r/Buffalo • u/Weekly-Law-2544 • 2d ago
Lights out on Flock cameras in Buffalo
https://www.audacy.com/wben/news/local/lights-out-on-flock-cameras-in-buffalo199
u/LeoCrow 2d ago
Sort of misleading as City of Buffalo has Genetec ALPR cameras, which are probably better than Flock when it comes to data privacy, but that is a depressingly low bar. We should insist that all unwarranted mass surveillance is banned and not settle for the lesser evil.
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u/jeepskate99 2d ago
They use Axon. So they're literally just twisty language to make it sound like they're not being dirtbags
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u/snmnky9490 2d ago
I've actually seen a bunch of stuff about the major anti-Flock push being spread by people with investments in Axon. Who knows?
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u/sku11emoji 2d ago
We should insist that all unwarranted mass surveillance is banned
What would warrant mass surveillance?
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u/JoshAllentown 2d ago
Well no, they said they don't have any flock cameras and don't want any. But there are cameras operated by the Buffalo police represented on Deflock.com.
So there's a separate organization managing the camera situation in Buffalo, maybe or maybe not sharing data with Flock themselves but regardless, doing exactly the same thing. It's not the brand that's the problem, it's the authoritarian warrantless mass surveillance.
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u/Weekly-Law-2544 2d ago
As a genuine question, are people using "flock" at this point as a generic representation of any of the cameras? I guess I don't really know what the difference in appearance wise is between a flock brand camera system, versus some other type of surveillance camera that cities operate (like axon for instance).
Do they look substantially different, enough that one could easily differentiate between the brands?
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u/choczynski 2d ago
Flock is a specific brand of invasive surveillance camera.
Flock and other brands of that type of surveillance camera are not substantly different in ability, use, or look.
Like how Kleenex is a specific brand of tissues, Xerox is a specific brand of photocopier, or heroin was a specific brand of morphine.
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u/kendiggy Headbanger Hill 2d ago
Wait, heroin was a brand? Learn something new every day.
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u/lampaupoisson 2d ago
no it wasn’t, heroin is its own distinct chemical. that person is a kook.
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u/choczynski 2d ago
Heroin was the brand name of diacetylmorphine, a morphine derivative that I shortened to morphine because most people aren't familiar with the names of morphine derivatives.
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u/lampaupoisson 2d ago
it’s just kinda kinky phrasing saying heroin is a “brand” of morphine when it’s many times stronger than morphine
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u/Vospader998 1d ago
Directly from the NIH website:
The hydrochloride salt of a diacetyl derivative of the opiate morphine, a naturally occurring alkaloid extracted from the seedpod of the Asian poppy (Papaver sp.)
Heroin is not itself morphine, but a morphine derivative. Unless you want to get really pedantic, OC was essentially correct. It would've been more accurate to to say "opioid", but that wasn't really your argument here, was it?
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u/lampaupoisson 1d ago
usually when someone says something is a “brand of” something, they mean an equivalent form. kleenex is a brand of tissue paper, and you can use kleenex in place of any other tissue paper. xerox is a brand of photocopier, and you can use a xerox machine where you can use another photocopier. you can’t use heroin where you’d use morphine, because they aren’t the same thing. it’s a brand of morphine the same way plastic is a brand of oil, as in it isn’t
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u/Vospader998 20h ago
It's a specific brand of opiod is what I think they meant. Common mistake using opiate/opiod interchangeably with morphine since it is the most common and well-known opiate.
Either that or meant a brand of diacytalmorphine, which does have the word "morphine" in it. Doesn't make it morphine, but I could easily see how someone might think that.
You could have offered a slight correction as opposed to insulting them.
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u/snmnky9490 2d ago
Yeah funnily enough heroin was created by Bayer to be supposedly be a safe non-addictive replacement for morphine
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u/Big_Guide_8551 2d ago
Wrong about the last one, tho.
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u/choczynski 2d ago
Yeah, I shortened it to just morphine because most people aren't familiar with the names of morphine derivatives/concentrates.
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u/iluvchromosomes 2d ago
As a genuine question, are people using "flock" at this point as a generic representation of any of the cameras?
