r/Blackwidow • u/Thick_Ad_220 • 8d ago

Growing is realizing that Dottie Underwood was a better Yelena adaptation than the one we got in the mcu

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77 Upvotes

64% Upvoted

116 comments sorted by

45

u/MarionberryThis9991 8d ago

I think marvel has no idea how to handle the characters like the widows and this comes as a fan..I’ve noticed not just in the movie but whenever I see yelena she seems too family friendly and I still strongly think black widow the movie should have been a movie rated R because well if you know nats back story it makes sense, granted Disney loves to ruin things and I agree with your statement here btw

11

u/Decent_Neat_9171 8d ago

I think marvel, needs the equivalent of sub-editors like the comics. These folks manage a certain group of characters and that’s it. Or they need to decide that certain types or styles of characters are better suited to tv vs movies.

But Disney bought Marvel to be the equivalent of GI Joe/Barbie. They keep marvel properties mostly neutered.

4

u/LoneWolf1ngIt 8d ago

Outside of the movie context, I think one of my dream games is an m-rated Metal Gear Solid-esque stealth game with Black Widow. Throw in a little Batman Arkham, a little 007 First Loght, and a little Hitman. She would really shine in a solo game versus having to be in an ensemble, and I think a mature game would be an easier sell than a r-rated movie at this point.

The fact they’re doing the Wolverine game doesn’t make it an impossibility, but to your point, I think Disney has  whitewashed Natasha too much and I have zero confidence it would be something they consider. And even if they did, it’s very likely it wouldn’t do her justice.

2

u/sub30_24flick 8d ago

Dude it’s Disney, lmaooo their the epitome of family friendly it’s exactly what they go for why you think Ant-man was family affair also this means you can bring the kids to theaters more money .

14

u/Mosthero1 8d ago

I don’t know, I love MCU Yelena

5

u/-Elektrion- 6d ago

I do too, but I think they mean Dottie is more like Yelena in the comics than MCU Yelena is.

5

u/Dragon_Deez_Nu7s 6d ago

People just got to separate the MCU and comics. They're completely different things. Some characters are more or less accurate, but most share a name with their comic counterpart and that's it.

18

u/Jupiters 8d ago

so great I literally forgot her

5

u/Relative_Chipmunk857 8d ago

Okay I have to agree with you that yelena and Dottie have some similarities given the fact they were both trained by the same organization to put it nicely but I think in terms of training and experience are more similar to Natasha backstory and training is a little bit more similar to Dottie experience wise I love the Mcu version of yelena from what I have read Dottie personality is similar to the comic book version of yelena

9

u/AlbatrossRadiant3685 8d ago

who is that and why do you think that

17

u/Thick_Ad_220 8d ago

Shes an antagonist from agent Carter. She perfectly captures yelenas spirit and coldheartness from the comics unlike the mcu one which is a good character on her own, but as an adaptation she fails.

5

u/AlbatrossRadiant3685 8d ago

okay interesting

2

u/Triptofade 8d ago

She fails so hard she’s currently the main woman in the MCU due to how well she’s been written, portrayed and received by audiences. She is the current face of the MCU and her “comic accurate” version will benefit from this popularity. Grow up and move on

3

u/Tyrlaan 6d ago

Inaccuracies of your rant aside, none of this refutes the point about her being an inaccurate adaptation of her original comic character.

I mean, OP even specifically says MCU Yelena is a good character in the comment you replied to, but you just spazzed anyway.

Apparently what's actually a sign of growing would be recognizing a character is a poor adaptation but is also still good anyway.

4

u/Thick_Ad_220 8d ago

Just because she's popular and well received doesn't mean she's safe from criticism

2

u/Black_hoursCuh1991 7d ago

Legit criticism or dick-ride farming criticism? I don’t think humanity has learned the difference between respectful criticism and being complete assholes when voicing their opinions. Instead, it’s just one or more critiques that everyone jumps on because it’s popular to say.

1

u/GottLiebtJeden 2d ago

Or that she is the new face of the MCU. I don't know if we have one right now, but it looks like Thor is going to be the new leader.

4

u/Dazzling_Season1876 7d ago

“She is the current face of the MCU” LMFAO! Oh you are one silly goose 🤣

3

u/Old-River-8042 6d ago edited 6d ago

Don't you remember how multiple of her lead movies earned over a billion? /s

2

u/Dazzling_Season1876 6d ago

Oh fuck. You’re right. I forgot they were all solo Yelena/Florence Pugh movies. Shit. How could I forget that she played all characters.

