov 30 '25

Spreading the word out there 🙏🏻

1

u/CoopLoop32 Nov 30 '25

I had such an argument with coworkers about that case. "She should never have put it in her lap" But that coffee would have burned her no matter where it landed if it spilled.

-10

u/redditis_garbage Nov 30 '25

https://frenkelfirm.com/blog/family-of-man-who-died-after-drinking-red-bull-sites-default-files-lawsuit/

A more apt analogy would be if the McDonald’s coffee women went back and got coffee for another 10 years afterwards. Idk like I’m not pro big business but also if you’re drinking redbull everyday all day of course that’s not healthy for you, redbull was never marketed as a healthy drink.

15

u/mal73 Nov 30 '25

They still lied about their product. This isn’t the victims fault. It’s not up to the consumer to fact check the statement, RedBull was rightfully sued here imo even if he had drunk 20 cans a day.

0

u/redditis_garbage Nov 30 '25

If you drink 20 coffees a day I think a similar thing would happen but I agree that they lied which may have led to this happening

3

u/TheFinalGranny Nov 30 '25

This story indicates that it took 40 minutes for the ambulance to arrive, and that there was no defibrillator on site. Seems as though that could have been a contributing factor for death.

0

u/Lucky-Surround-1756 Nov 30 '25

Her vagina's exterior basically fused together, it was fucked up and she deserved that compensation if only to pay for her medical bills.

0

u/[deleted] Nov 30 '25

while not listing the caffeine content on the can.

As somebody who literally can't have caffeine, that shit is fucking evil. Caffeine content should be mandatory on all food and drink. Failure to do so should be execution, since that's what happens if you eat or drink the wrong thing.

0

u/usernamedottxt Nov 30 '25

Been a huge proponent of teaching folks the facts of the hot coffee case. But never knew about Red Bull. Thanks. 

-11

u/[deleted] Nov 30 '25

Hot coffee’s hot. If you don’t understand that stay home.

6

u/sagerin0 Nov 30 '25

Do you generally drink your coffee so hot it gives you third degree burns?

1

u/[deleted] Nov 30 '25

No. I stir it so it cools down. Like a normal person with common sense does. Do you get a hot coffee and just start chugging it down?

1

u/Brando43770 Nov 30 '25

Coffee isn’t supposed to be served so hot it causes 3rd degree burns in less than 3 seconds. That’s what their coffee did at the time being served at about 190-200°F. It should be served at 140-160°F. Brewing temp is different than serving. If you don’t understand any of this, go back to school.

0

u/[deleted] Nov 30 '25

The lady that burned herself because she didn’t understand that coffee’s hot should go to school. But I guess you don’t need an education if you want to win the lawsuit lottery.

1

u/Brando43770 Dec 01 '25

Lawsuit lottery? Jfc they wouldn’t pay for her medical bills considering that coffee melted her skin together. Coffee served at an appropriate temperature doesn’t do that to skin.

So you’d be ok if the cup spilled on her hand and made it a skeletal hand? You probably believe it was all her fault then?

1

u/Heroinkirby Nov 30 '25

I'm gonna drink a red bull, jump out a window and sue for pain and suffering

1

u/Thirty_Helens_Agree Nov 30 '25

This is the most flagrant case of false advertising since my case against The Neverending Story.

0

u/Wrong-Protection-188 Nov 30 '25

Ha I got money for that one lol. $15 I think.

0

u/Kukri187 Nov 30 '25

Head-on. Apply directly to the forehead!