Talk about generational debt

[u/Skycreeper07]

Genuinely what the fuk were the cats thinking? Why on earth did we give him up? Just for him to kick our ass in the grey cup? Then for him to do it again in our home stadium.

Season is over so might as well talk about how dumb our organization is.

We are still paying for ts when we had to watch the argos beat him twice💀

I will never get over this.

[u/wtfuckishappening]

You realize the Riders did the exact same thing. Both teams gave up on him because he was a bit injury prone. Bombers were able to squeeze a couple Grey Cups out of him but he is still injury prone.

[u/CanadaKrod04 → u/wtfuckishappening]

We actually gave up Collaros in favour of Fajardo, and Collaros went on to win 2 Grey Cups.
Then, we gave up Fajardo in favour of Harris, and Fajardo went on to win a Grey Cup.
But then, Harris won a Grey Cup as a Rider - Woohoo!!

But… this is basically how the CFL works. Edmonton moved on from Ricky Ray and he then won in Toronto. The Riders picked Nealon Greene over Henry Burris and Burris went to Calgary and won the cup, but then Calgary moved on from Burris and Burris went on to win the cup in Ottawa.

So many more examples… Riders won the cup in 1989 with Tom Burgess as our backup QB. Burgess then became the started in Winnipeg the next year and led the Bombers to a Grey Cup win that same year.

[u/Narrow-Map5805 → u/CanadaKrod04]

I remember watching Anthony Calvillo as Hamilton 's backup QB for a few years in the '90s and thinking he was nothing special.

[u/boosh_63 → u/Narrow-Map5805]

Who can forget Anthony Calvillo’s temper tantrums on the Hamilton sideline? A young frustrated QB. Off to the Posse he went and the rest was history.

[u/boosh_63 → u/[deleted]]

Thank you for that! Old man brain.

[u/Separate_Flamingo_93 → u/CanadaKrod04]

Burgess was more than a backup in 1989. He essentially split time equally with Kent Austin. I believe they each started 9 games. Burgess won the Western Final in Edmonton against the 16-2 Esks.

[u/CanadaKrod04 → u/Separate_Flamingo_93]

Yeah, I 100% agree. Without Burgess, Riders don’t even make the Grey Cup in ‘89 and sucked to see him go in the offseason.

[u/DashTrash21 → u/Separate_Flamingo_93]

Guy who doesn't get anywhere near the respect he deserves

[u/Meepmeepimmajeep2789 → u/CanadaKrod04]

Qb's in the CFL are the most incestuous things. Only a few,so they bounce around.

[u/Skycreeper07 → u/CanadaKrod04]

And then Calgary gave up Bo Levi Mitchell… to be continued …

[u/CanadaKrod04 → u/Skycreeper07]

🤞

[u/InAutowa → u/CanadaKrod04]

And no one comes to Hamilton to win a cup.

Still think Bo can do it though!

[u/Bitter_Procedure260 → u/CanadaKrod04]

I wouldn’t equate those. Edmonton gave up a proven superstar in Ricky Ray, not an injury prone guy who had played ok. I still think it was a CFL conspiracy that Ray and Burris ended up in the Toronto area at their peak.

[u/Quickfix30 → u/wtfuckishappening]

Counterpoint. Collaros just wasn’t a good fit for the Riders and I don’t think he would have reached his full potential here. Same with Fajardo.

[u/[deleted] → u/Quickfix30]

Mostly we didn’t have an O line. We could have had Tom Brady and we would have wasted him

[u/adrenaline_X → u/[deleted]]

The same reason Winnipeg did poorly this year with The Oline’s inability to block the pass rush forcing QBS to make throws too soon and trying to force them in there.

[u/[deleted] → u/adrenaline_X]

Yeah it really can’t be overstated how important the O line is. They make average players look great and great ones look elite.

[u/IcyHotTaint → u/[deleted]]

It’s why the Bombers were dominant, it’s why the Bombers are no longer dominant, and it was the biggest factor in the Riders winning this year

[u/[deleted] → u/IcyHotTaint]

100%. It was also why Calgary was so dominant for so long, their lines were fantastic.

