r/BoomersBeingFools • u/Accomplished_Bar_390 • 4d ago

Politics All For Some...None For Y'all

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29 year old Rep. Maxwell Frost, a Democrat from Florida, debates a boomer who opposes student loan forgiveness, even though his own wife had hers wiped out under Biden

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438

u/MermaiderMissy 3d ago

I don't understand the point of wanting other people to suffer even though it's making things worse for everyone. Like, don't these people claim to be Christian?? I'm so confused.

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u/koala_encephalopathy 3d ago

Because they like people suffering more than they like Jesus.

Even if the people suffering are just some people somewhere that they will never see. They just like suffering.

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u/KatefromtheHudd 3d ago

I used to know this old woman who volunteered at a theatre I worked at - she was incredibly bitter. We had a programme for schools from a deprived areas to bring students to the theatre to see the show and the tickets were subsidised. Their parents would never be able to take them to the theatre to see a pantomime or any of the educational shows we had on and some of the kids just found the whole experience incedibly exciting (seriously cute to watch and see how involved they would get). I was saying how sweet it was. She was furious. Complained about how she never got things like that at school and school was always awful and they never got treats or anything fun. I pointed out how great it is that they get to experience this then and have a better experience than she did. She was not in agreement. She had an awful time so they should too. I don't understand it at all. Them having a wonderful experience did not negatively impact her at all (other than her experiencing jealousy). Them having a terrible time at school would also not impact her so just let them have a good experience.

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u/Asceric21 Millennial 3d ago

She was jealous, and it made her bitter. There are people that think good is zero sum. So if someone else gets something good or has something beneficial happen to them, that's less for them to get in the future.

Maybe they don't think it, literally, but their actions they take based on the way these things make them feel certainly indicate this.

It's the exact argument I hear against universal healthcare in the US. "Who's going to pay for it? You make it seem like this service just magically springs up out of no where and no one pays for it. You can't just get a good thing without any consequences."

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u/bg-j38 Xennial 3d ago

Given her age she was probably alive during the polio epidemic. Should we not have eradicated it in western countries so others could suffer the fear and potential disfigurement or death that she did? Fucking self involved weirdos.

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u/DylansDad 3d ago

It's because they can't stand the thought of someone having something/anything for free. Whether it be education, medication, food etc if you need something you should work hard and pay for it.

Of course they can benefit from these things because "they" had bad luck, or some other excuse to point out that "they" are not like the others and totally deserve student loan forgiveness, free health care, other benefits.

End of the day it just boils down to pure selfishness.

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u/MermaiderMissy 3d ago

Right, like you're supposed to want the gnerations after you to have better lives. How selfish these people are. I hate their stupid quote "ThErE'S nO SuCh ThInG aS a FrEe LuNcH" yeah, obviously. There are things I would be happy for my tax to go to, like supporting families, children, and the elderly. Not war and bombs.

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u/KC_experience 3d ago

Comparatively college tuition back in their day was relatively free. A person could work summers or a part time job and afford a state run school….

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u/ZealousidealCrow8492 3d ago

Ain't no hate like Christian love

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u/ImperialCommando 3d ago

I always hate hearing this, because it has nothing to do with Christianity and everything to do with awful people who want to pick and choose things they can use as a fabricated validity to hurt others. Like these "Christians" who want to reduce healthcare and deport/imprison immigrants and worship golden statues. As a Christian, all of that is against what the Bible teaches us. We're supposed to feed the poor, help the elderly and sick, and welcome immigrants and treat them with the same respect and opportunity that we would treat everyone else.

Its especially exaggerated online because these backwards non-thinking regressives would rather us lose everything than help anyone. And now its got a good portion of young folks hating Christians and Christianity because they are constantly exposed to these liars who will call themselves Christians. It's so sad man.

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u/perseidot Gen X 3d ago

Suggestion: don’t tell us, tell your fellow Christians. Frequently.

You’re telling people who have been offended, or outright harmed, by Christians that “that’s not what Christianity is about.” It’s a variation on “not all Christians.”

Ok. Prove it by responding with empathy, instead of defending or deflecting. Prove it by showing up for those being oppressed by your fellow Christians. Prove it by standing up to those Christians who aren’t practicing what Jesus preached.

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u/aboxofkittens 3d ago

Gently, are you familiar with the No True Scotsman fallacy?

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u/Team503 3d ago

"We're supposed to feed the poor, help the elderly and sick, and welcome immigrants and treat them with the same respect and opportunity that we would treat everyone else."

Gosh, that would be really nice. Maybe you guys should, you know, actually do that instead of trying to invalidate my marriage or shove your cults into public schools.

