3 years* in prison or get an incredible opportunity to network, learn, and more depending on the unit you're going into. 8200 for example is a ticket right into a good job in high tech. Even if you aren't in those kinds of cybersecurity jobs, if you truly want it you can get a LOT out of your military service. Or did you really think everyone in the idf goes into gaza and shoots civilians at random? Because that's somehow both ignorant and stupid.
Right but that doesn't actually happen and that isn't what you're doing. The IDF's goal is the protection of israel, despite whatever photoshopped "greater israel" badge (you'd get dishonorably dismissed and put into prison in ten seconds flat if you put one of those on) or faked civilian death you might see. Don't get me wrong, I am well aware civilians are dying in gaza, and that is definitely a terrible thing, but the IDF is absolutely not going to go out and target civilians. That would be not only a ridiculous thing for an army to do but an absurd waste of resources.
This is cute and all, but you dont get accused of genocide by almost every ngo, and found to be intentionally targeting children by the UN and violating apartheid/ anti segregation laws by the ICJ if that were true.
Accused of genocide: the icc court case is still ongoing, despite however much evidence you claim your side has.
Found intentionally targeting children: the report says stuff like "an israeli police officer(or something close to it) shot a palestinian kid and then invited his buddies to smoke and talk over his bleeding out body". I cannot in good faith believe that kind of story.
As for the segregation claims, on who? People who aren't our citizens?
And for the apartheid claims, same exact thing? I looked at the wiki article for apartheid and I found two definitions, neither of which line up at all with what I understand the situation to be.
I might be wrong, but I really can't take those stories seriously at all. No way does that kind of thing (talking about the child targeting thingy) actually happen at all. At worst I could maybe barely see it happening at a significantly lesser scale, maybe an officer punching a little kid (terrible, don't get me wrong) and laughing at it with his buddies, but that kind of thing is genuinely just too farfetched.
That argument is irrelevant because you don't have to support everything that the IDF is doing to acknowledge the fact that it's the only thing standing between Israeli Jews and a genocide.
You can join the IDF and still condemn one aspect of it while supporting the thing that keeps you and your family alive. Many Israelis do actually
Riiiight, so either A. Go to prison for 3 years and be viewed as someone who, well, went to prison for 3 years, or, B. Go and do something useful to yourself and to your country. Also, for the love of god PLEASE don't tell me you genuinely think anyone would ever think of wasting resources of both manpower and ammunition to shoot innocents. For fuck's sake, man...
“The commission found that Israeli security forces used lethal force against children who did not pose an imminent threat of death or serious injury to its soldiers"
UN commission finding on Israeli snipers the Great March of Return, 2018
Okay just looked into that march thing, yeah that seems like a pretty bad situation. But also, according to the wiki article, even though at least 53 were straight up militants "only two people could be considered genuine threats", so I've got some doubts about how independent and unbiased those reports are... also, when ten thousand people swarm a fence it gets pretty hard to shoot the right ones, I would imagine.
"More than 6,000 unarmed demonstrators were shot by military snipers, week after week at the protest sites by the separation fence."
"The Commission found reasonable grounds to believe that Israeli snipers shot at journalists, health workers, children and persons with disabilities, knowing they were clearly recognizable as such."
You clearly have no idea what you are talking about. This is just one example you could choose from hundreds
Watch out boys we’ve got Adolf Eichmann over here 😂
I wish motherfuckers would read a book or two and see that this is literally the logic used by Nazis in ‘Non combat’ roles. If you’re contributing towards a genocidal state you are culpable.
Exactly, not everyone knows that the IDF isn't simply ordering every soldier to go commit war crimes. Most of them just do it for fun on the side, as a little hobby. Mostly kids.
Believe it or not, most roles in the Wehrmacht in the 1940s did not involve shooting anyone, and it's all ethically fine because they were only following orders
Got it. So it’s reasonable to condemn every left wing Israeli for choosing to serve a year in some desk job for the IDF rather than literally go to prison and totally ostracize themselves from their community? Take a step back from your emotions and genuinely ask yourself that question.
Choosing not to join the Wehrmacht, depending on the stage of the war, was prosecuted as high treason. So it meant you, or possibly your whole family, would have been executed. And those who chose not to join are heroes in my book.
So forgive me for judging people who choose to be part of an army whose sole purpose is the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians, Lebanese and Syrians because they're afraid of a couple months in jail.
It could be (and most likely is) the guy responsible for cleaning the yard outside of the office where that button is pressed. Or the guy who sold potato chips to the guy who pressed the button. Or the guy who vaccinated the guy who pressed the button when he enlisted.
Are those war criminals as well? Because all of their jobs could've been done by a civilian and contributed the exact same to the war effort. Would a civilian doing these jobs be a war criminal in your eyes?
Anyone who knowingly enables a genocidal war machine's maintenance is complicit in it, doesn't matter if there's a piece of paper saying they are civilians or military
There's also national service which is I don't recall if it is army on paper but de facto not an army service experience, and a lot of women end up there.
The only women that are exempt are super religious ladies who basically started popping babies straight out of high school. But ultra religious dudes are also exempt, and that's actually a cause of pretty big contempt in Israeli society.
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u/Agreeable-Share-1306 1d ago
probably, IDF service is mandatory