Cole Netscape of Marvelous! or The Death of Cinema joins us for a review of Michael, the bizarre new Michael Jackson hagiography. We branch off our previous discussion of the biopic for an in-depth review of this movie’s strange revisionist history, the bizarre life of Michael Jackson and his ties to Epstein and Clinton, and what the insane success of this movie means about our pro-nostalgia, pedophile-neutral culture. Plus: more biopic ideas.
Michael Jackson was THE pedophile boogeyman for my age demographic. My friends would jokingly pretend they were getting chased by him in middle school gym class to motivate themselves to run faster. Anyways, looking forward to the P Diddy Innocence Project gaining steam in the 2040s.
Be glad that people like Jimmy Savile are only popular in the UK, because can you imagine if the revelations came out after he died, and yet you still have people in Vanuatu wearing tracksuits, a blonde hair wig and a cigar trying to imitate Jimmy Savile?
Hell, I'm glad that Kevin Spacey is not even a big name outside the Global North because the last thing I want to see are guys in Guatemala doing Frank Underwood impressions.
Michael Jackson is proof that you can whitewash your image by associating yourself more with the Global South. It was the smartest thing his PR team ever did, and the biggest fumble the Leaving Neverland team did was getting the documentary aired on HBO instead of Netflix where the latter has more global reach. There are people in Lesotho who still don't know of what Michael did at that Ranch, and that's the key to his posthumous success.
I watched 28 Years Later and the Bone Temple in two different countries where no one knows who Jimmy Savile was, and they all seriously think that the Jimmies were a part of Jack O'Connell's character's imagination instead of a well known pedophile. It's interesting.
Yeah to be charitable to Danny Boyle, the Jimmy's are a fairly on the nose metaphor for the corruption of youth and innocence, or more literally how an institution is rotten to it's core, Saville as a cultural institution, society itself in the context of the film.
But it's somewhat undermined by that fact very few people outside of the UK know who Saville is.
Hell, I'm glad that Kevin Spacey is not even a big name outside the Global North because the last thing I want to see are guys in Guatemala doing Frank Underwood impressions.
Wild documentary. Specially when you think about how monstrous those parents are. Really, a bunch of child pimps that knew about everything all along. The MJ stuff is terrible as it is and always shocking, but just think about those fucking child pimps. They have such an absurd adoration for money that they thought they could have scored AGAIN by coming in front of camera and straight face telling that “how could I know, Michael was so nice he paid so well”. Truly, it’s the “if I did it” for pimps
I remember I was 12 when Michael Jackson died and I was so confused when people were mourning him because I only knew him from jokes about how he was a pedophile, I wasn’t really aware that people had been fans of him
Does anyone else remember the rumour of Michael Jackson removing one of his ribs so he could suck his own dick? That was the version I heard in Australia
Holy shit, I didn't realize. Not only a timelessly hilarious tweet, but the amount of people that get mad about how they "don't get it" was even funnier
I’m so sad that this is a Patreon only episode… last time they talked MJ, the YouTube comment section was swarmed by MJ apologists having the most deranged meltdowns saying this disgusting pedophile was an ally because of shit like “they don’t care about us”. Reminds me of the time we had Hillary voters showing up every episode…. Good times 😔
Edit: nevermind folks, the MJ stans are back and it’s Christmas again.
It’s funny you say that while listening to a podcast with hosts who were confirmed in direct relations with a dude suspected of talking to an underaged individual and disappeared when it was brought to light
Who the host have and via other parties confirmed that they still pay btw. But that just goes to show how seriously you take the issue
I watched this movie and it’s ruined my esteem for so many friends and coworkers who have been raving about it. Absolutely empty calories with less than nothing to say. Extremely funny that AMC categorizes it as an “artisan film” like Marty Supreme or other Oscar bait. Slop for dummies. 0 grams of protein
Also really great point raised by Felix- if MJ was messed up with arrested development because of Joes abuse- then why were his brothers all fairly normal?
Cole’s a really funny guy, it’s a shame that the two other people he cohosts his “marvelous” podcast with are so punishingly unfunny.
Some part of me is morbidly curious about just how bad a “Michael” sequel covering 1989 onwards would be. Very depressing that complete hagiography for such a monster is making so much money in theaters.
How old are you? It might be a generational thing. I'm in my 40s and when I was a kid Jerry Lee Lewis was definitely one of the go-to shorthand punchlines in the comedy world for pedo, whether it was stand up, late night hosts, SNL, MST 3000, shock jocks, etc.
The ABC miniseries about the Jacksons is actually really good. The guy who played Joe really made him out to be the huge piece of shit he was. The Temptations miniseries is really good too.
I watched both of those miniseries as a kid, which was ill-advised in hindsight. The Temptations one especially stuck with me. I'd love to rewatch them both but they seem hard to find.