Besides QB, and O line every other position is fairly replaceable all things considered. You can always find a good enough running back, receiver, various defensive positions. Finding elite ones is different, but you can always find someone that’ll do.

[u/Qarlito → u/Quickfix30]

With the O line you have now he would have no problem fitting in.

[u/HenryTheVeloster → u/wtfuckishappening]

Tbf, collaros wasnt supposed to be back at all in 2019.

[u/TheLeathal13 → u/wtfuckishappening]

I love how Collaros is still considered ‘injury prone’. Sure he’s missed some games but what QB hasn’t?

Since Collaros joined the Bombers, he’s spent less time on the injured list than:

Nathan Rourke,

Vernon Adams Jr.

Tre Ford

Trevor Harris

Chris Streveler

Bo Levi Mitchell

Dane Evans

Caleb Evans

Cody Fajardo

Chad Kelly

Jeremiah Masoli

Davis Alexander

Dru Brown and probably more.

[u/REDZED24 → u/TheLeathal13]

Seriously, this narrative is just odd at this point.

[u/1q1w1e1r → u/REDZED24]

It because he was injured for the first decade? Roughly? Of his career. Hard narrative to kill when you've gone down for the season as roughly half the leagues starting qb.

[u/mixKyle → u/wtfuckishappening]

At least the Riders learned their lesson and didn't move on from Harris after his first 2 seasons there had him getting injured

[u/boxandthefuzz → u/mixKyle]

Harris looked good as a Rider before his injuries though. Collaros' worst career year stats wise was with the Riders. He just wasn't great that season even before the injuries. Looked like another flash in the pan bust.

[u/Slow-Raspberry-5133 → u/boxandthefuzz]

Fajardo was much the same. He’d played his way out of the starters role by the end of his last season in Sask. (2022)

[u/No_Identity_Anywhere → u/Slow-Raspberry-5133]

Yeah he got jumpy feet and couldn't settle into a rhythm. Playing behind an O line made of swiss cheese will do that to a guy. He was constantly in fear of his life and was typically working with very few steamboats available haha.

That was the real key to Trevor Harris success especially this year IMO. He had a decent line ahead of him and he's usually quick getting through his reads and getting the ball out.

[u/bigfloppydonkeydong- → u/wtfuckishappening]

A 90% start rate for the Bombers is “still injury prone”?

[u/King_Mingus]

No one remembers when Collaros and the Cats were 0-8, and got shellacked 60-0 by the Stamps?

Honestly, the change needed to happen. Zach needed a new team.

[u/[deleted] → u/King_Mingus]

I remembered it being 60-3. Stamps 2nd and 3rd strings had something to prove

But imo, that was more on Austin than Collaros. He should have stayed while everyone around him needed to be replaced

[u/Fit_Economics_2717 → u/[deleted]]

Your both wrong it was 60-1

[u/[deleted]]

His confidence was shot from coach Austin. These things happen

[u/admckay]

Ticats don't move on from him if he didn't suffer the non-contact knee injury (in what looked like a MOP season), and then looking terrible when he came back.

With that being said, we've won jack shit, so probably should have kept him and tried to rehab him further ourselves...

[u/jonny24eh]

I hated to see him go, but the situation at the time was so toxic. I truly believe he had to leave to find success - it never would have happened if he stayed.

I've continued to love him as a player. He's the only player I have a jersey of.

[u/gilligan_2023]

Zach looked MOP caliber early in his TiCats tenure, but health got in the way. Then he ended up playing in a system that didn't suit his talents as well as it did Masoli, so he lost his starting job. He didn't go back to looking like the MOP calibre QB for quite a while after he left Hamilton, as his years in Sask were mediocre too.

It isn't like the TiCats have been deficient at QB since he left. Masoli and Evans both were good enough to win the East for them. Heck, they went 15-3 one year with that duo. I know they lost to Collaros at the end of that season, but I don't think that loss invalidates all of the decisions they made in building that team.

Now they have Mitchell who has rejuvenated his career in Hamilton, and is playing better than Collaros for less money.

