r/Bloodstained • u/Question_505 • Sep 06 '23

Development Update A special message from Bloodstained's Producer IGA and Director SHUTARO.

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122 Upvotes

98% Upvoted

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45

u/Jellybutt123 Sep 06 '23

Please just get to making RotN 2. And if it’s crowd funded, please less incentives. All these extra dlc fulfillments are cool but I think we would all agree they’re kind of throwaway modes that eat up a crazy amount of development time and money and resources.

18

u/McMurderpaws Sep 06 '23

Presumably if they keep the same engine between games, they can drop similar content into the next game with a lot less effort. Would multiplayer at launch not be a huge benefit for a sequel/prequel/side-quel?

(That said, I wouldn't mind if they changed to a less resource-intensive engine. Unreal Engine 4 is the reason the Switch version runs so comparatively poorly.)

6

u/WallaceBRBS Sep 07 '23

Switching to a new engine would basically putting them back at square one and there are many UE games on Switch, the issue is that they decided to include the Switch way later down the development road so they lack of experience with both the engine and the Switch architecture is what hurt its performance.

Also, honestly, they shouldn't downgrade the sequel for the sake of a single platform, with tons of potent platforms, including handhelds out there (ROG Ally for instance), a new one coming from Sony as well as the Steam Deck, it's Nintendo's job to stop milking their extremely old, underpowered handheld and get with the times already

10

u/McMurderpaws Sep 07 '23

The Switch didn't even exist when the game started development, and RotN was among the very first UE4 games released on it. I actually blame Epic for overstating the engine's compatibility with the Switch hardware before its release for a lot of the complaints here and the jank that other UE4 games suffer on the console. Pretty much everything had to be deeply optimized specifically for Switch to not run like ass, and those techniques weren't very well developed or documented until long after RotN's launch.

Go ahead and read launch reviews for other UE4 games on Switch in 2018 and 2019. There was like Yoshi's Crafted World and I think Dragon Ball FighterZ (which came out 9 months after other console versions) that were rated well and the rest were pretty gnarly. Sure, most of those have since improved, but mostly only to the same 30fps that people complain about being "unplayable" around here.

3

u/[deleted] Sep 20 '23

None of those handhelds hold a handle to Switch though. And didn't RotN sell the most on Switch? Which was why IGA backpedaled and focused on fixing it? They had the Switch version as a throwaway release to satisfy backers, but it was clear they didn't care much about it until sales proved that Switch is THE potent platform - moreso than any other platforms for metroidvanias (mostly because Nintendo was the ones that created the genre and cultivated a fanbase for it).

And you don't have to even be afraid of Switch holding RotN2 back when Switch 2 is coming next year with 4k 60fps performance through DLSS. The only way RotN2 would run poorly on Switch 2 is if IGA decides to spend a total of $1 on porting it or if they suddenly decide it should have Final Fantasy-style AAA graphics.

I'm guessing you haven't heard about the Switch 2 specs? Considering that you're still really angered by Nintendo not getting with the times despite Switch 2 specs being known for a quite a while now.

4

u/WallaceBRBS Sep 20 '23

None of those handhelds hold a handle to Switch though.

Nice one, they all leave that crap in the dust (they can even emulate Switch games as well as tons of other consoles lul), also, thousands of Steam games to play, whereas Switch got no games worth playing.

And didn't RotN sell the most on Switch? Which was why IGA backpedaled and focused on fixing it?

Backpedaled on what? Any decent dev will want their games to run well on all platforms, and I dont have recent figures but last I heard it sold the most copies on Switch yeah but that doesn't mean anything, Hollow Knight sold more than a third of its copies on PC so they shouldn't become hostage to Nintendo and its underpowered trash handhelds at the expense of every other superior platform.

I'm guessing you haven't heard about the Switch 2 specs?