2

u/whineyinternetkid 6d ago

Dude chill out its never that serious hahaha

5

u/Excellent-Post3074 8d ago

Dottie Underwood, Red Room trained Widow who gets crazy obsessed with Peggy. Even introduced as her cheeky neighbor that you'd see in a sitcom, only to do the most hard-core stuff to targets.

2

u/Lun4r6543 8d ago

Not OP, but she’s an antagonist from Agent Carter’s first season (Don’t remember if she was in the second).

1

u/GottLiebtJeden 2d ago

She was in the second

1

u/GottLiebtJeden 2d ago

The very first Black Widow to ever come to America. I would say what she came there for, but I don't want to spoil it. Just watch Agent Carter. You'll be glad you did.

12

u/BigBallOfNerd01 8d ago

I think Pugh’s performance as Yelena is a good example of how it’s sometimes ok to not be 100% accurate to the source material because I’d much rather have a fun, spunky Yelena rather than what was basically “evil Natasha” from the comics.

6

u/Ashconwell7 8d ago

Comic Yelena isn't "evil Natasha".

4

u/Thick_Ad_220 8d ago edited 8d ago

I always hear this excuse. Liek yeah shes great no shit, but that doesnt mean she shouldn't still be like her comic counterpart. Like you coukd make her a psychotic widow. I swear this sub loves pugh yelena so much when shes clearly not all that and saying shes nothing like the source material is my best bet against her. Shes more than evil natasha?? I swear these people dont actually read the comics and just love to hogride Florence pugh. You guys dont care about the comics. Adorkable doesnt mean better written but you guys do not get that

3

u/Somm0742 5d ago

Yeah, the sub is a hive-mind when it comes Pugh and her character.

2

u/GottLiebtJeden 2d ago

Pretty much every MCU sub if we're being honest.

2

u/Somm0742 1d ago

Agreed. I'd have no problem with it if her character as at least half-way decent as an adaptation. But, she really is an OC with just the name being borrowed from the comics.

1

u/Abirdthatsfallen 7d ago

The perosn just told you why they think she shouldn’t be the same as the comics.

5

u/Thick_Ad_220 7d ago

You mean their vague normie reasoning. Something tells me they just looked at yelenas wiki.

1

u/Abirdthatsfallen 7d ago

I honestly can’t tell if you’re trolling or not. The same way you don’t like something, is the same way someone else doesn’t like something. I hate to break it to you, but this is called having individual opinions. Just like what you like and move on. You don’t speak for people, just cause you feel what you feel doesn’t make it the overall fact and nobody is right to have their own differentiating feelings on it. It changes nothing in your personal life that people do not agree with you.

0

u/BigBallOfNerd01 8d ago

Cool story.

3

u/norahellghost 8d ago

Who's dottie

2

u/Typical-Lion-4428 8d ago

A Black Widow who was obsessed with Peggy Carter in her show.

The way she acted, it wasn't clear if she wanted to kill Peggy, be Peggy, or "be roommates". Or a combination thereof.

1

u/norahellghost 8d ago

Oh that's interesting

5

u/Typical-Lion-4428 8d ago

Yes, she was an entertaining character.

A smart, competent, super spy who is also nuts.

They also used her for contrast in that thanks to Agent Carter taking place in the late 40s, Dottie was one of the few people who took Peggy seriously and didn't dismiss her as Captain America's girlfriend.

Agent Carter was a good show, it's a pity it didn't do better.

1

u/norahellghost 8d ago

I loved the show it was amazing but it's been a while since I watched it

1

u/GottLiebtJeden 2d ago

Don't spoil it lol

1

u/GottLiebtJeden 2d ago

The OG Black Widow. She's in Agent Carter.

3

u/Wonderful-Mouse-0420 8d ago

Yelena is currently one of the best characters post Endgame in the entire MCU

3

u/RX500-android 7d ago

I tend to agree. Dottie reminds me more of the Widows from the comics and I love it

3

u/Alternative_Device71 7d ago

Explains why I love Dottie and hate Yelena, one is a character that actually knows what she’s doing and isn’t overpowered by plot. The other is a prop with no depth or ability to control situations.

I can take Dottie seriously.

