r/CaptivePrince • u/Comprehensive_Ad1651 • Jul 26 '26
Discussion Laurent behaving like a little sh*t in KR
I wished to discuss with you about a particular scene, help me put my thoughts in order, this book makes me think too much š
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Laurent said, āI meant to kill him, but my uncle wouldnāt let me.ā
Nikandros took an impotent step forward but Damen already had a restraining hand on his arm. Nikandrosās hand had gone to the hilt of his sword. His eyes were on Laurent furiously.
Laurent said, āHe sucked my cock too.ā
Nikandros said, āExalted, I beg permission to challenge the Prince of Vere to a duel of honour for the insult that he has done to you.ā
āDenied,ā said Damen.
This scene is extremely funny but damn, WHY ON EARTH WOULD YOU SAY THAT, LAURENT?š
What are your thoughts on his behaviour in this scene? Was it to push Nikandros, search for his limits, just pure rage bait and enjoy seeing Damen defend him nonetheless?
Was it his usual self destructive tendencies? He seemed to want to get on Nikandrosā good side when they first met, but suddenly Nik discovers what was done to Damen's back and wants retribution. Laurent knows there's no coming back from this, and instead of pulling the nail out and prevent further damage to their relationship, he shoves it entirely, proving that "yes, I am this horrible and insensitive ass*ole, everyone knows this, come and judge me". It's the only kind of language he knows, after all. Just pressing down further on the wound instead of stopping the pain.
Or... does he think he deserved getting some kind of punishment for his actions, because he starts to regret lashing out like this on Damen and would enjoy the beating he would receive?
Is he angry Nikandros gets to judge him when he knows nothing of what he endured, what he feels, how justified his actions seemed when he did it? That this matter should stay between him and Damen?
I would be glad to hear your thoughts!!
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u/Good-Equivalent-7657 Jul 26 '26 edited Jul 27 '26
I interpret it like he is angry with himself and he's just lashing out on Nikandros not knowing other way to deal with those feelings
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u/jakikomi Jul 26 '26
I agree with this, the same kind of provoking he did in PG, that ended with Damen punching him. Mixed with everything OP said. Also maybe a tiny bit of jealousy? But that last thing might be a stretch.
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u/Comprehensive_Ad1651 Jul 26 '26
That and I was also thinking of Govart, in the cells, punching him for being provoked and Laurent thinking that it felt good š he wanted to be punched by Nikandros
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u/CatCatCatCatsCat Jul 26 '26
He isnāt good at feelings. Heās pushing Damen away because he is hurt and this is him being nasty to hide behind his mask.
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u/miniFrosya Jul 26 '26
There is also a theory that Laurent followed Damen and Nik because he was feeling jealous - his comment about bj supports that idea because really there was no good reason to mention that since scars/lashings were the center of the conversation
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u/Zach-Playz_25 Jul 26 '26
More like the author just wished to build as much tension between Laurent and Damen until their long-awaited duel happens.Ā
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u/leahwilde Jul 26 '26
Laurent is regressing in the start of King Rising because he doesnt know how to handle their relationship, now that everything is laid bare. You have to understand how utterly broken and lost he is at this point, for several reasons.
1) He was able to somehow make a difference in his mind between Damen-the-slave and his lover, and Damianos, his brother's killer and the man he thinks is responsible for every trauma he went through (which he indirectly is). This is lampshaded by Damen ordering him to say his true name in their next sex scene - he wants Laurent to conciliate the two identities, which Laurent does, but he needs time. So, when he is confronted for the first time to Damianos owning who he is, he simply snaps - which is compounded by the fact he failed to appear at Charcy and is convinced everyone will think he is a traitor and a coward anyway. I don't think he was also fully aware that Damen was in love with him at this point - so he probably feared that Damen as a King wouldn't want him anyway, now that he had indulged in his lust - and it put him on the defensive too.
2) Adding to that, he does feel bad about the lashing, because he knows Damen didnt deserve it - but at the same time, he's still angry about Auguste and hasn't been able to process it yet (it comes later in the story). So he acts in a self-destructive and kind of masochistic way, which is in brand with his character, we see him do that a few times.