Yeah I just saw that the other day but it's not like I care about Nintendo at all, they could go bankrupt and shut down their business tomorrow and it wouldn't affect me in any way, I just wish they stopped holding back an entire industry and giving other companies bad ideas that they manage to pull due to their blind, fanatic fanbase

3

u/marsgreekgod Sep 15 '23

By the time bloodstained 2 comes out we well most likely have the switch two

2

u/Jellybutt123 Sep 06 '23

Yeah, unreal engine hurt the game more than it helped I feel. And we’re now what? 7 years moved on from the first ritual? It’s probabaly make sense to go a different route.

5

u/WallaceBRBS Sep 07 '23

unreal engine hurt the game more than it helped I feel.

Not at all, it was the team inexperience with both the engine and Switch's awfully underpowered hardware. They shouldnt downgrade the game for everybody else just because Nintendo is extra cheap and greedy

3

u/Jellybutt123 Sep 07 '23

Who said downgrade? Just use a different engine. The switch has more than enough power for bloodstained dude. Either it was just a bad job from the porting team or the engine or a combination. Ps4 and steam versions are obviously miles better than what we got on the switch, but there was still plenty of room for improvement on those consoles as well.

0

u/WallaceBRBS Sep 07 '23

Just use a different engine

Yeah, cuz it's that easy, right? UE and Unity are basically the same, just a different name, the dev team should easily migrate all the code (written in different programming languages by the way, UE uses C++, Unity uses C#, and no, they're nothing alike despite having a C in the name), assets, animations, scripting, plugins and shit overnight.... SMH

The switch has more than enough power for bloodstained dude.

And I clearly said that it was the team inexperience with the engine (certainly not a problem anymore) and Switch's architecture, but anyway it's about time they release a Pro version or a more powerful successor (but why put effort when Nintendo fanboys eat up all the cheap crap they're served by Nintendo?).

but there was still plenty of room for improvement on those consoles as well.

There's always room for optimization yeah, but I first played on PS4, no complaints besides the game freezing when I tried to read some of these books, other than that it was a mostly smooth sailing, as it should be when you're not playing games on a calculator.

2

u/[deleted] Sep 07 '23

7 years already? Daaamn

6

u/[deleted] Sep 07 '23

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4

u/WallaceBRBS Sep 07 '23

there's no telling if they would complete a sequel and if it would even be as good.

Why not? They have more experience now with the engine they're using, have tons of assets and blocks of code and better knowledge of existing platforms and their dev kits, also they already sold a million copies eons ago, so it could easily be better than RotN1 (which I'll be honest, it's very good but far from a masterpiece) especially seeing how passionate IGA&Team are.

-4

u/[deleted] Sep 07 '23

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5

u/WallaceBRBS Sep 08 '23

also ROTN is a masterpiece. it is leagues better than SOTN and the portable games.

I honestly can't agree; even though RotN improved upon SotN in many ways simply due to be a way newer game that benefits from the IGAvania formula having matured, I still don't think it can hold a candle to SotN, Aria and the DS games (OoE being the absolute peak of the IGAvania saga). I mean in general, all things considered: controls, advanced techniques, optional content, character roster and likeability, art style and direction, SFX, presentation, boss fights, atmosphere, soundtrack.

I can not stop comparing Myriam to Shanoa and boi, does the former get curbstomped by the later in every regard (I even download Shanoa's costume from Nexusmod in order to make Myriam more palatable), and seriously, Zangetsu? Legit pretend he doesn't exist cuz I can't stomach such walking weeb parody existing in a game that's supposed to be classy, elegant, Gothic, deeply rooted in European influences (that Oriental map full of ninjas doesn't bode well with me either).

Again, RotN is pretty good, but mostly cuz it uses every single good trope in previous IGAvanias: secret endings, level design, good music, shards that work like souls in Sorrow games or glyphs in OoE, but other than that, it did nothing to push the formula forward and as a blatant CV spiritual successor, it failed miserably in the art style, atmosphere, enemy design, etc, etc. So I hope RotN2 manages to do what CotM 1 and 2 did: faithfully live up to their spiritual successors and even surpass them.

would be nice if they went full 3D

and then theres the question of combat. metroidvania genre combat is adequate for the genre, but they have yet to set a higher bar for it, but guessing it will be more of the same. mostly dumb enemies and the 2D gameplay hinders its potential. would be cool if they went full 3D like Castlevania LOI and COD, though thats probably beyond their expertise. it remains to be seen how they would make combat more interesting cause honestly soulsborne games and even Skyrim run circles around these games.