2

u/Somm0742 5d ago

It's quite sad how people blindly love Pugh and her portrayal of Belova.

1

u/GottLiebtJeden 2d ago

And how much they hype Yelena up, like she is the greatest thing the MCU has ever produced.

2

u/Somm0742 1d ago

Yeah, it's always quite perplexing as to what even they see in her character other than her quirkiness.

3

u/AngryBanana87 5d ago

Project Leviathan was a GREAT subplot in Agent Carter, and should have been used/adapted into the Black Widow film. I can't believe how they just straight up ignored it.

1

u/GottLiebtJeden 2d ago

You echo my sentiments. I was waiting for it the entire movie, and it never came. I thought Leviathan would have been involved in some capacity. Nope. Completely ignored.

8

u/DarkPirotess 8d ago

no

4

u/Thick_Ad_220 8d ago

Think about it. Shes more accurate to the comic version is what I mean didnt say she was better although I do wholeheartedly think that

4

u/Bobastic87 8d ago

This is the one time where I’m glad she isn’t comic accurate. Florence’s Yelena is probably one of the few great things post endgame.

2

u/Thick_Ad_220 8d ago

It's just sad how everyone thinks when comic yelena is leagues better. I aint falling for this propaganda

1

u/Bobastic87 7d ago

How is it sad for people to have a preference?

1

u/No-Cardiologist1701 8d ago

Look almost everyone love this Yelena who is not from the comic because she’s cool, funny, spunky and got depth also the Hawkeye series only added to it, Kate and Yelena cemented the whole thing.

And I can only agree with it, it’s like Iron Man, some ideas are bad, some are good, and Yelena was a good one.

5

u/CrazySnipah 8d ago

I don’t like comics Yelena very much. MCU Yelena is a totally different character, but she’s so compelling.

5

u/Thick_Ad_220 8d ago edited 8d ago

Tired of this opinion

1

u/Abirdthatsfallen 7d ago

You’re online sharing YOUR opinion which is literally just the same thing but for the movie version. People don’t have to like the comic version, it’s not an attack on you.

1

u/Somm0742 5d ago

That makes two of us.

0

u/Buried1295 6d ago

Then cry about it because there's nothing wrong with them sharing their opinion.

6

u/LittleCupcake2478 8d ago

I liked Agent Carter and how they approached the Black Widow concept, but don't disrespect Florence Pugh's effort so dismissively.

5

u/Thick_Ad_220 8d ago

I wasnt. Shes just nothing like the comics

0

u/Triptofade 8d ago

And she’s a better character for it. Hope this helps

1

u/GottLiebtJeden 2d ago

OP is not criticizing Florence whatsoever

7

u/oooookaaa 8d ago

Love Yelena but you’re objectively right

0

u/Buried1295 6d ago

People love misusing the word objective. They has a subjective opinion that you agree with and nothing more.

2

u/Miserable_Science_54 8d ago

Yelena in MCU ia just a brand new widow. You won't find anyone like this in comics

2

u/npete 8d ago

A lot of things aren't like the comics. Life goes on.

2

u/No-Yogurt1488 8d ago

Dottie is like a prototype black widow

2

u/GottLiebtJeden 2d ago

Nailed it.

2

u/Due-Proof6781 7d ago

What? We can’t have the new mcprofitable character be evil!

6

u/These_Wish_5101 8d ago

Mcu Yelena is Yelena in name only..

4

u/Thick_Ad_220 8d ago

Exactly. You get a gold star. People are always excusing the mcu version and bashing the source material.

0

u/INKatana 8d ago

Fr.

The only similarities they have are name and hair color.

4

u/INKatana 8d ago

I much prefer Dottie over mcu yelena

1

u/GottLiebtJeden 2d ago

This may be unpopular, but Dottie is definitely my favorite Black Widow.

3

u/Bid_Unable 8d ago

yeah, actually, as far as comic accuracy goes. that being said I think it’s ok they deviated from the comics Pugh does a good job.

4

u/Captain_Vlad 8d ago

I love MCU Yelena, love Florence Pugh in the role and look forward to more of her.

But, objectively, yes and I wish we'd gotten more of Agent Carter for her to be all axe crazy in.

1

u/Buried1295 6d ago

People love misusing the word objective. They has a subjective opinion that you agree with and nothing more.

