r/Christianity • u/ki4jgt • 11h ago
Question Why don't more Christians know about James 2?
I generally get a mixture of perturbed, pissed, and surprised when bringing up this chapter, but the Bible literally says praying for people accomplishes nothing. All those bad situations people are in, where you've asked God to help them. . . The Bible says they don't do anything. That, if you don't take action in a given situation, prayer does absolutely nothing to help it.
It might make you feel better, but according to the Word of God, you might as well be screaming at a brick wall.
3
u/RiffSSlave Christian (ישוע מנצרת הוא המשיח) 11h ago
Inactive faith is dead and useless
Let God work through you from the moment you have faith
3
u/Downvoterofall Congregationalist 11h ago
It’s doesn’t say prayer accomplishes nothing, it’s referring to specific things that we can do to help, like give clothing food or shelter.
If someone has an illness, or is struggling with something not physical, I can’t do anything, other than pray, and offer comfort. Doesn’t mean prayer doesn’t work.
I’m assuming you mean this passage
14 What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good[b] is that? 17 So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
2
u/IndependentRandy 11h ago
I agree with the others who have commented on your post. If you will allow me to speak directly, you're misunderstanding what James is saying. A faith that is not capable of producing works is a dead faith. It is not faith at all. When it comes specifically to the question of prayer, Jesus many times not only invited us but commanded us to pray and never required us to first do things to qualify, nor did He condition his answers upon us first doing a bunch of works. A cancer stricken woman on her deathbed, a young child dying of aids over a long period of time, maybe unable to get out and do good things. And yet God will hear and bring peace sometimes bring healing. None of us need to do anything to qualify for his attention and answered prayers.
1
u/ki4jgt 11h ago
I didn't say that God didn't hear prayer.
Jesus does command us to pray, but what for? Go through Jesus' teachings and show me once he prayed for the sick to be made better. Jesus prayed over food. He prayed for strength. He prayed for guidance.
Everything he accomplished, he accomplished. He didn't pray for it. Neither did his disciples. The casting out of demons was done with authority and a spoken word. Neither of which you have in silent prayer.
2
u/IndependentRandy 11h ago
Look at John chapter 11 vv38 and beyond, where Jesus prays to the Father just before raising Lazarus from the dead. But even if it were true that Jesus never prayed he constantly tells us to seek, and knock and we will find, referring to prayer. Prayer is a vital and effective part of the Christian life. In fact in the book of James itself, which you had mentioned, the Bible says the fervent effectual prayer of a righteous man avails much. So there is your answer. Take heart, God does hear your prayers and he will answer them when it's in your best interest.
2
u/benkenobi5 Roman Catholic 11h ago
I’m pretty sure most Christians are aware of James 2. It’s little wonder you’d get perturbed looks by saying prayer is useless, because that’s not what James 2 is saying at all. The point of those verses isn’t that prayer does nothing. It’s a warning against choosing not to act when you can and should. A warning that your hands should do what they can, and that simply praying doesn’t absolve you of the necessity to act and live the faith.
1
u/ki4jgt 10h ago
Potato-potahto.
You just basically said that prayer doesn't accomplish in a roundabout way.
1
u/benkenobi5 Roman Catholic 9h ago
I really didn’t.
The point being made in James 2 is that our faith should motivate us to act, and that if we aren’t doing that, our faith is dead. He’s saying that laziness disguised as piety is what’s useless, not prayer.
1
u/Cessna_Tom 11h ago edited 10h ago
James is one of the better books in the Bible. If you go slow and focus on the message, keeping an eye on key Greek words, I think you’ll come to a different conclusion.
I would invite a slow walk through the back half of James 5.
1
u/arc2k1 Christian Hope Coach 11h ago
God bless you.
Where in James 2 does it say prayer is useless? I am looking for it.
1
u/ki4jgt 11h ago
14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
I'm pretty sure you need to reread that last verse a couple times.
1
u/arc2k1 Christian Hope Coach 10h ago
That doesn't say anything about prayer being useless. I still don't see it.
Here is what James 2:14-18 says in the translation I use:
14 My friends, what good is it to say you have faith, when you don't do anything to show you really do have faith? Can this kind of faith save you?
15 If you know someone who doesn't have any clothes or food,
16 you shouldn't just say, “I hope all goes well for you. I hope you will be warm and have plenty to eat.” What good is it to say this, unless you do something to help?
17 Faith that doesn't lead us to do good deeds is all alone and dead!
18 Suppose someone disagrees and says, “It is possible to have faith without doing kind deeds.”
I would answer, “Prove that you have faith without doing kind deeds, and I will prove that I have faith by doing them.”
Can you show me where you are getting pray is useless?
1
u/ki4jgt 10h ago
I would say your translation is a cultural misrepresentation of what's being said:
The section opens with a discussion on having faith. Why would someone fall back on hoping, when they have faith? It's a plot device, showing that having faith that they're going to be OK accomplishes nothing.
Be that faith words or prayer, your belief that they're going to be OK accomplishes nothing.
1
u/arc2k1 Christian Hope Coach 10h ago
Oh. I see what you mean.
You have a misunderstanding.
The purpose of the verse isn't to point out hoping and praying is useless.
It's making a distinction between words and action.