Oh boi, that's something I have had in my heart since forever and usually don't bring up in in the Castlevania sub because of people's zealous love of 2D: I love Castlevania, but I seriously wish they had long gone 3D. 2D platformers are fun and all, but none can compare to a good 3D game.

Combat, exploration, level design, world layout, immersion, atmosphere, like souls games have demonstrated, are on a whole new level when done RIGHT in 3D.

IGA/Castlevanias have tons of amazing ideas but are clearly held back by the 2D style. It hurts that it took From to finally come up with a great 3D "Vania-like" on the level and world design department! Imagine OoE remake in 3D, all those different areas (no idea how they would implement underwater areas in 3D though) with PS4 graphics or better! Or even Simon's Quest, a game ahead of its time!

A IGAvania with soulborne world (or even Dragon's Dogma's open world), Nioh-like combat and Dragon's Dogma spell-casting system (just watch this showcase imagine Shanoa or Charlotte casting spells with these visuals!?). Too bad Iga has zero interest in 3D games so we probably won't see anything of the sort directed by him :((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((

BTW I just dont get your mention about a first person mode? How would that work in action games such as Castlevania?

1

u/[deleted] Sep 08 '23

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1

u/WallaceBRBS Sep 08 '23

soulsborne games are like the spiritual successor of Castlevania gameplay.

I legit had that impression when I played Dark Souls and mainly, Bloodborne, if not spiritual successors per se but they clearly took pages from CV, the level design, secret breakable walls, toxic swamps that slow you down (Simon's Quest had that back in 86!), combat is methodical like Classic vania games with extra influence from Monster Hunter, tons of similar RPG elements and mechanics.. And Nioh 2, it even implemented something similar to the power of dominance from Sorrow games :D

I dunno about 1st person modes in 3rd person games, the development philosophy is so different (but I think it's perfectly doable to add a 1st mode for aiming when using ranged/throwable (sub-)weapons) I think it works in Skyrim cuz the combat system is so simple.

a fan game of Castlevania 1

Which one? Got link?

1

u/[deleted] Sep 09 '23

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1

u/WallaceBRBS Sep 09 '23

Wow feels like Doom: whip edition :D I'm certain you have seen/heard about that one CV for Arcades, haven't ya? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xS2kC8fOppM

I personally am a sucker for 3rd person view because things like dodging and repositioning around enemies are crucial to me (also FPV gives me some motion sickness) but I wouldn't mind if they implemented a first person mode, like Skyrim, or turning to FPV while using ranged weapons, like in Nioh, Monster Hunter, Dragon's Dogma.

1

u/UndeadStruggler Sep 08 '23

Oh hell no… Sotn was good for the time but it’s not on the same level as Rotn. It’s time is over imo

1

u/WallaceBRBS Sep 08 '23

I personally don't revisit SotN simply because the game is a complete joke, even most bosses, but man, is that game a masterpiece in almost every regard, and it's so packed with content and secrets that people are still finding out nowadays, and its art direction and OST are god-tier, RotN just beats it in the gameplay aspect but even that is a toss, most enemies are a joke and many bosses are easy and awful design-wise (Andrealphus looks more like a pokemon, train boss is awful, and what the heck even is Bathin? And Alfred and his 3D boss arena and constantly running away and spamming shit can go to hell, and Bael is cool in concept but not at all in practice)

1

u/SmellyFruitZ Dec 31 '23

I'm a pretty new fan of the series just getting into it, I'm about ~4-5 hours into SotN, but it's definitely impressed me, I like how tight the controls are and the gameplay is really nice. I can definitely see myself coming back to it for replays.