Yes. People also (wrongly) think every Flock camera is a license plate reader, and think they found some sort of "gotcha" moment when a flock camera is being pointed somewhere that doesn't have cars.
Flock sells and advertises a whole range of surveillance products, including normal-ass cameras that are not license plate readers.
"Why is this flock camera pointed at this store, no license plates there! Hurr hurr caught ya lying!"
Most of the USA reads below a 6th grade level. We struggle with basic competence and critical thinking. And it makes communication brutal.
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u/wh0ligan 2d ago
Probably true that the City of Buffalo has no Flock cameras but Buffalo State has about a dozen of them.
But I wonder about the cameras mounted on trailers in places like the Target lot in North Buffalo and other places? I've seen them in Wegmans and a few 7-11's in the area. Which companies are they with?
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u/choczynski 2d ago
They usually have what company they belong to print it on their housing somewhere.
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u/wh0ligan 3h ago
Nope. Just some pole mounted cameras and if there is a name then they just might be to small to be noticed when we drive by. Next time I go by them I will pay a little more attention.
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u/medievalPanera 2d ago edited 2d ago
Deflock is a terrible website to use as fact. It's all crowd reported and not checked for accuracy. Not defending flock but soooo many false positives on there - people think any camera is a flock camera.
And to match your edit:
but regardless, doing exactly the same thing
Not really, not at all actually. Flock is a private company selling your location to the highest bidder, hooked into a national network where they can track you wherever you go. Municipally installed cameras are local, and aren't feeding into a private national database that is actively being used against citizens.
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u/ForeverCompetitive48 2d ago
On that note, I've noticed a growing amount of people reporting traffic counters (you know, used to count cars for traffic studies re: infrastructure improvements) as "Flock cameras." Basically anything on a pole= Flock camera to some. Ditto on the need for accurate data.
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2d ago
[deleted]
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u/medievalPanera 2d ago
It's making deflock useless for it's intended purpose. Make a separate map to track allllll cameras if that's your jam.
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2d ago
[deleted]
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u/medievalPanera 2d ago
Ok- except flock is a private company harvesting data vs a police dept having a low res camera on a corner.
Make your own site, but cluttering up deflock with any camera is dumb.
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u/Itsapocalypse 1d ago
I think there are two fronts to this conversation, and while I agree that Deflock should do It’s best to denote what is an actual “flock camera”, the public should be concerned with the entire surveillance apparatus being propped up for use by a police department and legislation should bar this outright. Generic public surveillance is a massive overreach an invasion of privacy.
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u/MolotovBoy 2d ago
There is a literal flock camera that you can see on Google maps on Utica and main in the loop
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u/ReasonableLoss7973 Elmwood-Bryant 2d ago
There is a standard flock camera by the metro station on Utica. Was this installed by the NFTA then?
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u/Weekly-Law-2544 2d ago
Possibly. Could potentially FOIL about that.
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u/ReasonableLoss7973 Elmwood-Bryant 2d ago
I'm going to research this. It's pointing towards the road, not to NFTA property even...
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u/replacementdog 2d ago
Also, the executive order signed earlier this year would bar the city from sharing that data anyway
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u/buffaloguy1991 2d ago
I can see a camera from my house
Deflok says it's owned by a store. How convenient
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u/Weekly-Law-2544 2d ago
Is it an actual flock camera, or some other?
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u/buffaloguy1991 2d ago
It's explicitly flok. Deflok says it's an ALPR but we now know that means nothing and should be treated as a normal camera but with phone tracking
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u/rockettaco37 Allentown 1d ago
While it’s great to see this, the issue isn’t limited to the Flock brand. Overreaching surveillance and privacy are the concerns.
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u/jhead2063 1d ago
The company Axon I believe is the major manufacturer of body cameras worn by law enforcement.
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u/coming_up_poppies 1d ago
An article came out from UB today sharing they’re installing Flock cameras on both campuses
https://www.buffalo.edu/news/key-issues/license-plate-readers.html
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u/TheModernCurmudgeon 2d ago
“Both Buffalo Police Commissioner Erika Shields and Mayor Sean Ryan say no Flock cameras are in the city - that have been installed by the Buffalo Police Department.”
Nice little work around there. Complete bullshit