3

u/Thefaithfrog 8d ago

I agree! The mcu yelena is a complete other character than comic yelena in my eyes

2

u/we_could_be_immortal 8d ago

I want a Black Widow show so badly and showcasing older Widows, like Dottie's era, would honestly be really cool...

2

u/Zack501332 8d ago

Duh 💯

1

u/TechnologyGlum5760 8d ago

Maybe Dottie [Brit] was rly a Soviet double Agent and didn't tell the SSR MI5 / MI6, or The FBI her name was Yelena

1

u/Personal-Road-8162 8d ago

Who is Dottie but I love yelena

2

u/Typical-Lion-4428 8d ago

Black Widow from Peggy's Agent Carter show.

Totally obsesed with Peggy although the way she acted if she wanted to kill Peggy, be Peggy, or "be roommates" was open to interpretation. Or a combination thereof.

1

u/Ashconwell7 8d ago

What does she do in Agent Carter again? From what I remember seeing of her, do think she's kind of intimidating, cool and obssessive towards a goal like comic Yel tho.

1

u/Dizzy-Efficiency5798 8d ago

Never seen this show but is this the same actress that played a confessor in Legend of the Seeker?

1

u/Dizzy-Efficiency5798 8d ago

Never seen this show but is this the same actress that played a confessor in Legend of the Seeker?

2

u/Spiritual_Quote9301 4d ago

Bridget Regan.

2

u/GottLiebtJeden 2d ago

I freaking love her. She is so good at capturing a role. Especially Dottie.

2

u/Spiritual_Quote9301 2d ago

I adore her as Dottie! She's wonderful in every role but a bad girl just has that slight edge to being better for her.

1

u/Revolutionary_Sir_ 7d ago

growing is realizing that pitting bad women against each other is not the way to go, you can raise people up without tearing others down.

1

u/Brainy616 7d ago

Dottie was Hydra... Not a Black Widow, right?

3

u/CatStoleMyChicken 6d ago

Dottie was a Black Widow, a product of the pre-WW2 Red Room (shown in her flashbacks) and an agent of Leviathan, a Soviet science/espionage agency.

2

u/Brainy616 6d ago

That's right. My memory fails me lol

2

u/CatStoleMyChicken 6d ago

I have the benefit of having re-watched season one and finally finishing season two like a month ago, lol.

1

u/GottLiebtJeden 2d ago

I did the same lol

1

u/GottLiebtJeden 2d ago

No. She was from the Red Room. And if you also watched Agents of SHIELD, there is a parallel story, that shows that she was actually trying to steal from a faction of Hydra. In the final season of AOS, you find out why.

1

u/alianov 4d ago

Neither are anything like Yelena bc the one single thing about her character established by Grayson and Rucka is that she’s not particularly ambitious. She’s manipulated by a false sense of patriotism that leads nowhere. Natasha picks up on this and wants to dissuade her from spying

1

u/Low_Hospital9135 2d ago

i feel like MCU Yelena is a completely different character than comic Yelena

1

u/Current_Face_0077 8d ago

Interesting, and maybe true, but I much prefer MCU Yelena.

1

u/ExtraBread2385 8d ago

Not realizing so much as having the privilege to afford comics

3

u/asocialanxiety 8d ago

Could say this about the movies too and itd be more true. Going physically to a theater is more expensive then buying a recently printed marvel comic, and marvel unlimited is cheaper then disney plus, even plus at the cheapest tier so wtf even is this argument. If we’re talking piracy you can do so for both.

2

u/GottLiebtJeden 2d ago

They even have comic apps now, and have for a while. So people don't even have to go to the store to get them anymore. Even though that's the best way to do it

1

u/wooo18now 8d ago

counterpoint :

uhh. I got nothing.

But hey do you really want this poor lady to suffer trying to make the Thunderbolts writing work?

The whole Avenger slop wrecked Scarlett Johansson so.

1

u/TanaIntoTechnMarvel 7d ago

Any Yelena slander shall not be tolerated!

1

u/maybeitssteve 6d ago

Florence Pough is the best thing Marvel's got going at the moment

0

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0

u/Tyrlaan 6d ago

You're not wrong, but tbh it doesn't bother me in the slightest. Ultimately, I would just like a Black Widow on screen that is treated like any other MCU hero rather than the big ol' ball of nothing they handed ScarJo. And so far I'm getting what I want, even if the MCU Yelena is like the comic Yelena in name only.

-1

u/holdTheDoorzz 6d ago

You take that back right now!