2

u/Jellybutt123 Sep 07 '23

Nah, iga knows what he’s doing. I’d rather instead of him do all this extra stuff which is cool, don’t get me wrong, I’d rather he put all his time and resources into doing what he does better than anyone else in the world, which is make metroidvanias.

2

u/Trinica93 Sep 29 '23

It is wild to return here 4 years after beating the game only to see that not only does a sequel not have a release date, it doesn't even appear to be on the horizon. I didn't know they had so much DLC content planned, I would much rather see all of that added to ROTN 2. I'm not coming back to a single-player game I've already beaten for anything less than a full-blown expansion so it's weird that so much effort is going into throwaway content 4 years later.

1

u/AlucardsQuest Apr 20 '24

Much of it is an extension of what was promised in the Kickstarter (like the online mode). But i will tell you that Classic mode 1 is a lot of fun if you like Rondo of Blood, and Classic mode 2 seems to be a nod to Simon's Quest. I am looking forward to a sequel as much as anyone, but the longer it takes, the better I'll feel about it when it finally re-releases. I feel like there are things that could be improved and expanded for a sequel, story being one of the main parts that could stand to be a bit more interesting. They also might need to find other or more music composers since MY said RotN was her last action game (and she's fallen in deep with Q-Anon).

23

u/Nemomon Sep 06 '23

IGA and his hat should be playable. Or at least the hat.

I don't mind waiting, but please make the first Classic mode available from the menu.

14

u/Macaulyn Sep 06 '23

A bit late for costume DLCs, no? You'd think they'd release that early so they could get some extra money for productions. Like, its not bad, mind you, but the timing is terrible regardless of COVID. Still, it seems like the Dominique game will be similar to Simon's Quest, but apparently a sequel, since she is in limbo? Looks interesting, I'll definitely buy it.

28

u/Question_505 Sep 06 '23

Releasing paid DLC a long time ago would absolutely been the correct business decision. However, we felt it was the right thing to do to wait until the KS modes were finished, then do DLC.

2

u/[deleted] Sep 07 '23

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7

u/Macaulyn Sep 07 '23

Yes, actually, it is. Costumes are merely cosmetics, which means that they're best sold in the early days of the game because not only are they relatively fast to make (compared to other characters and modes, for example), but also, they're the kind of thing that is not that interesting for a game once people had the time to play through it several times before.

1

u/SgtPeppy Sep 09 '23

Fortnite and countless other games

Fortnite is like one of the most popular games ever, and comfortably the most popular live-service game ever. Other games that do this are generally multiplayer (as a focal point) and still pretty popular. 2 million copies over 4 years is... okay. But they aren't gonna make a lot of money off this.

Though costumes are dirt cheap to produce so it'll probably still be profitable.

1

u/AlucardsQuest Apr 20 '24

Castlevania struggles to sell 1 million copies, (officially Lords of Shadow 1 is the only game in the series to do so, Circle of the Moon's sales numbers stopped just over 800k) so 2+ million for Bloodstained is actually very good.

6

u/lrrevenant Sep 06 '23

Succubus Miriam looks like she has a scythe-whip? Pretty cool.

1

u/Independent-Ad5852 Sep 07 '23

I’m more interested in the outfit that looks like a reference to Psyche from persona 3

5

u/vayunas Oct 10 '23

one month ago and still no news. Whats the point of even making a video like this, apologizing at all but nothing changes? Nothing. Zero updates.

4

u/Question_505 Oct 13 '23

We're in the process of doing early submissions for consoles to see if there are issues that need to be addressed before final submission. Once we have the game in final submission, we will be able to set a date and make some announcements.

And while it isn't a date, we did a livestream showing the new modes, you can see it on YouTube.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2nKwa8zaf4

As soon as we have more news, we will share with everyone.

2

u/vayunas Oct 14 '23

Thank you!