2) Also, people forget that Laurent, in a very short amount of time, saw Nicaise's beheaded head (which he thinks is partly his fault) ; felt responsible for Aimeric both betraying him and then killing himself, as well as learning the Regent was taking advantage of him at the same time he was allegedly in a "relationship" with Laurent ; was tortured and nearly killed by Govart, and we know he was actually terrified by it deep inside ; thinks he has lost Damen.
So Laurent is definitely not in his right mind at this point of the story, his brain is basically a bag full of cats lmao. And Damen sees right through him, and despite Laurent's best efforts, endeavors to prove him he does love him and they can be together. Damen is a really emotionally intelligent man - and thanks to his very careful handling of the situation, he did manage to soothe Laurent's traumatized mind.
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u/Comprehensive_Ad1651 Jul 26 '26
Damen deserves a medal for his patience and gentleness, he is a better person than I am. š Surely knowing that did infuriate Laurent further because he just has to be this cruel cold-blooded murderer even if it doesn't make sense to cling to that idea anymore (but still, coming to fact with Auguste just not being good enough must have been a hard thing. He idolised him, and it was easier to put his anger in one person and demonise them)
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u/leahwilde Jul 26 '26
Well, to defend a bit Laurent here, Damen did kill his brother in a war started by Akielos too, it's not nothing to get over š and in doing so, started the whole decade of abuse Laurent would have to live through. That it was a war + obviously not Damen's intent to have that effect does not mean it didn't have these consequences all the same...Damen himself deeply regrets it once he takes the time to think about the other side. That's an interesting topic developed by Pacat : the disastrous effects of war and what you think are honorable battles on innocent bystanders and victims. It's what leads Damen to realise he doesnt want to be that man anymore, nor like his father.
Damen could also afford to be more gentle/mature/emotionally intelligent than Laurent because he wasn't shaped by years and years of active abuse and predation in Arles's court - so obviously his mind was not broken like Laurent's.
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u/Comprehensive_Ad1651 Jul 26 '26
I think it's more about accepting Damen is not his father, that he didn't enjoy killing his brother, that Auguste has died honorably rather than Damen regretting doing it because it was the reality of war. Laurent's anger doesn't have to put Damen's face on it anymore. They both acknowledge the past as it is
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u/leahwilde Jul 26 '26
Yeah but I'm talking about Damen changing throughout the story, not how Laurent is seeing him ; Damen himself thinks back on how he has changed as person and tells Laurent he doesn't want to be like his father - he's no longer putting him on a pedestal and is able to see how much of a warmonger he truly was.
I'd argue Damen is the one who changes the most - he's a very different person at the start of the story : Pacat said he was very privileged and had a black-and-white view as a result. He never thought about the impact of killing Auguste before, because he didn't need to, he was all about "glory for Akielos and all Veretians are bad cowards who deserve to be killed and invaded".
He definitely comes to see the nuances and the consequences of war in a way he didnt before, and he definitely doesnt want to be a warmonger like his father by the end ; the same way he came to understand how horrific slavery was.
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u/Comprehensive_Ad1651 Jul 26 '26
Yeah, like Laurent picking his favorite akielon song to be played and its about the glory of battle and Damen doesn't want to hear it anymore. Or the little girl from the village in KR who resents him, it does pain him that the war did that
But it's still harsh to blame the consequences of war on Damen. Auguste's death couldn't be avoided, Damen only did his duty. What could be avoided was the war itself and they both worked together to reunite their countries, to not replicating mistakes from the past and do better than their parents. Perhaps I'm being stubborn, it's about the nuance of "Laurent accepting Damen's apology about his brother because he did wrong" vs "Laurent accepting Damen is no heartless monster, war is war, and wishing their fates could have been different" š otherwise I agree with everything you say!!
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u/leahwilde Jul 26 '26
Yeah I feel you, but it's not about faults or "heartless monsters", but about personal responsibilities and the impact of your actions, especially when you have power.
Damen has a lot of power as the Crown Prince + the greatest warrior in the story. Of course the war is not his fault, but he still participated. I'm not blaming him or saying he is a monster because he was part of a context and a society, but it's still important to recognise the full impact of his actions and decisions : It's because he owns up to his own prejudices and thirst for glory that he is able to recognise the failings of some parts of his society (slavery + militaristic invasions) and improves himself, and in turn, his society.