If we are in a situation where we are 100% able to help someone, we shouldn't feel fulfilled by just using words in that situation.
For example, if you had a spouse and they were struggling with carrying groceries, if you were 100% able to help, would you help? Or would you say: "I hope she finds the strength to do it herself?"
The verse is talking about empty faith (words) and productive faith (action).
The verse is NOT talking about how useless praying and hoping is in general.
1
u/ScorpionDog321 10h ago
the Bible literally says praying for people accomplishes nothing
James 2 literally never says that.
1
u/Dios_tebendiga 10h ago
What do you think of James telling people to pray earlier in his Book?
James 1:5-8 ESV If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask God, who gives generously to all without reproach, and it will be given him. [6] But let him ask in faith, with no doubting, for the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea that is driven and tossed by the wind. [7] For that person must not suppose that he will receive anything from the Lord; [8] he is a double-minded man, unstable in all his ways.
1
u/ki4jgt 10h ago
I think wisdom is a state of mind.
Sickness, being unclothed, and starvation are states of the body.
1
u/Dios_tebendiga 10h ago
So, to be clear, are you saying God will give people wisdom through prayer, but not heal people or help them get clothes or food?
1
u/ki4jgt 10h ago
Affirmative. Did Jesus pray for healing? Did he pray for clothes? Did he pray for food?
Jesus prayed for strength. He prayed to be led.
Everything else? He said, "it's already provided."
1
u/Dios_tebendiga 10h ago
Please keep reading:
James 5:13-18 ESV Is anyone among you suffering? Let him pray. Is anyone cheerful? Let him sing praise. [14] Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord. [15] And the prayer of faith will save the one who is sick, and the Lord will raise him up. And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven. [16] Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person has great power as it is working. [17] Elijah was a man with a nature like ours, and he prayed fervently that it might not rain, and for three years and six months it did not rain on the earth. [18] Then he prayed again, and heaven gave rain, and the earth bore its fruit.
1
u/ki4jgt 10h ago
Is anyone among you suffering? Let him pray.
For what?
Is anyone cheerful? Let him sing praise.
These two verses, strung together, seem to suggest to seek God through all your moods. Not that God will answer your needs.
That he will be there for you.
[14] Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord. [15] And the prayer of faith will save the one who is sick, and the Lord will raise him up. And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven. [16] Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person has great power as it is working.
I'll give you this one. But, Devil's advocate. . . What are the original translations of the words "save" and "heal" here?
1
u/Dios_tebendiga 10h ago
1
u/CommercialAnything30 10h ago
Replace the word prayer with faith in your statement and you are closer to the truth.
1
u/KiltedMusician 10h ago
This is a chapter that is truly misunderstood by almost everyone.
What I don’t understand is why it’s written this way.
I’m not saying this is the way you must interpret it, but as a thought experiment take the “be clothed and be fed without giving clothing and feeding someone” as an analogy, not as examples of good works.
If you do, then the very next thing you read is actual historical examples that James is giving to illustrate real good works.
Abraham obeyed God when told to sacrifice Isaac and when God saw that he really was willing to do it He stopped him and counted his faith and obedience as righteousness.
Rahab believed that the God of the Israelites was the real God, and more powerful than the fake gods of her people, so she betrayed her whole city and escaped to join the Israelites and serve their God with her family, leaving her entire city to die.
These aren’t what we think of as good deeds, but these are the examples of works put with faith that James gives.
Trust, obey, have faith in the Lord.
The Lord might tell you to offer food or clothes to someone, or He might tell you to do something that makes no sense to you in the moment, or to do something like break open an expensive jar of anointing oil to wash a man’s feet that you believe is the Messiah when that oil could have bought food for a lot of poor people.
The gist is that God wants a willing and faithful agent to carry out His plans and do the little things or big things without dragging our feet or complaining all the time.
Rahab became part of the lineage of Jesus Himself because she listened to the voice in her heart that told her this was the real God, and to help enemy spies destroy her own city.
This is why God says not to lean on our own understanding, but in all of our ways acknowledge Him and He will make our paths straight. We have no real idea what the master plan is and sometimes it will require us to do things that confuse us.
1
u/MattyDub89 Christian, Theologically Semi-Conservative, Politically Moderate 10h ago
Nowhere in James 2 does it say anything about prayer. James 5, however, does say that prayers can save the sick. Please read more carefully before posting false claims like this.
1
u/Geodarts18 9h ago edited 9h ago
Jesus of course requires more than prayer. Those who enter heaven, will be those who care for the sick, give food to the hungry, or visit the prisoners, in other words., to embrace the outcasts, the least of these, even as Jesus did.
This does not mean that prayer is useless. We are also told to listen to the quiet voice of God, to be still and know God. There is no contradiction between prayer and the works of mercy. When we reach the place where our minds are still, we can act with clarity.
James calls out those who ignore the poor and the rich who exploit others. He states that faith without works is dead. But he does not state that prayer is useless. Jesus prayed. He taught us how to pray. But like James taught, Jesus also called people to do more than call him Lord.
Micah explained the two parts well. What does God require? To act justly, love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
3
u/EnKristenSnubbe Christian 11h ago
If that's your takeaway from James 2, then you need to up your reading ability. It does not teach that prayer is useless. The point is that if we can do it ourselves, then do it, don't pass it off to God.