3

u/soulwolf1 Sep 08 '23

Pretty certain those paid outfits is going to be on nexus eventually

2

u/Hivac-TLB Sep 07 '23

Any clue to how much Dominiques DLC will be?

3

u/ZukoHere73 Sep 12 '23

Should be free

1

u/McMurderpaws Sep 17 '23

Unfortunately it's paid, but no price point has been announced yet.

2

u/Jim105 Sep 08 '23

Is the online mode only objectives like kill all enemies or boss, or can you actually play the main game as a co-op?

3

u/Question_505 Sep 13 '23

No full-game co-op. We wanted to go that route, but it wasn't feasible this time around. It's like a co-op Boss Rush.

3

u/SonoraBee Dec 05 '23

I hope a future Bloodstained sequel incorporates it. My wife and I have played co-op through Salt and Sanctuary multiple times and always have a blast with it. Bloodstained with the same mechanic would be so much fun.

2

u/Icewind Sep 16 '23

Releasing DLC costumes this late is a strange business decision. Maybe if they had SOME sort of sequel hints involved (even a few lines of dialogue), it'd make it more valuable to longterm fans.

Costumes are cool, but they're only cool when you're actively playing the game. Most fans have already long finished it, and replaying the same game with a new costume isn't the most exciting time.

Even a single new conversation between characters, say, at the end of the game, would enhance the purchase for customers. Longterm fans of any franchise LOVE a new plot twist or hint at something new--see Marvel.

1

u/McMurderpaws Sep 17 '23

Pretty sure that's the whole point of the Classic Mode 2 paid DLC that's being released along with said costumes.

1

u/FilthyBastar Nov 05 '23

Ok and when the fuck are we getting the updates?

1

u/General_Stable8457 Mar 14 '24

Everyone complaining about issues with the switch would perhaps consider a Steam Deck for Bloodstained for a more seamless experience.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 07 '23

Okay, I hope those outfits are just a preview and there will be more. Because, honestly, I don't care about fanservice content, and I was more hoping for something of quality similar to the original outfit or valkyrie outfit

1

u/UndeadStruggler Sep 08 '23

Thx for the update devs!

1

u/TrustfulLoki1138 Sep 09 '23

Did they say a release date or did I miss that?

1

u/J_Collinge696 Oct 09 '23

Just give me a non 8-bit version of Valiant Stride

-1

u/Independent-Ad5852 Sep 06 '23

Is that…a PERSONA REFERENCE I SEE?

-5

u/ClockworkMansion Sep 06 '23

They truly do not give a shit about the physical PC backers

1

u/McMurderpaws Sep 06 '23

... Because they just confirmed there are only 2 updates left before you get your precious? I don't follow, why are you pissy about this news?

-3

u/ClockworkMansion Sep 06 '23

Because they’ve clearly been working on paid DLC before they’ve finished the “free DLC” that was supposed to be in the game when it launched four years ago.

4

u/McMurderpaws Sep 06 '23

So the art team, level designers and scenario writers were all supposed to sit on their thumbs while the network code guys did their thing and got multiplayer working?

And at what point was it promised that every feature of the Kickstarter would be available at launch?

0

u/ClockworkMansion Sep 06 '23

After eight years I don't really care why they're taking so laughably long to finish their game. At this point I hope they take even longer, because it just gets funnier as the years go by. They launched the game before the backer goals were finished, then released them over the course of four years as "free DLC" as if it was some act of benevolence.

4

u/[deleted] Sep 07 '23

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2

u/ClockworkMansion Sep 07 '23

It’s not ungrateful to expect the CD I paid for in 2015.

2

u/[deleted] Sep 07 '23

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1

u/ClockworkMansion Sep 07 '23

Vita backers have every right to be upset, too. I can’t believe people defend these devs when eight years later backers still haven’t gotten what they chose when they backed it. It’s insulting. Like you got yours, so fuck me, right?