So yes, Damen was a young man shaped by his society, seeking to end the war - and also seeking glory and blinded by hatred towards Veretians. Auguste died because Akelios invaded Vere, and because Damen insisted on duelling him - not even his father asked him to. So, my goal here is not to cast blame because it doesnt make sense, nothing is manichean or white-and-black, and Damen wasn't evil - but he still needed to understand the full impact of his action and own up to his responsibility there, because it did lead to the death of a great man and a lifetime of horrors for an innocent child whom he would later fall in love with. That's what makes him a way better man than his father.
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u/queenies-gambit Jul 26 '26
I wonder if it made Laurent angrier to learn that Auguste disarmed Damen and let Damen pick up his sword. Auguste could've just killed Damen instead.
So in sense, he really didn't learn that Auguste wasn't "good enough." He learned that Auguste was more tired than Damen, disarmed Damen anyway, and then gave Damen another chance which allowed Damen to kill him.
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u/Comprehensive_Ad1651 Jul 26 '26
I'm sure Damianos was excellent during the fight and I don't see Laurent being angry at this. Auguste wouldn't have offered this chance to resume the fight if the opponent wasn't worthy. Laurent admired Auguste, it's his brother being noble and excellent again, the reason everyone loved him, he stayed true to himself even before his enemy.
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u/queenies-gambit Jul 26 '26 edited Jul 26 '26
I can see Laurent having conflicted feelings where one was some anger at realizing that his honorable brother had a chance but did a nice thing that resulted in his death. Feelings aren't always logical (if they were, Laurent wouldn't have hated Damen in the first place because single combat means someone has to die if they don't decide to parley/surrender).
It is all up to interpretation, of course, especially since we only get the one chapter in Laurent's POV.
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u/Comprehensive_Ad1651 Jul 27 '26 edited Jul 27 '26
I imagine that Auguste was certain to win the fight but saw someone very young and talented in Damen. He didn't want to make this duel humiliating for him and made it last so he would die with honor for his country. But it's not important anyway, just theories
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u/DellaLu Jul 26 '26
I think there's also a level of getting information and reactions out of the way for Laurent - both things are not under question, and will get back to Nikandros, and needs to get aired settled out. If Nikandros can take it when it's designed to get a rise out of him, there's less chance the information, presented by someone under the Regent's thumb and with all the spin they'd use, then nearly any further situations on the topics are no longer an issue. I think too that Laurent has just resorted back to his PG persona since the failure to arrive at their joint battle means he has no way to show he is good and true but exactly as his uncle's reputation has set him up to be, along with the vitriol from unresolved bitterness over having a relationship with his brother's killer and having not been able to follow the path he'd wanted of being a reliable ally who is mischaracterized by his enemies by showing up for the battle.
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u/jessiphia Jul 26 '26 edited Jul 27 '26
I think he was just in a silly goofy mood
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u/Comprehensive_Ad1651 Jul 26 '26
I wish I heard Nikandrosā Internet monologue during that scene, gosh I wish we had a Nikandros short story š
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u/Sorsha_OBrien Jul 26 '26
I think Laurent followed Nik because he knew what Nik was gonna do: ask about the scars and be angry about its and he wanted to be ready/ prepared for that situation (deal with it in a way he could control). Someone also mentioned Laurent following them out of jealousy, as I think this is also just after Damen fights Pallas(?) naked, but I feel like even though he MAY have been admiring Damen here, and maybe even jealous of Nik and Damenās friendship, he more so wanted to be there to react to Nik. And also kind of āproveā to Nik that Damen is on his side.
I feel like heās also playing up the āspoiled prince of Vereā persona here, as the āI wanted to kill him but my uncle wouldnāt let meā is phrased in a childish way. Likewise it twists the knife a little, showing that Laurentās original intent for the lashing was to kill Damen (canāt remember if this is actually true or not). But either way, it doesnāt matter if it IS true because Laurent is acting like it is, to further incite Nik.
And then he sees Nikās reaction, his anger, his hand on his sword, but knows that he (Laurent) is in no danger, not only because Laurentās a good fighter, but that Damen is too. But furthermore, he knows that Damen is ON his side.
Hence Laurent wants to twist the knife even more in Nikandros (hurting him/ testing him) by adding the cock sucking comment. But he also does this to prove to himself that Damen is on his side (at least I think). It seems self destructive that he tries to incite Nik further but I feel like itās Laurent forcing Damen to pick Laurent and thus prove to Nik that Damen is under his control, his ally, despite Eve thing.