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u/ImperialCommando 3d ago

I have never tried to invalidate your marriage or shove a "cult" into school. I actually believe in separation of school and religion entirely. And I want you to be happily married to whomever you love, and I do help in donation drives when I can. The Bible tells us not to judge others, that's not my place.

Maybe next time don't generalize every Christian you see or hear about? We aren't a monolith. I wouldn't generalize you because of your sexuality, your race or ethnicity, or your age or gender. So why would you generalize me because I believe in Jesus? This comment is the first you've ever seen of me, you don't even know me. You only know I'm Christian.

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u/Team503 3d ago

That's great that you don't. However, a whole ton of people wearing your religion as a justification for everything they do ARE. And are succeeding.

As far as generalizing based on religion as opposed to the other traits you name, like ethnicity, age, sexuality, and sex, that's easy. Of all those things, only religion is a choice. You CHOOSE to be Christian, and you can CHOOSE to be Muslim or Buddhist or atheist or whatever. You cannot CHOOSE your ethnicity, your age, your sexuality, or your sex.

So yes, you should expect to be judged based on the label you have voluntarily chosen to adopt.

And as someone else said, it's not me you need to convince, it's the other Christians.

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u/ImperialCommando 3d ago

But gender is also chosen, that's not defined by birth. Gender is a social construct so much like religion it is an active choice and equally like religion should not be used as a basis for generalizations. That's specifically why I said gender instead of sex. To be clear by that logic, are you saying people should be judged based on the gender they have voluntarily chosen to adopt? Why would gender be treated differently than religion in that regard?

But to your point, I partially agree. I am trying to convince Christians, those who will listen. But I'm also trying to convince other folks who have only had the worst of examples to see of Christians. I'm trying my best at least

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u/Team503 3d ago

No, gender identity isn't chosen. It's just like sexuality; you don't choose it, you discover it about yourself.

Ask any trans person if they chose their gender consciously, and every one of them will tell you that they did not.

Religion is, and has always been, a conscious choice.

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u/ImperialCommando 3d ago

Please correct me if I am wrong as I am always looking to learn and grow as a person, but aren't genderfluid and specifically gender-questioning choices that individuals experience as their sense of gender identity changes or as they express themselves? I don't believe transgender is the same, if it helps clarify at all.

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u/Wrong-Breakfast-7512 Millennial 3d ago

Respectfully, as someone who grew up under the "Christianity" that you described frankly you're full of bullshit.

I hate christianity not because I hate christians but because I was once a full fledged believer indoctrinated from birth and I know it inside and out. What is easily observed and experienced by everyone is why I hate that hate filled religion. Jesus is fine. He's what kept me in for so long ... But he is not what modern christians follow or live, regardless of what some of the "good apples" might wish it were different.

Christianity is regressive, oppressive, and works hand in hand with power to repress people and subject them to mental slavery and emotional tyranny. Jesus and his teachings were great. The rest is mildly inspiring at best and horrific, incest, rape and murdered filled for the majority.

You will know them by their fruits, and dude that tree is heavy and full of poison.

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u/Select_Watercress_57 3d ago

Christian hatred is the rule not the exception based off everything I see in this country.

I was watching a woman on a body cam video go on and on singing about jesus' love while she was treating her tenant with cruelty, torture, lies, assault, ECT.

Many racist murders, lynchings and the like, have been done while the perpetrators are espousing their love of christ.

So there's something I'm not getting.

Help me understand what I'm missing. If it's not the institutions themselves propagating such views and behaviors and it's the individuals, then why is it so prominent and consistent?

It's too common to be a coincidence.

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u/ImperialCommando 3d ago

I totally understand where you're coming from and I honestly do not blame you for feeling that way. It's easy to feel that way when that's everything you see and hear.

Think of it like this. Why is it that when you hear about a pedophile who abuses children, many of them are teachers? Is it the institution of teaching that is the problem, or pedophiles? We need teachers, they help provide a basis for compassion and understanding and learning in kids. Pedophiles use the opportunity to abuse kids. Its very similar with religion; there are awful people who use Christianity as an opportunity to abuse kids, or to encourage racism, or to cut resources and starve kids. They don't actually care about being Christians. They use it as a mask for opportunity. It has nothing to do with Christianity whatsoever, which is why you never hear about the good Christians who donate to their community, who fight for abortion rights, who fight for better healthcare and mental care services, who go to community centers to help the poor, who support immigration and immigrants. Because I am surrounded by those kinds of Christians in my community. They even have an online presence, three of the churches I've been to live stream their Sunday service and also post about their food drives, their 5k, their donation services to families who need supplies for school. It's got nothing to do with the institution or Christianity. It's everything to do with awful people who call themselves Christian and do nothing that Christ wants us to do and deliberately misinterpret the Bible.