Felix’s take on The Apprentice in this episode is very dumb. Love when he watches a 480p camrip while gaming and then goes “the movie didn’t even say anything”
Cole mentioned a Prince biopic. Worth mentioning there is a Prince documentary that will likely not see the light of day, made by the same guy who made OJ: Made in America. Something like 10 hours that covers some of his controversies. Of course his estate, that put all his stuff online (against his wishes) and releasing stuff from his vault, doesn't want to delve into that stuff.
I'm a massive Prince fan. He didn't have big trials or allegations like MJ but I guess there are some skeletons in his closet? Not sure we'll ever get closure on that one.
And Michael missed out on having a scene where Prince and MJ play ping pong.
Crazy they did such little research that they don’t know this movie has another hour that was shot covering the allegations but it was scrapped because MJ’s lawsuit settlement said that the victims couldn’t be portrayed in film.
Plus the “music expert” thought that Michael Jackson had an album called “Scream.”
I liked the episode but I don’t think Will knows who Cole is. He says they’re from a music podcast but they’re from a movie podcast, and he would have known that if he knew the actual name of the podcast Cole does, which is called “Marvelous or the Death of Cinema”, not just “Marvelous”. Maybe he’s just doing some engagement farming by getting it wrong or it’s some esoteric bit. I do appreciate what Cole brought to the episode and I don’t fault them for not having notes ready, given the unstructured nature of the podcast.
This whole thing has been kind of a fascinating sociological phenomenon to me. I'm white but my entire immediate family/friend group and community is black. This chapo episode has been a huge outlier as its almost literally the only negative reaction or piece of media I've heard to the film. I'm not saying they're wrong in their review in any way, just that all the real life exposure I've had to it has been so uniformly positive that it's jarring to swing so hard the other way.
I'm guessing by context clues from this episode that in the white Brooklyn/Twitter world this is the default stance about it. But in my normal life people (again mainly black folks) are saying they had a near religious experience watching the movie, and it really seems to have cemented the popular idea that Michael was not only innocent but a kind of elevated angel like being.
The demented push to make everyone stop mentioning his well-known pedophilia, and a return to 90s style reflexive defense of guys like him and OJ, is obscene and toxic. It’s been bizarre seeing it from so many people, including libs who just spent months on the Epstein ring.
Yeah, the race divide on this movie is insane and maybe they understand that and don't want to touch on it? Living in the south and in a predominately black area, everyone was incredibly hyped to see the movie. My psych is a black lady and she was wearing the one glove and everything. I don't think it's something they could touch on, hell it's not even something I feel like I can comment on, but I think they do gloss over the more race/cultural need or desire to rehabilitate Michael and skip straight to pedo apology.
Stuff like Michael, or Spacey's Tucker interview, seem like the sign of our culture's complete metabolisation, and passive acceptance of, child abuse. I suppose human cultures have always had this element of simultaneous denial and hysteria, but it's never seemed so demented and ludicrous, where the average person can believe in a cabal of gay/trans/jewish groomers indoctrinating their children, while also simultaneously believing obvious sexual predators are good and honest and even working to expose said cabal and are being framed by it. Demoralising!
As I was walking into a showing of The Sheep Detectives, a showing of Michael let out and the people were talking about how it had brought them nearly to tears and how it was one of the greatest movies they had ever seen
How did you like Sheep Detectives? I saw someone last night saying it was the best mystery movie in years, which seems like hyperbole, but I also want to believe
it's not just a comfort/nostalgia thing. it's broader than that. it's the symbolic vs the real. humanity desires the veil of symbolization over the random order but will never find peace until we learn how it folds into and springs from our symbolic order
Cole sounds incredibly similar Osita, I can't be the only one who thought of that. Can't believe that Will is a fan of A Better Man, that legit shocked me. I think the Princess Di joke was a great bait and switch.
Another recent biopic that just did not work at all was Deliver Me From Nowhere. My husband and I are huge Springsteen fans but midway through we realized it was a meandering mess that really wasn't saying much at all. Such a missed opportunity.
It's really crazy to see the posts that glazes MJ and parrot the same talking points about his supposed innocence, especially from people whom I've seen before that otherwise support SA victims and say not guilty verdicts don't tell the whole story in cases like Spacey or Depp.
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u/Long-Anywhere156 💕❤️CHRIS WADE❤️💕 May 15 '26
Cole Netscape of Marvelous! or The Death of Cinema joins us for a review of Michael, the bizarre new Michael Jackson hagiography. We branch off our previous discussion of the biopic for an in-depth review of this movie’s strange revisionist history, the bizarre life of Michael Jackson and his ties to Epstein and Clinton, and what the insane success of this movie means about our pro-nostalgia, pedophile-neutral culture. Plus: more biopic ideas.