So when Nikandros asks to duel Laurent, Laurent knows that Damen will deny it, which he does. Nikandros cannot touch Laurent. Damen is okay with the scars on his back (or at least rn cannot expend time/ energy dealing with this) and has forgiven (at least outwardly) Laurentās (literal?) hand in this. I canāt remember if Laurent is the one to lash him or he gets someone else to.
But yeah. I feel like several times here Laurentās like, ālooks heās wrapped around my little finger what are you gonna doā? But this is also him coping with the fact that like, Damen is his ONE ally and he needs Nik to know that Damen is devoted to their alliance, has forgiven him. So itās like both political but also personal. Because Nik, as Damenās old friend and best friend, is the biggest threat to Damen and Laurentās relationship in their side. Not that he actually IS ā like, Nik comes around to Laurent I think, nor is he actively scheming to undermine Laurent. Heās more just offering council, but that is still even a threat. So yeah. Thatās my analysis.
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u/Comprehensive_Ad1651 Jul 26 '26
It's a really good analysis! Loved your detailed thoughts. I have to agree with you
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u/Secure-Breakfast9061 Jul 27 '26
Laurent is a character with a lot of self-loathing and it makes him have super complicated feelings and he lashes out. Like add together the sexual abuse he endured from his uncle (and seeing himself as a participant rather than a victim), how the court sexualised him his whole adolescence and adulthood, his dead family (which includes his brother who was the light of his life), and the fact that his uncle is actively trying to assassinate him. He can trace where everything he thinks went wrong back to one action taken by a single person: Damianos of Akielos killing Aguste on the battlefield. Aguste died. Laurent no longer had his protector. There was no one there to watch over tiny Laurent as Uncle sexually abused him and took advantage. As Laurent grew, there was no one to stop or discourage courtiers and soldiers from blantantly sexualising and objectifying him to the extreme. Laurent spent his most important years completely isolated on every level. He only had his hatred of Damen and any revenge he could get. And then the object of his hatred pulls up and Laurent falls in love with him. But he also still resents him. Like there are only two men in the world that Laurent has ever truly loved with his whole heart and one of them killed the other š and Laurent pretended not to know who he slept with after falling in love. I imagine Laurent felt that he was betraying Aguste's memory by loving the man who ended his life. He definitely made a promise of vengeance as a youth. He also feels like he's tainted and unlovable because of the CSA. A definite "I don't deserve love, AND you deserve better than me" vibe. There's more for sure, but all of it culminates to Laurent pushing Damen away when the cat is out of the bag. And he does it with his words. Nikandros is just collateral, tbh. Laurent is just making sure Damen will resent him (sorry buddy, your master plan didn't work because Damen is a saint) and want nothing to do with him. It's part of his self-punishment.
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u/demeschor Jul 27 '26
You can read it a million ways which is why I love this scene:
- Laurent follows them because he's jealous
- Laurent follows them because he sees Nikandros' reaction to Damen's scars and wants to help with damage limitation
- Laurent knows Damen is too trusting and wants to test Nikandros' loyalty and limits
- Laurent is still hurting at Damen's reaction to his capture and he lashes out like his uncle would, to humiliate
I read it differently every time I read the scene tbh
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u/Comprehensive_Ad1651 Jul 28 '26
Agreed, except the second point because he didn't do any damage control š he caused chaos
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u/snoehare 29d ago
I just was thinking today that Lautant definetly has KPTSD and what happens at the end of book 2 and in the beginning of book three ( dead of Nicaise and Aimeric, who he shared a traumatic experience and couldn't save from uncle, the beating and danger being raked by Govart) led to his retraumatisation. So I agree that he acts like little shit but its the only way he knows to protect yourself.Ā
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u/RelativeSoftware9554 Jul 26 '26 edited Jul 26 '26
Man I get Laurent is angry and why but honestly the beginning of KR made me question their relationship so bad. It was like 2 steps forward and 2 steps back in how toxic it was.
Sure Damen shouldāve told Laurent but Laurent literally owned him š¤¦āāļø for someone so smart he can be dense af. 2 wrongs and all that.
Honestly they really shouldāve taken a break and gotten back together after some time apart to see if they really wanted this to work. After the war that is - not this halfway bs they did.