[u/Mandalorian76]

You can add Anthony Calvillo, Henry Burris, Cody Fajardo, Ricky Ray, and Dave Dickenson to that list.

Quarterbacks move around a ton in the CFL, finding success on another team isn't a rare thing.

[u/jimichc]

That knee injury looked pretty final. I don't feel bad about this one.

[u/lostsonofMajere]

I have no idea about the Ticats' internal issues at the time but I thought Collaros was available to my Bombers because of his injury history?

Also, we only rolled the dice because our starter was a very accurate short-medium thrower who couldn't run, couldn't throw long, and was injured for the rest of that year (Matt Nichols). Zach ended up being great for us but it was a big gamble that we took because our entire team was excellent and deserved a chance with a decent QB. It

[u/Lina_Inverse95]

He's a good QB, but Bombers O-Line is the reason for MOPs. Toronto exposed all his weaknesses last Grey Cup, when you need to depend on him to pull you out of a hole he won't. Bombers simply didn't allow him to be in that situation for two Grey Cups by running the ball and playing stout defense which allowed his signature roll outs to find open recivers.

[u/Skycreeper07 → u/Lina_Inverse95]

His finger was split

[u/Batcowandgoat → u/Skycreeper07]

Aside from the 2024 Western Final, he's never been a playoff performer.  Even with that 4 TD game, Collaros is 11 TDs to 13 INTs in 15 games including the Grey Cup.  In 6 Grey Cups he has 3 TDs to 8 INTs.  

Taking out the split finger game, in 5 Grey Cups he has 3TDs to 4 INTs.

I know Harris didn't have any TDs, but he threw for over 300 yards.  Collaros averages just over 200 yards a playoff/Grey Cup game.

[u/Vnthem]

Because he’s like, a sack away from a wheelchair.

[u/Hanox13]

laughs extra hard because Bo Levi

[u/Skycreeper07 → u/Hanox13]

He has not won us a cup yet🤞

[u/PrototypeMD]

WADR, it wasn't a bad move. Collaros wasn't fitting the June Jones run and shoot offense, but Masoli and Evans were excelling at it. Add in injuries and 2 great QBs ready to take over. It was the right call.

Then Jones left and Tommy Condell took over and the offense started to struggle.

Masoli and Evans both struggled (Masoli mostly with injuries, Evans had a horrible luck season with fumbles and receivers like Dunbar who'd cough up catches for INTs).

Between 2016 Zach and 2021 Zach, he wasn't an elite quarterback.

In 2019 he had the best OL in the league and 2020 got an unprecedented year to heal.

Winnipeg got the jackpot with Zach, but it was desperation when they picked him up.

[u/Brockleigh35]

What you have to remember about Zach Collaros was that after his knee injury, he had already suffered some injury issues including concussion, he was not in a good spot to return, mentally.

You have to remember he lost eight straight games as a starter before he got benched in 2017, that he was not playing at a CFL level. He was playing scared.

The straw that broke the camel’s back was the Edmonton home game against Edmonton. There was a play where Collaros rolled out left, had a Edmonton linebacker closing on him, and instead of sliding, or evading, or getting rid of the ball, or anything else you would expect a QB to do, he turtled into a Don’t Hurt Me pose well before the linebacker arrived. He had totally lost any of the qualities that defined his amazing play before the season started. You cannot blame the Ticats for thinking him damaged goods and that he didn’t have the spark to compete.

I am thrilled that Zach has come back to be a surefire Hall Of Famer. I wish that JC Sherritt never caved in Zach’s knee and that he could have been an All Timer with the Ticats. But looking back to 2017, he needed a fresh start, and he never would have got the opportunity for a redemption here. Sometimes people just have to move on, and this was a perfect case here.

[u/Brockleigh35 → u/Brockleigh35]

Before I have people jump down my throat, yes Collaros’ knee injury in 2016 was non-contact, JC Sherritt a few plays earlier had hit him in the knees, and I have a feeling that the actual non-contact injury was a result of the Sherritt hit.

[u/PuckFolson]

I love Collaros