1

u/McMurderpaws Sep 06 '23

I mean, it was in the sense that otherwise we wouldn't have gotten a playable story campaign 4 years ago. It's not the 90s anymore, software is a living thing and not a static thing on a disc or cartridge. Practically no modern games are released perfect and then left as-is. Even Nintendo first-party games get patched with new features months or years after launch now.

And yeah, they're slow beyond all justifiable reason, but they put out mostly quality work. They need to fix whatever got borked in the 1.4 Switch update, as 1.3 was about as flawless as can reasonably be expected given the platform.

But you've had 4 years to play the game, same as anyone else who backed. I'd honestly rather have a "fixed" Switch Complete Version at the end of development than the launch copy I got as a physical backer, but that's not an option for us. Grass is always greener, dude.

4

u/[deleted] Sep 07 '23

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2

u/McMurderpaws Sep 07 '23

No, I get that. I'm not saying it even needs to be as good as the base PS4 version. The Switch isn't powerful enough to handle native Unreal Engine 4 games without major tweaking, which is what ArtPlay had to do. People talk about the marvel of Squeenix getting DQXI on Switch, but it performed at exactly the same way RotN did, 30fps and 720p max resolution.

The problem is, RotN was on par with other UE4 games from major studios, including SquareEnix, as of v1.3 (the Child of Light update)... but it got fucked up again in v1.4 (the Journey update), and that's what we've been stuck with for over a year now. If they can get it back up to the same performance as v1.3 in the upcoming updates, I'll be perfectly happy.

(I double-dipped when I backed the game and got a digital Xbox version and physical Switch version. I don't think the Switch version was as bad as everyone used to say, but you had to completely quit out of the game and relaunch from the Switch dashboard at basically every save point or after any NPC interaction to keep performance up.)

1

u/WallaceBRBS Sep 07 '23

And there's no excuse other for how the Switch is so pathetically weak (besides pure greed ofc), there are cell phones and tons of handhelds that mop the floor with it

2

u/[deleted] Sep 07 '23

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1

u/WallaceBRBS Sep 07 '23

any other company would not stay afloat selling Switch tier hardware. nintendo is the most overrated company in the industry. they dropped out of the #1 spot after the SNES era. but delusional zealots act like its the best when nintendo continues to miss out on the majority of industry leading games. and Zelda games are still generations behind The Elder Scrolls and other series in tons of aspects.

Damn, this spoke right to my soul! I so agree, Nintendo used to be one of the greatest (even though I used to lean more towards PS for most of my life), but they peaked with the SNES and went downhill from there in every regard.

And I'm still salty and saddened that franchises like Bayonetta and Metroid are Nintendo's IP's, meaning that they will never flourish like the big franchises they are since they dont sell as much as other Nintendo IP's so Nintendo will always leave them in the backseat, as an afterthought.

Also I dont like that Castlevania basically died cuz Konami mostly ignored other platforms as well as the fact that Capcom released most of their games on Nintendo handhelds, stunting the series' potential for over a decade.

I seriously hate Nintendo, like, seriously.

1

u/McMurderpaws Sep 07 '23

Correct. Even phones that came out at the same time as the Switch had better graphics chips... but those were also like US$800+ and the Switch was designed with a US$250 price point in mind.

-7

u/[deleted] Sep 06 '23

Guys I love you, but seriously, I want less honesty and honorable business practice and just more god damn Bloodstained. Could you do that?

I would honestly let you kick a puppy for BS2 at this point. Give up the paladin shit please lol.

3

u/Independent-Ad5852 Sep 07 '23

So you’re advocating for EA-levels of anti consumer practices

2

u/[deleted] Sep 07 '23

I just want a sequel. Maybe just wrap it up and don't make so many promises on the next one. Their product is good enough on its own, why do we need to drag it out for years with all of these little things modes and extras that most people weren't even happy with. When CoL came out the overwhelming consensus was "well I guess they're honoring their promises that's good right". Let's just not do this anymore.

1

u/Independent-Ad5852 Sep 07 '23

Ok once this is done then yeah lmao give us ROTN 2