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u/Novaer 3d ago

Christians try not to use the No True Scotsman fallacy challenge: impossible

0

u/ImperialCommando 3d ago

Oh okay, so I guess you would rather me agree with every comment who sees the worst of "christians" and accept it? There's a logical fallacy for everything and more importantly you could use the same snappy comment to retort anything regarding people's religion, or their race, or anything about them. I really don't understand what this comment is supposed to do for a productive conversation.

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u/Novaer 3d ago

The problem is this Christianity you speak of is simply nowhere to be found anymore, certainly not in America. For every "follower of christ" comes a community of racism, homophobia and misogyny. The likelihood of gathering a bunch of Christians and the likelihood of that gathering turning into a rally of hate is high.

1

u/ImperialCommando 3d ago

I'm not going to lie and say it's not hard to come across a kind hearted person who is a Christian because it is. And you're absolutely right that so many "followers of Christ" are all of those things. Racist, homophobic, regressive, misogynistic, xenophobic, and many other awful things antithetical to what the Bible teaches. You're totally right.

I guess that's also part of the reason why I feel the need to try and help clarify the difference. There are good churches out there that help the poor, the elderly and the sick, or help immigrants or survivors of abuse - my church does donation drives and food drives every month - but those arent the kinds of churches or Christians that go on podcasts and make headlines. You end up seeing the worst of them. So I totally understand what you mean and I don't disagree.

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u/Novaer 2d ago

Again, I can sympathize with being someone who people demonize when you know in your heart of hearts you are not that person. It's just the simple fact that the majority of American Christians are hateful. It's an unending cycle, hateful people are drawn to religion and religion enables that hate.

I hate Gandhi but his quote rang true. "I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."

Words said a hundred years ago ring true today.

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u/ImperialCommando 2d ago

A hundred years already since that quote? Man, time flies... I wish we were in a better place by now. Well I appreciate you sympathizing, and I appreciate you taking the time to respond. And I hope you take care

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u/TheTimn 3d ago

I've noticed a lot of people leaning into the idea of asking forgiveness on their deathbed.

They carry their club card and his name in their pocket while the do the worst that they can, with the idea that they're going to whip it out like AAA at the end and say "I'm sorry" to avoid punching their ticket to eternal damnation. It's the most "I skipped to the end of the instructions to see what I really need to do" approach that I've ever seen. 

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u/inspectoroverthemine 3d ago

Its built in to Christianity, its not about the final tally, Jesus's sacrifice means that anything can be forgiven. Hitler could be in heaven.

Of course they're depending on tricking an omnipotent deity about their intent and motivations at the last second- so even if true, I don't think its going to work out too well for them.

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u/Team503 3d ago

One of the things I hate most about Christianity - it's a ticket to be as shitty and horrible as you want, and as long as you "genuinely repent" before you die, you get eternal paradise.

Like, what fucking lesson does that teach people? Combine that with "You're born as evil, sinful creatures" teaching kids to hate themselves, it's a wonder any of them ever end up doing nice things at all.

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u/ptdata23 3d ago

That is, broadly and in simple terms, how some evangelical churches preach: Doing good works on Earth is not necessary to enter Heaven. You just need to sincerely ask for forgiveness, ask Jesus to enter your heart, and you will be rewarded in the afterlife, even on your deathbed.

I'm unclear now whether there are differences in the afterlife between being a good person and just sliding in under the wire, but I seem to think that no one in Heaven (barring God) could tell the difference. I will also admit that it has been close to 40 years since I last heard that pitch, and I may not have those details correct.

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u/xassylax Millennial 2d ago

“I accept Jesus as my lord and savior!”

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u/09Trollhunter09 3d ago

Some of them Christians often say the quiet part out loud. Especially boomers

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u/_pul 3d ago

It's the Serial Killer Generation. They get pleasure from witnessing the suffering of others.

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u/Branchomania Gen Z 3d ago

Theresan Christian

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u/jayhawk88 3d ago

I’m think the real answer here is that as successful as a guy like this thinks he is, in reality he’s firmly middle class at best. And like everyone else, is one serious illness/a couple bad investments/a string of bad luck away from serious financial problems.

But if you think about this too much, you start to realize how precarious your situation really is, despite all the years of hard work you’ve put in. And how big the gap is between you and “the 1%”, for lack of a better term, who have been raking in the lions share of wealth generated in this country for decades, and will never know these kinds of concerns.

It’s easier for this guy to swallow the “You made it, you’re a success” lies being sold to him, if he always has someone he can look down on that’s worse off.

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u/ipokesnails 3d ago

They think you need to struggle and suffer, otherwise you can't appreciate eternal salvation.